Question: Through a book can you contact the spiritual master???

[krsna]

Question: Through a book can you contact the spiritual master?

Prabhupada: No, you have to associate.

Devotee: "Can you associate through a book?" she asked.

Prabhupada: Yes, through books and also personal. Because when you make a spiritual master you have got personal touch. Not that in air you make a spiritual master. You make a spiritual master concrete. So as soon as you make a spiritual master, you should be inquisitive. (RC London, Sept. 23, 1969)

 

"One should not proudly think that one can understand the transcendental loving

service of the Lord simply by reading books... One must accept a Vaisnava guru

(adau gurv-asrayam), and then by questions and answers one should gradually

learn what pure devotional service to Krsna is. That is called the parampara

system." (Cc. Antya-lila 7.53, purp.) - AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

The disciple, if he cannot understand the statement of the scriptures or any saintly person, he submits his doubts before the spiritual master and he clears it. In this way we have to make progress. (Montreal, July 9, 1968)

 

By reading you cannot understand. (Bom. Jan. 8, 1977 )

 

''Therefore out of thousands of men, one may inquire about his spirit self and thus consult the revealed scriptures like vedanta-sutra, Bhagavad Gita and Srimad Bhagavatam. But in spite of reading and hearing such scriptures, unless one is in touch with a realized Spiritual master, he cannot actually realize the real nature of self,etc (Bhag.2.3.1(2:1,p.136)

 

Oh, I may or may not accept a spiritual master. In any case, there are books that I can learn from." No, the Vedic injunction is tad-vijïänärthaà sa gurum eväbhigacchet [MU 1.2.12]. The word gacchet means "one must go," not that one may or may not go. To understand transcendental knowledge, one must go to a spiritual master. That is the Vedic injunction. (NOI)

 

[mjan]

 

By reading you cannot understand.

Why did Prabhupada, and his students distribute so many books then?

What is the best people can get from them?

[Beggar]

PURPORT

 

It is explained in the previous verse that one has to hear glorification of the Lord from the mouth of a pure devotee. This is further explained here. The transcendental vibration from the mouth of a pure devotee is so powerful that it can revive the living entity’s memory of his eternal relationship with the Supreme Personality of Godhead. In our material existence, under the influence of illusory mäyä, we have almost forgotten our eternal relationship with the Lord, exactly like a man sleeping very deeply who forgets his duties. In the Vedas it is said that every one of us is sleeping under the influence of maya. We must get up from this slumber and engage in the right service, for thus we can properly utilize the facility of this human form of life. As expressed in a song by Thäkura Bhaktivinoda, Lord Caitanya says, jiva jago, jiva jago. The Lord asks every sleeping living entity to get up and engage in devotional service so that his mission in this human form of life may be fulfilled. This awakening voice comes through the mouth of a pure devotee.

 

A pure devotee always engages in the service of the Lord, taking shelter of His lotus feet, and therefore he has a direct connection with the saffron mercy-particles that are strewn over the lotus feet of the Lord. Although when a pure devotee speaks the articulation of his voice may resemble the sound of this material sky, the voice is spiritually very powerful because it touches the particles of saffron dust on the lotus feet of the Lord. As soon as a sleeping living entity hears the powerful voice emanating from the mouth of a pure devotee, he immediately remembers his eternal relationship with the Lord, although up until that moment he had forgotten everything.

For a conditioned soul, therefore, it is very important to hear from the mouth of a pure devotee, who is fully surrendered to the lotus feet of the Lord without any material desire, speculative knowledge or contamination of the modes of material nature. Every one of us is kuyogi because we have engaged in the service of this material world, forgetting our eternal relationship with the Lord as His eternal loving servants. It is our duty to rise from the kuyoga platform to become suyogis, perfect mystics. The process of hearing from a pure devotee is recommended in all Vedic scriptures, especially by Lord Caitanya Mahäprabhu. One may stay in his position of life-it does not matter what it is-but if one hears from the mouth of a pure devotee, he gradually comes to the understanding of his relationship with the Lord and thus engages in His loving service, and his life becomes completely perfect. Therefore, this process of hearing from the mouth of a pure devotee is very important for making progress in the line of spiritual understanding. SB 4-20-25

[Sarva gattah]

 

Why did Prabhupada, and his students distribute so many books then?

What is the best people can get from them?

