Lord of the Flies

[Alex J]

As I walked back from the grocery store today, ankle deep in snow, I remembered the novel Lord of the Flies, which I read in eighth grade. I was told to read the book as a punishment of sorts, during an in-school suspension. A boy in our class was being bullied. A group of us were talked to by the school principal. The principal didn't feel that we took his talk seriously enough, because we laughed a bit on our way back to class. To help drive home the seriousness of our meeting, he suspended us. I think it was for three days. As I remember it, there were three or four of us who got suspended.

 

I haven't read all that much fiction, other than what I was told to read in school. Lord of the Flies stayed with me. As an interesting side-note, in the book, the symbol of authority is a conch.

 

In many ways, I experienced Lord of the Flies as a novel about ideas. This is one reason that it's stuck with me. During my three-day in-school suspension, I drank water, ate my lunch, went to the bathroom, and sat in a room reading Lord of the Flies. I was also told to write a report on the book, relating it to how we were behaving towards this boy in our class.

 

As I walked back from the grocery store today, I thought about Lord of the Flies, in connection with my experience within the ISKCON organization.

 

Here's something that Wikipedia had to say about the book:

 

"

Lord of the Flies is an allegorical novel by Nobel Prize-winning author William Golding. It discusses how culture created by man fails and how man shall always turn to barbarism, using parallels of a group of school-boys stuck on a deserted island who unsuccessfully try to govern themselves and consequently have disastrous results. Its stances on the already controversial subjects of human nature and individual welfare versus the common good earned it position 70 on the American Library Association's list of the 100 most frequently challenged Books of 1990–2000.

"

 

I googled "Lord of the Flies" and "ISKCON", and I got a link to a blog entitled "Madangopal", where I found the following excerpt:

 

"

Kind of like that novel, Lord of the Flies, where children, finding themselves suddlenly free of adult supervision, play at forming their own instinctive society. With nothing to check them, all becomes one big hunting game…

"

 

In a way, after Srila Prabhupada's disappearance pastime, it looks to me like the members of the ISKCON organization find themselves "suddenly free of adult supervision", they "play at forming their own instinctive society", and they "unsuccessfully try to govern themselves and consequently have disastrous results".

 

In an essay entitled "Lord of the Flies", Peter Brook writes:

 

"

My experience showed me that the only falsification in Golding's fable is the length of time the descent to savagery takes. His action takes about three months. I believe that if the cork of continued adult presence were removed from the bottle, complete catastrophe could occur within one long weekend.

"

 

How long did it take for "descent to savagery" within the ISKCON organization? Did things begin to crumble even before the "adult supervision" was gone?

I remember corresponding with someone, some months ago. We were trying to find a quote from Srila Prabhupada. Eventually we found it:

 

"

The acarya, the authorized representative of the Supreme Lord, establishes these principles, but when he disappears, things once again become disordered.

" (

purport to Srimad Bhagavatam 4.28.48

)

 

When Srila Prabhupada's disappearance pastime took place, the members of his movement were not only young "spiritually", they were also young, period. Like the boys in Lord of the Flies, stranded on the island, the members and leaders of the ISKCON organization created a culture. This culture may well be something different from what Srila Prabhupada wants.

 

Some very heavy, intense, and serious things have taken place within the organization. There is evidence of significant crime and abuse, on a fairly large scale. As in Lord of the Flies, in ISKCON some people were killed. In ISKCON, there is some disagreement about who exactly was killed.

 

When I think of Lord of the Flies, I also remember the last scene, when the boys are finally rescued by a passing ship, whose crew notices a forest fire that the boys start. From what I remember, when the boys finally come face to face with the rescuing adult, they realized what they've done, and they begin to weep. I found this quote online:

 

"

Ralph looked at him dumbly. For a moment he had a fleeting picture of the strange glamour that had once invested the beaches. But the island was scorched up like dead wood - Simon was dead - and Jack had.... The tears began to flow and sobs shook him. He gave himself up to them now for the first time on the island; great, shuddering spasms of grief that seemed to wrench his whole body. His voice rose under the black smoke before the burning wreckage of the island; and infected by that emotion, the other little boys began to shake and sob too. And in the middle of them, with filthy body, matted hair, and unwiped nose, Ralph wept...

