why I stopped chanting

[suchandra]

 

Thank you to everybody for taking the time to reply.

 

Especially to Baba, Theist and sanata for their non-judgmental, honest humble and practical advice.

...................................................................

Being told this was a process of developing love was so strange and incomprehensible I had to leave it.

 

So after reading all the posts you conclude, it was better to leave it?

 

Madhudviṣa: Is it possible for a dog-eater to become a first-class man?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Engage this tongue for these two business. Chant Hare Krishna and take prasadam. He will forget dog-eating. (laughter) There is no exception. Everyone can become Krishna conscious if he follows, beginning, these two rules: chant Hare Krishna and take prasadam. That’s all. Test it. Make a trial. The temple is here. We are inviting. Come here. Do these two business. And our Madhudviṣa Maharaja is ready to give you prasadam and chance for dancing and singing. That’s all. Where is the difficulty? You haven’t got to pay for it. No loss. If there is any gain, why don’t you try it?

 

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

 

Śrīmad-Bhagavatam Lecture

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Melbourne, May 19, 1975, (new98)

[Kulapavana]

 

Why should a path towards God's mercy be so fraught with hundreds of hoops to jump through.

 

Very few things are easy in this world.

 

How many hoops would you jump through to get a pot full of gold? Or a girl you fell in love with?

 

It is all a matter of seeing the reward on the other side of the hoop. The previous posters gave a lot of good instructions in that matter.

 

Please forgive me for perhaps inadvertantly weakening your resolve to pursue bhakti by my harsh words...

[cbrahma]

 

So after reading all the posts you conclude, it was better to leave it?

 

Madhudviṣa: Is it possible for a dog-eater to become a first-class man?

Prabhupāda: Oh, yes. Engage this tongue for these two business. Chant Hare Krishna and take prasadam. He will forget dog-eating. (laughter) There is no exception. Everyone can become Krishna conscious if he follows, beginning, these two rules: chant Hare Krishna and take prasadam. That’s all. Test it. Make a trial. The temple is here. We are inviting. Come here. Do these two business. And our Madhudviṣa Maharaja is ready to give you prasadam and chance for dancing and singing. That’s all. Where is the difficulty? You haven’t got to pay for it. No loss. If there is any gain, why don’t you try it?

 

::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

 

Śrīmad-Bhagavatam Lecture

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Melbourne, May 19, 1975, (new98)

I was explaining my past reasons for leaving. It wasn't a conclusion I arrived at from the posts.

The posts range from

"Do what you can, it's not about the rules" to "you just gotta do it".

 

Obviously I am more attracted to the 'its not about the rules".

But they're too picayune to be called rules. They're a swarm of tiny possible offenses as though God were this incredibly delicate anemone that would be wounded by the slightest touch.

I am in disbelief that anybody can seriously follow this kind of complicated process and lead a relatively normal life.

It explains all the fall downs and hyprocrisy to cover up the inability to meet the decatholon of impractical demands.

[Beggar]

Srila Bhakti Raksak Sridhara Deva Goswami,

 

Try to adjust yourself through sound only, the subtlemost element of this plane. Through sound, go on cultivating spiritual life; and that too must be approached with a serving attitude, otherwise it will be futile. We are recommended to approach divinity through the most subtle element of this gross world. Although it is apparently nothing to us at present, this divinity is actually everything.

So, accept the subtlemost thing. But if the very life is absent, our search will be futile. Learn to give yourself, learn to die, to embrace so-called death at every second. Even in this world we find the "do-or-die" attitude in ambitious politicians, social workers, etc. In every duty and at every step they are ready to sacrifice their lives for the cause. If one embraces that do-or-die principle of life, he is sure to progress very intensely and become a great success.

Here also, when approaching the high spiritual life, you must invite death at every step. Give yourself with the most intense desire: do or die. At every point, keep your life as your guarantee: " I shall succeed or I shall die. approach the sound, giving yourself with this spirit. no giving-no getting. if you can deslre to give with such an intensified nature, you will be transformed into a bona fide candidate for the higher world.

Service means self-giving, self-dedication, and this should be our attitude to approach that plane. In that way, all the coatings of ego will vanish one by one, and the genuine self will come from within and select its own soil: "This is my home." So many coverings are deviating us in different directions, taking us far far away from our svarupa, our real noble self--a servant in the highest plane of the whole organism. The Beautiful is playing, dancing in His own sweetness and affection, and we can reach Him, following such a course of "do-or-die" at every moment.

