Is Srila Prabhupada becoming a mytical character

[sanatan]

 

If you knew how many Prabhupada disciples your age, are barely surviving, having been forced out or marginalized, you would realize what a good decision you've made.

 

That's what I've heard. In what time period did most of this this happen?

 

I've known quite a few SP disciples, and yes, a good number of them are middle-aged and barely getting by, but this often appears to be the result of adverse personal decisions, rather than alienation from ISKCON.

 

I spent a lot of time around the temple in my home city from the mid '80s thru the early 90's, but as essentially an outsider/fringie, never was privy to the inner grapevine. It always seemed to me that the SP disciples and disciples of later gurus co-existed well here.

 

Your observation is well taken...no major regrets at this point.

[Guruvani]

 

 

I've known quite a few SP disciples, and yes, a good number of them are middle-aged and barely getting by, but this often appears to be the result of adverse personal decisions, rather than alienation from ISKCON.

 

True, I came out of the Navy with four years of college that had to be used in 8 years.

I gave those eight years to the Hare Krishna movement and now I live like a pauper taking whatever chump job comes along.

 

Adverse personal decision?

I guess you could say that.

[sanatan]

 

True, I came out of the Navy with four years of college that had to be used in 8 years.

I gave those eight years to the Hare Krishna movement and now I live like a pauper taking whatever chump job comes along.

 

Adverse personal decision?

I guess you could say that.

 

I think you posted awhile back that you got booted by your temple prez for reading a book by Sridhar Maharaja...was that the end of your eight-year hitch in the movement?

[suchandra]

 

.......and now I live like a pauper taking whatever chump job comes along...........

Guess Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakur would rather reply:

 

“What bliss!“

When I stayed in Puri I made a lot of advancement in devotional service. I became more detached in my worldly life and there was no longer any misunderstanding that worldly progress might produce anything of lasting value. Generally I would go to the temple for darsan, nama kirtan, sravan, and sadhu sanga everyday in the evening. Any day that I did not eat adahar dahl [pigeon pea soup] I would not feel satisfied. As soon as I entered the temple someone would give me dahl.

On one side in the temple was the Mukti Mandap and there the brahmanas would sit and teach. All of them were Mayavadis. When I went near them my mind felt disturbed, therefore, I would sit near the Goddess Laksmi Mandir or the Sri Mahaprabhu Pada-padma. When we sat there many pandits from the Mukti Mandap would come and sit with us. I named this place Bhaktiprajnan. Our learned meetings at this place gradually developed nicely.

Part 12 1870-80

[cbrahma]

 

That's what I've heard. In what time period did most of this this happen?

 

I've known quite a few SP disciples, and yes, a good number of them are middle-aged and barely getting by, but this often appears to be the result of adverse personal decisions, rather than alienation from ISKCON.

 

I spent a lot of time around the temple in my home city from the mid '80s thru the early 90's, but as essentially an outsider/fringie, never was privy to the inner grapevine. It always seemed to me that the SP disciples and disciples of later gurus co-existed well here.

 

Your observation is well taken...no major regrets at this point.

The personal decisions that you speak of would be no more than needing to have food and shelter provided by the temple community in exchange for service.

What has happened is the Prabhupada disciples who took control have pushed out any other P disciples who are not 'party line' because they are a threat to the status quo. I have many examples of this.

It won't just apply to P disciples. There is no retirement program. No health insurance even after all this time.

The 'chew-em-up-and-spit-em-out' mentality is there.

I've seen it over and over again.

[Guruvani]

 

..was that the end of your eight-year hitch in the movement?

No, I did 6 years ISKCON and 2 years at the San Jose Mandira with the fellows involved with Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

 

Then, I moved out of the temple and have never lived in a temple since then.

 

I lived several years in Badger in that devotee community and have since lived in Florida near the devotee community here, though I certainly haven't taken advantage of that for the last few years.

 

I have always stayed near and around devotees since leaving the movement.

 

But, I don't qualify as a Hare Krishna anymore.

I am just a pious karmi. ( I hope)

[skp]

 

Who is going to believe such a story? With no money in his pockets, and no pockets even, the exalted Prabhupada hops a ride on a steamer and lands in New York. He walks around the Big Apple's parks singing a song like the Pied Piper, and soon the whole western rat race is singing that song.

