Humans Predate The Dinosaurs

[Rishi_L]

Gautama Buddha was once asked by his disciple Ananda about the antiquity of humankind. In response, he stated that if one were to stab a pin into the ground, there is not a single spot on any of the spaces on the crust of Earth that doesn't contain deteriorated human corpses. In other words, EVERY spot on the surface of our planet was once a human burial ground. If what Buddha said was true, then Earth as well as the existence of humans on it would have certainly been around for a long, long time. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

Gautama Buddha was once asked by his disciple Ananda about the antiquity of humankind. In response, he stated that if one were to stab a pin into the ground, there is not a single spot on any of the spaces on the crust of Earth that doesn't contain deteriorated human corpses. In other words, EVERY spot on the surface of our planet was once a human burial ground. If what Buddha said was true, then Earth as well as the existence of humans on it would have certainly been around for a long, long time. <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

 

Well, the present kalpa is slightly less than 2 billion years old, and humans have been in existence since then, practically. Followers of Vedic culture (Aryans) and less civilised folks alike have been around forever, so what you say certainly bears truth, albeit cremation is the standard way to dispose of corpses in our Dharma. However, burial holds sway in many non-Vedic milieus, so what you're quoting the Buddha on would be expected, one would imagine.

 

As for neo-Darwinism, some facets of it without a shadow of a doubt apply to nature as we perceive it, but the bulk of that theory is just that, unproven suppositions and conjectures, and those who try to stay abreast of the discussions taking place on this subject are cognizant of the extent to which old Charles's brainchild is getting stick from various quarters these days. Even a number of agnostics and sceptics now opine that, while the reasons for not believing in a Supreme Being might be many, the theory of evolution by natural selection is not one of them. And most of us here who are religiously inclined are predominantly motivated by a strong, intuitive conviction in the existence of the eternal atma. Hence, there is little time to be done away with in contemplating over an ideology that asserts the supremacy of dead matter over everything else.

[Rishi_L]

 

Well, the present kalpa is slightly less than 2 billion years old, and humans have been in existence since then, practically.

 

I thought the current kalpa began 2.3 billion years ago?

 

 

Followers of Vedic culture (Aryans) and less civilised folks alike have been around forever, so what you say certainly bears truth, albeit cremation is the standard way to dispose of corpses in our Dharma.

 

Yes, I know that cremation is the usual mode of corpse disposal when it comes to Vedic Dharma. That's why I found that quote by Sri Gautama Buddha to be somewhat odd at first, but then I realised that he was probably referring to those who don't follow Vedic Dharma (like you implied), such as mlecchas and asuras.

 

 

As for neo-Darwinism, some facets of it without a shadow of a doubt apply to nature as we perceive it, but the bulk of that theory is just that, unproven suppositions and conjectures, and those who try to stay abreast of the discussions taking place on this subject are cognizant of the extent to which old Charles's brainchild is getting stick from various quarters these days. Even a number of agnostics and sceptics now opine that, while the reasons for not believing in a Supreme Being might be many, the theory of evolution by natural selection is not one of them. And most of us here who are religiously inclined are predominantly motivated by a strong, intuitive conviction in the existence of the eternal atma. Hence, there is little time to be done away with in contemplating over an ideology that asserts the supremacy of dead matter over everything else.

 

I completely agree with you. Some aspects of Neo-Darwinism are observably true, such as microevolution (ie. variations within specific species) whilst other aspects seem quite doubtful, such as macroevolution (ie. one distinct species gradually becoming another distinct species).

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

I thought the current kalpa began 2.3 billion years ago?

 

Nopes, you can calculate the age it as follows:

 

(7 x 1,728,000) + (453 x 4,320,000) + (4,320,000 - 432,000 + 5,110) =

 

1,972,949,110 years;

 

with seven sandhyas each equivalent to the length of a Satya-yuga having elapsed, as well as 453 yuga cycles (6 manvantaras of 71 divya-yugas and 27 complete ones in the current one, i.e. the 7th Patriarchate of Manu), the whole added to one divya-yuga minus one Kali-yuga plus 5,110 years of the age of Kali, since most traditional authorities give the date of Feb. 18, 3,102 BCE, for the start of the present era.

 

As for the rest of your post, we both are in concordance with each other.

 

Radhe Radhe

[Rishi_L]

 

Nopes, you can calculate the age it as follows:

 

(7 x 1,728,000) + (453 x 4,320,000) + (4,320,000 - 432,000 + 5,110) =

 

1,972,949,110 years;

 

with seven sandhyas each equivalent to the length of a Satya-yuga having elapsed, as well as 453 yuga cycles (6 manvantaras of 71 divya-yugas and 27 complete ones in the current one, i.e. the 7th Patriarchate of Manu), the whole added to one divya-yuga minus one Kali-yuga plus 5,110 years of the age of Kali, since most traditional authorities give the date of Feb. 18, 3,102 BCE, for the start of the present era.