"

 

As I finished writing this post, I also remembered the following quote, which mahaksadasa Prabhu had previously made reference to, from a room conversation with Srila Prabhupara, on October 2^nd, 1977, in Vrndavana:

 

"

In this condition, even I cannot move my body on the bed. Only chance you should give me--let me die little peacefully, without any anxiety. I have given in writing everything, whatever you wanted--my will, my executive (?) power, everything. Disaster will happen if you cannot manage it. Hm?

"

 

 

[gHari]

When you described the theme of the book: "Kind of like that novel, Lord of the Flies, where children, finding themselves suddlenly free of adult supervision, play at forming their own instinctive society. With nothing to check them, all becomes one big hunting game… " I immedaitely saw the material world with no God in charge and the resultant society we have formed. Kill the pig! Kill the pig!

[cbrahma]

I agree with your insight about ISKCON left to its own devices. I'm convinced Prabhupada had become aware of the corruption of those he had trusted to manage things. It's the brahmanas that are supposed to prevent the society from degrading into godless animalism.

 

Prabhupada had taken great care to put brahminical culture in place.

On the other hand he emphasized book sales as the best service.

So money became a priority in the mind of his American disciples. Something they could relate to, something after all that Amercian culture does well.

They abandoned the brahminical for the bottom line.

They just didn't get that book distribution ,although essential,was just part of the program.

 

The purpose of ISKCON was to bring society back to the service of Krsna, to advance the mission of Lord Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

One can see this now in ISKCON temples. It's become a thoroughly material enterprise whose only saving grace is the distribution or Prabhupada's books however edited.

 

If they actually read the books, took their contents to heart they would realize the goal of book distribution is not just more book distribution.

That was NOT Prabhupada's intent.

 

When people are moved to visit the temples, they should be inspired by the purity and humility of the devotees. I know when I visited before Prabhupada's samadhi, that was the case. The devotees were intensely personal, sweet and humble. Of course there were problems but they had the vision to resolve them. Through the mercy of the spiritual master they understood that it's all about establishing a service relationship - not controlling others for the sake of personal gain.

 

The difference between Lord of the Flies and ISKCON is that in ISCKON the savagery is more adult, more covered over.

Religious principles doesn't mean mundane religion. Religion in that sense is completely material, which is what ISKCOn has become. Why the temples are just Hindu cultural centers. Why the shakti has all but extinguished.

Anybody who is receptive to Prabhupada's message can see this.

[Kulapavana]

I know the book and I know Iskcon and I dont see much paralel between the two. I joined shortly after SP passing and I remember the good, the bad, and the ugly things Iskcon produced.

 

The seeds of Iskcon failures were sown very early on. It was the authoritarian and dogmatic managerial structure, emphasis on money, and requiring devotees to suspend any rational critical thinking.

[HerServant]

Not only were members and devotees of ISKCON young, they had very little, if any, direct association with Srila Prabhupada. Everything they learned about him was indirect. This fact is important because it tells us that each person was left "on his own" to interpret the "Masters and PhD of spiritual science (e.g. Srimad Bhagavatam and CC).

 

Now take in account that many senior devotees and leaders were either drug users, or former drug users. Consider the time place and circumstance (60s and 70s). Take in account that the devotees assembled by Prabhupada were largely under the age of 25. (recent studies show that human brain growth and development doesn't reach maturity until age 25, as opposed to 16-18 years as previously thought).

 

Finally factor in all of the unique religious backgrounds: "cultural religion (TV generation), protestant, catholic, jewish, agnostic, and atheist.

 

Not to mention kids under the age of 25 still possess an element of fantasy.

 

So Prabhupada was in fact a "dream" to them. He represented a dream of SOMETHING, but that thing was distorted in the minds of easily shaped youths, seeking out their fantasy.

 

In the 70s, each devotee I met (in Columbus OH) encouraged me to go to New Vrndavan. I was never attracted, because none of the one's I met were intellectuals. That is, they couldn't present their case when I asked them questions about their faith.

 

They could only present that Srila Prabhupada was something of a spiritual messiah. There were quite a few hippies in the movement, just looking for free shelter and free (really good) food.

 

So what you have left over is ISKCON.

