Where is the fault in ISKCON?

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

kula tells it like it is.

soooo heavy.

but the truth is the truth!

 

You can say that again!

 

I'm sorry, but tape recorders can capture the words, but not the essence or the potency. There's something about being in the presence (physical or otherwise) of the pure souls to which nothing else can compare.

[suchandra]

 

kula tells it like it is.

soooo heavy.

but the truth is the truth!

Kula says, "Some of the people I have met in life who call themselves followers of Prabhupada bring him no glory, and no credit. they are the ones who turned millions of people against Vaishnavism."

Can be no coincidence that almost simultaneously this letter of SDG was published. Yes, this is sooooo heavy - but the truth is the truth.

Well this is good news, the main GBC writer is now admitting he has been cheating us for the past 30 years.

 

 

<center>Letter from Satsvarupa

</center>

 

Dear Maharajas and Prabhus,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I understand that many devotees still have questions about my past behavior. They doubt why I continue to have a position as an ISKCON leader. Therefore I would like to clarify my falldown in 2002, my recovery, service, and relationship to ISKCON.

First of all I would like to apologize to Pranada and Nagaraja Prabhus, whom I deeply hurt and whose trust I betrayed. I genuinely apologize to all my disciples, my godbrothers and godsisters, and all members of ISKCON. I am beginning to understand the depth of the damage my behavior has caused for everyone, and the compounding of the damage by initially understating the matter.

The reaction to this fall has been devastating to the spiritual lives of so many devotees and created much mistrust in myself. As I have held a position of high honor in ISKCON my misbehavior naturally throws doubts upon other leaders in the movement. This is a disservice to ISKCON and its leaders. For this, too, I apologize sincerely. I have been praying that Lord Krsna and Srila Prabhupada forgive me. I realize that many Vaishnavas want me to be transparent and accept responsibility for my actions, so I am opening my heart to them in an attempt to bring closure to this sad chapter in my history.

When I first wrote about my relationship with Pranada Dasi, I understated the length and seriousness of it. I was frightened and wanted to protect my reputation, Pranada’s reputation, and not cause unnecessary damage to the faith of many devotees who counted on me to provide a proper example of Krsna consciousness. In retrospect this was a mistake, and I hope this letter serves to clarify matters.

As a young sannyasi I developed a secret attraction for Pranada Dasi in 1978 in Los Angeles. Later, I gave her and her husband at the time, Vadiraja Dasa, second initiation. I never revealed this attraction to her or anyone. In 1980 when Pranada Dasi’s marriage to Vadiraja dasa failed I suggested she move to Gita-nagari. Sometime later she began managing Gita-nagari Press, my tape ministry, and assisting me in a secretarial role as my typist for letters to my disciples and other duties required to fulfill my GBC responsibilities. From 1980 to 1985, due to my ongoing attraction to her, I instructed her, as her spiritual master, to do many things that were quite difficult for her. These included moving away from Gita-nagari, leaving her son behind, and getting married (I had previously insisted she vow never to remarry). After she married and moved away from my home zone my attraction subsided. Therefore, my attraction lasted about seven years.

In December of 2001, I was at a medical and spiritual low point in my life. I had wanted to tell Pranada Dasi, before I died of my old feelings for her because this was a part of my life. Naively I told her of my prior attachment to her. I did not anticipate the result of my confession, which was a revival of the old feelings. Thus began an illicit and intimate romantic phone, e-mail, and letter exchange lasting over a year. During this year she also visited me three times in Ireland, and during one such visit, there was physical intimacy.

During this time I was diagnosed with anticipatory anxiety disorder. Pranada became involved with my care team since she has some expertise in handling this disorder. Of course, this was a formula for further falldown.

However, my relationship with Pranada Dasi wasn’t the sum total of my spiritual life being at a low point. I was exhausted from the constant migraine pain and reaction to the doctor’s supervised medical regimen. This low point also manifested in several ways including reduced japa.

My simple spiritual analysis of this fall is that Krsna saw some pride in me. As a spiritual master, sannyasi, and man I failed miserably before Prabhupada and Krsna. In November 2002 we decided to end the relationship.

The way I dealt with Pranada over the years has shaken her to the core and left her physically and emotionally devastated. I am chagrined by my behavior towards her and hope that this letter of my taking responsibility is a step toward her healing. Since then, I have undergone four-and-a-half years of professional psychological counseling, continuing medical psychiatric care, and spiritual introspection. Over the years my medicine intake has been reduced by the doctor, so I don’t suffer from the side effects anymore-lethargy, memory loss, confusion, etc. For the sake of honesty and spiritual improvement, I feel it is necessary to make some adjustments in my service and position in ISKCON.

I am back in America (Delaware), living in a humble asrama with several men and devotee neighbors. We have a regular morning program and chanting hours. There is facility for devotees to visit, and I welcome this in a scheduled way as my improved health is allowing. I have felt the importance of senior association for my continuing recovery. I have established an open-door policy, which may be contrary to my reclusive nature, but I think it is important to implement. I will start visiting the holy dhamas in India as of January to beg forgiveness and accelerate my purification. I will occasionally travel to see devotees who may not otherwise get a chance to visit me, but in general I will remain retired from the forefront of ISKCON preaching. I will now voluntarily implement a peer review system for my publishing efforts-presently, I am continuing the series A Poor Man Reads the Bhagavatam, which should go on for the rest of my years.

I will no longer give initiation nor present myself as an initiating guru. I would encourage those who wish to take shelter of senior Vaishnavas in ISKCON for their spiritual growth to do so. Those who wish to continue as my disciples can hear from me through my books and website, through personal correspondence, and whenever possible, in person.

I am now sixty-eight years old. I wish to continue my recommitment to the sannyasa-asrama that Srila Prabhupada assigned to me.

In closing, I hope this communication will help heal the wounds and serve as a warning to others who may become lax in their Krsna consciousness as I did.

Your servant,

Satsvarupa dasa Goswami

 

[krsna]

 

 

"Responsibilities" Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.8.51

Los Angeles, May 13, 1973

 

listen

 

 

<HR width="60%" color=#ff0000 SIZE=1>

Jagadisa: (translation) "I have killed many friends of women, and I have thus caused enmity to such an extent that it is not possible to undo it by material welfare work."

 

Prabhupada: So here is a special reference to the woman, strinam. Previously there was reference bala-dvija. Eh? Previous verse? Bala-dvija-suhrn-mitra-pitr-bhratr-guru-druhah. Bala. Bala means children. Dvija. Dvija means brahmana or Vaisnava, who are fully engaged in the matter of cultivating spiritual knowledge. Brahma janatiti brahmanah. One who knows what is Absolute Truth, Brahman.

