a question of faith

[mahak]

Theres that word again, that word that is not what is meant in regards to spiritual life, which personalizes such things to the post of Srimati Sraddha.

 

Faith pertains to the material world and this illusion that has bound us. We can get off anytime in this simultaneous reality, multi dimensional trip, like Sri Dhruva Maharaja, who never faced Lord Yama, stepping on Death's head as he boards his vehicle to his eternal post as Lord of the Pole Star, the Vaikuntha planet visible to the mundane eye. But as long as we have faith in the material phantasmagoria, the ship of our own will not land.

 

Let us describe the gifts of the material world. Technology has advanced to such a great degree, that when one sits down to dinner, one can immediately speak with a citizen of Addid Abbaba who wonders about your Capital One payment. Ahhh. Such advancement. And the glorious financial opulences. And the peace on earth and the good will to man promoted by the advancement of science, social reform, the humanities. Here is the chip, you dont even have to put it on your forehead, it will be in your morning cheerios.

 

Some deny control by others. They think waters is a nutcase speaking about the worms, and we get the same treatment when speaking about reptilian nagas who rule this planet of death. Some dont want to think about it while they declare independence and pledge allegiance to flags and border patrols. But the fact is, we are so totally bound, and we cannot artificially rid ourselves of these shakles of Babylon. They say "flu" and we rush for injection. They say terrorism, and we give permission for fascism. They say "Conspiracy theorist" and all the truth is rejected immediately because the speaker has no official sanction.

 

Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu is canvassing for those outside the wall, outside the box of control. We are not speaking artificial renunciation, the classic line of Prabhupada, speaking "The hypocracy of drinking water underwater while bathing on a fast day." We are speaking of education in reality, a separation from the contrivance convenient lies that are these very chains of Babylon and going where the actual self KNOWS the TRUE from fabricated propaganda.

 

I have no faith, I gave it up when I studied Didyamous Thomas, and discovered that Lord Jesus Christ did not reject him because he wanted to see if his hands really bore the marks of assassination. I cannot "believe" in science, it has given me nothing except maybe this internet, oh, and maybe my car, oh, yeah, and the other stuff (Remember the Jerk with Steve Martin, renouncing everything except what he NEEDS).

 

What has modern science done to claim guruship of ones life? Id really like to know, because my car is ten years past dead, the humanity sciences are quite water boarded these daze, and that other dimension is getting more and more visible as the smoke clears a bit.

 

Heck, they dont even know math. They cannot build pyramids with their zeroes, there is no void. The ancestral human species built them with nine ball, a simple abacus can outdo any super-computer based on non-existance, the void, the zero.

 

Cmon, mahak, abaci dont have you-tube. Maybe so, but if I werent so lazily inspired by economic science, another complete lying fraud, maybe Id grab my harmonium and do some songs with those from outside the walls, Siva, Yama, Yami, Bramha, Saraswati, Guha, Jatayu and dem other bleedin hearts and artists walking up and down outside the wall.

 

If I am ddeemed mad, thanks, I guess I made my point. I was going to retire, but might as well keep yakkin for the next few daze before it all comes tumblin down. You see, we forgot the glue for this phantasmagoria, all our plans have gone awry.

 

YS in friendship, mahaksadasa

[sevabhakta]

Somethin is a rumblin, so I guess a tumblin sounds about right.

 

All? Maybe.

 

Krsna Kirtana ki Jaya.

 

Hari Bol

[Inedible]

Everyone has faith. The question is what you put your faith in. To be honest I think it is time for all religion to die. Maybe even pure science as well. Too many people are using religion (including science) as a way of distancing themselves from their own lives. I want to go around kicking away the supports people use to avoid living their lives while they wait for the clock to run out so they can collect their eternal reward.

[mahak]

excellent, inedible, and here you were wondering if you could follow along here.

 

Krsna kinda says that too, give up all these control freak religions, ABANDON them, shake the dirt off your feet as you leave. Didjas ever read how the pandavas left hastinapura on their way to exile? Quite profound, maybe a story is brewing, maybe Ill title it, "How to leave the temple".