 

I've met a LOT of (ISKCON) devotees who are AFRAID of their leadership.

 

What's that tell ya?

[Kulapavana]

 

I've met a LOT of (ISKCON) devotees who are AFRAID of their leadership.

 

What's that tell ya?

 

That tells me that these afraid devotees have been successfully brainwashed into believing that their leadership has actual control over them. If they really wanted, they could have shaken off the corrupt leaders any time!

 

These people lead because devotees are trained to simply follow. Common sense, rational thought and basic sense of honesty and justice went out the window, replaced by the dogmas of our movement.

[cbrahma]

 

Not only were members and devotees of ISKCON young, they had very little, if any, direct association with Srila Prabhupada. Everything they learned about him was indirect. This fact is important because it tells us that each person was left "on his own" to interpret the "Masters and PhD of spiritual science (e.g. Srimad Bhagavatam and CC).

 

Now take in account that many senior devotees and leaders were either drug users, or former drug users. Consider the time place and circumstance (60s and 70s). Take in account that the devotees assembled by Prabhupada were largely under the age of 25. (recent studies show that human brain growth and development doesn't reach maturity until age 25, as opposed to 16-18 years as previously thought).

 

Finally factor in all of the unique religious backgrounds: "cultural religion (TV generation), protestant, catholic, jewish, agnostic, and atheist.

 

Not to mention kids under the age of 25 still possess an element of fantasy.

 

So Prabhupada was in fact a "dream" to them. He represented a dream of SOMETHING, but that thing was distorted in the minds of easily shaped youths, seeking out their fantasy.

 

In the 70s, each devotee I met (in Columbus OH) encouraged me to go to New Vrndavan. I was never attracted, because none of the one's I met were intellectuals. That is, they couldn't present their case when I asked them questions about their faith.

 

They could only present that Srila Prabhupada was something of a spiritual messiah. There were quite a few hippies in the movement, just looking for free shelter and free (really good) food.

 

So what you have left over is ISKCON.

 

I've met a LOT of (ISKCON) devotees who are AFRAID of their leadership.

 

What's that tell ya?

Many of those 'boys' are old men now and are still in charge. Their years haven't taught them anything apparently since their still on the same degrading path. They're called the GBC passing their legacy of deception on to the new boys. I would trade present ISKCON for the bad old days any time.

[gHari]

Lord of the Flies .... So sad - we could have been thinking of Krsna and our forgetfulness of him, but instead we are in institution consciousness whining like little children about the faults of other children who tried to reach the stars. Get on with it. The champion you so desperately seek is you. You have Prabhupada; get on with it, Arjuna.

[cbrahma]

 

Lord of the Flies .... So sad - we could have been thinking of Krsna and our forgetfulness of him, but instead we are in institution consciousness whining like little children about the faults of other children who tried to reach the stars. Get on with it. The champion you so desperately seek is you. You have Prabhupada; get on with it, Arjuna.

I hear this type of response every time somebody tries to bring clarity and solution to the problem of Western vaisnavism. The messenger is attacked for the message. This is exactly what keeps ISKCON and is misleaders in business.

[bhaktajan]

When was the last time any of you faultfinders [you know who you are] accomplished anything other than self-angrandizing your own sense of 'High-thinking' intellectual descrimination?

 

What are any of you "expert" at?

It's the nectar that is of value.

 

Every complaint -- is what you deserve and all you get for your efforts. That is all.

Pick-up your self and keep marching:

Sri Isopanisad, Mantra 17 Purport-- Sacrifice means denying the interest of the senses. One has to learn this art by employing the senses in the service of the Lord during one’s lifetime. One can utilize the results of such practice at the time of death.

 

ys,

Bhaktajan

 

PS: On the other hand it's also fun to hear you all huff and puff over how much better it will be ---after WWIII is over.

[cbrahma]

 

When was the last time any of you faultfinders [you know who you are] accomplished anything other than self-angrandizing your own sense of 'High-thinking' intellectual descrimination?

 

What are any of you "expert" at?

It's the nectar that is of value.

 

Every complaint -- is what you deserve and all you get for your efforts. That is all.

