Merry Krishna and a happy Hare Rama!

[Svarupa]

 

Hmmm...on the other thread, all the quotes are from the Kabbalah and such. None (that I saw) are from the Torah, Itself.

 

Do all mainstream Jews accept the Kabbalah?

 

Murali Mohan prabhu, Kabbalah refers to a set of beliefs and practices that supplement traditional Jewish interpretations of the Bible and religious observances. It is held authoritative by most Orthodox Jews, although traditionally limited to married Talmud scholars. Kabbalah is considered by many Orthodox Jews to be part of the study of Torah, specifically the study of the inner meaning of Torah.

For one who understands Judaism, the study of the inner secrets of Torah (Sod) is called Kabbalah. The idea of reincarnation, called gilgulis, is found in much Yiddish literature among Ashkenazi Jews. It is also believed that some human souls could end up being reincarnated into non-human bodies.

According to Jewish beliefs, the intimate understanding and mastery of the Kabbalah brings one spiritually closer to God and enriches one's experience of Jewish sacred texts and law however, the Kabbalah became secretive, forbidden and esoteric to Judaism for two and a half millennia and this is why many outsiders, like European Christians, never heard of the Jewish reincarnation beliefs. Even the term reincarnating is today not used by many orthodox Jews who have their own word ‘gilgulis’, which in English means reincarnation anyway. Many Rabbis today refer to people reincarnating (gilgulis) in successive lives. The belief of reincarnation is actually very common in mainstream Judaism. Most Orthodox Jews have a prayer asking for forgiveness for one's sins that one may have committed in this gilgul or a previous life.

[tackleberry]

 

Murali Mohan prabhu, Kabbalah refers to a set of beliefs and practices that supplement traditional Jewish interpretations of the Bible and religious observances. It is held authoritative by most Orthodox Jews, although traditionally limited to married Talmud scholars. Kabbalah is considered by many Orthodox Jews to be part of the study of Torah, specifically the study of the inner meaning of Torah.

For one who understands Judaism, the study of the inner secrets of Torah (Sod) is called Kabbalah. The idea of reincarnation, called gilgulis, is found in much Yiddish literature among Ashkenazi Jews. It is also believed that some human souls could end up being reincarnated into non-human bodies.

According to Jewish beliefs, the intimate understanding and mastery of the Kabbalah brings one spiritually closer to God and enriches one's experience of Jewish sacred texts and law however, the Kabbalah became secretive, forbidden and esoteric to Judaism for two and a half millennia and this is why many outsiders, like European Christians, never heard of the Jewish reincarnation beliefs. Even the term reincarnating is today not used by many orthodox Jews who have their own word ‘gilgulis’, which in English means reincarnation anyway. Many Rabbis today refer to people reincarnating (gilgulis) in successive lives. The belief of reincarnation is actually very common in mainstream Judaism. Most Orthodox Jews have a prayer asking for forgiveness for one's sins that one may have committed in this gilgul or a previous life.

 

Very informative, thanks a lot. Can you also tell me whether Jews believe that the souls always reincarnate in the same race, such as jews taking birth as jews, and so on? Do they believe jews are superior to other humans, and the chosen race? Some links and resources would help.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Thanks for clarifying. So, then, would you not consider Conservative Jews, say, to be "mainstream Jews"?

 

While it's exciting to learn that Judaism has some conception of reincarnation, it doesn't sound like that belief is as absolute as you initially represented it to be.

 

 

Murali Mohan prabhu, Kabbalah refers to a set of beliefs and practices that supplement traditional Jewish interpretations of the Bible and religious observances. It is held authoritative by most Orthodox Jews, although traditionally limited to married Talmud scholars. Kabbalah is considered by many Orthodox Jews to be part of the study of Torah, specifically the study of the inner meaning of Torah.

[theist]

 

Very informative, thanks a lot. Can you also tell me whether Jews believe that the souls always reincarnate in the same race, such as jews taking birth as jews, and so on? Do they believe jews are superior to other humans, and the chosen race? Some links and resources would help.

 

Yes this hits the nail on the head. They do not have a solid understanding of the soul. Several years ago I was speaking to a Rabbit that used to set up a table at UC campus. Turns out because my gtrandmother was Jewish I am considered by him as having a "Jewish soul" even though I never practiced anything Jewish in my life. As such I have the oppurtunity to be closer to God in heaven them non-Jewish souls. He even believed animals have souls but they have "animal souls".