Through self-giving I can acquire my fortune, and not as a master sitting in my chair gathering information from different quarters to utilise for my selfish plans. Adau sraddha tatah sadhu-sanga atha bhajana-kriya (B.r.s. Purwa, 4.15): to progress with faith, keeping the association of devotees and dedicating one's activities to the Lord, means this you must go forward in your life with the spirit that you are willing to give away this life. Do-or-die is, of course, not in the physical sense but the internal sense (bhajana-kriya). This is self-giving, ego-giving.

[cbrahma]

 

Very few things are easy in this world.

 

How many hoops would you jump through to get a pot full of gold? Or a girl you fell in love with?

 

It is all a matter of seeing the reward on the other side of the hoop. The previous posters gave a lot of good instructions in that matter.

 

Please forgive me for perhaps inadvertantly weakening your resolve to pursue bhakti by my harsh words...

This so-called simple process is more complicated, more stressful, more destructive of normal practical life than anything required to achieve workaday goals.

[davidbrucehughes]

Her Servant,

 

It's not so esoteric. Pretty simple actually. My realization is that when we perform devotional service activities because of others' direction, then we are performing vaidhi-bhakti; but when we perform them on our own initiative, that is raganuga-bhakti.

[Kulapavana]

 

This so-called simple process is more complicated, more stressful, more destructive of normal practical life than anything required to achieve workaday goals.

 

that is not my perspective. I have a very demanding and stressful job. I look at devotional activities as the relatively easy part of my day. I loved my brahmacari days, even as I was going through college at the same time.

 

cheer up! these difficulties will pass and one day you will laugh at your current predicament.

[cbrahma]

 

that is not my perspective. I have a very demanding and stressful job. I look at devotional activities as the relatively easy part of my day. I loved my brahmacari days, even as I was going through college at the same time.

 

cheer up! these difficulties will pass and one day you will laugh at your current predicament.

You follow the full sadhana?

The making of prasadam according to all the strictures. The rising early?

The four regs? The offenseless chanting? The 16 rounds....

[Beggar]

 

How many hoops would you jump through to get a pot full of gold? Or a girl you fell in love with?

 

Born in a brahmana family in South India, Bilvamangala Thakura who is also known as Lilasuka (Suka means "parrot") is said to have been a renowned scholar and lived on the eastern bank of the holy river Krsna-Venna in South India. He had an illicit love affair with a dancing girl who was a musician (who sang beautiful bhajans) and harlot named Cintamani, who used to live on the opposite bank of the river Krsna-Venna, and whom he used to visit every night. One stormy night, finding no boat, he risked his life to cross the terrible river by floating on a corpse that lay on the surface of the stream. Some say that this was on the day of his father's funeral and that it turned out to be his father's corpse. But, to his disappointment, he found the gate of Cintamani's house was bolted from within. He shouted her name with all his might, but it was of no avail.

His cries were deadened in the deafening thunder, boisterous winds and torrential rains which were beating on the windows and walls. What was to be done? Nothing could daunt his morbid passion which should be satisfied even at the cost of his life. He was then as a devil incarnate. The walls were too high and steep to scale. The weather-beaten but passionate Bilvamangala made a last desperate attempt to climb the steep wall. Having nothing else to hold on to, he seized the tail of a snake, which clung to the wall and succeeded in leaping over but fell heavily to the ground on the other side of the wall bringing Cintamani to the spot.

In what was practically a dying condition, he was discovered by his love for whom, for the sake of a frantic infatuation, he had risked his life. Had she not found and nursed him, it is certain he would have died. She carried him into the room and there nursed him to save his life. She, seeing his mad love for her, felt a pinch in her conscience and reminded him that such an intense love, if offered to God, Bhagavan, might lead them to their highest good. When he recovered consciousness, she pitied and abused him for his fool hardy venture, saying, "What a great fool you are! Shame on your learning! I know and I am always conscious of my own wicked life and profession. Had you been attached to Bhagavan in the way you love me, you would have been an angel."

It sounded like a call of God to Bilvamangala, who had existed in a circle of hell. The whole face of things was instantly changed, so inspiring were her words at that great moment. To him, those words of hers were not merely a reprieve, but a total deliverance from his hateful life, a restoration that suffused his whole being. Her grim censure proved wholesome to the remorseful Bilvamangala; changed the whole course of his life, giving it a swift turn into spiritual channels. With this she too renounced the world, giving up all her fortunes, and as such she is considered Bilvamangala's vartma-pradarsaka guru or his guru showing him the way to the highest well being.