 

Could such a fairy-tale myth ever be credible?

 

How fortunate we are this wonderful man left his peaceful heaven to cross the universe to save our souls.

 

Amen

 

Very well said gHari Prabhu! What Srila Prabhupada has done will seem to be like so-called myth to future generations, as Krishna's lilas are so-called myth to people who do not want to develop the faith...

[sanatan]

 

The personal decisions that you speak of would be no more than needing to have food and shelter provided by the temple community in exchange for service....

 

cbrahma, I hear you. My mention of "adverse decisions" certainly wasn't meant in a condescending way towards anyone; I came close to making the same one myself 35+ years ago, and back then it was a decision one could make with reasonable expectations.

 

 

No, I did 6 years ISKCON and 2 years at the San Jose Mandira with the fellows involved with Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

 

Then, I moved out of the temple and have never lived in a temple since then.

 

I lived several years in Badger in that devotee community and have since lived in Florida near the devotee community here, though I certainly haven't taken advantage of that for the last few years.

 

I have always stayed near and around devotees since leaving the movement.

 

But, I don't qualify as a Hare Krishna anymore.

I am just a pious karmi. ( I hope)

 

I've always referred to myself as an "interested karmi". Yes, longtime association has turned me around from a former-Christian agnostic stance to one of firm positive convictions regarding God and the spiritual, so I guess "hopefully-pious karmi" could apply to me as well.

[theist]

I find it refreshing when devotees sincerely talk like this of themselves. And I say devotees because on one side (the one that really counts) you surely all are. Neither claiming themselves accomplished devotees or the most wretched of demons.

 

Yeah we are just mixed (up) devotees, going through some awkward stage in-between illusion which we are in but on our way to reality which is our destination.

 

We're just folks ("friends" of Lord Krsna). We occupy some rings of the unlimited congregation of souls that are right now in the process of being drawn towards the Supreme Person.

 

The future is bright!

[sanatan]

Theist, I really appreciate the way you can analyze psychologically and spiritually, and come up seeing the bright side; also the way ghari shares his realizations in a short, simple, and poetic way....you're both inspiring souls.

[Jahnava Dasi]

 

I saw Prabhupada in Chicago. His shakti was amazing. I am not his formally initiated disciple so I have no reason to mythologize. There is as much downplaying of Prabhupada's position nowadays as there is lengendizing.

I am disgusted by how ISKCON devotees are forever going 'Jaya Prabhupada' and mismanaging the ISKCON that was his legacy. The problem is not the myth-making. The problem is the need to equalize him as an ordinary human being to legitimate the bevy of bogus gurus appointed by the GBC.

I have personally seen a handful of these appointed gurus. I would never surrender to any of them. They are 'celebs'. They bask in institutionally manufactured glamor. They promote their books, they perform like a talent show.

It's really embarassing for somebody who has seen the powerful effects of one pure devotee.

[Jahnava Dasi]

Thank you for distinguishing between "the powerful effects of one pure devotee" and "bogus gurus". Certainly, only one whose hands are untied can free the hands of one whose hands are bound, because the bound cannot rescue the bound.

Srila Prabhupada's hands are still unbound, and my firm conviction is that by submissively reading his books and listening to his recordings anyone can advance. My conviction is based on the fact that even though I am an insignificant devotee still I am being guided every single day by His Divine Grace to take just one more step.

Cheater celebs masquerade as being 100% Krsna conscious. Even worse cheaters admit they aren't 100% KC but they still advertise that they can liberate others from the cycle of birth and death.

I admire you and other sober-minded souls like you who refuse to be cheated.

[theist]

 

Srila Prabhupada's hands are still unbound, and my firm conviction is that by submissively reading his books and listening to his recordings anyone can advance. My conviction is based on the fact that even though I am an insignificant devotee still I am being guided every single day by His Divine Grace to take just one more step.

 

Hare Krsna Jahnava Dasi, Nice to see you here. I remember you as the kind host of the Kumba Mela forums from a few years back. I posted there as Maitreya (not an initiated name).