 

They can't explain the process of reincarnation within the human species let alone how the soul can transmigrate from plant & animal life, up to the angelic and back again.

 

By coincidence I was reading a book on past life hynoptic regression last night ( Through Time Into Healing by Brian Weiss M.D.) and he mentioned how reincarnation was a common belief in the Jewish community up until 1800 -1850 when the general thought started by be taken over by so-call ed modern reasoning.

 

This is some little knowledge of the soul but still heavily covered in ahankara. Krsna conscious only recognizes "(...the true equality of all souls both in their happiness and distress. O' Arjuna."

[theist]

 

Where as Christ-mass is referring to Jesus and the celebration of his birth, I respect Jesus however, I am no longer interested in mundane materialist religions anymore,...

 

This is my point. Lord Jesus Christ is a person and not a mundane religion. Devotees should understand the difference.

[Svarupa]

In the Talmud, "gilgul neshamot" (i.e., reincarnation) is constantly mentioned. The term literally means "the judgment of the revolutions of the souls." In this view, people who had committed extraordinary sins were given an opportunity to return to life in order to set things right. More particularly, they were reincarnated in circumstances similar to those of their previous incarnation. Thus, Moses and Jethro, for example, were supposed to be the gilgulim of Cain and Abel.

Rabbi Manasseh Ben Israel (1604-1657), one of the most revered Rabbis in <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com<st1:place w:st=" /><st1:country-region w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Israel</st1:place></st1:country-region>, states in his book entitled Nishmat Hayyim:

"The belief or the doctrine of the transmigration of souls, is a firm and infallible dogma accepted by the whole assemblage of our church with one accord, so that there is none to be found who would dare to deny it ... Indeed, there is a great number of sages in Israel who hold firm to this doctrine so that they made it a dogma, a fundamental point of our religion. We are therefore in duty bound to obey and to accept this dogma with acclamation ... as the truth of it has been incontestably demonstrated by the Zohar, and all books of the Kabalists." (Nishmat Hayyim)

It is important to note that I am only continuing this subject because it can help the devotees of Krishna preach in the strong Christian influenced Countries, like the Bible belt of the American South, pointing out that because Jesus was a Jew, then he also believed in reincarnation.

We have to be careful here, as Prabhupada said, 'if one becomes too involved in trying to understand the Jewish or Christian faiths, then one will become a Jew or a Christian.

Frankly, out with the old and in with new (the original teachings of Veda Vysa) this is the beginning of a new age of Lord Caitanya. We already know we can take birth as a demigod, a human being of any race or colour, or in the ethereal body of a Yamadhuti or within the body of an insect, these are the facts. There is no really advanced knowledge in Judaism, Christianity or Islam, they have no scriptual explanation of Gods (Krishna's) beautifil bodily form or His Kingdom of Goloka.

 

Jesus said their are many rooms in his fathers manson yet new his audience were simple fishermen and could not understand the complete picture of Gods creation. Like in th story above about the young man praying to Jesus in the Church to be used in Gods plan and then becoming a devotee ofKrishna, one can be genuinly thankful to Jesus for directing one to the next level of devotional life, chanting Hare Krishna, engaging in devotional service and studing the vast Vedic texts, learning that 'God' has a name and beautiful form known as Sri Krishna

[Svarupa]

 

Very informative, thanks a lot. Can you also tell me whether Jews believe that the souls always reincarnate in the same race, such as jews taking birth as jews, and so on? Do they believe jews are superior to other humans, and the chosen race? Some links and resources would help.

 

 

We already know we can take birth as a demigod, a human being of any race or colour, or in the ethereal body of a Yamadhuti or within the body of an insect, these are the facts, the Jewish faith do not have an advanced undertanding of this as we have in the Vedic texts. Actually, there is no really advanced knowledge in Judaism, Christianity or Islam, they have no scriptual explanation of Gods (Krishna's) beautifil bodily form or His Kingdom of Goloka-Vrndavana

 

Jesus said their are many rooms in his fathers manson, yet new his audience of disciples were simple fishermen and new they could not understand the complete picture of Gods creation.

 

Like in the story above about the young man praying to Jesus in the Church to be used in Gods plan and then becoming a devotee of Krishna, one can be genuinly thankful to Jesus for directing one to the next level of devotional life, chanting Hare Krishna, engaging in devotional service and studing the vast Vedic texts, learning that 'God' has a name and beautiful form known as Sri Krishna and His eternal abode, or the Kingdom of God is called Goloka.

