Realistic Expectations in Spiritual Life

[Kulapavana]

How realistic are our expectations in that area?

 

Sometimes we read that if we do this and that service we will quickly advance in our spiritual life, or that just one sincere utterance of the Holy Name can remove reactions from all our sins. That often creates the expectations that this process of Krsna consciousness is simple and easy.

 

However, after some time we realize that things are not that simple, at least for most of us mortals.

 

Sometimes we run into disappointed bhaktas complaining bitterly that this process is neither simple, nor easy. I often cant help but think that our expectations in spiritual life have very little to do with reality.

[Audarya-lila dasa]

Spritual life is about giving, not getting. The basic understanding of what bhakti is has to be there - it is all about unmotivated and uninterupted giving. All the motivations we have are so many impediments to real progress in bhakti.

 

The sayings such as: giving is recieving, or, it is better to give than to recieve, give to live etc. all have so much meaning and all point at the pivotal theme in spiritual life - give.

 

A realistic expectation in spritual life is that a person can give all they have because Krsna is unlimited and can accept unlimitedly. As much as we become givers, that much we progress in our pursuit of spiritual life.

 

I assume that ccbrahma's thread about his disappointment in following bhakti sadhana is what gave you impetus to start this thread. My basic thoughts about his experience is that following rules for their own sake is niamagraha - it is detrimental to the development of bhakti. The reason for a rule has to be understood thoroughly, only then can one apply it properly and advance thereby. Bhakti isn't about rules afterall - love has no laws - when you love you know what to do. The whole point of spiritual practice is develop love. Without that as the central theme the whole thing is pointless and is bound to end in frustration.

 

Chant with feeling and everything else will follow. If you can't do that then chant with feeling about your inability to chant with feeling. Krsna will respond according to the chanters heart.

[Kulapavana]

 

Spritual life is about giving, not getting. The basic understanding of what bhakti is has to be there - it is all about unmotivated and uninterupted giving. All the motivations we have are so many impediments to real progress in bhakti.

 

All these are good and valid points, but I think you are jumping the gun here. You are looking at the spiritual life from the "end of the road" (advanced bhakti) perspective.

 

A lot of devotees try to look at their present life in that way and eventually they notice the drastic disconnect between trying to look at life from advanced bhakti perspective and where they currently stand.

 

I know devotees who after many years of trying to think in these terms reverted back to a lower lifestyle (in terms of gunas) then they had prior to joining the movement. It was all an act.

 

That is part of the realistic expectations as well.

[Audarya-lila dasa]

Spritual life is about giving in the beginning, middle and end. It's easy to judge where your at spiritually if your willing to be honest with yourself.

 

Love means sacrifice. Anyone who has experienced genuine love in their life knows that it is born of giving - of self sacrifice.

 

Spiritual life is about love and love is about giving. That's about as simple as it gets. The highest love requires the highest sacrifice - total giving.

 

If you really want to love Krsna then find out what he wants and start giving it to him. Krsna wants our love and affection.

 

Anyone who takes up this path should be clear about what it is all about and what to expect. It is not about enjoying or about avoiding misery - if your interested in either of those things then take up the karma or jnana marga respectively. If you want love then be prepared to give more and more and more. The expectation is if you really want to love Krsna you will ultimately have to give your very self. If you aren't prepared for that then this path isn't right for you.

 

It's said that when Krsna loves someone he takes everything away from that person. Look at Srila Prabhupada's life. Krsna took his business success away from him and his family life became unbearable - this led to his renouncing. Keep your eyes and heart upon the goal and expect Krsna to arrange for your life to become altered. Material life will begin to show itself for what it is and Krsna will provide all the impetus both positive and negative you need to surrender.

 

Sridhara Maharaja once relayed that in a dream he found that everything he possessed was slipping away, even his knowledge, and in the end all he had left was his faith.

 

This is an ego effacing path. Be prepared for a good ego bashing on a daily basis. You're an eternal servant of Krsna and everything on the path is leading toward that realization.

[davidbrucehughes]

If we actually realize that we are spirit souls, then there is no question of feeling disappointed in spiritual life. The reason for this is covered in Second Chapter of the Gita. That doesn't mean that very many devotees actually get it though.