 

LoveroftheBhagavata Prabhu, to be honest, I'm not very certain about the mathematical calculations required to determine which moment we're living in during this current day of Brahma. I got my information from this page, which states that the current day of Brahma began 2 billion, 300 million years ago:

 

http://www.veda.harekrsna.cz/encyclopedia/brahma.htm#4

 

So this would mean that this mahayuga is the 454th mahayuga so far. A close friend of mine has also informed me that we are in the 28th mahayuga of the 7th manvantara in the current day of Brahma. Now, I don't necessarily think you're wrong or anything, it's just that I'm kinda getting mixed messages and it can get quite confusing sometimes.

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

You can go to any pandita in India and they'll confirm my statement. The reference you gave is wrong on this one count. We are indeed in the 454th chatur-yuga of the present day of Brahma, the Shveta-Varaha kalpa.

 

 

A close friend of mine has also informed me that we are in the 28th mahayuga of the 7th manvantara in the current day of Brahma.

 

This is right, and two sources that I know of which express this are the Chaitanya-charitamrita as well as the Sanskrit astronomical treatise called the Surya-siddhanta. There is a well-known mantra that priests term the sankalpa, widely recited across India and elsewhere at the beginning of certain pujas, that also contains this information, as well as other data such as the name, gotra, and location of the person performing the ritual. I hope that this helps.

[Sarva gattah]

A Magical mystery tour, could this be the real history of this planet?

Two things are happening simultaneously over millions of years,

 

• The living entity is evolving or coming up through the species of life on this planets surface
  
• The living entity is devolving or coming down from a higher celestial material realm.

When the dinosaurs where on the surface of this planet, advanced biological human species had not yet evolved due to the fact that biological evolutionary on the planets surface had not reached that stage of evolution.

So who where did the highly advanced beings that also exist at the same time within the atmoshere of this planet in previous yugas, come from??

The mundane scientist today cannot even perceive the 'subtle world' which makes up the majority of the material universe, let alone anything spiritual which is only possible for a pure devotees of Krishna to know.

The idea that Satya-yuga, Treta and the earlier parts of Dvapara-yuga, even though on this planet, existed in a higher realm of material reality, distinguished from the mundane evolution going on the surface of the planet, where the soul is evolving through bodily vessels or species until they reach the human specie, does make a lot of sense.

We find dinosaur bones but no evidence of very highly advanced societies, except a few remnants at the end of Dvapara-yuga,

 

Why is that so?

 

The human biological body is the panicle of that evolution of the soul that has come up or evolved from the floor of this planet however at the same time there existed higher beings who's bodily vessels were more ethereal with the ability is fly and live in massive cities in the sky, than biological and gross In this way, as each age became degraded, Satya, Tretta, Dvapada and Kali, the more those ethereal vessels becomes encased in biological heaver matter that extinguishes ALL their mystical powers.

All species of life on this planet, leads or evolves eventually to the many human species. These human tribes, coming up through the lower biological species or life, develop their own speculative beliefs in a God when they attain the earthly human primitive body.

On the other hand there is Knowledge (Veda) that comes down to this planet from the demigods from the celestial levels of material existence (the sub-space heavenly planets). Even still a part of the material universes, the Veda has been passed down like this to our planet.

The beginning of Kali-yuga is where the human tribes, born from coming up from the lower species and the celestial beings coming down from the heavenly planets, who followed the Vedas, crossed paths.

This was only possible due to the Dvapara-yuga being degraded into the beginning of Kali-yuga that allowed the lowly 'planet tribes' to invade and be eventually influenced by of the 'more celestial beings that followed the Vedas.

This is why Sanskrit is the language of the demigods.

 

 

Therefore Satya-yuga. Tretta-yuga and the most of the Dvapara, even though on this planet, must have been more celestial than earthly and existed in the sky of this planet rather than on the surface.

 

 

 

 

 

In other Yugas there were mystical powers, huge cities floating in the air, happening at the same time the mundane biological evolutionary process was going on the floor of the planet, that the 'celestials Vedic universal travellers' left alone.

This is why no evidence is found of the Satya, Tretta or Dvapara-yuga’s (except towards the end of Dvapara, when it has virtually been degraded down to the planets surface.

