Question: Through a book can you contact the spiritual master???

[Murali_Mohan_das]

It's amazing how much a period can change the meaning, isn't it?

 

 

Prabhupada: Yes. You can associate with Krishna by reading Bhagavad-gita. And these saintly persons, they have given their explanations, comments. So where is the difficulty? Everyone is helping you.-conv. 1974

 

See that period between "Bhagavad-gita" and "And". In my view it doesn't belong there (theologically and grammatically). This is a transcript of a conversation.

 

It better reads, "You can associate with Krishna by reading Bhagavad-gita, and [associating with] these saintly persons--they have given their explanations, comments"

The fact that you are so easily offended, theist, is a strong indication that you may have *theoretically* accepted Jagganatha and Mahaprabhu in your mind, but that They do not yet rule your heart.

If you think one can easily become Krishna-conscious by reading books and listening to guidance from within without associating with the saintly persons (however you chose to define or redefine them) but studying particle physics at a PhD. level alone is impossible, then your vision is indeed very narrow.

There is only *one* subject, Krishna. The scriptures and the textbooks and the saints all point to Him.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

The contribution Thiest has done on these threads are wonderdul. I know of people who have read his comments, started reading Prabhupada's books and have moved into the ISKCON Temple.

 

To the extent that he is surrendered, Sri Krishna has used theist to spread His mercy.

 

To the extent that he still serves his own mind, theist is a pompous windbag.

[theist]

 

It's amazing how much a period can change the meaning, isn't it?

 

 

 

See that period between "Bhagavad-gita" and "And". In my view it doesn't belong there (theologically and grammatically). This is a transcript of a conversation.

 

It better reads, "You can associate with Krishna by reading Bhagavad-gita, and [associating with] these saintly persons--they have given their explanations, comments"

The fact that you are so easily offended, theist, is a strong indication that you may have *theoretically* accepted Jagganatha and Mahaprabhu in your mind, but that They do not yet rule your heart.

If you think one can easily become Krishna-conscious by reading books and listening to guidance from within without associating with the saintly persons (however you chose to define or redefine them) but studying particle physics at a PhD. level alone is impossible, then your vision is indeed very narrow.

There is only *one* subject, Krishna. The scriptures and the textbooks and the saints all point to Him.

 

Who said I was offended. I am just annoyed at the obstinate stupity. I think you should get a job with the BBT rewriting Srila Prabhupada's conversations. I don't think they have done that yet and you possess the arrogance to take the job on.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

There are college professors who spend their whole careers studying the Vaishnava scriptures while continuing to unashamedly live like mlecchas. They happily lecture classrooms full of students about the inner meaning of Vedanta with great eloquence and erudition while conveying nothing of the true sentiment found in the scripture.

 

You aren't much different from those pontificators, are you (except you are not nearly as eloquent)?

 

Your learning and supposed conviction are worth nothing (actually, less than nothing) if you try to cheat others by encouraging them to follow your foolish example.

 

 

Who said I was offended. I am just annoyed at the obstinate stupity. I think you should get a job with the BBT rewriting Srila Prabhupada's conversations. I don't think they have done that yet and you possess the arrogance to take the job on.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

I stopped reading after these offensive statements.

 

You find the statements offensive, therefore you are offended. QED.

[theist]

 

You find the statements offensive, therefore you are offended. QED.

 

Offensive to PRABHUPAD you dolt!

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

Offensive to PRABHUPAD you dolt!

 

Oh, so you know Prabhupada well-enough to know what would offend him?

 

You sure seem offended by me. I wish I could say I'm sorry for that.

[theist]

And thus ends this exchange.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

And thus ends this exchange.

 

Thank God!!!

 

Toying with you is just much too easy. It's not even fun.

[Beggar]

 

Thank God!!!

 

Toying with you is just much too easy. It's not even fun.