 

If we think that when Krsna says, "This indeed is actual freedom from all miseries arising from material contact" [Bhagavad-gita 6.23], He means that everyone will love us, we will win the lottery and live happily ever after in the material world, then we will indeed experience disappointment. Spiritual life doesn't work that way.

 

What spiritual life does, when successfully cultivated, is to change our consciousness by transforming the meaning of our experience. The experience of material existence itself may not change, and this is what most likely is triggering the devotees' feeling of disappointment.

 

The quality of our consciousness depends on our ontology, or the story we create that gives the meaning of our experience. When we change our ontology, or change our story, we change our consciousness. Krsna consciousness means, among other things, that we interpret our experience according to Krsna's explanation of reality. When we do this successfully, then we realize that nothing in this material world can ever hurt us:

avināśi tu tad viddhi

yena sarvam idaṁ tatam

vināśam avyayasyāsya

na kaścit kartum arhati

 

"Know that which pervades the entire body is indestructible. No one is able to destroy the imperishable soul."

[

Bhagavad-gita

2.17]

 

Or the same principle stated more generally,

nāsato vidyate bhāvo

nābhāvo vidyate sataḥ

ubhayor api dṛṣṭo 'ntas

tv anayos tattva-darśibhiḥ

"Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent there is no endurance, and of the existent there is no cessation. This seers have concluded by studying the nature of both."

[

Bhagavad-gita

2.16]

 

So someone who is actually sastra-caksus, seeing reality through the eyes of the scripture, will not expect his experience of this world to change, but will change his ontology so that he interprets his experience in a different way. Then he will be able to give service according to duty without unrealistically expecting material benefit, because he has full confidence that by following the path of devotional service, he will go to the spiritual world in the next birth, if not before. What does that look like? Krsna explains:

śrī-bhagavān uvāca

prajahāti yadā kāmān

sarvān pārtha mano-gatān

ātmany evātmanā tuṣṭaḥ

sthita-prajñas tadocyate

 

 

The Blessed Lord said:

"O Pārtha, when a man gives up all varieties of sense desire which arise from mental concoction, and when his mind finds satisfaction in the self alone, then he is said to be in pure transcendental consciousness."

[

Bhagavad-gita

2.55]

 

We have to reach the stage of devotional service where we can experience transcendental pleasure in our personal service relationship with Krsna. Then material attachment and desire fall away naturally. This stage is realized by performance of devotional service in spontaneous love, beyond the mechanical rules and regulations of the scriptures.

 

We love our mother and father, our friends, our wife or husband, so what is the difficulty to love Krsna? After all, without Krsna, all these other natural objects of love would not even exist. Therefore the solution to all the problems of material existence is simply to love Krsna. If we do this, then our path to complete self-realization is clear.

 

love,

Baba

[mahak]

Srila Prabhupada said chant and my life would be sublime. I did, it is. I expect nothing.

 

If whats going on this minute is insufficient, then there is nothing more.

 

Haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[CCC]

 

If we actually realize that we are spirit souls, then there is no question of feeling disappointed in spiritual life. The reason for this is covered in Second Chapter of the Gita. That doesn't mean that very many devotees actually get it though.

 

If we think that when Krsna says, "This indeed is actual freedom from all miseries arising from material contact" [Bhagavad-gita 6.23], He means that everyone will love us, we will win the lottery and live happily ever after in the material world, then we will indeed experience disappointment. Spiritual life doesn't work that way.

 

What spiritual life does, when successfully cultivated, is to change our consciousness by transforming the meaning of our experience. The experience of material existence itself may not change, and this is what most likely is triggering the devotees' feeling of disappointment.

 

 

The quality of our consciousness depends on our ontology, or the story we create that gives the meaning of our experience. When we change our ontology, or change our story, we change our consciousness. Krsna consciousness means, among other things, that we interpret our experience according to Krsna's explanation of reality. When we do this successfully, then we realize that nothing in this material world can ever hurt us:

avināśi tu tad viddhi

 

yena sarvam idaṁ tatam

 

vināśam avyayasyāsya

 

na kaścit kartum arhati

 

 

"Know that which pervades the entire body is indestructible. No one is able to destroy the imperishable soul."