 

We shoulod always be wary. We are very slow, barely awake, easy to take advantage of. Srila Prabhupada always had concern for us in regard to being swayed by those who want to control us. The relative propaganda (I cannot call it science, because they do not even know how to count) media machine is there to dominate every aspect of your life, the ultimate fascism. Eisenhower warned of the military-industrial-congressional complex that is the greatest terror to humanity. This is science. And religion. Without the pulpit, science has no sway. This has been known since middle ages. Why lump science in with eisenhowers prophecy? Because fact sways that 85-90% of those who call themselves scientist of engineer are fully funded by the machine. No science is recognized without the sanction of the machine, just ask michael cremo or his contemporaries like graham hancock and others, or their predecessors like tesla or velikovsky.

 

Pure science is what we want, clean and clear, without tinges of temporal propaganda or sentimental fanaticism. And old mahaksadasa folk song goes like this:

 

Although He praised the glories of non-seers who believed

The Thomas touch on Lord Jesus wounds were still quite well received

Dull or brilliant blinding faith never seemed to show much style

So please forgive my non-belief without the benefit of your trial

 

Srimati Sraddha is quite different than faith. The goddess is there. Maybe her servant makes the story. mo latah, hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[davidbrucehughes]

Faith is cheap. Everyone has faith in something, or what is the point of getting out of bed in the morning?

 

Every religion has a complete rationalization how they are the best and every other religion is wrong, or at least less right. It all sounds very reasonable and logical, at least on casual examination.

 

There is no time to prove everything by experiment. And most of the tenets of any religion are beyond empirical proof anyway. So how do we determine what to have faith in?

 

'Facts' can always be manipulated. There are people who swear that Jesus Christ is a fabrication, or that Krsna is just a story made up by some old brahmanas.

 

A much better criterion is epistemology, and the best is ontology. What is the process of receiving knowledge? That's epistemology. And what is the background system that determines the meaning of a particular symbol? That is ontology.

 

The Gaudiya Vaisnava system of epistemology is much better than any other religion in the world, because it is based on a transcendental science of consciousness. The system of parampara (disciplic succesion), the criteria of a self-realized soul given in the scriptures, even the system of padas that creates a kind of checksum for each Sanskrit verse—no other religious culture can match it.

 

But the clincher is the Vaisnava ontology given in scriptures like Srimad-Bhagavatam, and extensively analyzed in Nectar of Devotion. The test of any ontology is whether it can include other ontologies as subsets without breaking down. The Bhagavata ontology passes this test with flying colors. It contains the complete subsets of karma, yoga, jnana, materialism, cosmology, etc.etc. without losing its focus on bhakti as the highest.

 

The proof that this knowledge is the highest is that it contains the entire knowledge of so many other disciplines, arts and sciences, including ontology itself, without losing focus and without having to resort to false logic or other cheating to defeat them. Bhakti simply has more and superior qualities to all of them.

[cbrahma]

 

Faith is cheap. Everyone has faith in something, or what is the point of getting out of bed in the morning?

 

Human beings are creatures of faith. They are also worshippers, servants and disciples of somebody. The critical point is faith in What, service to Whom?

We have so many mundane dharmas and duties we serve on the basis of our mundane faith. Material life is all surrogate. It is a cheap imitation. But real faith, sradha is not cheap.

It is conferred by the grace of God. It is the most precious gift that starts us and keeps us on the path of self-realization.

That is why Lord Krsna told us to abandon all varieties of religion (dharma) and just surrender to Him.

[mahak]

Our friend here is referring to faith, not Srimati Sraddha. Srimati Sraddha is none other that Radharani, and there is no faith in her, only Krsna. Self realization requires no faith.

 

Srila Prabhupada himself affirms that the word "faith" is insignificant compared to the un-definable sraddha.

 

Thanks, Mr. Hughes, for participating on these forums, ys, mahaksadasa

[Avinash]

It looks like some of you know Mr. Hughes personally. Is this true?

[stonehearted]

Yes.

[Kulapavana]

For me, faith is also directly related to the experience. I have faith that this process works because I have experienced it's effects, just like I have faith in this bridge because I see cars driving over it.

 

Devotees often lose faith when they have bad experiences within the process or when they see no effect of their practices.