 

Distributing books is sowing the seeds, just like most devotees first received a BTG or Book they read and new that to understand the essence of Prabhupada’s Books, they must associate with those who live their lives by those Books. It is just like a doctor who studies his exams in books although the real understanding of learning medicine comes by associating with other doctors and teachers who helps and teaches one to put what they have read into ‘practical use’ and ‘performing their duty’ upon what they have studied.

 

In this way the Book leads to the bhagavat-sańgi or devotees of the Lord, this is why Book distribution is so important. By reading a Book like Bhagavad-Gita as it is, or magazine like ‘Back to Godhead’, the natural progression is to seek out the association of devotees and a teacher or Guru who can teach one to live by those Books. Once that is done and one has also eaten and honored prasadam, then their spiritual revival is well under way.

 

When I recieved my first BTG in 1970, I new I had to eventually find Prabhupada and the devotees to teach me the correct understanding of what I was reading.

 

So yes, through a book one CAN OBVIOUSLY contact the spiritual master, in fact, along with hearing the chanting of Hare Krishna, IT IS THE BEST WAY

Srila Prabhupada - "Yes, through books and also personal. Because when you meet a spiritual master you have got personal touch (you recieve personal touch)". London, Sept. 23, 1969

[theist]

 

Paramahamsa: There's a verse in the Bhagavatam that says that one moment's association with a pure devotee is greater than liberation from the material world or than innumerable...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Paramahamsa: ...years of enjoyment on heavenly planets.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Paramahamsa: My question is: A pure devotee, when he comments Bhagavad-gita, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with his commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?

Prabhupada: Yes. You can associate with Krishna by reading Bhagavad-gita. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty? Everyone is helping you.-conv. 1974

For myself, I am fully satisifed with what is said above.

[Sarva gattah]

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Paramahamsa: My question is: A pure devotee, when he comments Bhagavad-gita, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with his commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?

Prabhupada: Yes. You can associate with Krishna by reading Bhagavad-gita. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty? Everyone is helping you.

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

 

For myself, I am fully satisifed with what is said above.

 

Great quote! However those you may meet and tell them about Krishna, or give a book too, wouldn't you encourage them to assocate with devotee's to become fixed in the teachings of Krishna Consciousness as you first did nearly 40 years ago?

[CCC]

 

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-right: 3ex; padding-left: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">Paramahamsa: My question is: A pure devotee, when he comments Bhagavad-gita, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with his commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?

Prabhupada: Yes. You can associate with Krishna by reading Bhagavad-gita. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty? Everyone is helping you.

</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

 

 

Great quote! However those you may meet and tell them about Krishna, or give a book too, wouldn't you encourage them to assocate with devotee's to become fixed in the teachings of Krishna Consciousness as you first did nearly 40 years ago?

 

at least I go to the temple just to chant HAre Krsna, eat some prasadam and talk with some devotees, I don't go to the classes, I am fed up with the same cowdung again and again (guru cultists, speculations, and so on)

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Paramahamsa: There's a verse in the Bhagavatam that says that one moment's association with a pure devotee is greater than liberation from the material world or than innumerable...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Paramahamsa: ...years of enjoyment on heavenly planets.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Paramahamsa: My question is: A pure devotee, when he comments Bhagavad-gita, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with his commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?

Prabhupada: Yes. You can associate with Krishna by reading Bhagavad-gita. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty? Everyone is helping you.-conv. 1974

Prabhupada, "Everyone is helping you". Who is "you"? Paramahamsa, and he is hearing this directly from Prabhupada, face to face. Those who read the books of Srila Bhaktivedanta Prabhupada and met him, even, saw him for one second are very fortunate. Those who read his books while he was on the planet but never met him, also that is a good position. Those who read his books when he first departed (and of course never met), a little less, but still good fortune, although those who joined the institution were put through the travails of falling "gurus". The best situation was to read and hear directly from his lotus mouth. But his books are so powerful that those reading for the first time will get much benefit, and some will have the past pious merits and intelligence to seek out good association for bhakti (Krishna Consciousness).

[Hari Bhakta dasa]

 

Why did Prabhupada, and his students distribute so many books then?

What is the best people can get from them?

 

this is why Srila Prabhupada spent so much time writing his purports to the books.

 

We can not understand by reading the books without the spiritual master's help.

 

Purports are Srila Prabhupada speaking to us and helping us to understand.