 

So children, brahmana, and here it is said stri, woman. According to Vedic politics, the children and brahmana, old men and woman, they have no fault. They are out of all laws of the state. Their fault will never be taken as seriously. They are innocent. They require protection. Now the agitation is that woman should have equal rights with man. So that is not Vedic idea. Vedic idea is that woman should be always protected. She is not independent. Just like child. All these children, their mother is always attentive. Child is going here; she is taking care. So that dependence is required. If the child says, "I am independent," that is not for his profit. The child must be taken care of. That is good. Similarly, woman also. Just like old man like us, I am always taken care of. Similarly, a brahmana also should be taken care of, first consideration. First protection, brahmana, saintly person. That is civilization. That is human society. Not that the children, women and the brahmanas should be treated like cats and dogs. No, that is not civilization.

 

So Maharaja Yudhisthira is very much repentant: "I have killed so many men, and they are, some of them are father, some of them are brother, some of them are sons, some of them are husbands of the women. And because I have killed them, now this woman class, they have become friendless." So he is... Just see how much he is aggrieved, thinking of the condition of the woman. And people accuse that India, woman are considered just like slaves. Just see. The king is thinking of woman so seriously, and is it a fact that in India woman is taken as slaves? Who cares for the slaves? So much anxiety. And that is king. Yes. A king shall give protection to everyone, especially those who are helpless.

 

So woman is protected in childhood by the father, and when she is grown-up girl, youth, although the father is ready to give her protection in every respect, but she has developed by that time sex desires. Under the circumstances, it is the duty of the father to hand over the girl to a nice young boy to take her protection. This is marriage. Kanya-dana. According to Vedic system, kanya, means daughter, is given in charity. To find out a suitable... Practically, I'll say, in our childhood age, my sisters were married between nine to twelve years. My eldest sister was married when she was nine years old, before my birth. She is the eldest. And my second sister was married at the age of twelve, twelve years. And my third sister was married at the age of (indistinct) years. So by the (indistinct) years, the marriage must be finished. That was the duty of the father. I remember, because my second sister was going twelve years, my mother said to my father that "I shall go to the river and commit suicide. The daughter is not married." (laughter) You see. The father was very sorry, "Yes, I am trying. What can I do?" (laughter) And then next generation, when my... I was also married man, you know. I was married when my wife was only eleven years old. And at the age of fourteen years she gave birth to first child. And next generation, when my eldest daughter was married at the age of sixteen years -- it is little increased -- but I was also very much upset that the daughter is sixteen years old.

 

But now things have changed. Nobody cares whether the daughter is married or not. But that is not good. Another difficulty is that everywhere, all over the world, the female population is greater than, on the average, than male population. So if each and every woman has to be married, then there is no sufficient number of male population. Therefore, according to Vedic rituals, those who are higher caste, just like the ksatriyas or the brahmanas, especially, others also, polygamy is allowed. Polygamy is allowed. Just like our most exalted personality, Krsna, He has married sixteen thousand wives. He is God. (laughter) Unless you have got so many wives, how you can be God? Not that sixteen thousand wives, one wife is to be seen one day, so that the turn will come after sixteen thousand days. No. That is God. He expanded Himself into sixteen thousand forms also, so that every wife was happy to live with the husband. And for Krsna, why sixteen thousand? If He marries sixteen millions, still, it is not sufficient. Because in the Bhagavad-gita it is said, isvarah sarva-bhutanam hrd-dese 'rjuna tisthati: [bg. 18.61] "The Supreme Lord is situated in the heart of all living entities." So all living entities, if Krsna can expand Himself to live in the heart of all living entities, and from the heart He comes out to become some woman's husband, is it very difficult for Krsna? That is not difficult.

 

Anyway, the point is that Maharaja Yudhisthira, he, how responsible king, just think over. Arjuna was also thinking before fighting. He was arguing with Krsna that "If I kill my brothers, all the my sister-in-laws, they'll be widow." And there was no such thing as widow-marriage in India. No. No widow can marry. Why? Because the woman population is greater than the man. If widow again marries, then the unmarried girl does not get chance to have another husband. Therefore there was no widow-marriage. Widow-marriage was especially allowed only when the girl did not see her husband at any time or she had no children. Formerly, in our days, younger days, although the girl was married at an early age, she was not allowed to see her husband unless she is grown-up fully. Unless she has attained puberty, she is not... She lives with her parents. But she knows that "I have got my husband." This consciousness is a great pleasure for a women psychologically, that "I have got husband." A very nice system. And when the girl grows up, puberty, then again another ceremony is taken. That is almost like second marriage. The girl goes to her husband, to live with her husband. This was the system.

 

So women were taken so much care by the Vedic civilization. Still they are taken. It is the duty of the father... Until she is married, it is the duty of the father to give her all protection. Therefore the father wants to get her married, to get relief from the responsibility. He has a great responsibility. It is called kanya-daya. Actually the word is called kanya-daya. Putra-rna. Rna means debt. If you are debtor to somebody you may not pay it, saying, "Sir, I have no money. Whatever you like, you can do." But daya means a great burden. It must be get relieved of. Daya means a great responsibility. Daya. Daya-bhak. Just like a son inherits the property of the father... It is called daya-bhak, law. Similarly, this is the, I mean to say, most obligatory duty of the father, to get the daughter married. And then it is the duty of the husband next. Just like we get... When we perform marriage ceremony in our society, we get the husband promise that he takes charge of the girl for life. And the girl agrees to serve the boy for life. There is no question of divorce.

 

So the father hands over the charge to a nice boy. Never mind he is rich or no. That doesn't matter. He must be a responsible boy, who knows his responsibility. Not that "Today I marry, and tomorrow I go away. That's all." Not like that. Still you will find in India, even the poorest man, living with husband and wife very happily. Still you will find. I have seen (in) Ahmedabad. One day I saw in the street one husband and wife pulling on a thela, hand-cart, with great load, and the small child is on the load. That means their child. They are laborer class. But ordinary laborer class, poor man, but they are living husband and wife and children happily. Still.

 

So marriage is very compulsory in Vedic system because who is to take charge of the woman? They require protection. The father must take charge naturally, or the husband. And when she is old... Just like Caitanya Mahaprabhu was taking charge of His widow mother. So when He took sannyasa, so mother became very much upset: "Oh, that I have no husband, and this boy is going to take sannyasa." Naturally. But that is a different case. For Krsna's sake, we can forsake our obligatory duties. For Krsna's sake. In the sastra it is said that one who has fully surrendered to Krsna, he has no more any material duty. Neither he has got any obligation that he must perform. But so long he is not fully surrendered to Krsna, he has to execute each and every duty as obligatory.