Pick-up your self and keep marching:

Sri Isopanisad, Mantra 17 Purport-- Sacrifice means denying the interest of the senses. One has to learn this art by employing the senses in the service of the Lord during one’s lifetime. One can utilize the results of such practice at the time of death.

 

ys,

Bhaktajan

 

PS: On the other hand it's also fun to hear you all huff and puff over how much better it will be ---after WWIII is over.

 

There's a lot of huffing and puffing here in favor of those who mislead others in the name of God. You don't have to be a self-serving expert to understand this. Killing the messenger for the message. This apharada 'cover' of ISKCOn is why it succeeded so long in spite of committing major crimes which the karmi authorities had to move in and stop with lawsuits.

[gHari]

Build a temple in your heart. If you want, you can be temple president. You can be GBC. You are pujari and the financer. The big stone and mortar churches spanning the globe are no more glorious that your humble temple of gold ..... in every town and village. I accept my varna and ashrama away from the big men .... in every town and village. We can all get together at Ratha Yatra.

[Alex J]

 

That tells me that these afraid devotees have been successfully brainwashed into believing that their leadership has actual control over them. If they really wanted, they could have shaken off the corrupt leaders any time!

 

 

I hear this type of response every time somebody tries to bring clarity and solution to the problem of Western vaisnavism. The messenger is attacked for the message. This is exactly what keeps ISKCON and is misleaders in business.

 

Dear Kulapavana Prabhu and cbrahma Prabhu,

 

Thank you for your posts. When I read your words, quoted above, I thought about two excerpts that I like from Mark Twain's story "The Mysterious Stranger". I find the excerpts interesting, in the context of remaining connected to our authentic responses to situations.

 

In the story a crowd is stoning a woman to death, and Satan, a character in the story, is laughing at them. I'm reproducing the excerpts at the end of this post.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Sincerely,

Alex

 

---------------------------

 

They dragged her to a tree and threw a rope over the limb, and began to make a noose in it, some holding her, meantime, and she crying and begging, and her young daughter looking on and weeping, but afraid to say or do anything.

 

They hanged the lady, and I threw a stone at her, although in my heart I was sorry for her; but all were throwing stones and each was watching his neighbor, and if I had not done as the others did it would have been noticed and spoken of. Satan burst out laughing.

 

(...)

 

So we walked away, and I was not at ease, but was saying to myself, "He told them he was laughing at them, but it was a lie--he was laughing at me."

 

That made him laugh again, and he said, "Yes, I was laughing at you, because, in fear of what others might report about you, you stoned the woman when your heart revolted at the act--but I was laughing at the others, too."

 

"Why?"

 

"Because their case was yours."

 

"How is that?"

 

"Well, there were sixty-eight people there, and sixty-two of them had no more desire to throw a stone than you had."

[Kulapavana]

 

"Yes, I was laughing at you, because, in fear of what others might report about you, you stoned the woman when your heart revolted at the act--but I was laughing at the others, too."

 

"Why?"

 

"Because their case was yours."

 

"How is that?"

 

"Well, there were sixty-eight people there, and sixty-two of them had no more desire to throw a stone than you had."

 

Very fitting words.

 

I thank Krsna every day that I was not a part of any such acts of Iskcon herd mentality.

 

I caught on the games and cheating propensities among leading devotees quite early and was eventually booted out from the yatra for not willing to follow blindly.

 

I only regret leaving quietly, instead of at least informing my fellow bhaktas about my suspicions and misgivings regarding some of the Iskcon leaders. Some devotees hold it against me to this very day... I cant really blame them...

[bhaktajan]

 

Originally Posted by cbrahma

huffing and puffing here in favor of those who mislead others in the name of God. You don't have to be a self-serving expert to understand this. Killing the messenger for the message. This apharada 'cover' of ISKCOn is why it succeeded so long in spite of committing major crimes which the karmi authorities had to move in and stop with lawsuits.

YES, Iskcon is a success! No matter how many fall by the way side.

I was there to see many things go against the intended plans. [i knew 90 percent of everyone in the book "Monkey on a Stick" cir. 1987].

 

So what?

Who was mislead? [boo hoo you cry with such compassion for others pain].

The name of Krishna was used to mislead people? [write a book, get rich do what you can with your abilities].