[

Bhagavad-gita

2.17]

 

 

Or the same principle stated more generally,

nāsato vidyate bhāvo

 

nābhāvo vidyate sataḥ

 

ubhayor api dṛṣṭo 'ntas

 

tv anayos tattva-darśibhiḥ

 

 

"Those who are seers of the truth have concluded that of the nonexistent there is no endurance, and of the existent there is no cessation. This seers have concluded by studying the nature of both."

[

Bhagavad-gita

2.16]

 

 

So someone who is actually sastra-caksus, seeing reality through the eyes of the scripture, will not expect his experience of this world to change, but will change his ontology so that he interprets his experience in a different way. Then he will be able to give service according to duty without unrealistically expecting material benefit, because he has full confidence that by following the path of devotional service, he will go to the spiritual world in the next birth, if not before. What does that look like? Krsna explains:

śrī-bhagavān uvāca

 

prajahāti yadā kāmān

 

sarvān pārtha mano-gatān

 

ātmany evātmanā tuṣṭaḥ

 

sthita-prajñas tadocyate

 

 

The Blessed Lord said:

"O Pārtha, when a man gives up all varieties of sense desire which arise from mental concoction, and when his mind finds satisfaction in the self alone, then he is said to be in pure transcendental consciousness."

[

Bhagavad-gita

2.55]

 

 

We have to reach the stage of devotional service where we can experience transcendental pleasure in our personal service relationship with Krsna. Then material attachment and desire fall away naturally. This stage is realized by performance of devotional service in spontaneous love, beyond the mechanical rules and regulations of the scriptures.

 

We love our mother and father, our friends, our wife or husband, so what is the difficulty to love Krsna? After all, without Krsna, all these other natural objects of love would not even exist. Therefore the solution to all the problems of material existence is simply to love Krsna. If we do this, then our path to complete self-realization is clear.

 

love,

Baba

 

I am not a liberated soul:crying2:

 

http://liberatedsouls.org/#page:sub-pages/home.php

[mahak]

me neither, but its nothing to cry over. The liberated just move to the next prison, just ask the woman who is liberated.

[CCC]

 

me neither, but its nothing to cry over. The liberated just move to the next prison, just ask the woman who is liberated.

 

what woman?

[Sarva gattah]

Very wonderful and inspiring post by davidbrucehughes, what he wrote is what we all need to understand Hari Bol

[mahak]

the one accross the street. Freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose. Shes a babe, but shes gotta go to work now, shes a police-person, nice MAC.

[mahak]

 

Very wonderful and inspiring post by davidbrucehughes, what he wrote is what we all need to understand Hari Bol

 

ditto here, hope my sense of humor doesnt take away from the great contributions of audarya fellows.

[vaisnavapada]

 

Anyone who takes up this path should be clear about what it is all about and what to expect. It is not about enjoying or about avoiding misery - if your interested in either of those things then take up the karma or jnana marga respectively. If you want love then be prepared to give more and more and more. The expectation is if you really want to love Krsna you will ultimately have to give your very self. If you aren't prepared for that then this path isn't right for you.

 

 

Thank you very much for replying. I understand that my reason for involvement in this bhakti marga is very much influenced by karma and jnana and, from the definition of spiritual life you have given, I know I am not interested because of my other interests. I am ashamed at my own insincerity. Through sadhu-sanga one develops more sukriti. But sadhu-sanga means to serve. If we are interested in karma and jnana, how does one actually do sadhu-sanga? It seems like a really difficult position.

[suchandra]

 

ditto here, hope my sense of humor doesnt take away from the great contributions of audarya fellows.

I know what you mean, but we should try to be thankful for everything.

Just like this morning, what a beautiful sunrise at 5.30!

A beautiful sunrise sponsored by God, the invisible giant you turn to when you are about to die.

[Kulapavana]

 

If we think that when Krsna says, "This indeed is actual freedom from all miseries arising from material contact" [Bhagavad-gita 6.23], He means that everyone will love us, we will win the lottery and live happily ever after in the material world, then we will indeed experience disappointment. Spiritual life doesn't work that way.

 

What spiritual life does, when successfully cultivated, is to change our consciousness by transforming the meaning of our experience. The experience of material existence itself may not change, and this is what most likely is triggering the devotees' feeling of disappointment.