[gHari]

Svarupa, you should have just apologized and never done it again. That's all I care to say, or to hear. You can see me a sentimental fool if you like - that too is meaningless.

[Svarupa]

 

Svarupa, you should have just apologized and never done it again.

 

I was referring to the holiday period by saying Xmas, which is what it is called. Where as Christ-mass is referring to Jesus and the celebration of his birth, I respect Jesus however, I am no longer interested in mundane materialist religions anymore, that feast off the flesh of cows.

 

Your dedicated writting on these threads are important and very interesting reading

 

Hare Krishna

[Svarupa]

Ghari it is corrected, if you get my drift

 

 

Yes this hits the nail on the head. They do not have a solid understanding of the soul. Several years ago I was speaking to a Rabbit that used to set up a table at UC campus. Turns out because my gtrandmother was Jewish I am considered by him as having a "Jewish soul" even though I never practiced anything Jewish in my life. As such I have the oppurtunity to be closer to God in heaven them non-Jewish souls. He even believed animals have souls but they have "animal souls".

 

They can't explain the process of reincarnation within the human species let alone how the soul can transmigrate from plant & animal life, up to the angelic and back again.

 

By coincidence I was reading a book on past life hynoptic regression last night ( Through Time Into Healing by Brian Weiss M.D.) and he mentioned how reincarnation was a common belief in the Jewish community up until 1800 -1850 when the general thought started by be taken over by so-call ed modern reasoning.

 

This is some little knowledge of the soul but still heavily covered in ahankara. Krsna conscious only recognizes "(...the true equality of all souls both in their happiness and distress. O' Arjuna."

 

Interesting reading

[Beggar]

Picture of Woody Allen believing in reincarnation on a billboard,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[HerServant]

THE GREEK CHURCH

 

In the Greek Church the law of abstinence is designated by the term xerophagy in contradistinction to monophagy, signifying the law of fasting. In its strictest sense xerophagy bars all viands except bread, salt, water, fruits, and vegetables (St. Epiphanius, Expositio Fidei, xxii; Migne, P.G., XLII, col. 828; Apost. Const., V, xviii, ap. Migne, P.G., I, col. 889). On days of abstinence meat, fish, eggs, milk, cheese, oil, and wine are rigorously interdicted. This traditional custom of rigorous abstinence still binds the Greeks on all Wednesdays and Fridays, on all days of their Major Lent, including Saturdays and Sundays, except Palm Sunday, on which day oil, wine, and fish are now permitted, and on the vigils of Christmas and Epiphany. Xerophagy seems to have been obligatory only on these days. Another less severe form of abstinence, still common among the Greeks, prohibits the use of meat, eggs, milk, and sometimes fish on certain occasions. According to their present regime, the Greeks observe this mitigated form of abstinence during their Lent of the Apostles (i.e. from Monday after the feast of All Saints, celebrated on the first Sunday after Pentecost, until 29 June); during Mary's Lent (1-14 August); during Christmas Lent, or Advent (also called St. Philip's Lent, 15 November to 24 December); 29 August (commemoration of the Beheading of St. John Baptist) and on 14 September (feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross). The canonical regulations determining obligatory abstinence have suffered no substantial alteration during the lapse of many centuries. In its general outlines this legislation is the same for the Greek Church Uniat and non-Uniat. The Uniat Greek Church is not allowed to father any innovation without explicit authorization from the Holy See (Benedict XIV, Decret. Demandatam, # vi, in his Bullarium, I, 128, Venice ed., 1778). Though usage and dispensations have led the way to certain modifications, the canons covering this matter remain unchanged. Custom has made the use of wine and oil legitimate on xerophagy days. In many places fish is likewise allowed, except during the first and last week of their Major Lent. Goar (Euchologium, Venice, 1730, 175) says that the Greeks of his day were allowed by an unwritten law to eat fish, eggs, snails, and such-like viands on xerophagy days.