The very next day he renounced the world and began the most severe asceticism, being initiated by his guru Somagiri. From this sannyasi guru, Somagiri, Bilvamangala learnt practices for self-control and concentration of the mind and also got Gopal-mantra.

Later however, Bilvamangala once desired to enjoy the beautiful wife of a brahmana. But while in her company he became disgusted with himself for his lusty desire. Blaming his eyes for diverting him from his spiritual quest, Bilvamangala took the beautiful woman's hairpins and pierced his eyes.

In his early life, Bilvamangala Thakura was an impersonalist monist, and he used to meditate on the brahman effulgence. Later he became a devotee, and the reason for this change is explained in a verse that he himself wrote, and which was quoted by Srila Rupa Gosvami in his book Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu(3.1.44.). advaita-vithi-pathikair upasyah svananda-simhasana-labdha-diksah \ sathena kenapi vayam hathena dasi-krta gopa-vadhu-vitena. "Although I was worshiped by those on the path of monism and initiated into self-realization through the yoga system, I am nonetheless forcibly turned into a maidservant by some cunning boy who is always joking with the gopis. (CC Madhya 10.177-178).

[Kulapavana]

 

You follow the full sadhana?

The making of prasadam according to all the strictures. The rising early?

The four regs? The offenseless chanting? The 16 rounds....

 

I get up at 5:15 to get to work at 7. I follow all 4 regs, eat only prasadam, and chant 16 rounds (most of it in the car during the commute). I go to the full morning program in the temple only on Sundays. I dont agonize over the quality of my chanting or the quality of my sadhana - I do what I can. Hopefully when I retire I will have more time for devotional activities. Still, I am happy with what I have now. I feel that I am making some progress in spiritual life and I am very optimistic about the future. I feel blessed by Krsna's mercy and I thank Him for it all the time. I never ask for more, and never ask for much. What I have is plenty enough.

[Kulapavana]

 

advaita-vithi-pathikair upasyah svananda-simhasana-labdha-diksah \ sathena kenapi vayam hathena dasi-krta gopa-vadhu-vitena. "Although I was worshiped by those on the path of monism and initiated into self-realization through the yoga system, I am nonetheless forcibly turned into a maidservant by some cunning boy who is always joking with the gopis. (CC Madhya 10.177-178).

 

Pure enchantment...

[cbrahma]

 

I get up at 5:15 to get to work at 7. I follow all 4 regs, eat only prasadam, and chant 16 rounds (most of it in the car during the commute). I go to the full morning program in the temple only on Sundays. I dont agonize over the quality of my chanting or the quality of my sadhana - I do what I can. Hopefully when I retire I will have more time for devotional activities. Still, I am happy with what I have now. I feel that I am making some progress in spiritual life and I am very optimistic about the future. I feel blessed by Krsna's mercy and I thank Him for it all the time. I never ask for more, and never ask for much. What I have is plenty enough.

Just the dietary restrictions and process of making prasadam for me is so impractical and unduly stressful, on top of everything else that I don't see the point. I know one thing for sure. That kind of torture ain't mercy.

[Kulapavana]

 

Just the dietary restrictions and process of making prasadam for me is so impractical and unduly stressful, on top of everything else that I don't see the point. I know one thing for sure. That kind of torture ain't mercy.

 

Sounds to me like you dont know what a torture really is...

[mahak]

But as a lifeline, it holds up. The determination of he who navigates the rescue ship is quite intense compared to us who prefer to just drown and get it over with.

 

So forget all the complications, and walk on down the road. And when you sing, sing hare krsna. It is as simple as that. There is no yuga dharma in effect that requires such perfection in regulations. In fact, there are only two rules, always remember Krsna, and never forget krsna.

 

Dont worry bout the opinions of others. Listen to the stories of those more advanced, tell stories to those less advanced, and stay with us as our friend.

 

Hare Krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

[cbrahma]

 

Sounds to me like you dont know what a torture really is...

It's all relative of course.

I had no idea how painful it could get until I practiced this process.

Material life is a party in comparison.

[Beggar]

When the boy who was to become Srila Govinda Maharaj first joined the Math, Srila Sridhar Maharaj told him, "you may stay in the Math but from this day on you must listen to me, not your mind. Are you prepared for this?" The boy who became Govinda Maharaj replied, "Yes, Guru Maharaj, I will only listen to you you, not my mind."