 

I very much appreciate the perspective you posted above. Srila Prabhupada is the Living Door to the Kingdom and he is still wide open to all who wish to enter.

 

Other doors have popped up with the same promise but when we look to see what is on the other side of them we don't see the effulgence of Godhead radiating out.

 

Possibly the most profound and protective instruction I learned from Srila Prabhupada's books was in one purport in CC he wrote"...acarya is self-effulgent." Those four words were all it took to save me from the 11 zoned out pretenders to the throne that sprang up in the darkness, mushroom like, on Srila Prabhuoada's disappearance.

 

Haribol

[mahak]

Yeah, me too, jahnavi dasi, except back then, I was mahaksadasa.

 

Oh, and Guruvani, no stay worry, brah. Lifeline can get very thin, but by holding on, it will work. We let go, he doesnt. Ive made a life practice of being in exile, and it works for some folks. And the only thing we sacrificed is our youth, which is highly over-rated. I would never trade my backache plagued wisdom for that buff surfer body the babes always hassled me for. And the bucks you coulda made maybe wouldve went up the ol nose, so now, the hard work and the meager paycheck keeps us in line.

 

Like the great hare krsna song by Dylan, Quinn the Eskimo, we got certain benefits, poverty is not a stretch, we got it figgured out. When the rich get a rude awakening, all is equal, except we will have the experiance. Its worth something, my money sure aint. whoda thought that canadian bucks would drown US greenback that is now red white and black and blue. Just remember, there is a citizen from addis ababa who wants your gig, and he doesnt even have to move here to get it.

 

Toilets and tombstones, there is a future in this work.

[gHari]

Wow, Theist was Maitreya. I liked him. Almost as much as Theist.

[theist]

I thought all the regulars here knew that gHari. I was being confused by some with a Prabhupada initiate of that name and so as to not ruin his reputation any further I took another incarnation.

[krsna]

<!-- the top of the post, the background graphic gets applied here, and we truncate the title itself so it fits, in case of long post titles - title will still show the full title though -->Keeping Srila Prabhupada at the center

[theist]

For me, it is not question of myth making. It is a question of trying to comprehend the intense love for Krsna and others that Srila Prabhupada exhibited. That is unparrelled as far as I can see.

 

There are no doubt better sanskrit scholars and others more learned in every other field than Srila Prabhupada but I am waiting to hear of one who even comes close to the selfless effort that Srila Prabhupada laid out in especially those last 12 or 13 years of his life.

 

No need to create a myth because any myth we create will far short of the reality anyway. We can't create a myth that pure of heart because we can't even conceive of what that is.

[davidbrucehughes]

There is no question that Srila Prabhupada is being mythologized; he was already being mythologized by 1969. So many of the 'senior devotees' were willing to misuse 'Prabhupada said' to put words in their spiritual master's mouth. For example, Prabhupada never said "Books are the basis," etc. If you read the actual conversation, a devotee suggested it and he vaguely approved of it. But how many hundreds of times we heard that 'Prabhupada said' it.

 

 

Trivikrama: He has brought you one Chinese script.

 

Hari-śauri: What does it say?

 

Devotee (3): This is Chinese character scroll. It says, “Books are the basis, preaching is the essence, utility is the principle, and purity is the force.” It was translated wholly by myself, and the characters were written by...

 

Prabhupāda: Is that all right?

 

Devotee (5): I can read, but I don’t write. Ah... That’s not purity. It should be... It’s not so exact.

 

Prabhupāda: What did he say in the trans...?

 

Devotee (5): It’s cleanliness rather than purity.

 

Bali-mardana: He has translated purity as “cleanliness,” not quite exact. [770225ed.may]

 

By the time I joined ISKCON in '71 I had read all of Srila Prabhupada's books several times. As a longtime student of semantics it was clear to me that the leaders were using similar words but teaching something completely different. Now that so much of the real history has come out, for example the rejection of the DOM, we know that the so-called leaders had actually usurped Srila Prabhupada's movement and made it into something he never intended it to be: a centralized corporate dictatorship.