 

You have to be a staunch self-serving drama-queen to understand that a messanger speaks on behalf of others --not to show "lamentation" as an internet posting past-time.

 

"This apharada 'cover' of ISKCOn" ---[i'm confused here! Are you the offensive one or am I the offender? I'm defending Iskcon]

 

"in spite of committing major crimes "--I know what you're referring to but I don't know why you think this is a cogent point. What Crime? Who would you have remedy it? What utopian world do you communicate with us that is devoid of the laws of petty mindedness?

 

'to move in and stop with lawsuits" --how would you expect to succeed with out bringing lawsuits? Many Ivy league school students have rich parents who are lawyers. Politicians are Lawyers. The Mayor is a Lawyer.

 

I expect nothing more from Iskcon than what Iskcon is famously expert at.

I see no faults with Iskcon. None. None. None.

If you have a problem then get professional council--but be very carefull that you aren't cheated. Than return to the Temple, in time, and start by washing pots. Again wash pots. Or sweep the halls. Or . . .

 

yeah, yours in Krishna's service,

Bhaktajan

[Alex J]

 

I know the book and I know Iskcon and I dont see much paralel between the two. I joined shortly after SP passing and I remember the good, the bad, and the ugly things Iskcon produced.

 

Dear Kulapavana Prabhu,

 

Thank you for responding to my post. I could give an example, from the history of the ISKCON organization, of something that reminds me of Lord of the Flies.

 

At the end of this post I'm including an excerpt from an email exchange that I had with Dhira Govinda Prabhu on March 8th, 2005, about the history of Gurukula within the ISKCON organization. I've previously posted excerpts from this exchange in another thread on this forum.

 

Thanks for reading.

 

Sincerely,

Alex

 

-------------------------

 

Dhira Govinda dasa: I do have quite a bit of contact with the details of that part of history, by dint of my service for 6+ years with the child protection office. Here is one example. While interviewing a Vaisnava youth he shared the following. Currently he is in his mid-thirties. When he was 9 years old he was sent to Vrndavana, from the United States. This was in November, 1977. Sharing his experience, it was clear that for a 9 year old to leave his mother for India was distressing. Still, overall his experience, despite the homesickness, was one of fun and adventure. He spoke positively of his experience in the Vrndavana gurukula, at least for the first few months when he arrived there. Who did Srila Prabhupada put in charge of the Vrndavana gurukula? Srila Prabhupada had many followers. To manage the gurukula in Vrndavana he appointed a man named Dr. Sharma. As far as I'm aware Dr. Sharma was not a follower of Srila Prabhupada. From what I understand he may not even have been a Vaisnava. He was a respectable Indian gentleman, with caring and common sense. From the descriptions given by this Vaisnava youth, and many others who were in Vrndavana at the time, Dr. Sharma was a very loving school principal. Sometimes he slapped the children, though I never heard complaints about his slapping. I heard things like "When he slapped us, we know we deserved it, and we felt that he cared about us." So, from many descriptions I've heard, the Vrndavana gurukula was austere, though overall a healthy environment, materially and spiritually. To continue with the story of the Vaisnava youth mentioned above- he reported that after the GBC meetings early in 1978, the first GBC meetings after Srila Prabhupada's departure, everything changed. His childhood life in Vrndavana became a nightmare. Dr. Sharma, and his staff, were removed, replaced by persons who complied with the political agenda of the ISKCON leaders. The mood in the school drastically changed. Brutality replaced compassion. Horror stories abounded.

 

(more...)

[cbrahma]

 

YES, Iskcon is a success! No matter how many fall by the way side.

I was there to see many things go against the intended plans. [i knew 90 percent of everyone in the book "Monkey on a Stick" cir. 1987].

 

So what?

Who was mislead? [boo hoo you cry with such compassion for others pain].

The name of Krishna was used to mislead people? [write a book, get rich do what you can with your abilities].

 

You have to be a staunch self-serving drama-queen to understand that a messanger speaks on behalf of others --not to show "lamentation" as an internet posting past-time.

 

"This apharada 'cover' of ISKCOn" ---[i'm confused here! Are you the offensive one or am I the offender? I'm defending Iskcon]

 

"in spite of committing major crimes "--I know what you're referring to but I don't know why you think this is a cogent point. What Crime? Who would you have remedy it? What utopian world do you communicate with us that is devoid of the laws of petty mindedness?