 

 

This is precisely what I am talking about. We DO expect to achieve something tangible from the execution of the devotional service - we are expecting our consciousness to change, and become purified. At least that is the motivation of ordinary devotees like myself who are not yet purified. Pure devotees just want to serve, and do not care even about their own purification.

 

So lets talk about the expectations in the realm of changes in consciousness and our purification.

[tackleberry]

 

This is precisely what I am talking about. We DO expect to achieve something tangible from the execution of the devotional service - we are expecting our consciousness to change, and become purified. At least that is the motivation of ordinary devotees like myself who are not yet purified. Pure devotees just want to serve, and do not care even about their own purification.

 

So lets talk about the expectations in the realm of changes in consciousness and our purification.

 

By 'change in consciousness', do you mean moving to a higher level, or something of the sort? If so, that's the kind of change I haven't noticed in many people, unfortunately. By change, most people refer to superficial changes like abstinence from meat, and so on, usually OUTER changes.

 

Hardly have I come across any person claiming to have changed within, or having attained a higher level of consciousness. Maybe, this is why people give up, it's because changes don't affect the core of their being, and they simply remain on the surface.

[suchandra]

 

This is precisely what I am talking about. We DO expect to achieve something tangible from the execution of the devotional service - we are expecting our consciousness to change, and become purified. At least that is the motivation of ordinary devotees like myself who are not yet purified. Pure devotees just want to serve, and do not care even about their own purification.

 

So lets talk about the expectations in the realm of changes in consciousness and our purification.

A symptom of spiritual advancement is less sleep, less association with tamo-guna and more time for devotional service. It is said that the six goswamis conquered over sleep.

 

ankhya-purvaka-nama-gana-natibhih kalavasani-krtau

nidrahara-viharakadi-vijitau catyanta-dinau ca yau

radha-krsna-guna-smrter madhurimanandena sammohitau

vande rupa-sanatanau raghu-yugau sri-jiva-gopalakau

 

[“I worship the Six Gosvamis, who passed all their time in chanting the holy names, singing songs, and offering dandavat-pranama, thereby humbly fulfilling their vow to complete a fixed number daily. In this way they utilized their valuable lives and conquered over eating and sleeping. Always seeing themselves as completely worthless, they became enchanted in divine rapt ure by remembering Sri Radha-Krsna’s sweet qualities. (Sri Sad-Gosvamy-astakam, verse 6)]

 

Looks like there's now additional help to conquer over sleep with modern science.

 

Snorting a Brain Chemical Could Replace Sleep

 

By Alexis Madrigal 12.28.07 | 12:00 AM

<!-- only display photo on first page --> <!-- start article photo -->

A nasal spray of a key brain hormone cures sleepiness in sleep-deprived monkeys. With no apparent side effects, the hormone might be a promising sleep-replacement drug.

Photo: Flickr/Mayr

<!-- close pic -->

In what sounds like a dream for millions of tired coffee drinkers, Darpa-funded scientists might have found a drug that will eliminate sleepiness.

A nasal spray containing a naturally occurring brain hormone called orexin A reversed the effects of sleep deprivation in monkeys, allowing them to perform like well-rested monkeys on cognitive tests. The discovery's first application will probably be in treatment of the severe sleep disorder narcolepsy.

The treatment is "a totally new route for increasing arousal, and the new study shows it to be relatively benign," said Jerome Siegel, a professor of psychiatry at UCLA and a co-author of the paper. "It reduces sleepiness without causing edginess."

Orexin A is a promising candidate to become a "sleep replacement" drug. For decades, stimulants have been used to combat sleepiness, but they can be addictive and often have side effects, including raising blood pressure or causing mood swings. The military, for example, administers amphetamines to pilots flying long distances, and has funded research into new drugs like the stimulant modafinil (.pdf) and orexin A in an effort to help troops stay awake with the fewest side effects.

The monkeys were deprived of sleep for 30 to 36 hours and then given either orexin A or a saline placebo before taking standard cognitive tests. The monkeys given orexin A in a nasal spray scored about the same as alert monkeys, while the saline-control group was severely impaired.

