What should one do if a diksa-guru is not always present???

[Beggar]

 

I wasn't quoting Gurudev, anyways, regarding "being a fanatic for guru". Have you ever heard of him saying such a thing?

 

In 1996 in his room in Soquel he said, (I was three feet away) " being a fanatic for guru is not a bad thing, it is a good thing" and then he laughed. I cringed insided because I knew that many neophyte followers would take it the wrong way, and history has come to prove me correct.

[Kulapavana]

I must be a spiritual prostitute because I like Srila Prabhupada, Sridhara Maharaja, Puri Maharaja, Narayana Maharaja, Narasingha Maharaja, and to a lesser extent a few of other great Vaishnavas. I hope to become a real prostitute in Dvaraka leela some day

 

well... my real aspiration is to be a cow in Goloka Vrindavan guarding the forest hideouts of the right hand gopis, but I dont think I have what it takes...

 

Seriously though... these guru wars are too much...

[Beggar]

 

 

Seriously though... these guru wars are too much...

 

Look how an uttama bhakta can take everything including "guru wars" to the level of Hari katha, like Srila Sridhar Maharaj in Sri Guru and His Grace. If one enters into his mood (as far as possible) we will see that he remained blissfull although engaged in the "guru wars" topic. Nitai Gaura Hai bol!

[Kulapavana]

 

Look how an uttama bhakta can take everything including "guru wars" to the level of Hari katha, like Srila Sridhar Maharaj in Sri Guru and His Grace. If one enters into his mood (as far as possible) we will see that he remained blissfull although engaged in the "guru wars" topic. Nitai Gaura Hai bol!

 

For me Sri Guru and His Grace is primarily about guru-tattva and Sridhara Maharaja seems more balanced in this area than Srila Prabhupada, who made a lot of very cutting and possibly quite emotional remarks on this subject to his disciples.

 

Guru topics are very private in nature, but these days devotees sensationalize them not much different than National Enquirer covering the lives of rich and famous. Every fresh gossip and off-hand remark by the star makes the front page, no matter how absurd and out of context it may be.

 

I like the "old school" approach, where one is advised to hide his guru and hide his istha-deva. Our false ego feeds even on the inherently spiritual matters, turning them sour and unpalatable to others.

[Beggar]

 

For me Sri Guru and His Grace is primarily about guru-tattva and Sridhara Maharaja seems more balanced in this area than Srila Prabhupada, who made a lot of very cutting and possibly quite emotional remarks on this subject to his disciples.

 

Guru topics are very private in nature, but these days devotees sensationalize them not much different than National Enquirer covering the lives of rich and famous. Every fresh gossip and off-hand remark by the star makes the front page, no matter how absurd and out of context it may be.

 

I like the "old school" approach, where one is advised to hide his guru and hide his istha-deva. Our false ego feeds even on the inherently spiritual matters, turning them sour and unpalatable to others.

 

Koti, koti dittos!

[Vikram Ramsundar]

Kulapavana and Beggar Prabhus,

 

My prostrate obeisances to both of you! It is gratifying indeed to have senior as well as emotionally and intellectually mature devotees like yourselves on these forums. I especially appreciate the non-sectarian and inclusivist spin that you two try as far as possible to give to your messages. As the eager-to-learn "youthful" 34-year-old that I am, I honestly experience immense intellectual pleasure perusing your comments.

 

Your servant,

VR

[Kulapavana]

 

As the eager-to-learn "youthful" 34-year-old that I am, I honestly experience immense intellectual pleasure perusing your comments.

 

 

You make me blush, prabhu. I'm not worthy.

 

Whatever I learned from Sri Guru, through the multitude of His manfestations, is only due to His mercy. How I gained that mercy, I do not know.

[Vikram Ramsundar]

 

You make me blush, prabhu. I'm not worthy.

 

Whatever I learned from Sri Guru, through the multitude of His manfestations, is only due to His mercy. How I gained that mercy, I do not know.

 

That's your genuinely humble self speaking, Kulapavanaji. I wish for the same grace and mercy which Sri Guru has so copiously showered upon you.

