Beggar Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 GM with Virasundari & Mark who have taken pre-initiation at New Panihati 2007 GM with Virasundari & Mark who have taken pre-initiation at New Panihati 2007 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 "took pre-initiation" That is a curious term. I wonder what she means. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Who is GM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 "took pre-initiation" That is a curious term. I wonder what she means. It appears that they have invented a new thing with their fertile brains. In the Gaudiya Math and it's non-ISKCON offshoots, no one is instructed to chant the Maha Mantra on beads until they are formally given those beads by the guru at the Hare Nama initiation ceremony. At the Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math during the time of Srila Sridhar Maharaj, if someone came from ISKCON and they were initiated by an ISKCON guru who they were rejecting, they were asked to surrender their japa beads and not chant japa until they were initiated by Srila Sridhar Maharaj. In ISKCON it is quite the opposite, anyone who shows up can purchase beads and then be instructed how to chant. Of course sometimes they are actually given japa beads which is directly against Srila Prabhupada's instruction. Since non-initiated ISKCONites are already chanting perhaps their pre-initiation is like an engagement before the "marriage" of initiation. 2007 Virasundari with Guru Maharaja 2007 Virasundari with Guru Maharaja after Pre-Initiation Ceremony (Jayapataka Maharaja, the last of the Original 11 in good standing, Hrdayananda Maharaja is about 60% in good standing) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Maybe it refers to someone who has picked a guru, contacted him and is in the process of examining that guru and the guru them before any formal rites are conducted. I hope it is not some formal invented thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 I hope it is not some formal invented thing. 2007 Virasundari with Guru Maharaja after Pre-Initiation Ceremony Ceremony means formal, therefore it must be a new invention. Maybe they should contact a patent attorney? Then if the Gaudiya Math tried to pre-initiate someone, ISKCON could file a lawsuit and get a temporary restraining order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 It appears that they have invented a new thing with their fertile brains. In the Gaudiya Math and it's non-ISKCON offshoots, no one is instructed to chant the Maha Mantra on beads until they are formally given those beads by the guru at the Hare Nama initiation ceremony. At the Sri Caitanya Saraswat Math during the time of Srila Sridhar Maharaj, if someone came from ISKCON and they were initiated by an ISKCON guru who they were rejecting, they were asked to surrender their japa beads and not chant japa until they were initiated by Srila Sridhar Maharaj. In ISKCON it is quite the opposite, anyone who shows up can purchase beads and then be instructed how to chant. Of course sometimes they are actually given japa beads which is directly against Srila Prabhupada's instruction. Since non-initiated ISKCONites are already chanting perhaps their pre-initiation is like an engagement before the "marriage" of initiation. It can probably be said that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta himself invented several of such things, including the Hari-nama initiation. If one guru invents something new that creates a precedent for his followers. I am not saying that all such inventions are bad, only that it is hard to criticize the followers for doing the same things their guru performed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 It can probably be said that Srila Bhaktisiddhanta himself invented several of such things, including the Hari-nama initiation. If one guru invents something new that creates a precedent for his followers. I am not saying that all such inventions are bad, only that it is hard to criticize the followers for doing the same things their guru performed. Srila Prabhupada did not want his disciples to become acaryas who were revolutionary reformers and change what he had given. He could clearly see that no one was qualified for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 Srila Prabhupada did not want his disciples to become acaryas who were revolutionary reformers and change what he had given. He could clearly see that no one was qualified for that. This is the argument of the ritviks. Just like: "Nobody is qualified to be a real guru and acharya - ever..." So in the same way you are saying that nobody will ever be qualified to make any subsequent changes? What you said about Prabhupada's wishes may be true, but to demand that no changes will be introduced in the future, when several of the past acharyas introduced significant changes to tradition, is not a reasonable expectation. Prabhupada did not lay down very clear rules regarding initiations or chanting on the beads prior to initiation. Getting gayatri mantra from a tape recorder?? I am not at all surprised the changes continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 I am not at all surprised the changes continue. There are persons outside of ISKCON's walls that are competent to give real guidance. If any change is deemed necessary then perhaps the proposal could be presented to someone more experienced and advanced and they could approve or disapprove. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 There are persons outside of ISKCON's walls that are competent to give real guidance. If any change is deemed necessary then perhaps the proposal could be presented to someone more experienced and advanced and they could approve or disapprove. That will never work. The leadership of Iskcon decided long ago that it is "Prabhupada only" society and as long as SP's disciples are still alive it will continue to be run in that fashion. Besides, can you imagine anybody outside Iskcon approving all the stuff that is already in place? What about guru-puja performed in front of the Deities while Tulasi-puja is done with curtains closed? Another issue. There are some very qualified people in Iskcon but because the GBC decissions are controlled by several "power circles" their voices are either hushed or ignored. And since GBC is a position for life, changes are very hard to implement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted January 10, 2008 Report Share Posted January 10, 2008 That will never work. The leadership of Iskcon decided long ago that it is "Prabhupada only" society and as long as SP's disciples are still alive it will continue to be run in that fashion. Besides, can you imagine anybody outside Iskcon approving all the stuff that is already in place? What about guru-puja performed in front of the Deities while Tulasi-puja is done with curtains closed? Another issue. There are some very qualified people in Iskcon but because the GBC decissions are controlled by several "power circles" their voices are either hushed or ignored. And since GBC is a position for life, changes are very hard to implement. Therefore the proper changes such as for guru-puja and not serving out grains to the devotees at the Janmastami feast do not occur. Yet, ironically and fitting, new changes like "retired" sannyasis, paying TPs $60k salaries and pre-initiations have no difficulty in manifesting. Gee, I wonder why that is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mahak Posted January 11, 2008 Report Share Posted January 11, 2008 how bout post sanyassi traumatic initiation, PSTI, compensible by the federal government, $1,555 per month, tax free, provided you got twenty five years robed service. Have him gimme a call, Ill be his union rep (if he wasnt a scab) or send him to the Judge advocate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 After the GBC makes SDG get a job he returns after driving a bus on the night shift: "Alice, I'm home!!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beggar Posted January 12, 2008 Report Share Posted January 12, 2008 Satsvarupa, he was a friend of mine And he could write a poem His heart in every line Satsvarupa wrote of the joy and pain He opened up our minds And I still can hear him say Aw, talk to me so you can see What's going on Say you will write your poems Forevermore, evermore Gonna be some sweet japa reform coming down On the nightshift I bet you're chanting proud Oh, I bet you'll haul a crowd Gonna be a long night, it's gonna be all right On the Route 19 nightshift Oh you found another home, I know you're not alone On the nightshift Bhagavan, hey what you doing now It seems like yesterday When we were pick'in out Bhagavan, you set your zone on fire You came and preached to us Your class, it lifted us higher and higher Keep it up and we'll be there At your side Oh say you will sing your bhajan songs Forevermore, evermore Gonna be some sweet japa coming down On the nightshift I bet you're chanting proud Oh, I bet you'll pull a crowd Gonna be a long night, it's gonna be all right On the nightshift Oh you found another home, I know you're not alone On the nightshift Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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