 

Innovations in the duration of the Greek penitential seasons have originated in usage. Thus arose their practice of spending the week preceding their Major Lent in minor abstinence, as a prelude to the more rigorous observance of the Lenten season (Nilles, Kalendarium, II, 36, Innsbruck, 1885; Vacant, Dict. de théol. cath., I, 264). This custom lapsed into desuetude, but the decrees of the Synod of Zamosc, 1720 (tit. xvi, Collect. Lacensis, II), show that the Ruthenians had again adopted it. The Melchites have reduced their xerophagy during Christmas Lent to fifteen days. The same tendency to minimize is found amongst the Ruthenians (Synod of Zamosc, loc. cit.). The Apostles' Lent counts no more than twelve days for the Melchites. Goar says that their Christmas Lent is reduced to seven days. Other alterations in these seasons have been made at various times in different places. The Greeks enjoy some relaxation of this obligation on a certain number of days during the year. Accordingly, when feasts solemnized in the Greek Church fall on ordinary Wednesdays and Fridays, or on days during their various Lenten seasons (Wednesdays and Fridays excepted), a complete or partial suspension of xerophagy takes place. The obligation of abstaining from flesh is withdrawn on Wednesdays and Fridays between Christmas and 4 January; whenever Epiphany falls on Wednesday or Friday; Wednesday and Friday during the week preceding the feast of the Exaltation of the Holy Cross; during the octaves of Easter and Pentecost. Some of the Greeks, especially the Melchites, hold that xerophagy does not bind from Easter to Pentecost [cf. Pilgrimage of Etheria (Peregrinatio Sylviae) ap. Duchesne, op. cit. 569]. In their partial suspension of the xerophagy the Greeks maintain the obligation of abstaining from flesh meat, but they countenance the use of such other viands as are ordinarily prohibited when the law is in full force. This mitigation finds application as often as the following festivals fall on Wednesdays or Fridays not included in their Lenten seasons, or any day (Wednesdays and Fridays excepted) during their Lenten seasons: 24 November, Feast of St. Philip; 21 November, Presentation of the Blessed Virgin Mary; 7 January, Commemoration of St. John Baptist; 2 February; Presentation of Christ in the Temple; 25 March, Annunciation of the Blessed Virgin Mary; 29 June, The Apostles; 6 August, Transfiguration, 15 August Assumption; and Palm Sunday. St. Basil's rule is followed by all monks and nuns in the Greek Church. Xerophagy is their general rule for penitential practices. The law of abstaining from meat admits no relaxation. The greater solemnities entitle them to use fish, eggs, milk, oil, and wine. Feasts of minor solemnity, falling on days other than Wednesday or Friday, admit fish, eggs, milk, oil, and wine, otherwise wine and oil only. Finally, simple feasts admit the use of oil and wine. The obligation of xerophagy on Wednesdays and Fridays dates its origin to apostolic tradition (cf. Teaching of the Apostles, viii, I; Clement of Alexandria, Strom. VI, lxxv; Tertullian, De jejunio, xiv). The xerophagy of Major Lent is likewise of ancient growth. There is strong reason to think that the question was mooted in the second century, when the Easter controversy waxed strong. Writings of the fourth century afford frequent references to this season. According to the Pilgrimage of Etheria (Duchesne, op. cit., 555), the end of the fourth century witnessed Jerusalem devoting forty days (a period of eight weeks) to fasting and abstinence. The season comprised eight weeks because Orientals keep both Saturday (save Holy Saturday) and Sunday as days of rejoicing, and not of penance. There are several noteworthy evidences of those forty days thus appointed by the Greeks for abstinence and fasting (St. Cyril of Jerusalem, Procatech., no. 4, and Catech., iv, 3, ap. Migne, P. G., XXXIII, 341, 347; Eusebius, De solemnitate pascuali, no. 4, Migne, P. G., XXIV, 697; Apostolic Canons, can. lxviii, ap. Hefele, op. cit., I, 485). The canons of Greek councils show no traces of legislation regarding their Christmas Lent etc. prior to the eighth century. No doubt the practice of keeping xerophagy during these seasons originated in monasteries and thence passed to the laity. In the beginning of the ninth century St. Nicephorus, Patriarch of Constantinople, states that all are obliged to observe xerophagy during those seasons (Pitra, Juris Ecclesiastici Graeci Historia et Monumenta, Rome, 1868, II, 327). It is scarcely necessary to note here that the Greek Church has legislated nearly half of the year into days of fasting or abstinence or both. Nevertheless, many Oriental writers protest against a lessening of this number. In point of fact, however, many Greeks claim that many days of this kind scarcely win proper recognition from the faithful.