[Beggar]

Sri Sri Guru Gauranga jayatau!

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

My source is The Bhaktivedanta Memorial Library, where the Sri Sri Prapanna-jivanamrtam is in a pdf file that is not locked. They just somehow scanned in or copied the book. I just looked at the book published by the Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math and it reads exactly the same,"new isles".

Sorry to return and be a fly in your ointment. I assure you I pray I can limit myself to this one response.

 

What do you mean by "locked"? While the PDF is 15MB, this file seems to load just fine:

http://scsmath.net/math/docs/Prapanna-Jivanamritam.pdf

 

The book has a clearly stated copyright. If the BVML does not have permission to post it on the Internet, they are in violation of the copyright.

 

Why do you not link to the truly official PDF and state from what page your quote is derived?

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

In 1996 in his room in Soquel he said, (I was three feet away) " being a fanatic for guru is not a bad thing, it is a good thing" and then he laughed. I cringed insided because I knew that many neophyte followers would take it the wrong way, and history has come to prove me correct.

 

Seems like you don't know what "fanatic" means (I didn't either until I looked it up):

 

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/fanatic

 

 

fanatic

 

<form name="entry" method="post" action="/dictionary"> One entry found.

 

<table valign="top" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td> fanatic </td></tr></tbody></table> <input name="book" value="Dictionary" type="hidden"> <input name="quer" value="fanatic" type="hidden"> <input name="list" value="1,0,0,0;fanatic=378186" type="hidden"> </form>

<dl><dt class="hwrd">Main Entry:</dt><dd class="hwrd">fa·nat·ic </dd><dt class="pron">Pronunciation:</dt><dd class="pron"> \fə-ˈna-tik\ </dd><dt class="var">Variant(s):</dt><dd class="var">or fa·nat·i·cal \-ti-kəl\</dd><dt class="func">Function:</dt><dd class="func">adjective </dd><dt class="ety">Etymology:</dt><dd class="ety">Latin fanaticus inspired by a deity, frenzied, from fanum temple — more at feast</dd><dt class="date">Date:</dt><dd class="date">1550</dd></dl> : marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion ....ey're fanatic about politics>

— fanatic noun

— fa·nat·i·cal·ly \fə-ˈna-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adverb

— fa·nat·i·cal·ness \-kəl-nəs\ noun

 

 

 

There's nothing in there about party spirit or chosing sides.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

I think I figured out what you meant by "locked". On the SCSMath site, the PDF doesn't contain text which can be copied since it was scanned in and not OCR'ed (Optical Character Recognition).

 

If I might point out there is a slightly more "official" HTML source available at Muralidhar Prabhu's web site:

http://www.mandala.com.au/prapanna/index.html

 

Considering that Muralidhar Prabhu is an associate of Srila Govinda Maharaja, you might consider quoting (and citing your quotes) from his site. I assume Muralidhar has Gurudeva's blessing to post the text.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

In 1996 in his room in Soquel he said, (I was three feet away) " being a fanatic for guru is not a bad thing, it is a good thing" and then he laughed. I cringed insided because I knew that many neophyte followers would take it the wrong way, and history has come to prove me correct.

In any case, why bother getting out of your warm bed early and elbowing your way into Srila Gurudeva's veranda and sit at his feet if you're not going to leave your speculating, calculating, second-guessing, knowing-better-than-the acharya mind at the door with your shoes???

 

Huh, dear step-father? Remember, I was content to let you have your "smug" victory on the internet and leave it at that. You just had to come rub my face in it up at the Ashram last night as I was trying to honor a little prasadam, didn't you?

 

Gokara!!!!

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Why not just shoot me and put me out of my misery.

 

 

In any case, why bother getting out of your warm bed early and elbowing your way into Srila Gurudeva's veranda and sit at his feet if you're not going to leave your speculating, calculating, second-guessing, knowing-better-than-the acharya mind at the door with your shoes???

 

Huh, dear step-father? Remember, I was content to let you have your "smug" victory on the internet and leave it at that. You just had to come rub my face in it up at the Ashram last night as I was trying to honor a little prasadam, didn't you?