The study, published in the Dec. 26 edition of <cite>The Journal of Neuroscience</cite>, found orexin A not only restored monkeys' cognitive abilities but made their brains look "awake" in PET scans.

Siegel said that orexin A is unique in that it only had an impact on sleepy monkeys, not alert ones, and that it is "specific in reversing the effects of sleepiness" without other impacts on the brain.

Such a product could be widely desired by the more than 70 percent of Americans who the National Sleep Foundation estimates get less than the generally recommended eight hours of sleep per night (.pdf).

The research follows the discovery by Siegel that the absence of orexin A appears to cause narcolepsy. That finding pointed to a major role for the peptide's absence in causing sleepiness. It stood to reason that if the deficit of orexin A makes people sleepy, adding it back into the brain would reduce the effects, said Siegel.

"What we've been doing so far is increasing arousal without dealing with the underlying problem," he said. "If the underlying deficit is a loss of orexin, and it clearly is, then the best treatment would be orexin."

Dr. Michael Twery, director of the National Center on Sleep Disorders Research, said that while research into drugs for sleepiness is "very interesting," he cautioned that the long-term consequences of not sleeping were not well-known.

Both Twery and Siegel noted that it is unclear whether or not treating the brain chemistry behind sleepiness would alleviate the other problems associated with sleep deprivation.

"New research indicates that not getting enough sleep is associated with increased risk of cardiovascular disease and metabolic disorders," said Twery.

Still, Siegel said that Americans already recognize that sleepiness is a problem and have long treated it with a variety of stimulants.

"We have to realize that we are already living in a society where we are already self-medicating with caffeine," he said.

He also said that modafinil, which is marketed as Provigil by Cephalon and Alertec in Canada, has become widely used by healthy individuals for managing sleepiness.

"We have these other precedents, and it's not clear that you can't use orexin A temporarily to reduce sleep," said Siegel. "On the other hand, you'd have to be a fool to advocate taking this and reducing sleep as much as possible."

Sleep advocates probably won't have to worry about orexin A reaching drugstore shelves for many years. Any commercial treatment using the substance would need approval from the Food and Drug Administration, which can take more than a decade.

[Kulapavana]

 

By 'change in consciousness', do you mean moving to a higher level, or something of the sort? If so, that's the kind of change I haven't noticed in many people, unfortunately. By change, most people refer to superficial changes like abstinence from meat, and so on, usually OUTER changes.

 

The main thing for me is the degree to which someone has become purified from things such as desire for fame, profit, and distinction, as well as visible renunciation from the worldly things. Giving up meat is not hard, lots of people do it nowadays.

 

I see changes of consciousness in many devotees, but they are usually very gradual and subtle. It is definitely not an automatic process. I see many sannyasis with huge egos, tremendously bitter and unhappy in life. It is often painted on their faces. Self inflicted martyrdom for the sake of fame profit and distinction - yet it fails to make them really happy and content in their life. Extreme egotism - it is all about MY spiritual life. Somehow Krsna does not seem to be rewarding them with much realization either, because their classes are usually boring and repetitive.

[suchandra]

 

The main thing for me is the degree to which someone has become purified from things such as desire for fame, profit, and distinction, as well as visible renunciation from the worldly things. Giving up meat is not hard, lots of people do it nowadays.

 

I see changes of consciousness in many devotees, but they are usually very gradual and subtle. It is definitely not an automatic process. I see many sannyasis with huge egos, tremendously bitter and unhappy in life. It is often painted on their faces. Self inflicted martyrdom for the sake of fame profit and distinction - yet it fails to make them really happy and content in their life. Extreme egotism - it is all about MY spiritual life. Somehow Krsna does not seem to be rewarding them with much realization either, because their classes are usually boring and repetitive.

 

Realistic would be to expect that people at least in India, can wear tilok to remind us of Krishna.

 

Saturday, December 29, 2007

<table class="blog" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td width="30"></td> <td> TILAK now illegal in sectors of India!

BBC News, Bihar

 

Mr Mishra has worn the tilak throughout his career. A senior official in India's Bihar state faces suspension for wearing the Hindu red mark on his forehead at work. Lakshman Mishra, deputy director of the agriculture department, is accused of breaching a new government dress code. He says he has worn the mark, or tilak, on his forehead at work for 30 years and it is his religious right to do so. His colleagues support him - nearly all of them arrived at work on Friday wearing red marks in protest, and unions are threatening mass action.