Then why are you toying with someone who is obviously old enough to be your father, senior to you, formally initiated or not. Theist served ISKCON directly during Srila Prabhupada's manifest lila but did not take initiation for he felt unqualified. He also was directly in Srila Prabhupada's presence. Now he feels connected to Srila Prabhupada through his books. In my opinion, he does overly stress the books over connection with a living sadhu, but I certainly don't believe that he has nothing in his hand from his experience. I just don't see how creating a heated argument that degrades into name calling can further the cause of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's Sankirtan Movement. We are all still conditioned souls who tend towards attachment, hate and envy. We need to observe these things within ourselves and refuse to act on them (especially hate and envy) otherwise our minds are completely out of control and there is then no question of actually practicing Krsna Consciousness to even the smallest extent. If we are to be practitioners then even posting on this website will be a service or seva. Aparadha or offences can also be seva aparadha, what to speak of Vaisnava aparadha.

[Malati dasi]

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Ashvatama

The contribution Thiest has done on these threads are wonderdul. I know of people who have read his comments, started reading Prabhupada's books and have moved into the ISKCON Temple.

 

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Murali Mohan das :To the extent that he is surrendered, Sri Krishna has used theist to spread His mercy.

To the extent that he still serves his own mind, theist is a pompous windbag.

 

 

I definitely agree with you Muralimohandas. And to add, self-deception is the wost kind of deception.

 

 

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[Murali_Mohan_das]

You are right, Pita-ji. I let my emotions get the best of my reason.

 

Thank you for your kind correction!!

 

 

Then why are you toying with someone who is obviously old enough to be your father, senior to you, formally initiated or not. Theist served ISKCON directly during Srila Prabhupada's manifest lila but did not take initiation for he felt unqualified. He also was directly in Srila Prabhupada's presence. Now he feels connected to Srila Prabhupada through his books. In my opinion, he does overly stress the books over connection with a living sadhu, but I certainly don't believe that he has nothing in his hand from his experience. I just don't see how creating a heated argument that degrades into name calling can further the cause of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu's Sankirtan Movement. We are all still conditioned souls who tend towards attachment, hate and envy. We need to observe these things within ourselves and refuse to act on them (especially hate and envy) otherwise our minds are completely out of control and there is then no question of actually practicing Krsna Consciousness to even the smallest extent. If we are to be practitioners then even posting on this website will be a service or seva. Aparadha or offences can also be seva aparadha, what to speak of Vaisnava aparadha.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

 

I definitely agree with you Muralimohandas. And to add, self-deception is the wost kind of deception.<!-- / message -->

 

So true!! I pray the day soon comes when I will be able to set aside my pride and truly follow the instructions and example of Srila Gurudev!!!

 

Dandavata Pranamas!!

 

Ananta Koti Vaishnava Vrinda Ki Jai!!!

[Beggar]

 

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-right: 3ex; padding-left: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">Originally Posted by Ashvatama

The contribution Thiest has done on these threads are wonderdul. I know of people who have read his comments, started reading Prabhupada's books and have moved into the ISKCON Temple.

 

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Murali Mohan das :To the extent that he is surrendered, Sri Krishna has used theist to spread His mercy.

To the extent that he still serves his own mind, theist is a pompous windbag.

 

 

I definitely agree with you Muralimohandas. And to add, self-deception is the wost kind of deception.

 

I agree with Srila Saraswati Thakur, but generally it is left to the person in the role of guru (diksa or siksa) to chastise otherwise there is the possibility of offense.

 

In order to be put on the track of the Absolute, listening to the words of the pure devotee is absolutely necessary. The spoken word of the Absolute is the Absolute. It is only the Absolute Who can give Himself away to the constituents of His power. The Absolute appears to the listening ear of the conditioned soul in the form of the name on the lips of the sadhu. This is the key to the whole position. The words of Thakura Bhaktivinode direct the empiric pedant to discard his wrong method and inclination on the threshold of the real quest of the Absolute. If the pedant still chooses to carry his errors into the realm of the Absolute Truth he only marches by the deceptive by-path into the regions of darker ignorance by his arrogant study of the scriptures. The method offered by Thakura Bhaktivinoda is identical with the object of the quest. The method is not really grasped except by the grace of the pure devotee. The arguments, indeed, are these. But they can only corroborate, but can never be a substitute for, the word from the living source of the Truth who is no other than the pure devotee of Krishna, the concrete Personal Absolute.

[Kulapavana]

Originally Posted by Beggar

Theist served ISKCON directly during Srila Prabhupada's manifest lila but did not take initiation for he felt unqualified. He also was directly in Srila Prabhupada's presence. Now he feels connected to Srila Prabhupada through his books. In my opinion, he does overly stress the books over connection with a living sadhu, but I certainly don't believe that he has nothing in his hand from his experience.