 

Gokara!!!!

[Kulapavana]

 

In any case, why bother getting out of your warm bed early and elbowing your way into Srila Gurudeva's veranda and sit at his feet if you're not going to leave your speculating, calculating, second-guessing, knowing-better-than-the acharya mind at the door with your shoes???

 

why do devotees so often have this "all or nothing" attitude? Arjuna knew Krsna to be the Supreme Personality of Godhead yet he still posed many probing questions. if you say "he did that only for our benefit" then the answer is "yes, so that we know how to properly inquire even from an established authority".

 

and how about all of those "magical transformations"? one day you are just a nice senior devotee, few days later you are an acharya whose every pronouncement is not subject to second-guessing or critical review? Anybody who thinks like that is not very realistic.

[Beggar]

 

Seems like you don't know what "fanatic" means (I didn't either until I looked it up):

 

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/fanatic

 

 

 

There's nothing in there about party spirit or chosing sides.

Everyone makes choices at practically every moment and this is the nature of our human condition. Acceptance automatically implies rejection. If I accept Repulicanism I will vote in that manner and by definition reject the canditates of the Democratic Party and visa versa. But this example comes from the sphere of mundane politics, a conception of life that aspiring Vaisnavas are to at least attempt to reject. Now you have discovered the definition of fanatic to which I am referring, "marked by excessive enthusiasm and often intense uncritical devotion". It is safe to assume that the persons who wrote this definition were not referring to non-calculative devotion, jnana-sunya-bhakti. So "intense uncritical devotion" means blind following. Now one may object and give the example that if the guru says that the rope is snake and so on, but I this is not to what I am objecting. I am objecting to taking the words of the guru in a superficial way without taking the time to try to understand what he is actually speaking about. The next step is to run with our own misconceptions of the guru's words without corroborating his words with sadhu and sastra. What I believe that Srila Govinda Maharaj meant is something that you already quoted, "Etymology: Latin fanaticus inspired by a deity". So what he must mean is, to be a fanatic for the guru is to be very inspired by the Krsna conception as it is coming from that sadhu. My fear was that such a statement would be misconstrued by some neophytes as an excuse to abuse others.

<dl><dt class="ety">

</dt><dd class="ety">

</dd></dl>

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Thanks for your feedback. I'm no devotee.

 

Gurudev has complete faith in Sri Krishna. By that qualification alone, it is in my best interest to accept anything and everything he says as if it came directly from the mouth of the Lord (despite the chatterings of my mind).

 

I'm also not interested in a discussion on this point. With all due respect, feel free to carry it on with yourself (or with Raghav--er Beggar (he knows who's a neophyte and who's an advanced Vaishnava)).

 

 

why do devotees so often have this "all or nothing" attitude? Arjuna knew Krsna to be the Supreme Personality of Godhead yet he still posed many probing questions. if you say "he did that only for our benefit" then the answer is "yes, so that we know how to properly inquire even from an established authority".

 

and how about all of those "magical transformations"? one day you are just a nice senior devotee, few days later you are an acharya whose every pronouncement is not subject to second-guessing or critical review? Anybody who thinks like that is not very realistic.

[Vedesu]

 

Huh, dear step-father? Remember, I was content to let you have your "smug" victory on the internet and leave it at that. You just had to come rub my face in it up at the Ashram last night as I was trying to honor a little prasadam, didn't you? Gokara!!!!

 

Last night? The post you are replying to was made 5 days ago. Really, you seem to be on some sort of sectarian campaign here, Murali. First, you object (at least its seems that you did) to those who appreciate and quote Srila Sridhara Maharaja's words on this forum who aren't official members of your sanga:

 

 

..but certainly, those with the *greatest* appreciation for Srila Sridhar Maharaja do. The rest are honey-bees, dabblers, or spiritual prostitutes (wear the description that fits best).

 

Then you ask:

 

 

I wasn't quoting Gurudev, anyways, regarding "being a fanatic for guru". Have you ever heard of him saying such a thing?