[HerServant]

 

I was referring to the holiday period by saying Xmas, which is what it is called. Where as Christ-mass is referring to Jesus and the celebration of his birth, I respect Jesus however, I am no longer interested in mundane materialist religions anymore, that feast off the flesh of cows.

 

Hare Krishna

 

Svarupa prabhu,

 

Your distaste for Christianity is clearly noted, but I think you should at least consider that you may in fact need to do more research before you make broad categorical statements.

 

First of all, the ascetic practices in Christianity are well documented and clearly Christian ascetics for centuries have offered their senses with more rigor than most if not all on this forum will ever do.

 

Secondly, that these ascetics (sadhus) offer their sacrifices for all people on the planet (as is expressed in their prayers and writings).

 

You should note that the "body of Christ" (aka the Christian Church) is generally "divided" into two parts, Religious and laity.

 

There are rules for Religious (vowed) and non religious (non vowed).

 

In general, I believe the non vowed are permitted to eat meat (WITH RESTRICTION) , but a large contingency of vowed do not.

 

 

Yes, Trappists are vegetarians though the practice varies from house to house. The practices outlined here pertain to our community here at Genesee. While we abstain from meat we eat fish occasionally. Perhaps two or three times a week. Meat is served to individuals when indicated for medical reasons.

 

The prohibition against meat is clearly stipulated in the Rule of St. Benedict (chapters 36:9 and 39:11) and Trappists try to follow the Rule as closely as possible.

 

Why is the prohibition in the Rule of St. Benedict in the first place?

 

There are some light-weight reasons often given for monastic vegetarianism such as: for the sake of poverty and to help keep meals simple and not terribly enticing. While these are correct and helpful in the ascetical life they are not primary.

 

More likely than not, what is behind the prohibition against eating meat is the belief that doing so, especially that of red-blooded animals, stimulates and even inflames the passions. Especially lust. Monastic practice bears the truth of this out. Since one of the principle ends of the ascetic (monastic) life is the attainment of apathia, that is general control over and quieting of the passions and emotions, whatever aided the process was readily adopted. Fasting is one help. Also, night vigils, silence, and manual labor. So it is, with abstinence from meat.

- source: http://www.geneseeabbey.org/faq.html#vegetarian

 

It should be noted that the rule of St. Benedict is over 1500 years old and that a large percentage of Catholic monks adhere to its rule (Cistercians, Trappists, Carthusians, Camaldolese)

 

Also the Franciscans have a long tradition of abstinence from meat.

 

It should also be noted that Jesus was Crucified specifically because He ended the meat eating practice of the Jewish Passover!

 

"This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood" - Luke 22:20

 

Jesus uttered the words above "on the night he was betrayed" - 1 Corinth 11:24

 

He replaced the ritual slaughter of innocent lambs for Passover with Himself! And for this, He laid down His life.

 

In fact, at the time of Jesus, it was impossible for a Jew to completely abstain from meat eating (animal slaughter). This is because the passover meal required that a lamb be slaughtered.

 

For more on Christian Abstinence from meat see:

 

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01067a.htm

[Svarupa]

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Svarupa

I was referring to the holiday period by saying Xmas, which is what it is called. Where as Christ-mass is referring to Jesus and the celebration of his birth, I respect Jesus however, I am no longer interested in mundane materialist religions anymore, that feast off the flesh of cows.

 

Hare Krishna

 

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

 

Svarupa prabhu,

 

Your distaste for Christianity is clearly noted, but I think you should at least consider that you may in fact need to do more research before you make broad categorical statements.

 

I think you miss understood what I was saying; it is not Jesus I was criticizing but those who use his name to promote their materialistic values, like killing the cow. Theist understood what I meant if you go back over the thread.

 

 

As far as I know, there is no information that Jesus consumed meat. Maybe fish but even that is allowed in a desert climate with no vegetation if that is all there is to sustain life, however you just can’t offer that to Krishna. It's not Jesus I'm criticizing but those who do their nonsense in the NAME of Jesus, it is them that are the mundane materialistic religions.

 

This is what I meant when I said - I respect Jesus however, I am no longer interested in mundane materialist religions anymore that feast off the flesh of cows.

[RadheRade1657]

 

All glories to Lord Jesus Christ, the Shatyavesa incarnation of Krsna.