-----------------------------

I think the main reason he places so much stress on connecting through books is because HE has become connected first through a personal contact with Prabhupada. He may not now see that this is not a universal solution and that most people want a personal contect with a guru as well.

[Guruvani]

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 3.7.39 purport,

 

 

Sūris are great scholars, but they may not always be anagha, or spotless. The anagha-sūri is one who is a pure devotee of the Lord. Those who are not pure devotees of the Lord, or who want to be on an equal level with Him, are not anagha-sūri. Pure devotees have prepared many books of knowledge on the basis of authorized scriptures. Śrīla Rūpa Gosvāmī and his assistants, under the instructions of Lord Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, have all written various literatures for the guidance of prospective devotees, and anyone who is very serious about raising himself to the standard of a pure devotee of the Lord must take advantage of those literatures.

[Sarva gattah]

 

Originally Posted by Beggar I think the main reason theist places so much stress on connecting through books is because HE has become connected first through a personal contact with Prabhupada. He may not now see that this is not a universal solution and that most people want a personal contect with a guru as well.

 

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Ashvatama

The contribution Theist has done on these threads are wonderdul. I know of people who have read his comments, started reading Prabhupada's books and have moved into the ISKCON Temple.

 

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Two very good and true points

 

Quote:By Theist

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>There is no magic - it is simply love, and that is all magic. Beyond the mind's accept/reject path, the path of love carves its own way one foot at a time, one step at a time, following the eternal innate love of the jiva essence.

 

So don't ask 'when', for when is when you can't ask 'when'.

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[theist]

 

Quote:By Theist

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So don't ask 'when', for when is when you can't ask 'when'.

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This is gHaris statement that I quoted from him on another thread.

[theist]

It seems the subject of this thread has been forgotten. Let me mention the title once again.

 

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: navbar_link --> Question: Through a book can you contact the spiritual master???

So why not talk of meeting the spiritual master in his books on this thread? Or from another way, why speak of anything but the possibility of contacting the spiritual master on this thread?

[Kulapavana]

 

So why not talk of meeting the spiritual master in his books on this thread? Or from another way, why speak of anything but the possibility of contacting the spiritual master on this thread?

 

I have never met Srila Prabhupada in real life but I have been reading his books for almost 30 years. I never felt that there was any "meeting" or "contact" between us even as I see him as de facto my main spiritual guide (siksa guru). Over the years I have incorporated his teachings and ideas into practically all areas of my life. But he is certainly not the only spiritual guide I have, nor do I accept all of his ideas as practical, true, or actually needed in my life.

 

I accepted the bulk of Prabhupada's teachings and ideas because I found them to be true and valuable, and most of all: because they were based on shastra and the tradition I adopted as my own.

 

So what exactly is this "contact" and "meeting" you are talking about?

 

I feel connected to Prabhupada not in a personal sense, but in the sense of belonging to the same tradition, the same spiritual lineage, and in the sense of being indebted to him for bringing KC to the Western world and writing so many valuable books.

[sanatan]

 

I have never met Srila Prabhupada in real life but I have been reading his books for almost 30 years. I never felt that there was any "meeting" or "contact" between us even as I see him as de facto my main spiritual guide (siksa guru). Over the years I have incorporated his teachings and ideas into practically all areas of my life. But he is certainly not the only spiritual guide I have, nor do I accept all of his ideas as practical, true, or actually needed in my life.

 

I accepted the bulk of Prabhupada's teachings and ideas because I found them to be true and valuable, and most of all: because they were based on shastra and the tradition I adopted as my own.

 

.......

 

I feel connected to Prabhupada not in a personal sense, but in the sense of belonging to the same tradition, the same spiritual lineage, and in the sense of being indebted to him for bringing KC to the Western world and writing so many valuable books.

 

I couldn't describe my feelings about Srila Prabhupada better.

 

The sense of personal connection I have with SP is mainly from reading Satsvarupa Maharaja's Lilamrta and having known famous disciples Visnujana Maharaja and Tamal Krishna Maharaja, as well as a number of "regular" direct disciples.

 

15 years as a siksa disciple of TKG and SDG's Lilamrta and other writings were essential foundational elements in my spiritual life.