 

To which Beggar replied that he had, in person. And he qualified what he heard, suggesting that it could be misinterpreted by neophyte (hint: sectarian) followers, and that history has proven him right. IMHO, you have done nothing to disprove this notion.

 

One would think that you would be overjoyed that Beggar has such great appreciation for Srila Sridhara Maharaja, and even enough appreciation to come visit your Gurudeva and hear from him personally. Yet your attitude here seems to indicate that he must be a "card-carrying member", otherwise, he's a "spiritual prostitute." What a shame. You're doing nothing to break down the sectarian walls which have divided and plagued the various Gaudiya missions for decades.

 

I have read and appreciated many of Srila Sridhara Maharaja's books over the years and his mood always struck me as one of being humble and harmonizing. But perhaps you have a different perspective, it would seem.

[Beggar]

On post #40 I wrote,

Then what are you doing exchanging ideas on a website with "mixed company"...

 

 

You're doing nothing to break down the sectarian walls which have divided and plagued the various Gaudiya missions for decades.

 

 

When certain disciples of Srila Prabhupada objected to their godbrothers going over to Navadvipa to hear from Srila Sridhar Maharaja, those objecting referred to many quotes of Srila Prabhupada. When asked about this Srila Sridhar Maharaj said [paraphrased by me], "when a boy is three years old he is told not to go outside the gate of the father's house, but if when he is grown up he continues to take that instruction then it would be seen as quite foolish." So the gates or walls are there for a reason in a particular stage. My point to Murali Mohan Prabhu was that by coming to this forum, he had already left the gates and different rules of etiquette will apply here. So even gates or walls have their use in Krsna's service, yukta vairagya.

[theist]

 

Toying with the (mostly) intellectually puny jackasses here certainly isn't doing anything to make me more humble.

 

So don't toy with us. There are three ways of relating to others in spiritual life.

 

Listen to and question those you consider more advanced.

 

Share what you have learned about Krsna conwsciousness and let others share with you what they have learned and develop more intimate friendships with those on the same level. Devotees on this same level are also able to correct us and accept correction from ourselves, for our mutual improvement.

 

Seek out and teach those that are junior to us if they wish to hear.

 

"toying" will always be a problem for us. You like to joust in this way as do I and it will never be fruitful for either of us. I am also trying to free myself of this bad habit.

 

IOW what I am saying is I have learned the problem lies within myself and antagonists here or elsewhere are just a secondary issue.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Thank you for your compassion, Theist.

 

I'll do my best to follow your heart-felt advice.

 

 

So don't toy with us. There are three ways of relating to others in spiritual life.

 

Listen to and question those you consider more advanced.

 

Share what you have learned about Krsna conwsciousness and let others share with you what they have learned and develop more intimate friendships with those on the same level. Devotees on this same level are also able to correct us and accept correction from ourselves, for our mutual improvement.

 

Seek out and teach those that are junior to us if they wish to hear.

 

"toying" will always be a problem for us. You like to joust in this way as do I and it will never be fruitful for either of us. I am also trying to free myself of this bad habit.

 

IOW what I am saying is I have learned the problem lies within myself and antagonists here or elsewhere are just a secondary issue.

[Beggar]

 

Share what you have learned about Krsna conwsciousness...

Excuse me but did you just say Krsna conwsciousness?

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Excuse me but did you just say Krsna conwsciousness?

 

Tears of a clown? I'm glad you haven't lost your sense of humor, Pita-ji.

 

Now, if I could just remember where I left mine...

[Murali_Mohan_das]

To be clear. I think of Beggar, Kulapavana, Vedesu and most of the others to be more honey-bees than anything else.

 

I'm still *aspiring* for the elevated position of spiritual prostitute. I'd like to *something* spiritual.

[Beggar]

 

Now, if I could just remember where I left mine...

Then think, where did you leave it?

 

 

 

 

"I'm trying to think but nothing happens" - Curly Mohan (sometimes quoted, "I'm trying to chant but nothing happens")

(...And, why do they call me Curly?) (What happened to his sika? Answer: He doesn't need one, he's from Whatsika Avenue.)