Suicide threat. Mr Mishra's troubles began in August when new guidelines were issued on what state government officials could wear at the office. No one should be suspended for wearing a holy tilak as it's a matter of personal choice.

Bihar Agriculture Minister Narendra Singh, His department head, CK Anil, warned Mr Mishra that he considered his tilak to be in breach of the code. When he refused to remove it, Mr Anil recommended him for suspension. Mr Anil is a young, no-nonsense civil service high-flier who has already reprimanded staff in another department for spitting out betel leaf they had been chewing at work. He is currently not taking calls from the media.

Many people in northern India wear the red holy mark on their foreheads and it is a common sight in government offices. Mr Mishra says he has no intention of giving up the practice. "I've been sporting the red holy dot on my forehead for the last 30 years of my career," he told the BBC. "It has religious sentiment for me and if somebody goes on harassing me on this pretext I'll have no option but to commit suicide."

Anger. Barring some senior officials, all the employees of the state agriculture department went to work on Friday with tilaks on their foreheads in protest at his treatment. Civil servants came out in protest on Friday. They laid siege to Mr Anil's office and demanded he withdraw his recommendation that Mr Mishra be suspended. "The officer's move has hurt our religious sentiments and as our protest against his order we've come to the office today adorning our foreheads with the red dot. Let him suspend all of us now," said union leader Baidyanath Yadav. Several other state government unions are also angry and are threatening mass protests if his suspension order is not revoked with immediate effect.

Even state Agriculture Minister Narendra Singh agrees, saying "no one should be suspended for wearing a holy tilak as it's a matter of personal choice".

</td></tr></tbody></table>

[Kulapavana]

Anyway, speaking about having realistic expectations...

 

It is my New Year resolution to spend less time on this forum and instead to concentrate more on actual seva. Dandavat pranams to all the Vaishnavas. Please forgive me for my frequent trespasses against proper Vaishnava behavior and an occasional personal attack... vanca kalpataru...

[mahak]

Less time is okay, but not at the expense of your quality posts. And as far as behavior goes, we all do the best we can. We come here for exposure to devotional service in the forms, mainly, of sravanam, kirtanam, visnoh smaranam. We hear (read), we chant (write), and we remember Visnu. The other stuff is really just a chemical released in our biology that causes actions of anger. We can all get over this "hurt feelings" real soon if we understand that all vaisnavas are quite rare.

 

The tangible results sghould be a noticing within of increase of vaisnava behavior (like your expressed humility in recognizing excessive behavior. I just got a dose myself in the form of two PMs reminding me what a jerk I can be at times.) along with a decrease of materialistic tendency. For myse3lf, these things can be tangibly measured, and the vedic terms have something to do with nirvrtti marga and pavriti marga. I forget the rest:smash:

 

So, I have measured an increased unwillingness to jump on bandwagons to heap scorn on my troubled and perhaps insane godbrothers. I have more inclination to think of these folks in better days, with recognition that, just as he has not abandoned me, he certainly has not abandoned them either, considering their impact on helping him greatly in his missionary activities. One can follow my writings over the last ten years and see that such a change has taken place. While I dont blindside myself into thinking they are greater than Bozo, it is not me walking within that dying frame with that set of consciousness to the personal armageddon (kuruksetra) we must apply ourselves to. Ive got my own chariot going thru final preparation for when the sparks will fly.

 

Anyway, have a tangibly successful new year, one and all, hare krsna, ys, mahaksadasa

 

PS Now this is a good topic, I hope my participation is less harsh as well.

[Audarya-lila dasa]

 

Thank you very much for replying. I understand that my reason for involvement in this bhakti marga is very much influenced by karma and jnana and, from the definition of spiritual life you have given, I know I am not interested because of my other interests. I am ashamed at my own insincerity. Through sadhu-sanga one develops more sukriti. But sadhu-sanga means to serve. If we are interested in karma and jnana, how does one actually do sadhu-sanga? It seems like a really difficult position.