 

So the point is that Yudhisthira Maharaja, how much responsible king he was, that for ordinary woman, the soldiers... Take for... Soldiers or officers, commander-in-chief, they all died. Now he is thinking of their welfare activities, how to give protection to these woman. Just imagine how much responsible king. And he is thinking in this way, that "The sinful activity which I have done in this connection by killing their husbands or sons or father, even if I give some donation as welfare..." Just like in your country there is welfare department. All these helpless girls are given some donation. He says, "That is not sufficient. That... By that way, I cannot compensate what harm I have done to them." That is... That is his con... "Even if I give some money, donation, they'll not be happy, because they have lost their protection." This is called responsible king. How much they are thinking. And similarly he was thinking for the children.

 

Naturally... I have sometimes told you that we have got one Godbrother, German. He said that in the last war, in the first war, which started in 1914, so all the men were killed everywhere. And the women, they went to the church, either as wife or as sister or as daughter or as mother. Naturally, they prayed for their relatives to come back. But who is coming back? They were all dead. So they became atheist, that "There is no God." Because they prayed for their relatives to come back... So that is our position. We want to worship God if He becomes my order-supplier. "I will order and He will supply. Otherwise there is no God. I don't care for this nonsense God. He must satisfy my senses. I want this, and You must satisfy." Just like the Communists, they ask people in general to go to the church, and they say, "Now pray." So the Christian prayer, "O God, give us our daily bread." So when they come out, the Communist leaders, they ask, "Have you got bread?No, sir.You ask us." They ask, "O my Communist friend, give me the bread.Take bread, as many as you like."

 

So common men, they think that bread is coming from these rascals. But actually, bread is coming from God. So because God could not supply the bread in the church, they become Communists. This is the position. They take God as some solace, what is called, opium? Opiate. Yes. When there is no other source... And the whole over the world, they do not know, actually, what is God, what is our relationship with, what is God's function. That you will find only in Krsna consciousness movement. That we can say very proudly. What is God, what is the philosophy, what He is doing, what is His name, what is His address, what is His father's name -- we know everything. (laughter) That is our position.

 

So a king must be very responsible for the citizens how they are happy. So Yudhisthira Maharaja was that type of king. Every king was like that. It was the duty of the king to see. You have read already that during Yudhisthira Maharaja's time there was no excessive heat or excessive cold, neither there was disease in the country. Because the king was so perfect, so pious, so God-conscious, that these things would not disturb. And the citizens, also, would abide by the orders of the king. So everything was very peaceful. Very peaceful. So without king, not like the present government officers, all rogues and simply take taxes and let the citizens go to hell. There is no protection for anyone, either for the children, either for the brahmanas or for the women. No protection. "You go to hell. If you like, we can give you some contribution. That's all." No. The king must be so responsible that he should see to the comfort of the citizens, especially the brahmanas, the children and the women. This was the duty of the king.

 

Go on reading. Grhamedhi, the purport, grhamedhi.

 

Pradyumna: "The grhamedhis are those whose only business is to perform welfare work for the sake of material prosperity. Such material prosperity is sometimes hampered by sinful activities, and the materialist is sure to commit sins even unintentionally in the course of discharging material duties. To get relief from such sinful reactions, the Vedas prescribe several kinds of sacrifices. It is said in the Vedas that by performing the asvamedha-yajna, or horse sacrifice, one can get relief from even brahma-hatya, the killing of a brahmana. Yudhisthira Maharaja performed this asvamedha-yajna, but he thinks that even by performing such yajnas it is not possible to get relief from the great sins committed."

 

Prabhupada: Yes. Suppose you have done something wrong. So the court fines you, "Oh, you have done this wrong." Just like one man knocked some of our student, and he died, and then he was fined twenty thousand dollars, like that. So everyone knows that "If I knock somebody or kill somebody, there is motor accident, there will be so much trouble." And when there is trouble, actually, they go and fine some fine. But the accident is going on. Nobody is careful. So that is the position. Unless one is careful to his sense that "Why should I drive so fiercely or without any care that others may be injured, my car will be injured? Why shall I created this trouble? Let me drive the car very conscientiously..." So that is required. Simply atonement, or giving fine for some misdeed, that is not sufficient. One should be awakened to his knowledge about his responsibility.

 

So this grhamedhi... There are two words: grhamedhi and grhastha. I have explained many times. Grhamedhi has no philosophy. He is like cats and dog. Every animal has also family, wife, children. So those who have no responsibility in life, no Krsna consciousness, they are called grhamedhis, and those who live with family, wife and children, but have got this sense of responsibility, that "I am meant for developing my dormant Krsna consciousness," they are called grhasthas. So there is two words. So don't become grhamedhis, simply having a wife and few children. That, cats and dogs they have also got. That is not required. You find inconvenience to live alone as brahmacari -- all right, you take to a wife. Live with wife. Live responsibly. Develop Krsna consciousness. That is grhastha. Not that grhastha like cats and dogs.

 

Thank you very much. (end)

 

>>> Ref. VedaBase => Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.8.51 -- Los Angeles, May 13, 1973

[suchandra]

 

The child must be taken care of. That is good. Similarly, woman also. Just like old man like us, I am always taken care of. Similarly, a brahmana also should be taken care of, first consideration. First protection, brahmana, saintly person. That is civilization. That is human society. Not that the children, women and the brahmanas should be treated like cats and dogs. No, that is not civilization.

 

Yes, children must be taken care of.

 

A Vegetarian Christmas

by HG Kurma Prabhu

 

Sunday, December 23, 2007

 

 

Here's a great Christmas-friendly recipe for those of you agonising over what to cook for vegetarians this Christmas.

Yes, it's the succulent Kofta.

Succulent Mixed Vegetable Balls in Herbed Tomato Sauce (Kofta)

Koftas are succulent, Indian style vegetable balls that can be served soaking in sauce or smothered in gravy. A number of vegetables are suitable for making kofta – potato, cabbage, cauliflower, spinach and radish are the most popular. My favourite kofta are made from a mixture of cauliflower and cabbage and served on a bed of steaming hot rice, or as illustrated, couscous. Try these succulent delights either as part of a main meal or as an accompanying savoury. Makes 24 koftas.