[suchandra]

 

For myself, I am fully satisifed with what is said above.

 

Paramahamsa: There's a verse in the Bhagavatam that says that one moment's association with a pure devotee is greater than liberation from the material world or than innumerable...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Paramahamsa: ...years of enjoyment on heavenly planets.

Prabhupada: Yes.

Paramahamsa: My question is: A pure devotee, when he comments Bhagavad-gita, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with his commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?

Prabhupada: Yes. You can associate with Krishna by reading Bhagavad-gita. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty? Everyone is helping you.-conv. 1974

Recently someone posted at another forum something similiar, that if Prabhupada would not have come personally to NY and only sent his books to some NY bookstores, would anyone have joined and underwent the spiritual discipline of sadhana bhakti and become situated in bhakti-yoga? Looks rather there're two steps, first waking up the soul to get the desire for spiritual advancement and then next living in the association of devotees and not remain surrounded by materialistic minded people. This step of waking up the soul surely happens when reading spiritual literature. But without living in the association of devotees it seems very difficult to give up material attachments and become fixed up in spiritual discipline and devotional service. In fact many people who read Prabhupada's books but remained at home and not live in the association of devotees - these people gradually went back and forgot about about Krishna. At least that was my impression. But all this living with the devotees was not dependent to physically meet with Prabhupada. Prabhupada would never emphazise that it was important to meet with him and develop a personal relationship in a worldly sense. Of course did he want that the devotees should come and meet him but he didnt want that you develop a personal relationship with him in a worldly sense but simply hear him lecture. Therefore all lectures were recorded and distributed, because it was considered as very essence. Everyone had his own Sony tape recorder and a small collection of lectures. One could also borrow lectures from the temple tape ministry.

[theist]

 

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-right: 3ex; padding-left: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">Paramahamsa: My question is: A pure devotee, when he comments Bhagavad-gita, someone who never sees him physically, but he just comes in contact with his commentary, explanation, is this the same thing?

Prabhupada: Yes. You can associate with Krishna by reading Bhagavad-gita. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty? Everyone is helping you.

</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

 

 

Great quote! However those you may meet and tell them about Krishna, or give a book too, wouldn't you encourage them to assocate with devotee's to become fixed in the teachings of Krishna Consciousness as you first did nearly 40 years ago?

First of it devotee in his commentaries IS association as the quotes state. But beyond that of course if one wants to advance well in Krsna consciousness then he needs all forms of association. I don't know anybody that can just read all day.

 

Here is the theing, at least as I see it. One can reading the commentaries of the acarya and still not really be associating with him beyond a certain level. I mean, look at those that had the most intimate (so-called) association with Srila Prabhupada and how they wasted no time in hijacking his Iskcon immediately after his body was no longer visible. What was the real depth level of their association?

 

The river of bhakti is not only wide it is very deep. A river that is a mile wide but only an inch deep may look good from the shore but try to swim in it. Big surprise. Who knew it was that shallow 'eh.

 

So someone can memeorize all the words, have been in those special places at the special times (like Matchless Gifts in 1967)know all the right devotees and that is all wonderful and a great blessing and that is the width but those blessing must be allowed to enter deep into the consciousness.

 

What I am trying to say is there is association shallow and association deep. The depth of pure devotee association runs all the way to the source which is the toe of Krsna. And that is not diminished in commentary form.

[sanatan]

I'm still confused on this issue.

 

Srila Prabhupada clearly indicated that association with him through his books was as good as personal association.

 

Then, there are the proponents of the need for a "Living Guru" that state the above isn't sufficient in itself.

 

 

Theist, I agree that ongoing association with those of decidedly devotional inclination is essential. Whether this includes having a "living" diksa-guru is what's questionable.

[suchandra]

 

I'm still confused on this issue.

 

 

 

Therefore Prabhupada ordered to open temples, association of devotees dissolves confusion.

[Sarva gattah]

 

First of it devotee in his commentaries IS association as the quotes state. But beyond that of course if one wants to advance well in Krsna consciousness then he needs all forms of association. I don't know anybody that can just read all day.

 

Here is the theing, at least as I see it. One can reading the commentaries of the acarya and still not really be associating with him beyond a certain level. I mean, look at those that had the most intimate (so-called) association with Srila Prabhupada and how they wasted no time in hijacking his Iskcon immediately after his body was no longer visible. What was the real depth level of their association?