 

'to move in and stop with lawsuits" --how would you expect to succeed with out bringing lawsuits? Many Ivy league school students have rich parents who are lawyers. Politicians are Lawyers. The Mayor is a Lawyer.

 

I expect nothing more from Iskcon than what Iskcon is famously expert at.

I see no faults with Iskcon. None. None. None.

If you have a problem then get professional council--but be very carefull that you aren't cheated. Than return to the Temple, in time, and start by washing pots. Again wash pots. Or sweep the halls. Or . . .

 

yeah, yours in Krishna's service,

Bhaktajan

Your tone is quite offensive, not to mention the name-calling, which BTW violates the rules of this forum. If you are so concerned about apharada then you should practice that principle.

You are seriously in need of a history lesson. ISKCON has been in continual litigation because of lawsuits leveled at for all sorts of criminal activities which I will leave up to you to research (not the least of which is child molestation).

As far as apharada is concerned, to complain about offensiveness toward an institution that has seriously hurt people and continues to do so shows a really twisted sense of values.

[Alex J]

 

When was the last time any of you faultfinders [you know who you are] accomplished anything other than self-angrandizing your own sense of 'High-thinking' intellectual descrimination?

 

Dear bhaktajan Prabhu,

 

Thank you for expressing your thoughts. I'd like to share with you an alternate perspective on the topic of criticism and bhakti-yoga. At the end of this post I'm including an article that I find interesting in this connection.

 

Sincerely,

Alex

 

---------------------------

 

Vaisnavas criticize

by Dhira Govinda dasa, Jan. 26th, 2005

 

I believe it's a fairly common misconception that "Vaisnavas don't criticize." Let us consider some exalted Vaisnavas at the topmost platform of devotional service, such as Srila Prabhupada and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta. Can we say that they never criticized? No. Actually, they criticized quite a bit.

 

The sastric injunction, and philosophical truth, as I understand it, is that Vaisnavas are devoid of the propensity to criticize. In material consciousness we possess a propensity to criticize others, to put them down, so that, in some corrupted way we feel better about ourselves. A Vaisnava is free from this propensity.

 

A Vaisnava is also conscientious to not commit offenses, to other devotees or to any living entity. So, a Vaisnava is careful not to commit offenses, and is liberated from the propensity to criticize others. Simultaneously a Vaisnava does not deny his perceptions.

 

Being free from the propensity to criticize and fully conscious of his perceptions, and conversant and realized in sastra, a Vaisnava may choose to offer compassionate, constructive criticism.

 

It is important that we don't allow the conception that "Vaisnavas don't criticize" to prevent us from recognizing our perceptions and sharing them appropriately. Srila Prabhupada's teachings, as I understand them, are that if something is wrong and we don't speak up about it, then we are complicit in the transgression. Of course, if we determine that it is our service to express ourselves about an apparent misconception or wrongdoing, then it is important that our expression is Vaisnava-like and gentlemanly/gentlewomanly. A Vaisnava is bold, yet considerate.

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[bhaktajan]

 

Originally Posted by cbrahma

Your tone is quite offensive, not to mention the name-calling, which BTW violates the rules of this forum. If you are so concerned about apharada then you should practice that principle.

You are seriously in need of a history lesson. ISKCON has been in continual litigation because of lawsuits leveled at for all sorts of criminal activities which I will leave up to you to research (not the least of which is child molestation).

 

 

My tone is born of machismo [maculine bravado].

Any Name calling is actually a clinical nomenclature of which I am unaware of it's Latin equivlant. Any way you were not directly named--but you do know who you are.

 

Regarding the so-called statements about History of Iskcon--I was there and have not left!

Can you stop criminal behavior?

Show me the proof of "all sorts of criminal activities"--I demand you show concurrent proof of this!

 

I am protecting Iskcon. You a propagating propaganda. Bring forth the "research" yourself.

 

Stop the onesided badmouthing of our one and only International Society for Krishna Consciouness.

 

yours truely,

bhaktajan

[cbrahma]

 

My tone is born of machismo [maculine bravado].