Sauce 3 tablespoons olive oil 2 bay leaves ½ teaspoon yellow asafetida powder 4 cups tomato puree 1 teaspoon dried basil 2 teaspoons salt ¼ teaspoon freshly ground black pepper 1½ teaspoons sugar

Koftas 2 cups grated cauliflower 2 cups grated cabbage 1½ cups chickpea flour ½ teaspoon yellow asafetida powder 1 teaspoon ground cumin 1½ teaspoon salt 1 teaspoon garam masala ½ teaspoon cayenne oil for deep frying

The sauce: Heat the oil in a saucepan over moderate heat. When hot, drop in the bay leaves and saute for 1 minute or until fragrant. Sprinkle in the yellow asafetida powder, and fry momentarily.

Stir in the tomato puree and basil. Raise the heat, bring to the boil, reduce the heat and simmer for 10 minutes or until a little reduced. Add in the salt, pepper and sugar, remove from the heat and keep warm.

The koftas: Combine all the kofta ingredients in a bowl until well mixed. Roll the mixture into 24 balls. Heat the oil for deep-frying in a wok or deep pan over fairly high heat to about 180° C / 350° F. Carefully drop in 6-8 balls.

Fry the koftas for 2 or 3 minutes or until they rise to the surface and start to colour.

Reduce the heat to low, and fry for another 8-10 minutes, or until they are a deep reddish brown.

Remove and drain on paper towels. Increase the oil temperature to its original temperature, and repeat the frying procedure for the remaining batches of koftas.

Serve: soak the koftas in the hot sauce 10 minutes before serving time to allow them to fully soak and become plump and succulent.

[realist]

Excellent thread!!

[Kulapavana]

 

I am now sixty-eight years old. I wish to continue my recommitment to the sannyasa-asrama that Srila Prabhupada assigned to me.

 

 

In closing, I hope this communication will help heal the wounds and serve as a warning to others who may become lax in their Krsna consciousness as I did.

Your servant,

Satsvarupa dasa Goswami

 

 

Alas Maharaja, you MISSED the lesson... Your sannyasa is a fake, so is your current life. You are not a sannyasi because you wear saffron and dont have sex. You are a sannyasi because you renounced the world with all its fake glamor, fame, profit and distinction - but you did not!

 

You are a fake royalty of Iskcon - people who hardly understood the most basic things about our tradition: surrender, humility, and honesty in the face of the Lord and His devotees - but who continue to be served hand and foot by naive neophytes you are supposedly training in spiritual life.

 

You want to be a sannyasi? Become God's beggar... but you probably have no clue what it is...

 

 

[suchandra]

 

Alas Maharaja, you MISSED the lesson... Your sannyasa is a fake, so is your current life. You are not a sannyasi because you wear saffron and dont have sex. You are a sannyasi because you renounced the world with all its fake glamor, fame, profit and distinction - but you did not!

 

You are a fake royalty of Iskcon - people who hardly understood the most basic things about our tradition: surrender, humility, and honesty in the face of the Lord and His devotees - but who continue to be served hand and foot by naive neophytes you are supposedly training in spiritual life.

 

You want to be a sannyasi? Become God's beggar... but you probably have no clue what it is...

 

Looks like Prabhupada would hinge everything on the promise of a prospective disciple given at the initiation ceremony. As soon a disciple would renege on that promise, it is considered very similiar to infringement of a contract and Prabhupada would not take any responsibilty for such a disciple's deviant action.

In other words, easy come, easy go - it was easy to become a disciple, but without sticking to the rules the spiritual connection was immediately interrupted and a disciple found himself reconnected to his specific karmic parameters - "become a mouse again".

 

Saturday, December 23, 1967 San Francisco, Calif.

 

My Dear Satsvarupa,

 

I also do not like too much editorial work. This too much editorial work on Gitopanisad has created some misunderstanding between the editorial staffs. Anyway, in future, one man should edit it and be sufficient for our printing. And I do not want that Lord Caitanya's Teachings should be edited again and typed again and waste time in that way. I have also informed Rayarama of this, and you can also inform him like this. The book should be printed immediately without any waste of time. That is my desire.

 

Regarding Boston and Harvard University Kirtana, I quite appreciate your noble activities. Our Kirtana movement is genuine, and if the unsophisticated students take it seriously, it will be a great achievement. I know that all these Bogus Yogis they are cheating the public, but at the same time your countrymen also want to be cheated. They are cheating the public by words of extravagancy, saying that anyone can meditate even he is a drunkard. These cheap words attract people and these rascals become popular.

 

So we don't want cheap popularity; I was very glad to learn from Gargamuni that Brahmananda refused to place my identification with so many cheater Swamis. We shall always remain distinct from all these cheaters. If we can convert one person in Krishna consciousness, that is our success of life. We don't want too many rascal followers. Let us perform this movement sincerely with faith in Krishna and people will gradually appreciate our service.

 

I thank you very much once more for your ardent desire to cooperate with my missionary work. Krishna will make you happy.

 

Hope you are well.

 

Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

 

full letter: http://sangalog.blogspot.com/2004_12_19_sangalog_archive.html#107220828971261812

[Guruvani]

In his last days, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur made some statements and endorsements concerning his leading disciples.

 

Concerning Srila Sridhar Maharaja he said "I am satisfied that after I am gone there is at least one disciple left behind who can represent my conceptions".

 

So, those who would say that Srila Sridhar Maharaja advocated or preached some jnana-misra bhakti regarding the origin and the fall of the jiva are directly challenging the judgement of Srila Saraswati Thakur and the endorsement Srila Sridhar Maharaja by Srila Saraswati Thakur.

 

As such, concerning the authenticity and the philosophical understanding of Srila Sridhar Maharaja, we cannot but conclude that anyone who challenges his statements and positions on philosophical issues is directly insulting the judgement of Srila Saraswati Thakur and challenging his prounouncements.

 

No other disciple of Srila Saraswati Thakur enjoys the kind of endorsement and support that Srila Sridhar Maharaja received from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur.

 

As such, we can conclude, according to the statement and pronouncement of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur, that any philosophical issues, discrepancies or controversies that might arise in the Saraswati sampradaya after his passing are best put before Srila Sridhar Maharaja for clarification.

 

Therefore, the accusation that Srila Sridhar Maharaja has espoused erroneous siddhanta in terms of the Gaudiya shastra is very much a insult to the authority and the intelligence of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur.

 

Even Srila Prabhupada Bhaktivedanta Swami had full faith and confidence in the philosophical erudition of Srila Sridhar Maharaja and just before his passing advised some of his leading disciples to consult Srila Sridhar Maharaja on philosphical issues.