 

The river of bhakti is not only wide it is very deep. A river that is a mile wide but only an inch deep may look good from the shore but try to swim in it. Big surprise. Who knew it was that shallow 'eh.

 

So someone can memeorize all the words, have been in those special places at the special times (like Matchless Gifts in 1967)know all the right devotees and that is all wonderful and a great blessing and that is the width but those blessing must be allowed to enter deep into the consciousness.

 

What I am trying to say is there is association shallow and association deep. The deep of pure devotee association runs all the way to the source which is the toe of Krsna. And that is not diminished in commentary form.

 

Well said. It seems the problem is no one has stepped up to be even close to the dynamic selfless preaching potency that Prabhupada was, which, if we really think about it, is quite understandable considering most of our present day Gurus and Swamis, at least in ISKCON, came from meat eating karmi families.

 

A pure devotee cannot be imitated and it cannot be achieved artificially, we learnt that lesson in the 1980's. It seems as devotee's become more purified beyond the facade of external imitation of just maintaining the rules and regulations, then it becomes real and that great transcendental high tide of Krishna Conscious bliss, experienced in the mid sixties and very early seventies, can again be reached. Some older devotees say that if you look hard enough, especially in New York and San Francisco, where it all began in the West, you can still see high tide mark of that transcendental ocean of bliss Srila Prabhupada carried with him had reached, before it began to reseed after 1977.

 

Only after 1977, did the ISKCON leadership and many devotees (myself one of them) ran into difficulty. Regardless of those serios diificulities, the movemt still grew and spread, especially in the old Soviet block countries where Srila Prabhupada had personally sowed the seed in Moscow in 1971

 

I believe that side by side with the Books, there must be a very strong presents of humble selfless Krishna Conscious teachers that can guide all new devotees. I believe that day is coming. These are only the very early pioneering beginnings of a great Krishna Conscious Sankirtan movement.

 

As it is said, history is never recognized in its own time. Theist, future generation at Universities will be doing thesis’s on us pioneers. I don’t think we realize how fortunate we are to be born right at the beginning of the Golden Age within Kali yuga - Anyway this is my opionion Hare Krishna

[sanatan]

 

Therefore Prabhupada ordered to open temples, association of devotees dissolves confusion.

 

No and Yes.

 

If the devotees in the temples are also confused, then what?

 

But somewhat-confused association is better than none at all, for sure.

[gHari]

It's about heart. The books or words can attract, but the heart must make a connection.

[Beggar]

 

What I am trying to say is there is association shallow and association deep. The deep of pure devotee association runs all the way to the source which is the toe of Krsna. And that is not diminished in commentary form.

One can obtain great benefit from reading the Bhaktivedanta Purports (commentaries). For those associating in a "shallow" way, the personal association of sadhus will not take full effect at least not for a long time, perhaps many births. For those associating in a "deep" way they can have great benefit from the sastra and the sastra guru, but those persons will then see the advice given to seek personal association of a sadhu and directly hear with one's ears. If the association runs deep enough then such fortunate souls will continue their "deep" approach and not be deviated by the materialistic devotees who often surround a sadhu ostensibly for spiritual advancement in devotional service but really for material gain. This is the ideal that we find in all the Gaudiya Vaisnava sastras. To me this is all theory, but I accept it as an ideal. My problem is that I am very attached to my senses.

[theist]

 

I'm still confused on this issue.

 

Srila Prabhupada clearly indicated that association with him through his books was as good as personal association.

 

Then, there are the proponents of the need for a "Living Guru" that state the above isn't sufficient in itself.

 

 

Theist, I agree that ongoing association with those of decidedly devotional inclination is essential. Whether this includes having a "living" diksa-guru is what's questionable.

Don't let their confusion become your confusion.

 

The term "living guru" is extremely offensive. It implies some guru's are dead. This is a fools conception. Guru is not the body that soul used to spread krsna consciousness anymore then the car he drove around in.

 

Isn't the first lesson in the Bhagavad-gita that we are eternal spiritsoul and not subject to death? So is guru the only exception to this reality.