Any Name calling is actually a clinical nomenclature of which I am unaware of it's Latin equivlant. Any way you were not directly named--but you do know who you are.

 

Regarding the so-called statements about History of Iskcon--I was there and have not left!

Can you stop criminal behavior?

Show me the proof of "all sorts of criminal activities"--I demand you show concurrent proof of this!

 

I am protecting Iskcon. You a propagating propaganda. Bring forth the "research" yourself.

 

Stop the onesided badmouthing of our one and only International Society for Krishna Consciouness.

 

yours truely,

bhaktajan

ISKCON without the truth, without proper leadership is NOT Prabhupada's ISKCON.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Any Name calling is actually a clinical nomenclature of which I am unaware of it's Latin equivlant.

 

Well, "name calling" might be unfair, but don't we all want to "Name call" (with a capital "N")?

 

[tackleberry]

Compared to the 'crimes' committed by other religious organizations, isn't it true that iskcon is somewhat better? I mean, you normally hear thousands of cases of, say molestation and other serious charges, reg. catholic priests, muslim clerics etc. but not so with respect to iskcon. So in comparision, it seems ok.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

 

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

Murwillumbah, Australia, January 20, 2000

...So we should try to remember this. If anyone is insulting, if anyone is beating, Don't think him as an enemy. Your activities are your enemy. So your activities from now, and in the future, should be how? Not to criticise. Not to offend. Not to do anything wrong. Otherwise, your activites will come and do this. So in this world no one is enemy or anything. That is why Narada Gosvami used to go to Kamsa Maharaja, and he used to think that, "He is my guru." And after that he used to go to Vasudeva Maharaja, and he also used to think that, "He is my guru." Narada Rsi went to Kamsa and said, "Oh, why are you waiting? Why are you not killing all the sons of Vasudeva? When they will come collectively, what will you do? So you should do it. I went to Kailasa or anywhere, and I was in the council of all demigods, and they were making some conspiracy thinking how to kill you. So all these are the sons of the demigods. All are demigods, and they will kill you if you are not alert. So you should be alert."

 

 

And when he went to Vasudeva Maharaja he said, "Oh, don't worry. Your bad times, your bad times have gone. Now, very soon, your 8th son of Devaki will kill Kamsa. So wait a little; wait a little. Don't feel so weak. He knows everything.

 

 

So you should try to do bhajan always. No thinking that, "He insulted me. He is my enemy. He is my friend." Not like this. The only friend is Krishna and Guru. It is very hard, very rare to find a real devotee, who is a real friend, and who, without no gain, will do good to you. He will always think of your welfare. Your wife, your sons, your friends - they will always bluff you, and they will try to enjoy their own sense gratification. All these things. Not for you, that you should be happy. Try to know all these things. Wealth cannot save you. Try to know all these things, and be one pointed to Krishna. And then try to be very happy, without no problem. The only problem is, "Oh, how to attain Krishna. Oh, where is Vrajendra-nandana? Where is Vrajendra-nandana? Where is Radhika?" Like this. Sometimes in Vrindavana, sometimes here and there, like Srila Rupa Gosvami and all others. As Srila Bhaktivedanta Svami Maharaja told, "My office is in Bombay, my sadhana-ksetra is Mayapura, and my abode is Vrindavana. So in his last days he was there in Vrindavana. Always think of Vrindavana, Vrindavana Candra and Vrindavana Candri.

 

 

Gaura Premanande!

 

[Kulapavana]

 

 

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

 

Murwillumbah, Australia, January 20, 2000

...So we should try to remember this. If anyone is insulting, if anyone is beating, Don't think him as an enemy. Your activities are your enemy.

 

With all due respect to NM, this is a theological answer, not a practical one. What would become of the Aryan society if the kings used such an approach? Only chaos and lawlessness...

 

[Shakti-Fan]

 

With all due respect to NM, this is a theological answer, not a practical one. What would become of the Aryan society if the kings used such an approach? Only chaos and lawlessness...

Srila Narayana Maharaja is Vaisnava brahmana not a ksatriya although ironically he was an Indian police officer as a young man. Vaisnava society is there to inculcate the pniciples of trnadapi sunicena taror iva suhisnuna.