[Beggar]

Srila Sridhar Maharaj,

Although outwardly he was like a lion, inwardly he was very, very sweet -- yet it could be traced only in his internal sweetness. Outwardly, the way of love was worshipped by him with grandeur, awe, and reverence, but his object was the simple and beautiful Divine Love of Vrindavan, and his temperament in establishing that in the world was just like a lion's. After his departure I described his life in one sloka:

 

nikhila-bhuvana-maya-chinnavicchinna-karttri

vibudha-bahula-mrgya-mukti-mohanta-dhattri

sithilita-vidhi-ragaradhya-radhesa-dhani

vilasatu hrdi nityam bhaktisiddhanta-vani

 

"With his first step, he vigorously cut asunder the whole plane of exploitation, and with his second, he put a stop to all the calculations of the different scholars with their different conceptions of salvation, liberated stages. With his third step, he minimized the hardness and stiffness of the rules and regulations of calculative devotional service, by a touch of the Divine Love: crossing Vaikuntha, he gave us the worship of Sri Sri Radha and Govinda." Calculation, the rules and regulations, awe, reverence, all these things are minimized, checked, slackened with the softness of Vrindavan within, and with the hardness of a devastator without, he created havoc in the materialistic world, fighting with one and all. Single-handedly fighting against the whole world, and cutting asunder everything -- that was his external attitude. And his second attitude was to put a stop to all scholarly researchers and doctorates of different departments, and to stop their boasting research; and third, to minimize, to slacken the grandeur of the worship of Narayan.

He caused the domain of love to descend into this plane with the service of Radha-Govinda, establishing the flow of Divine Love from the heart as all in all. With that we come to serve our object of worship, and he represented the service of Radha Govinda as the highest attainment. That was his history.

The real existence of Srila Bhakti Siddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupad is in bhaktisiddhanta-vani, his divine teachings. May that bhaktisiddhanta-vani dance eternally within the core of your heart.

[Vedesu]

 

Oh no! not the guru sell. Spare me that at least.

 

No wonder you have lost all taste. I had you on my ignore list until just a few minutes ago, (for good reason), as I wanted to see what your attitude was in reply to all the kind Vaishnavas trying to offer some inspiration. Your reply to the previous post took only 3 minutes. Did you even bother to read that post? It doesn't appear that you did. Just another swipe.

 

Instead of blaming the process or the words of the Sadhus, why not look within? Is it possible that the fault is with you, not the process? Atma-niksepa, deep soul-searching, is highly recommended from time to time. Your attitude towards Vaishnavas is extremely negative. You impute ill motives where there are none. At least offer respects from a distance. Otherwise, the mad elephant offense will dry up your devotional creeper, as it appears it already has.

 

At the very least, read the posts carefully, digest them, deliberate, reflect, and then after some pensive introspection, offer your reply. But this "instant sarcastic rebuttal" thing you've got going is not going to help you one iota.

 

Personally, I had some ideas I wanted to share with you that *may* have been of some use to you during this difficult time, but if you're going to be snotty while the devotees are trying to help and encourage you, then there's not much I can say.

 

PS: After posting this, I see that the post I was replying to was deleted and then an edited version added.

[cbrahma]

 

No wonder you have lost all taste. I had you on my ignore list until just a few minutes ago, (for good reason), as I wanted to see what your attitude was in reply to all the kind Vaishnavas trying to offer some inspiration. Your reply to the previous post took only 3 minutes. Did you even bother to read that post? It doesn't appear that you did. Just another swipe.

 

Instead of blaming the process or the words of the Sadhus, why not look within? Is it possible that the fault is with you, not the process? Atma-niksepa, deep soul-searching, is highly recommended from time to time. Your attitude towards Vaishnavas is extremely negative. You impute ill motives where there are none. At least offer respects from a distance. Otherwise, the mad elephant offense will dry up your devotional creeper, as it appears it already has.

 

At the very least, read the posts carefully, digest them, deliberate, reflect, and then after some pensive introspection, offer your reply. But this "instant sarcastic rebuttal" thing you've got going is not going to help you one iota.

 

Personally, I had some ideas I wanted to share with you that *may* have been of some use to you during this difficult time, but if you're going to be snotty while the devotees are trying to help and encourage you, then there's not much I can say.

I don't need gurus shoved down my throat. I've been there already.