 

We have to progress past this idea that Srila Prabhupada was an elderly Indian gentleman from Begal who walked with a cane. Yes honor the form he used. He form is fully spiritualized. But we have to understand Srila Prabhupada is not that form lying in his samadhi in Vrndavan. Just so no one thinks I am diminishing such rememberances when I was in Vrndavan attend the arotik there every evening and chanted the bulk of my rounds on the second floor. It is a sacred place but Srila Prabhupada is not lying there dead.

a

 

Thread title. Question: Through a book can you contact the spiritual master???

 

He is as he always was. We connect with the pure devotee and thus Krsna through the medium of transcendental sound vibration.

 

Reading his commentaries is another form of hearing.

 

Who in their right mind thinks this is not the sufficient to contact Krsna?

 

We need to abandon this whole ecclesiastical guru scam. Ignore these people. Religiousity is nice but it ain't the real thing. To get to krsna we must adandon ALL varieries of religion. Let them have their baby Catholic church. Much sukriti will be spread and much good will be done but it will be mixed with all these other material conceptions.

 

Presently most of us are just baby ducks waddling around and I am the ugly duckling to be sure. But the devotees are supreme swans. And the only way for us to experience the tranformation to swan status is to keep our eye on the swans and follow their path and this meaning ignoring the loud quacking of the ducks.

[theist]

 

One can obtain great benefit from reading the Bhaktivedanta Purports (commentaries). For those associating in a "shallow" way, the personal association of sadhus will not take full effect at least not for a long time, perhaps many births. For those associating in a "deep" way they can have great benefit from the sastra and the sastra guru, but those persons will then see the advice given to seek personal association of a sadhu and directly hear with one's ears. If the association runs deep enough then such fortunate souls will continue their "deep" approach and not be deviated by the materialistic devotees who often surround a sadhu ostensibly for spiritual advancement in devotional service but really for material gain. This is the ideal that we find in all the Gaudiya Vaisnava sastras. To me this is all theory, but I accept it as an ideal. My problem is that I am very attached to my senses.

 

Circular logic. Hearing/reading the commentaries IS association.

 

Please reread the conversation quote again. It IS associaiton not that it may ultimately lead to associaiton.

[Beggar]

 

Circular logic. Hearing/reading the commentaries IS association.

 

Please reread the conversation quote again. It IS associaiton not that it may ultimately lead to associaiton.

Srila Sridhar Maharaj, "There is gradation everywhere".

Srila Sridhar Maharaj to Bhargava Prabhu, "It is a system, if you understand the system you can answer all questions".

 

The answer: It IS association in general. There are different gradations of association. Do we desire to personally be in Srila Prabhupada's association at the time of death? Do we wish that we will be so qualified by pleasing him, or he will be so merciful that he will personally come for us? Or will we be satisfied that we already have it all just by reading? Do the pure devotees wish to eternally read about Krsna's pastimes or do they desire to desire to enter into those pastimes?

[Murali_Mohan_das]

Does anybody know of a good home-study PhD. program in particle physics? I've been thinking about going back to school.

 

If you don't like the term "living guru", how about "personal guru"? Please don't tell me the books are a person (except in the general sense that everything is a person).

[Beggar]

http://www.vtweb.com/gosai/chaitanya/gbc/78_ssm_gbc.html

March 1978

Srila Sridhara Maharaja:

The gurudeva is mentioned in the sastra with an example. The sisya is like a lotus, and the gurudeva like the water around, just as in a pond or in a lake, gurudevas position is like water and Krsna is like the sun. As long as the lotus is floating on the water, the sun will give life to the lotus but if the water vanishes that very sun will burn the lotus. Do you follow? This sort of example is given in the sastra. I cannot exactly remember the sanskrit verse, but such example is there, the water along with the lotus, for without water the sun, Krsna, will burn. Without the help of guru the disciple is nowhere. Raghunatha Das Goswami prabhu, the prayojana acarya of the whole Gaudiya philosophy, spiritual system-he has also remarked that yat bunjayate kunjam hrdayate . . .that a python is coming. After the demise, departure of Sri Gurudeva, Rupa-Sanatana, that Govardhan Hill, which is the representation of Sri Krsna Himself, it seems to me just like a big python is coming to devour me and Radha Kunda the holiest place of the divinity of the Gaudiya Sampradaya, like a tigers mouth, it is coming to devour me by the separation of Gurudeva. So much excitement is there, given to me about the absence of my gurudeva, my dearest and my highest guardian, spiritual guardian, who has the most intense affection for me, to nurture me for spiritual purpose. He is not here, how can I tolerate that my everything is gone. All vanishes with his departure-such sort of deep sense of separation will come and the . . .