 

 

 

Merry Christ-mass

 

Jai Sri Isha! Jai Adhi Kanya Mariam! Jai Sri Krishna! Jai Sri Radha! I, too, have always believed that Lord Jesus is the Son of Lord Krishna in an Israeli incarnation.

[RadheRade1657]

 

<?xml:namespace prefix = o />

Mary and baby Jesus.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Child Jesus helping his father Joseph in his carpentry work as Mary looks on in a devotional mood.

Wesley would use the color blue to denote divinity.

 

Where did you find these beautiful pictures?

Radhe Radhe!

[theist]

Google Frank Wesley Indian artist. He is quite famous.

[theist]

This is my favorite Wesley.

 

 

(New International Version)

 

John 4

 

Jesus Talks With a Samaritan Woman

 

1The Pharisees heard that Jesus was gaining and baptizing more disciples than John, 2although in fact it was not Jesus who baptized, but his disciples.

3When the Lord learned of this, he left Judea and went back once more to Galilee. 4Now he had to go through Samaria.

 

5So he came to a town in Samaria called Sychar, near the plot of ground Jacob had given to his son Joseph.

 

6Jacob's well was there, and Jesus, tired as he was from the journey, sat down by the well. It was about the sixth hour.

7When a Samaritan woman came to draw water, Jesus said to her, "Will you give me a drink?"

 

8(His disciples had gone into the town to buy food.)

9The Samaritan woman said to him, "You are a Jew and I am a Samaritan woman. How can you ask me for a drink?" (For Jews do not associate with Samaritans.^[a])

10Jesus answered her, "If you knew the gift of God and who it is that asks you for a drink, you would have asked him and he would have given you living water."

11"Sir," the woman said, "you have nothing to draw with and the well is deep. Where can you get this living water?

 

12Are you greater than our father Jacob, who gave us the well and drank from it himself, as did also his sons and his flocks and herds?"

13Jesus answered, "Everyone who drinks this water will be thirsty again,

 

14but whoever drinks the water I give him will never thirst. Indeed, the water I give him will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life."

15The woman said to him, "Sir, give me this water so that I won't get thirsty and have to keep coming here to draw water."

16He told her, "Go, call your husband and come back."

17"I have no husband," she replied.

Jesus said to her, "You are right when you say you have no husband.

 

18The fact is, you have had five husbands, and the man you now have is not your husband. What you have just said is quite true."

19"Sir," the woman said, "I can see that you are a prophet.

 

20Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem."

21Jesus declared, "Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.

 

22You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.

 

23Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.

 

24God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

25The woman said, "I know that Messiah" (called Christ) "is coming. When he comes, he will explain everything to us."

26Then Jesus declared, "I who speak to you am he."

The Disciples Rejoin Jesus

 

27Just then his disciples returned and were surprised to find him talking with a woman. But no one asked, "What do you want?" or "Why are you talking with her?" 28Then, leaving her water jar, the woman went back to the town and said to the people, 29"Come, see a man who told me everything I ever did. Could this be the Christ^[b]?" 30They came out of the town and made their way toward him.

31Meanwhile his disciples urged him, "Rabbi, eat something."

32But he said to them, "I have food to eat that you know nothing about."

33Then his disciples said to each other, "Could someone have brought him food?"

34"My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.

 

35Do you not say, 'Four months more and then the harvest'? I tell you, open your eyes and look at the fields! They are ripe for harvest.

 

36Even now the reaper draws his wages, even now he harvests the crop for eternal life, so that the sower and the reaper may be glad together.

 

37Thus the saying 'One sows and another reaps' is true.

 

38I sent you to reap what you have not worked for. Others have done the hard work, and you have reaped the benefits of their labor."

Many Samaritans Believe

 

39Many of the Samaritans from that town believed in him because of the woman's testimony, "He told me everything I ever did."

40So when the Samaritans came to him, they urged him to stay with them, and he stayed two days.

41And because of his words many more became believers. 42They said to the woman, "We no longer believe just because of what you said; now we have heard for ourselves, and we know that this man really is the Savior of the world."

[RadheRade1657]

 

Google Frank Wesley Indian artist. He is quite famous.