 

So, considering the endorsement of both Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur and Srila Prabhupada Bhaktivedanta Swami, any philosphical discrepancies that have come up since the passing of Srila Prabhupada should be laid to rest by the conclusions of Srila Sridhar Maharaja.

 

None else has received such authoritative endorsement from the founder of the Saraswati sampradaya or his great world preacher disciple Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada.

[krsna]

By Srutadeva das

“ISKCON, with all thy faults, I love thee”

In May of 2006, a young man who had been born into a family of devotees, who had gone to and been abused at different ISKCON gurukulas in the 70’s and 80’s, committed suicide. A huge outpouring of emotion surged through the Vaishnava community, especially on the internet. On the Chakra website, in addressing abuse in ISKCON, someone wrote:

“How can somebody take disksha from Prabhupada, chant for many years, study the shastra for many years, and end up abusing their power like this? How can somebody who associated with Prabhupada personally so much, who was personally given sannyas by Prabhupada and who was glorified by Prabhupada, end up abusing his power so much? (I’m referring to ‘Kirtanananda Swami’ in particular.) How can I have faith anymore that Prabhupada was a pure devotee? I don’t want to offend anybody, but this is how I am really thinking and feeling right now. My faith in ISKCON is almost finished, and my faith in Prabhupada and Krishna is slipping.”

In a response, another devotee wrote:

“This is possible because contrary to mass opinion in ISKCON, Srila Prabhupada was not superhuman. Although he was amazingly accurate in assessing people’s character, he was not infallible. He was capable of making an error of judgment, of putting the wrong people in charge of our movement and in charge of our schools. The reason for this is the limitations inherent in the jiva soul - they include him not being omniscient, thus there is the possibility of him making a mistake. That freedom from error is in relation to the philosophy, as the liberated soul never changes it and thus presents it as it is - perfectly- and without error.”

The first devotee brings up some very important questions and honestly reveals having a crisis of faith. How could someone who had such close association with Srila Prabhupada falldown from his spiritual practices? How could someone who is chanting Hare Krishna regularly and following the practices of Krsna consciousness become an abusive person? I am sure we have all pondered these heart-wrenching questions at one time or another. There is an interesting word - iatrogenic. This term is defined as “induced inadvertently by a physician or surgeon or by medical treatment or diagnostic procedures.” It is used especially in relation to a complication of treatment. It is estimated that in the United States alone, 250,000 deaths per year are attributed to iatrogenic causes. That would put doctors and hospitals as the third leading cause of death in the US! So not everyone who goes to a doctor or a hospital walks out a perfectly cured person. Similarly, this Krsna consciousness movement is a hospital for the diseased souls of Kali-yuga. It is a very difficult job to become free from the diseased condition.

Certainly I don’t think anyone involved in ISKCON will disagree that there is much room for improvement. But let us not subsribe to the logic of “give the dog a bad name and hang it.” Because there have been many problems within ISKCON, some of an extremely serious nature, that does not mean that the whole purpose and mission of ISKCON has been a failure. As for Srila Prabhupada, to understand his words, actions and decisions, one must have a fairly deep understanding and appreciation for Vaishnava culture and philosophy and also the time and place in which Srila Prabhupada was preaching.

ISKCON’s Mission

First of all, what is the purpose of ISKCON? Of course, Srila Prabhupada wrote down his seven purposes of ISKCON. But to summarize, if that is acceptable to our readers, Srila Prabhupada’s sole mission in life was, as was his spiritual master’s and his spiritual master’s before him, the mission of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, to help the fallen conditioned souls who are rotting within this material world by teaching them the process of Krsna consciousness, devotional service to the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Lord Sri Krsna. Not only teaching, but benedicting and practically forcing them in one way or other to get some transcendental benefit. Something to change the terrible downward course of their sinful, Kali-yuga existences.

Krsna Himself states in Bhagavad-gita:

In this endeavor there is no loss or diminution, and a little advancement on this path can protect one from the most dangerous type of fear.

PURPORT

Activity in Krsna consciousness, or acting for the benefit of Krsna without expectation of sense gratification, is the highest transcendental quality of work… One percent done in Krsna consciousness bears permanent results, so that the next beginning is from the point of two percent, whereas in material activity without a hundred percent success there is no profit. Ajamila performed his duty in some percentage of Krsna consciousness, but the result he enjoyed at the end was a hundred percent, by the grace of the Lord. There is a nice verse in this connection in Srimad-Bhagavatam (1.5.17):

“If someone gives up his occupational duties and works in Krsna consciousness and then falls down on account of not completing his work, what loss is there on his part? And what can one gain if one performs his material activities perfectly?”

(Bhagavad-gita 2.40)

And in the Sri Caitanya-caritamrta it is said:

“My dear Thakura Haridasa, in this Age of Kali most people are bereft of Vedic culture, and therefore they are called yavanas. They are concerned only with killing cows and brahminical culture. In this way they all engage in sinful acts. How will these yavanas be delivered? To My great unhappiness, I do not see any way.”

PURPORT

Those who are following in the footsteps of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu should take the Lord’s mission most seriously. In this Age of Kali, people are gradually becoming less than animals. Nevertheless, although they are eating the flesh of cows and are envious of brahminical culture, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is considering how to deliver them from this horrible condition of life. Unfortunately, even some so-called Vaishnavas enviously refuse to cooperate with this movement but instead condemn it in so many ways. We are very sorry to say that these people try to find fault with us, being unnecessarily envious of our activities, although we are trying to the best of our ability to introduce the Krsna consciousness movement directly into the countries of the yavanas and mlecchas. Such yavanas and mlecchas are coming to us and becoming purified Vaishnavas who follow in the footsteps of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu. One who identifies himself as a follower of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu should feel like Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, who said, “How will all these yavanas be delivered?” Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu was always anxious to deliver the fallen souls because their fallen condition gave Him great unhappiness. That is the platform on which one can propagate the mission of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

Haridasa Thakura replied, “My dear Lord, do not be in anxiety. Do not be unhappy to see the condition of the yavanas in material existence.

PURPORT

These words of Haridasa Thakura are just befitting a devotee who has dedicated his life and soul to the service of the Lord. When the Lord is unhappy because of the condition of the fallen souls, the devotee consoles Him, saying, “My dear Lord, do not be in anxiety.” This is service. Everyone should adopt the cause of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu to try to relieve Him from the anxiety He feels. This is actually service to the Lord. One who tries to relieve Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu’s anxiety for the fallen souls is certainly a most dear and confidential devotee of the Lord. To blaspheme such a devotee who is trying his best to spread the cult of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the greatest offense. One who does so is simply awaiting punishment for his envy.