 

Sadhu-sanga will purify those who still have desires for material advancement or for intellectual aquisition. A real sadhu will inspire those who associate with him/her and they will naturally feel their own serving tendency being kindled. It is really quite natural.

 

Jnana and karma are a little useful in the beginning of the bhakti marg, but Rupa Goswami has called them witches - so we should try to be introspective and see our own hearts. If you have strong desires for material advancement or renunciation, Krsna can purify your heart of those desires.

 

One thing I think all people who take up this path should be aware of and that is that it may take quite a bit of time. When we talk about results we are really talking about a change of heart. Nityananda Prabhu is known as maha-bahu (stronged armed), he can defeat all seperate interests in our hearts and clear our consciousness so that it is a good sitting place for Chaitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

Krsna consciousness is not about getting a hard heart by stuffing the head full of information and thereby imagining we have really 'gone somewhere'. This whole process is about softening our hearts, learning to cry for Krsna, seeing our own fallen condition and praying sincerely for bhakti to descend from above. We cannot 'go anywhere' without help from above, and that help comes when we sincerely cry out and realize our own utter helplessness.

 

Gaura Hari Bol - Happy New Year to all - may it bring a newer excitement and commitment to each of us to take up this wonderful path with all sincerity. May we all pray for good company and by Krsna's grace become good company for others as well.

[Beggar]

 

Sadhu-sanga will purify those who still have desires for material advancement or for intellectual aquisition. A real sadhu will inspire those who associate with him/her and they will naturally feel their own serving tendency being kindled. It is really quite natural...

 

I transcribed part of Srutasrava Prabhu's lecture (posted by Murali Mohan das (Prabhu)) which is on these points given by Audarya-lila dasa (Prabhu). Here it is:

 

[22:22 on video] That’s why Bhagavad Gita says dhiras tattva na muhyati, it doesn’t say na bibhayti, it doesn’t say the wise are not afraid of death…that the wise are not afraid to change bodies. But somebody whose detached, really detached, not in an artificial way. Somebody who is dhira, not interested in material enjoyment, who is dhira not disturbed, is not bewildered, by the change of bodies. So what does spirituality give to us? So many things it gives to us. Inconceivable things, devarsi-bhutapta-nrnam pitrnam. So many people and so many things, I am indebted to… it will eliminate those things, to the extent that we will go to the plane of dedication. And fortunately for us, here is where the whole equation changes. It’s not dependent on our personal capacity, our personal ability, how great or wonderful we are, how learned we are, how super-excellent we are, it depends on what kind of Vaisnava we are connected with. The whole thing is just dependent on that. And how gracious that Vaisnava (Srila Govinda Maharaj) is to us! If that Vaisnava will be pleased with us then we will get maximum credit or connection with the plane of dedication, because on our own we can’t dedicate anything. If you are locked off in some cave somewhere you can’t go to the bank, you can’t go to the store you can’t do anything. If we want to give our energy to the divine plane…How are we going to connect with the divine plane? What instruments do we have at our disposal without the help of a Vaisnava to connect to the divine plane? Our mind, we are going to imagine the divine plane? Are we going to imagine a connection with the divine plane? Are we going to use our intellect? Even Einstein said, and his intellect was very vast, he said, “when I look at the universe and I see that there is some sort of order and I see the vast intelligence behind this order I feel that I am like a child reading a book in a language which he doesn’t know.”

[Shakti-Fan]

Generally I agree with this,

And fortunately for us, here is where the whole equation changes. It’s not dependent on our personal capacity, our personal ability, how great or wonderful we are, how learned we are, how super-excellent we are, it depends on what kind of Vaisnava we are connected with. The whole thing is just dependent on that.

It just seems that there should be more explanation or detail such as in this lecture excerpt from Srila Narayana Maharaja,

Although Srila Swami Maharaja actually came to this world as a representative of our guru-parampara, some people want him to be the only guru. They want that there be only one guru – for the past, present and future. They want to deny our guru-parampara. This is very bad; we should not try to do this. Rather, we should know what is guru-tattva.