 

I really like this one! The Visitation of Mary to Elizabeth is one of my favorite parts of the Gospel of Luke! I esp. love the Canticle of the Virgin:

 

And Mary said:

My Soul doth magnify the Lord, and my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior. For He hath regarded the humility of His handmaiden. Behold, from henceforth, all generations shall bless me! For He that is mighty has done unto me a mighty thing, and holy is His Name. His mercy is from generation unto generation to those that pay Him reverence. He hath shown might with His arm, and He hath scattered the proud in their imaginary hearts. He hath put down the mighty from their seats, but hath exalted the humble. He hath filled the hungry with good things, yet the rich He hath sent empty away.

--Luke 1:46-53

 

I'm gonna go pray it in front of my Lord Krishna on my altar!

[theist]

Nice. I wasn't familar with that incident before.

[HerServant]

 

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Svarupa

I was referring to the holiday period by saying Xmas, which is what it is called. Where as Christ-mass is referring to Jesus and the celebration of his birth, I respect Jesus however, I am no longer interested in mundane materialist religions anymore, that feast off the flesh of cows.

 

Hare Krishna

 

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

 

 

I think you miss understood what I was saying; it is not Jesus I was criticizing but those who use his name to promote their materialistic values, like killing the cow. Theist understood what I meant if you go back over the thread.

 

 

As far as I know, there is no information that Jesus consumed meat. Maybe fish but even that is allowed in a desert climate with no vegetation if that is all there is to sustain life, however you just can’t offer that to Krishna. It's not Jesus I'm criticizing but those who do their nonsense in the NAME of Jesus, it is them that are the mundane materialistic religions.

 

This is what I meant when I said - I respect Jesus however, I am no longer interested in mundane materialist religions anymore that feast off the flesh of cows.

 

Hare Krsna!

 

I am not trying to attack you or your logic. I am just reminding (all of us) that we need to be careful. We have to be careful not to categorize the entire group with the actions of the majority.

 

I think by studying the traditional Christian roots, we will find a deep history in non meat eating, going back to Jesus Himself.

 

People claim Jesus ate fish. This is OK. Fish eating is considered acceptable by many in the east. A fish has to be caught and it can't be caught but by the mercy of God. Many villages and people rely on fish for nutrition. For example, Inuit Eskimos .. can they survive without fish? It is not so easy. And does Krsna condemn them because they are Eskimo? Do we say that is their karma?

 

This is absolute nonsense. IMHO

 

Therefore, to preach to Christians about non violence and non meat eating it is best to first learn about Jesus' sacrifice of Himself to end lamb slaughter of Passover and replace the old law with the new covenant.

 

Thereafter, the Christian ascetics largely practiced austerities including abstinence from meat, and in many cases, anything from the animal (vegan).

 

It would be better to revive the bhakti traditions in Jesus Parampara / Samradaya and in this way promote the mission of Sri Chaitanya (no hard and fast rules ).

 

If the Christians realize that they have fallen away from the authentic and traditional practices within their own tradition, then they will accept the principles of Gaudiya Vaisnavism more readily.

 

We don't need to attack the Christians to deliver the message, but rather remind them that Jesus expects more of them.

 

Her Servant and yours.

[HerServant]

 

I really like this one! The Visitation of Mary to Elizabeth is one of my favorite parts of the Gospel of Luke! I esp. love the Canticle of the Virgin:

 

And Mary said:

My Soul doth magnify the Lord, and my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior. For He hath regarded the humility of His handmaiden. Behold, from henceforth, all generations shall bless me! For He that is mighty has done unto me a mighty thing, and holy is His Name. His mercy is from generation unto generation to those that pay Him reverence. He hath shown might with His arm, and He hath scattered the proud in their imaginary hearts. He hath put down the mighty from their seats, but hath exalted the humble. He hath filled the hungry with good things, yet the rich He hath sent empty away.

--Luke 1:46-53

 

I'm gonna go pray it in front of my Lord Krishna on my altar!

 

Amen. Om! Hare Krsna! Jaya Radhe Maria!

 

Yes indeed beautiful. In fact by meditation on this mystery Mary reveals a deep ecstacy of love. Love of Christ child within her, and sharing her joy with her cousin Elizabeth. Elizabeth is also pregnant with John the Baptist.

John the Baptist as a fetus too "leaps (with joy)" in the womb of Elizabeth upon her meeting of Mary.

 

The mystery teachings in Jesus parampara / sampradaya are to contact Jesus by way of the memory and contemplation of Mary! Her mood and ecstacy is completely accessible to us.

 

Jaya Radhe Maria! Jesus ki Jaya. All Glories to Sri Guru and Sri Gauranga!