... that union in separation-vipralambha-that is the highest kind of attainment, vipralambha. Without vipralambha nothing else can come to us. Krsna and the opposite thing, that is antithesis, that will come as vipralambha, vihara, Krsna vihara, krsna milan, krsna vihara and without milan there cannot be any other reaction to that, without that separation, vihara, vipralambha. So, vipralambha is the most spacious, most spacious thing pertaining to Krsna consciousness. And if we can have the grace of that plane, forgetfullness. In forgetfullness also, if there is Krsna connection then we are safe, we are set. In the forgetfulness also we shall have the Krsna consciousness also in the background and nothing else-no maya. The safest position, fearless position, that is vipralambha. In vipralambha, gurudeva, in separation to gurudeva, if we can stand then vidyavatam bhagavate pariksad. I have passed the highest stage, test, examination. In separation also I can retain the memory of sri gurudeva, Sri Krsna.

[sanatan]

 

Don't let their confusion become your confusion.

 

The term "living guru" is extremely offensive. It implies some guru's are dead. This is a fools conception. Guru is not the body that soul used to spread krsna consciousness anymore then the car he drove around in.

 

....the only way for us to experience the tranformation to swan status is to keep our eye on the swans and follow their path and this meaning ignoring the loud quacking of the ducks.

 

Like cbrahma, in order to keep my sanity, I've had to step back from active ISKCON participation and mentally re-program.

 

Have I lost the baseline, essential aspects of faith? No.

 

Have I become (more) hard-hearted and inwardly critical and doubting? Unfortunately, I think so.

 

Is the above condition a transitional position? I pray that it is.

 

 

Does anybody know of a good home-study PhD. program in particle physics? I've been thinking about going back to school.

 

Well, around 1990 (waaay pre-internet), an outfit called Kennedy-Western University sent me an application and description of by-mail degree programs offered. Among these were doctorates in nuclear physics and electrical engineering. I filled out and sent back the app to enroll my cat in the EE Ph.D course, but they never replied back.

 

Google them; I think they're still around and now online.

 

 

If you don't like the term "living guru", how about "personal guru"? Please don't tell me the books are a person (except in the general sense that everything is a person).

 

Nobody said the books are a person.

 

I'm no Guruvani, a shastra-meister with instant verse, chapter, and date recall, but I do know that Srila Prabhupada stated that the guru and his teachings (contained in his books) are non-different.

[Vedesu]

 

I'm no Guruvani, a shastra-meister with instant verse, chapter, and date recall, but I do know that Srila Prabhupada stated that the guru and his teachings (contained in his books) are non-different.

 

As Beggar was stating earlier, there are gradations. The Holy Name is considered non-different than Krsna. At the same time, the Holy Name is considered more merciful than Krsna Himself. Srila Prabhupada's purports are indeed profound and can provide immense benefit. Yet, if one actually experiences this benefit, it is only natural that he will want to meet the author himself. "From him, ecstactic prema emanates." The key is in understanding that there are degrees, gradations. We are personalists, so it is only natural that we should gradually aspire to personally render service to the Sadhus, not from afar, but up close and personal, touching their lotus feet. That's why we have arca vigraha, to learn how to be personal in all respects. That's why Guru appears in person, not just mailing out books from overseas and expecting us to become "personalists" from reading his books. As Srila Sridhara stated, Vrindavan is the Land of Gurus. Das dasanudas. We are advised to learn to become the servant of the servant of the servant. There is tremendous benefit from reading the Bhaktivedanta purports, no doubt, (even if some do not accept that the Battle of Kuruksetra actually took place. Such persons are atheists in my mind, pretending to be authorities on Srila Prabhupada's message.) Yet, even more benefit is to be obtained if we are fortunate enough (which I am not, regrettably,) to associate and personally serve the Sadhus and pure devotees. Just my humble opinion. It doesn't have to be all or nothing. Both vapuh and vani have their value.

[mjan]

@theist: last time you said, you are not advaitist, but you talk now about swan, symbol of advaita... Is there a deeper meaning in this

...the only way for us to experience the tranformation to swan status...

?

 

i'm not argueing about the point you tryed to say, just interested in symbology- is there a deeper symbolic meaning in it