 

In terms of the more esoteric stuff the initial faith turns to consciousness with proper experiences. Just like initially you may believe in ghosts, but once you actually have a very real experience of their presence and power that initial belief turns into being conscious of them. In the same way a belief in Krsna is transformed into Krsna consciousness when we directly experience His presence and power in our life.

[Vikram Ramsundar]

 

The Gaudiya Vaisnava system of epistemology is much better than any other religion in the world, because it is based on a transcendental science of consciousness.

 

Haribol Bhaktisiddhartha Prabhu,

 

The problem is that every religious group in the world makes this very same claim. Some of the staunchest Vaishnavas in the world are those of the Sri sampradaya. They would never concur with this assertion of Gaudiya superiority. Orthodox Sankarites would also swear that Advaita Vedanta is the perfection of Indian spirituality. Similarly, most Muslim people are emphatic that Islam only is the true religion.

 

To me, this is indicative of the fact that human beings are conditioned by their karmic inheritance to more easily fit into a particular frame of mind and belief system. You and I are bound by the laws of nature to to Bengali Vaishnavism, and this principle applies to each individual. Ultimately, truth claims are fundamentally subjective, and as you said, there is really no time to fight over things like this.

[Beggar]

 

Haribol Bhaktisiddhartha Prabhu,

 

The problem is that every religious group in the world makes this very same claim. Some of the staunchest Vaishnavas in the world are those of the Sri sampradaya. They would never concur with this assertion of Gaudiya superiority. Orthodox Sankarites would also swear that Advaita Vedanta is the perfection of Indian spirituality. Similarly, most Muslim people are emphatic that Islam only is the true religion.

 

To me, this is indicative of the fact that human beings are conditioned by their karmic inheritance to more easily fit into a particular frame of mind and belief system. You and I are bound by the laws of nature to to Bengali Vaishnavism, and this principle applies to each individual. Ultimately, truth claims are fundamentally subjective, and as you said, there is really no time to fight over things like this.

 

There is a difference from saying that, "there is gradation everywhere" -

"Mathura is higher than Dvaraka and Vrndavana is higher than Mathura" and saying that my religion or guru is the only one.

[Vikram Ramsundar]

 

There is a difference from saying that, "there is gradation everywhere" -

"Mathura is higher than Dvaraka and Vrndavana is higher than Mathura" and saying that my religion or guru is the only one.

 

I can see your point but whether one insists upon gradations of devotional rapture or resorts to exclusivist claims in customary Abrahamic fashion, there is a similitude in terms of attachment to one's selected path, and this is primarily a question of psychology. The gist of my postulate revolves around this idea.

[Vikram Ramsundar]

 

Some deny control by others. They think waters is a nutcase speaking about the worms, and we get the same treatment when speaking about reptilian nagas who rule this planet of death. Some dont want to think about it while they declare independence and pledge allegiance to flags and border patrols.

 

Come on, Mahaksadasaji

 

I cannot believe that you keep going on about this nonsense so unabashedly. Bring me one reptilian Prison Warden or purvey definitive evidence of some illuminati from whichever part of the globe of your choosing and I'll shut up for good. And please do not recount to me that the Nagas had a hand in Benazir Bhutto's assassination.

[mahak]

not nagas, but negropanti maybe. It is a fact that she clearly told David Frost that bin laden was murdered five years ago, then all of a sudden, bam. Im not a conspiracvy freak, but not the other side of that same coin either, which means all those who believe the official lies. While you slam serious and credible counterpoints to your belief system with your buzz word given to you by an official policy of ridicule, you also embarass yourself by your utter apathetic complacency in this age known officially as one of quarrel, chaos, and confusion. All I ever ask is that one thinks of things from other angles, not espousing dogma that I demand belief in.

 

Maybe you ought to study modern psychology and their studies of the reptilian side in us all, and how if such things are not contained, well, the results on page one of everyday, every city news, this is where the reptilian roams. (In fact, negropanti is the crawford texas word for naga, study this dude, then tell me if there is no absolute cold green blood running thru his veins.) mashaka braddah. PS Mr Hughes is my godbrother, his website and projects are quite awesome.