“Because the yavanas are accustomed to saying ‘ha rama, ha rama’ [‘O Lord Ramacandra’], they will very easily be delivered by this namabhasa. A devotee in advanced ecstatic love exclaims, ‘O my Lord Ramacandra! O my Lord Ramacandra!’ But the yavanas also chant, ‘ha rama, ha rama!’ Just see their good fortune! Namacarya Haridasa Thakura, the authority on the chanting of the holy name, said, “The chanting of the Lord’s holy name to indicate something other than the Lord is an instance of namabhasa. Even when the holy name is chanted in this way, its transcendental power is not destroyed. Even a mleccha who is being killed by the tusk of a boar and who cries in distress again and again, “ha rama, ha rama” attains liberation. What then to speak of those who chant the holy name with veneration and faith?’ Ajamila was a great sinner during his life, but at the time of death he accidentally called for his youngest son, whose name was Narayana, and the attendants of Lord Visnu came to relieve him from the bonds of Yamaraja, the superintendent of death.

(Sri Caitanya-caritamrta - Antya 3.51-57)

Srila Prabhupada:

The mahatmas are always ready to render such service to the Lord with great determination. In this regard His Divine Grace Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura once made this comment in a lecture:

“The neophyte Vaishnava devotees’ ringing the bell even once during worship of the Deity of the Supreme Lord is a million times more valuable, spiritually and otherwise, than the charitable fruitive workers building many hospitals, feeding thousands of the poor, or building homes, or even the empirical philosophers’ Vedic studies, meditation, austerities, and penances.”

(Renunciation Through Wisdom)

These are the Bhagavata. There is no comparison. There is no literature throughout the universe like Srimad-Bhagavatam. There is no comparison. There is no competition. Every word is for the good of the human society. Every word, each and every word. Therefore we stress so much in the book distribution. Somehow or other, if the book goes in one hand, he will be benefited. At least he will see, “Oh, they have taken so much price. Let me see what is there.” If he reads one sloka, his life will be successful. If one sloka, one word. This is such nice things.

(Lecture – Los Angeles, January 1974)

[suchandra]

 

HG Srutadava Prabhu:My faith in ISKCON is almost finished, and my faith in Prabhupada and Krishna is slipping.

 

This should be examined carefully: "Prabhupada made mistakes and empowered the wrong people and those who followed Prabhupada became corrupt and remained impure."

If we look more close you will find that the real cause was that all these disciples who deviated were not following the rules - but had sweared the oath at the sannyasa ceremony, first initiation ceremony, second initiation ceremony, wedding ceremony, to follow.

They signed a contract and later committed breach of the agreement.

But because they kept silent, let's say a sannyasi like Bhavananada, 1978, did he tell that he doesn't follow the four regs what he promised at his initiation? Never! So, all these deviants kept silent and the rest believed that because these people kept silent they have to be considered as Prabhupada's disciples. But how can you be a disciple when you have sweared off the principles? Pretty much the same like abuse of a position anywhere else. How can you call a police chief, police chief when the guy performs criminal activities? But this is the intelligence of people, for them this is still a police chief, "our police chief is in prison". At least deviant disciples should have admitted the truth that they don't follow the regs of brahminical live and resign their position. The opposite is fact when even prominent disciples like SDG say today, "since 1978, as a young sannyasi, I was in love with Pranada Dasi but because I'm a guru, I demonstrate strength of character and don't accept disciples anymore."

And ISKCON will comment, just see this kind of honesty is real Vaishnava, let me become his disciple.

[Kulapavana]

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by krsna

HG Srutadava Prabhu:My faith in ISKCON is almost finished, and my faith in Prabhupada and Krishna is slipping.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

 

This should be examined carefully: "Prabhupada made mistakes and empowered the wrong people and those who followed Prabhupada became corrupt and remained impure."

 

Prabhu, the main problem in such situations IMO is that Iskcon devotees developed a naive and completely mythological view of Prabhupada and these painful issues are not discussed in an honest and realistic fashion among ourselves.

 

Srila Prabhupada was a great devotee of Krsna, a true Vaishnava acharya, but that does not mean that everything he did was absolutely right, and that everything he said was absolutely true. The facts simply do not bear out such naive notions.

 

Prabhupada was not a very good judge of people's character, for example. Why? Primarily because in his tremendous faith in Krsna and the power of the holy Name he tended to underestimate his disciples deep conditioning. He thought that by giving young ambitious people sannyasa they will "rise to the occasion". Well, it did not happen in most cases, and it created a huge problem for his organization. A "saffron mafia" was created even as he was still present. In the end he realized his mistake and decided to abolish sannyasa. It was rather late for that... Anybody who thinks that giving sannyasa to a young, power hungry homosexual like Kirtanananda was a good move, should really stop and think about it for a moment. Let me say it again, Prabhupada did that because he had such a strong faith in the process of Krsna consciousness.

 

Prabhupada surrounded himself with very questionable people and he ceded a lot of power to them. His autocratic way of management was adopted throughout the movement and ultimately destroyed the movement's purity and devotees faith in it. It is unfortunate that so few devotees have the guts to call things as they are.

 

People lose faith not because bad things happen, but because they dont understand WHY they happen, or what to do in order to stop them from happening. You cant keep feeding people lies forever. Sooner or later they will wake up.

 

I have not lost faith in Prabhupada or Krsna consciousness because I never believed in Iskcon's fairytales.

[cbrahma]

Well I hate to say it, but what an authoritarian system inherits besides power is reponsibility.

When Prabhupada was here there was a modicum of accountability. Yes that's the key word - accountability.

He didn't have enough longevity to see the organizational problems to the end. He set himself a humanly impossible task. He was spiritually powerful and transferred that shakti to immature disciples.

The program was simple - the morning program, devotional service,sankirtana during the day, and an evening program.

The practical issues of governance and maintenance should not have been so vexing. Karmis have solved those problems over and over again.

The first thing these rascals did was seize control. Appoint themselves as a totalitarian government in the name of Prabhupada as GBC without, and there is the word again, accountability.

For God's sake, give dedicated disciples health insurance, some retirement consideration - after all this time you'd think if the so-called authorities really cared about the Vaisnavas they are ruling they could have mustered that little thing instead of expanding their infrastructure with million dollar temples and glamorous cultural centers.

God knows they have the money, especially since they have marketed themselves as Hindu.

[suchandra]

 

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-right: 3ex; padding-left: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">Originally Posted by krsna

HG Srutadava Prabhu:My faith in ISKCON is almost finished, and my faith in Prabhupada and Krishna is slipping.