 

I will not take part in the vilification customarily heaped upon TKG and SDG.

 

Apologies for diverting from the thread topic.

[theist]

 

I have never met Srila Prabhupada in real life but I have been reading his books for almost 30 years. I never felt that there was any "meeting" or "contact" between us even as I see him as de facto my main spiritual guide (siksa guru). Over the years I have incorporated his teachings and ideas into practically all areas of my life. But he is certainly not the only spiritual guide I have, nor do I accept all of his ideas as practical, true, or actually needed in my life.

 

I accepted the bulk of Prabhupada's teachings and ideas because I found them to be true and valuable, and most of all: because they were based on shastra and the tradition I adopted as my own.

 

So what exactly is this "contact" and "meeting" you are talking about?

 

I feel connected to Prabhupada not in a personal sense, but in the sense of belonging to the same tradition, the same spiritual lineage, and in the sense of being indebted to him for bringing KC to the Western world and writing so many valuable books.

 

Very much the same position as me Kulapavana. Now you say you never met him in"real" life but have come to accept him as your siksa and main guru.

 

 

So what exactly is this "contact" and "meeting" you are talking about?

 

I would say meeting him has taken place for you in as much as you have taken instruction from him. Now as your siksa guru you offer respectful obeisances to him out of a sense of gratitude for his merciful instructions. When you bow to Srila Prabhupada are you bowing to an impersonal ideal in your mind personified by Srila Prabhupada or are you bowing to the person of Srila Prabhupada who is also an ideal example of a devotee? I have no doubt you take the personalist approach and accept that he is a living person who is your siksa guru. IOW's you bow to him as your living spiritual master.

 

Now you have had contact with his vani and accept him in that form as your main guru. That you have already done. Having contact with the vani of a pure devotee IS meeting him in the most significant way. That is actually the real "real life" way of meeting guru.

 

Two people enter a room, are introduced to Srila Prabhupada by his disciple and hear from him. One takes his instructions to heart and the other ignores him. To me the one who follows the instructions is the one who actually met Srila Prabhupada in a "real life" way and the other only very superfically. The difference is the acceptance of his vani.

 

Now take a third person whose only contact with Srila Prabhupada was through his vani. But he hears guru's voice in that vani and follows. What is the real life difference between him and the other person who was introduced to Srila Prabhupada and accepted his vani? I say very little to no difference. The third person may even follow that vani with greater care and realization then the other and that to me shows a greater connection then the one who was introduced to his vapuh and took his vani, but not as firmly.

 

Vani is everything. We meet Guru in real life on the plane of tanscendental sound vibration. And that has nothing to do if he is presently in an earthly body or not.

 

Sorry for being overly wordy.

[Kulapavana]

 

15 years as a siksa disciple of TKG and SDG's Lilamrta and other writings were essential foundational elements in my spiritual life.

 

 

The most "personal connection" I have ever made with Prabhupada was through SDG's "Lilamrita" and not through Prabhupada's books. For me Lilamrita was an excellent book. At one time (in late 80's) I went on pilgrimage to New York and re-traced all the places connected to Prabhupada, using the "Planting the Seed" volume of Lilamrita. It was very magical and very real. I felt Prabhupada's presence in those places, even as some experiences were not at all what I expected, like the Tompkins Square Park, which was very small and full of dog poop. Only a New Yorker would call such a place a "park"... Anywan, the overwhelming impression from that trip was: "Prabhupada left Vrajabhumi to come to this hell-hole to deliver people like me...wow! I am so grateful to him for this sacrifice".

[Beggar]

 

Vani is everything. We meet Guru in real life on the plane of tanscendental sound vibration. And that has nothing to do if he is presently in an earthly body or not.

 

The only way that we can experience the real vapu is through the vani. But why throw the vapu out with the bath water of the vani? The Truth is always harmonized in the middle, not in the extremes.

[theist]

 

The only way that we can experience the real vapu is through the vani. But why throw the vapu out with the bath water of the vani? The Truth is always harmonized in the middle, not in the extremes.

 

I have never suggested anything along the lines of throwing the vapuh out. Who do you say such things Beggar?

 

Time takes the vapuh out of our experience quickly. Srila Prabhupada worked so hard to leave us with tons of vani and he emphasized the vani through his vapuh as more important.