Guru means "heavy," more so than anyone else in this world – even more so than Krsna Himself. Sometimes Krsna may come to that guru and take his foot dust; it may be so. It is written in Sri Gita-Govinda by Srila Jayadeva Gosvami that Krsna said to Srimati Radhika, "Dehi pada-pallavam udharam – Please be merciful and place Your lotus feet on My head. Be pleased with Me." Krsna sometimes also says this to the gopis who serve Srimati Radhika more so than they serve Him. He may pray to them, "Please place your footdust on My head," This is guru-tattva.

In other words, all the pure gurus in the disciplic line of Srila Rupa Gosvami, in their spiritually perfected forms, are gopi maidservants of Srimati Radhika. The subject of guru-tattva is the essence of all of our bhakti literature. This subject is very heavy, and therefore you should hear it with the core of your hearts. We can only worship Krsna after we have worshipped guru.

All of us in this world have turned away from Krsna. Whether you accept it or not, it is true. Although we are greatly suffering, we do not realize it. Why not? We have drunk such a large quantity of the alcohol of maya that we have become completely mad; and in this madness we think ourselves very happy. You should know that one day you will have to give up your bodies and all that you have collected in this world. One day you will surely have to be old. Old age is very eagerly waiting to embrace you, and none of you will be able to escape it. A devotee of the caliber of Sri Narada Muni can escape this maya and its presentation of old age, but you are not like Narada Muni. You will have to suffer if you are not careful.

It is stated in the Vedas:

yasya deve para bhaktir

yatha deve tatha gurau

tasyaite kathita hy arthah

prakasante mahatmanah

(Svetasvatara Upanisad 6.23)

["Only unto those great souls who have implicit faith in both the Lord and the spiritual master are all the imports of Vedic knowledge automatically revealed."]

The instruction has been given since ancient times: "Be careful." Yasya deve para bhakti. Those who are suffering and who want to be happy in this world and in the next, especially those living in the present age of quarrel and hypocrisy called kali-yuga, should serve Krsna, the Supreme Lord. And, not less than Him, such persons must serve the bona fide gurudeva. Here in this verse the word para-bhakti has been used, and we should therefore know the meaning of bhakti:

anyabhilasita sunyam jnana-karmady anavrtam

anukulyena krsnanu silanam bhaktir uttama

(Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu 1.1.11)

["The cultivation of activities which are meant exclusively for the pleasure of Sri Krsna, or in other words the uninterrupted flow of service to Sri Krsna, performed through all endeavors of the body, mind and speech, and through the expression of various spiritual sentiments (bhavas), which is not covered by jnana and karma, and which is devoid of all desires other than the aspiration to bring happiness to Sri Krsna is called uttama-bhakti, pure devotional service."]

Para-bhakti is the continuous, uninterrupted flow of the activities performed by our body, mind, words and moods (bhavas), which are executed only for the benefit of Krsna. Such activities are not disturbed or covered by jnana (mental speculation or knowledge leading to impersonal liberation) and karma (the desire to enjoy the fruits of one's activities), and it is performed under the guidance of guru-tattva. If there is a lack of the above symptoms in a devotee's activities but bhakti is there to a small degree, we can still call it bhakti – but not para-bhakti.

The Vedas tell us that para-bhakti is certainly to be applied to Krsna, but first it must be applied to guru. If one has no guru, all his devotional activities will be like zero; only worldly fruits will come. If one thinks, "I am already chanting, remembering, and performing arcana (regulative worship of the deity)", but he is not truly initiated by a bona fide guru, the fruit of his activities will only be worldly. Intoxicated by sense enjoyment such a person may think himself happy, but he will not actually be happy.It is therefore stated in sastra:

brahmanda bhramite kona bhagyavan jiva

guru-krsna-prasade paya bhakti-lata-bija

(Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 19.151)

["According to their karma, all living entities are wandering throughout the entire universe. Some of them are being elevated to the upper planetary systems, and some are going down into the lower planetary systems. Out of many millions of wandering living entities, one who is very fortunate gets an opportunity to associate with a bona fide spiritual master by the grace of Krsna. By the mercy of both Krsna and the spiritual master, such a person receives the seed of the creeper of devotional service."]

[gHari]

Yet we are still too dull to see through our own sham as we stand tall dressed in saffron for the play, expecting soon to be gopis. We shrink Sri Krsna until we feel He is qualified to enter our world. It is not that Krsna that I want.