</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

 

 

Prabhu, the main problem in such situations IMO is that Iskcon devotees developed a naive and completely mythological view of Prabhupada and these painful issues are not discussed in an honest and realistic fashion among ourselves.

 

Srila Prabhupada was a great devotee of Krsna, a true Vaishnava acharya, but that does not mean that everything he did was absolutely right, and that everything he said was absolutely true. The facts simply do not bear out such naive notions.

 

Prabhupada was not a very good judge of people's character, for example. Why? Primarily because in his tremendous faith in Krsna and the power of the holy Name he tended to underestimate his disciples deep conditioning. He thought that by giving young ambitious people sannyasa they will "rise to the occasion". Well, it did not happen in most cases, and it created a huge problem for his organization. A "saffron mafia" was created even as he was still present. In the end he realized his mistake and decided to abolish sannyasa. It was rather late for that... Anybody who thinks that giving sannyasa to a young, power hungry homosexual like Kirtanananda was a good move, should really stop and think about it for a moment. Let me say it again, Prabhupada did that because he had such a strong faith in the process of Krsna consciousness.

 

Prabhupada surrounded himself with very questionable people and he ceded a lot of power to them. His autocratic way of management was adopted throughout the movement and ultimately destroyed the movement's purity and devotees faith in it. It is unfortunate that so few devotees have the guts to call things as they are.

 

People lose faith not because bad things happen, but because they dont understand WHY they happen, or what to do in order to stop them from happening. You cant keep feeding people lies forever. Sooner or later they will wake up.

 

I have not lost faith in Prabhupada or Krsna consciousness because I never believed in Iskcon's fairytales.

Keeping silent means to agree, looks like you're right and the majority also considers Prabhupada as making mistakes. Could be however, when you say, that for you Prabhupada still was, "a great devotee of Krsna, a true Vaishnava acharya", that others say, why? If he made mistakes like, "surrounded himself with very questionable people", then why should his books be considered as perfect? And this is what probably happened already in big style, people reject Prabhupada because he accepted people as his disciples who didnt abide to their promise given at the initiation ceremony.

What raises the question, would it have been better if Prabhupada would have stayed in Vrindavan and never came to New York?

[Kulapavana]

 

Keeping silent means to agree, looks like you're right and the majority also considers Prabhupada as making mistakes. Could be however, when you say, that for you Prabhupada still was, "a great devotee of Krsna, a true Vaishnava acharya", that others say, why? If he made mistakes like, "surrounded himself with very questionable people", then why should his books be considered as perfect? And this is what probably happened already in big style, people reject Prabhupada because he accepted people as his disciples who didnt abide to their promise given at the initiation ceremony.

What raises the question, would it have been better if Prabhupada would have stayed in Vrindavan and never came to New York?

 

Prabhupada himself admitted to making mistakes - the very idea that you must be "perfect in every way" in order to be considered a Vaishnava acharya is part of the Iskcon myth. Prabhupada defined acharya as one who teaches KC in a grand way by his practical example - and he is certainly that.

 

are his books perfect? in what way would you define perfection? to me, their perfection lies in the fact that they have helped lead millions of people to Krsna.

 

and I am eternaly indebted to Prabhupada for coming to the West from Vrindavan. That debt is my primary reason for staying and serving in greater Iskcon all these years, despite many reasons to abandon that sanga.

[seamusjcarroll]

"People lose faith not because bad things happen, but because they dont understand WHY they happen, or what to do in order to stop them from happening. You cant keep feeding people lies forever. Sooner or later they will wake up."

 

dear prabhu my thoughts are that , in this world we have been dealt , some heavy lessons , iskon is like a hospital , there are so many movements , trying to convince us to take there medicine , for me the only one that makes sence is bhakti yoga , prabhupada cure is faultless, but we as patients are full of faults , but like any one who is sick , they usaully know if there are getting better , i can blame others for my life ,but it is off no use , time place and circumstance is the frame work of any moment, without prabhupada i would of never of overcome the demons of my childhood , so many iskon members have suffered at the hands of other sick patients of iskon , kama trauma , while being fortunate to hear krishnas name , my own kama trauma , was certainly going to kill me , and has killed many around me , mainly due to addiction and a deep routed death wish , now i see my traumatic childhood as good kama , mainly because i have learnt inpossible lessons ,and even though far from pure , i find my heart soft , because off prabhupadas instruction, as apposed to biter , because of the sence off great loss, what i have gained far out ways the trauma and loss, i see it all as a kind of training , so as to learn new skills that i can use in the world , this makes me think "where is the cure in iskon " not the fault , ei how have you advanced, and how , in what way , i would love to be able to go to one of iskon temples and have the choice to serve prabhupada , but instead , i come up against , who is your guru , and political in fighting , same with gaudiya math , these days im more inclined to think of prabhupada as my instructing guru wheather people agree or not , and the thought of accepting some other guru , the same as giving up my intelligience to lies and duplicity ,my wish is to be encouraged , but where do i go , i do not want to change doctors, but i don't like the hospital, where to find shelter , prabhupada and krishna and bhakti prem for sure , or here on this wide world web,posting my rambling thoughts, i'm reaching out for krishnas love , and i believe all of you are doing the same, at least i like to believe so , jai rahde

[suchandra]

 

In what way would you define perfection? to me, their perfection lies in the fact that they have helped lead millions of people to Krsna.

 

For you this perfection may be visible, but you easily find yourself in that situation that you have to accept with this understanding that Prabhupada made mistakes, that others say, where's the limit, why rise at 3.30 am? If Prabhupada wrongly gave sannyasa why Westerners should rise at 3.30, etc., etc., so many other instructions suddenly become questionable also?

Below Prabhupada says, no, you gave that promise, therefore you can't disobey.

 

Prabhupada: "You promise with..., before the Deity. Krsna is not different, so when the initiation takes place we promise so many things. But if we do not follow, if we do not keep our promise, that is a great fault. If you, by chance, by mistake, you violate the regulative principle, that is excused, but if willingly, if you go on committing sinful life -- so just like in the Churches they go to confess and again begin -- that kind of business will not help you. That kind of business will not help you. Now I have confessed, now I begin new chapter of sinful life. Again I shall confess. Krsna is not so fool that you can cheat Him by this process. No, that is not possible. You can be executing the process of your advancement; unwillingly if you commit some mistake, that will be excused. That is said in the Bhagavad-gita, api cet su-duracaro bhajate mam ananya-bhak sadhur eva sa mantavyah. Sometimes we take shelter of this verse, that api cet su-duracaro, "However sinful you might, may be," bhajate mam ananya-bhak, "if he is fully engaged in My service..." But this word is very important. One cannot be fully engaged in the service of Krsna unless he is purified. Yesam tv anta-gatam papam jananam punya-karmanam [bg. 7.28]. One who is completely free from reaction of sinful life and is always engaged in pious activities, such person can be Krsna conscious. So it is..., it is not that one is a debauch, at the same time a Krsna conscious. That is a contradictory. It cannot be. If he is actually Krsna conscious, he is cannot be debauch. And if he is debauch, then he is not Krsna conscious. Two things cannot go parallel."