 

They planned from the beginning to be free from all oversight and to leave the other devotees without recourse. To take over the temples and destroy their autonomy. To use and exploit the devotees for their own sense gratification.

 

I knew that his mail was censored and tampered with, so I pretended to be important people and sent letters in code. Amazingly enough, Srila Prabhupada replied to these letters, in the same code. Toward the end of his pastimes he established contact with me through his sister and gave some very confidential instructions. Later I found out that he did something similar with others as well.

[cbrahma]

 

There is no question that Srila Prabhupada is being mythologized; he was already being mythologized by 1969. So many of the 'senior devotees' were willing to misuse 'Prabhupada said' to put words in their spiritual master's mouth. For example, Prabhupada never said "Books are the basis," etc.

By the time I joined ISKCON in '71 I had read all of Srila Prabhupada's books several times. As a longtime student of semantics it was clear to me that the leaders were using similar words but teaching something completely different. Now that so much of the real history has come out, for example the rejection of the DOM, we know that the so-called leaders had actually usurped Srila Prabhupada's movement and made it into something he never intended it to be: a centralized corporate dictatorship.

 

Yes one can see this, even with material intelligence. The only way ISKCON can be saved is to dismantle the power structure which is the thoroughly ( and I can't emphasize this enough THOROUGHLY ) corrupt GBC.

These men were not those elected by Prabhupada. That GBC fell down.

The current one is self-appointed ,self-serving and a disturbance to society.

The reality is slightly more subtle than a corporate dictatorship.

At the core it is simply a business, but in the guise of a religion to attract the Hindu so-called congregation also in the guise of a spiritual movement in case anybody actually reads the books and understands them.

 

The myth is that Prabhupada was an ordinary man. If the worst thing that his disciples did was misquote him saying 'Books are the basis' the situation would be a whole lot better than it is.

[HerServant]

 

There is no question that Srila Prabhupada is being mythologized; he was already being mythologized by 1969. So many of the 'senior devotees' were willing to misuse 'Prabhupada said' to put words in their spiritual master's mouth. For example, Prabhupada never said "Books are the basis," etc. If you read the actual conversation, a devotee suggested it and he vaguely approved of it. But how many hundreds of times we heard that 'Prabhupada said' it.

 

 

Trivikrama: He has brought you one Chinese script.

 

Hari-śauri: What does it say?

 

Devotee (3): This is Chinese character scroll. It says, “Books are the basis, preaching is the essence, utility is the principle, and purity is the force.” It was translated wholly by myself, and the characters were written by...

 

Prabhupāda: Is that all right?

 

Devotee (5): I can read, but I don’t write. Ah... That’s not purity. It should be... It’s not so exact.

 

Prabhupāda: What did he say in the trans...?

 

Devotee (5): It’s cleanliness rather than purity.

 

Bali-mardana: He has translated purity as “cleanliness,” not quite exact. [770225ed.may]

 

By the time I joined ISKCON in '71 I had read all of Srila Prabhupada's books several times. As a longtime student of semantics it was clear to me that the leaders were using similar words but teaching something completely different. Now that so much of the real history has come out, for example the rejection of the DOM, we know that the so-called leaders had actually usurped Srila Prabhupada's movement and made it into something he never intended it to be: a centralized corporate dictatorship.

 

They planned from the beginning to be free from all oversight and to leave the other devotees without recourse. To take over the temples and destroy their autonomy. To use and exploit the devotees for their own sense gratification.

 

I knew that his mail was censored and tampered with, so I pretended to be important people and sent letters in code. Amazingly enough, Srila Prabhupada replied to these letters, in the same code. Toward the end of his pastimes he established contact with me through his sister and gave some very confidential instructions. Later I found out that he did something similar with others as well.

 

 

It seems very auspicious that you are posting here. You were mentioned to me by name just days ago by a hermit. He was very concerned about your well being and had hoped you were OK.

 

You can send me a private message via this forum. Please check your private messages when you log in.

[seamusjcarroll]

dear prabhu . this curent situation and questions about prabhupada , are to me mis information , prabhupada is eternally present , his books proove this , we would not be talking without them , we are most fortunate to have such a direct link to chaitanya , devotional love ,not deviation