 

 

Mary's memories

 

11. Mary lived with her eyes fixed on Christ, treasuring his every word: “She kept all these things, pondering them in her heart” (Lk 2:19; cf. 2:51). The memories of Jesus, impressed upon her heart, were always with her, leading her to reflect on the various moments of her life at her Son's side. In a way those memories were to be the “rosary” which she recited uninterruptedly throughout her earthly life.

 

Even now, amid the joyful songs of the heavenly Jerusalem, the reasons for her thanksgiving and praise remain unchanged. They inspire her maternal concern for the pilgrim Church, in which she continues to relate her personal account of the Gospel. Mary constantly sets before the faithful the “mysteries” of her Son, with the desire that the contemplation of those mysteries will release all their saving power. In the recitation of the Rosary, the Christian community enters into contact with the memories and the contemplative gaze of Mary.

- source: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_20021016_rosarium-virginis-mariae_en.html

[RadheRade1657]

Namaste Her Servant!

I love Mary. After I pray the Maha Mantra to Sri Radha-Krishna, I try to pray 54 Hail Mary's to Her. Mary always was absolutely filled with Krishna's love. I think She is very important to Krishna, She bore His son!

I agree, and I say with you: Aum Hare Krishna! Jai Sri Radhe-Maria ki Jai!

[HerServant]

 

Namaste Her Servant!

I love Mary. After I pray the Maha Mantra to Sri Radha-Krishna, I try to pray 54 Hail Mary's to Her. Mary always was absolutely filled with Krishna's love. I think She is very important to Krishna, She bore His son!

I agree, and I say with you: Aum Hare Krishna! Jai Sri Radhe-Maria ki Jai!

 

Thank you for your sweet devotion! Hail Mary comes from the words Ave Maria. Ave means "all offer obeisances" or "all bow down" and the "ave" was uttered by an angel. Hence in saying Ave Marie, "Hail Mary" we unite to all of the devas offering obeisance to Mary!

 

In fact, more than one of Srila Prabupada's devotees agree that Jesus can only be understood by (through) Mary.

 

Peace and love,

 

Her Servant and yours.

 

Below are some of her names known in east and west.

----

 

RADHA is ... RHODA is...

 

1 RADHA RHODA, ROSE

2 HARE KORE

3 SHAKTI SHEKINAH, SEKHET

4 NARI, NARAYANI MARY, MARIAM, JUNO MARINA

5 ISHVARI ISHISH (Hebrew), ISIS

6 YAUVANI JUVENTAS

7 VASUDEVI BASILEA

8 DEVI THEA, DIA

9 RAJANI, RANI REGINA

10 TARA, ASTRAYA STELLA, ASTERIA

11 'Lunar' ROHINI LUCHINA

12 PADME (LOTUS) NYMPHIA (LOTUS)

13 JIVA SHAKTI HEVE SHEKINAH (EVE), ZOE, BIA, BA (Egypt), HEBE

14 LAKSMI FORTUNA-MONETA (TYCHE as LADY LUCK)

15 SARASVATI SARA-CHOKMAH-SHEKINAH

16 HARINI CORONIS

17 TULASI BASILEA as MOTHER MOST TOLERANT(TULA)

 

Regarding the Christian's Trinity, I believe it is called God, the Holy Ghost, and the son. Person in Krishna Consciousness accepts this by the name Visnu, Paramatma, and Jiva. God is a Person, the holy spirit or the supersoul is a person, and the living entity is also a person. Also, Mary is the representation of the energy of God. Either as internal energy Radharani or as external energy Durga, the energy of Godhead can be considered the mother of the living entities. But there is no clash between the Bible and the Vedas, simply some people formulate their personal ideas and cause quarrelings. - Letter to: Sivananda

--

New York

19 April, 1968

68-04-19

[theist]

 

Regarding the Christian's Trinity, I believe it is called God, the Holy Ghost, and the son. Person in Krishna Consciousness accepts this by the name Visnu, Paramatma, and Jiva. God is a Person, the holy spirit or the supersoul is a person, and the living entity is also a person. Also, Mary is the representation of the energy of God. Either as internal energy Radharani or as external energy Durga, the energy of Godhead can be considered the mother of the living entities. But there is no clash between the Bible and the Vedas, simply some people formulate their personal ideas and cause quarrelings. - Letter to: Sivananda

--

New York

19 April, 1968

68-04-19