74/06/29 Melbourne, Bhagavad-gita 7.1

[Kulapavana]

 

... where to find shelter , prabhupada and krishna and bhakti prem for sure , or here on this wide world web,posting my rambling thoughts, i'm reaching out for krishnas love , and i believe all of you are doing the same, at least i like to believe so , jai rahde

 

Jaya Radhe! and so it is like that... yes, it is a hospital. But as in every hospital rules must be made in our society in order to fulfill it's purpose:

 

to cure people

 

so, are the people getting cured in Iskcon?

 

if not, then there might be specific problems in the hospital that cause such failures, such as unqualified doctors, or people not washing their hands after going to the bathroom. It is not enough to simpy say: "this is hospital, people will die here" and shrugg your shoulders. no, we need to address specific issues to make sure the hospital is actually WORKING.

 

dont tell me "oh, its a hospital" when the doctors and nurses dont know what they are doing. who would want to check into such a hospital?

 

Not many people join Iskcon nowadays because they can see how few patients are actually cured here.

[cbrahma]

Well if ISKCON is a hospital then its the patients treating the patients, more likely infecting each other.

 

Luke 4:23 (King James Version):

 

 

And he said unto them, Ye will surely say unto me this proverb, Physician, heal thyself: whatsoever we have heard done in Capernaum, do also here in thy country.

 

 

[Kulapavana]

 

lunatics running the asylum

 

 

because there are no kshatriyas to take the power - vaishyas and sudras rule the society

 

because there are no brahmanas to speak the truth and raise voices against the lies and abuses - vaishyas and sudras continue their shenanigans with impunity

 

they are not lunatics - they know very well what they are doing.

[cbrahma]

 

because there are no kshatriyas to take the power - vaishyas and sudras rule the society

 

because there are no brahmanas to speak the truth and raise voices against the lies and abuses - vaishyas and sudras continue their shenanigans with impunity

 

they are not lunatics - they know very well what they are doing.

If the insanity is lording it over - they are lunatics.

[seamusjcarroll]

you make me smile" lunatics or demonic , what is the sulution , i live here to and see , what to do , somone must have some affective ideas , or are we doomed , that just can't be what about golden age 100000 years or just bubbling in the stew

[suchandra]

 

you make me smile" lunatics or demonic , what is the sulution , i live here to and see , what to do , somone must have some affective ideas , or are we doomed , that just can't be what about golden age 100000 years or just bubbling in the stew

Well, Prabhupada said 1956, after a lapse of 50 years.

 

"By the grace of the illusory energy of Godhead we are now engaged more and more in the dangerous type of work in this machine-age. The machine-age is the result of dangerous type of work. When we leave aside the culture of spiritualism, we are entangled in the dangerous type of work. Nobody can live for a moment without work and therefore when finer elements are made to stop working, gross materialism occupies the devil's brain. The result is that we have now come to the age of nuclear weapons for the destruction of material civilization. By the law of nature, the nuclear weapons have been produced for crushing the result of blind-materialism. The peace move of different powers of the world, by the false gesture of suspending the experiments of dangerous weapons--may be very much pleasing to the comparatively weak nations--but these temporary peace-moves will prove useless by the law of material nature. When the dangerous weapons are produced, they must be utilised for annihilation of blind materialism by the plan of the Daivi Maya or the external energy of Godhead. The problem can be solved when they are taught about their spiritual identity.

The soul-killing civilization is progressively taking to the dangerous type of work by invention of huge mechanical means. The illusory energy is creating this atmosphere for blind materialism and on the other hand she is arranging for their destruction also. Such opposite methods are called illusory energy. The human energy is thus misused for breaking the same thing which is produced by the same energy. It is something like blazing the fire and extinguish it by pouring water simultaneously--a sign of insanity or spoiling the valuable human energy meant for spiritual culture. History has been repeated so many times and many many leaders of materialism like Napoleon, Hitler and others now remain in name only without any sign of the material progress planned by them. De-Stalinisation has already begun in Russia. Nobody is enjoying the result of civilization created by atheists like Ravana, Kansa, Aurangzeb, Napoleon or Hitler. Everything is in oblivion and this teaches us the lesson that the materialistic plans of the present age will also meet with the same fate after a lapse of 50 years. Therefore blind materialism does not bring in any permanent relief in the world."

 

 

(Srila Prabhupada B.T.G. Article 1956 "Blind Materialism" )

[Murali_Mohan_das]

I've said any number of times that I see Srila Prabhupada as a general in a war taking calculated risks, knowing full well that there might be heavy losses amongst his subordinates.

 

Any perception of Srila Prabhupada's mission having been a failure is a product of our narrow, limited vision.

 

Srila Prabhupada spearheaded a wave that made "Hare Krishna" a household word and paved the way for all subsequent distributors of the Holy Name.

 

As the first wave subsides and ebbs, another wave gains momentum to push even further inland and overflood the hearts of all.

[Vedesu]

 

I've said any number of times that I see Srila Prabhupada as a general in a war taking calculated risks, knowing full well that there might be heavy losses amongst his subordinates.

 

Any perception of Srila Prabhupada's mission having been a failure is a product of our narrow, limited vision.

 

Srila Prabhupada spearheaded a wave that made "Hare Krishna" a household word and paved the way for all subsequent distributors of the Holy Name.

 

As the first wave subsides and ebbs, another wave gains momentum to push even further inland and overflood the hearts of all.

[seamusjcarroll]

sounds appocalyptic , what 50 years and where are we now , if mans fate is determined already , we all gonna die unless we can hide some where, or is it rapture that saves us , i like to think , that prabhupadas mercy in the west came to squeeze out the rascal who can save us all , where yoga maya wakes some one up , and a jesus or a bhuda or is it krishna, as syamsunder with some of arjuna's lot pop out , before we all burn , in rahda kund when you ask people what they are doing they say waiting for krishna to come , not doom