Then Krishna came right at the very end of Dvapara-yuga, then after the battle at Kurukshetra, the Kali-yuga began and the invasion of the primitive animal like barbaric human tribes, now had evolved enough to plunder the remanets of what was left from the Vedic culture.

In the process, some of these barbaric tribes adapted to many practises, from cooking to rituals and prayer that gradually influenced many 'gross worldly' primitive cultures, like tribes in the Indian region and may have even influenced Judaism though, the Vedic culture was so degraded by then, the influence was weak and scattered because most of the saintly sages had already left the planet, to escape the on coming storm of Kali-yuga.

What is degradation to the Vedic celestial interplanetary beings, where their presents on this planet had virtually disappeared by the time the age of Kali-yuga begins, is actually a blessing for the primitive humans that have evolved up from the evolution in the jungles on this planet?

[Rishi_L]

 

You can go to any pandita in India and they'll confirm my statement. The reference you gave is wrong on this one count. We are indeed in the 454th chatur-yuga of the present day of Brahma, the Shveta-Varaha kalpa.

 

Okay, I've just done some calculations of my own. Check this out and, if you can, at least tell me if you think it's accurate or not:

 

The Vaivasvat Manvantar began 306,289,094 years ago from the present day. As you've already stated, most traditional sources place us 5,110 years into this current Kali Yuga. Thus, there are 426,890 Earth years remaining until this Kali Yuga ends and a new Satya Yuga begins. Therefore, this Kali Yuga will come to an end during 428,898 AD. It is also believed that the 8th manvantar will begin when the next Satya Yuga begins. So I subtracted 306,720,000 from 428,898 and got a figure of -306,291,102 (ie. 306,291,102 years before the supposed birth of Christ). Then finally, I added the number '2008' (the year we're currently in according to the Christian calendar) and arrived at my figure of 306,289,094 years that I've already mentioned. 6 manvantars have already elapsed, so 306,720,000 x 6 equals 1,840,320,000 years. And because 7 sandhyas have also come and gone, that means we must add 12,096,000 (1,728,000 x 7 = 12,096,000) years to 1,840,320,000 years. This gives us a figure of 1,852,416,000 years. 453 mahayugas have now been completed (453 x 4,320,000 = 1,956,960,000), but there are 426,890 more years remaining until this 454th mahayuga has finished. So 3,893,110 years out of this 454th mahayuga have already elapsed. 3,893,110 + 1,956,960,000 = 1,960,853,110 years. In this current Vaivasvat Manvantar, 27 mahayugas have already finished which means 116,640,000 years have gone by so far along with the 3,893,110 years of this current 454th mahayuga. 116,640,000 + 3,893,110 = 120,533,110 years. 120,533,110 (the number of years that have gone by in this current Vaivasvat Manvantar) + 1,960,853,110 (the total length of time of each of the mahayugas that've elapsed so far, including the portion of the current 454th mahayuga that has currently elapsed) = 2,081,386,220 years

 

Vedic scholars such as Drutakarma Das and Sadaputa Das have said that the current day of Brahma began just slightly over 2 billion years ago, so the final number I've received in my calculations is certainly in line with such a claim. Yet I DO feel that I've made an error somewhere, but I don't know if I have. Feel free to correct me!

 

 

This is right, and two sources that I know of which express this are the Chaitanya-charitamrita as well as the Sanskrit astronomical treatise called the Surya-siddhanta. There is a well-known mantra that priests term the sankalpa, widely recited across India and elsewhere at the beginning of certain pujas, that also contains this information, as well as other data such as the name, gotra, and location of the person performing the ritual. I hope that this helps.

 

It does help! Thanks!

 

EDIT: Yup, I screwed up. I remember now that there are 71 mahayugas in each manvantar, so the 8th manvantar cannot possibly begin as soon as the next Satya Yuga begins. My friend has been telling me false things. Unintentionally, I hope. lol

[Rishi_L]

This is the page where I found out that Drutakarma Das/Michael Cremo believes that the current day of Brahma (Sveta Varaha Kalpa) began TWO billion years ago:

 

http://www.mcremo.com/vedic.htm

 

Every other site out of the dozens of sites I've checked out so far over the last couple of hours says either that the current kalpa simply began 2 billion years ago or provides a somewhat more precise figure of 2.3 billion years. Make of this what you want.

[Rishi_L]

 

A Magical mystery tour, could this be the real history of this planet?

Two things are happening simultaneously over millions of years,

 

• The living entity is evolving or coming up through the species of life on this planets surface
  
• The living entity is devolving or coming down from a higher celestial material realm.

When the dinosaurs where on the surface of this planet, advanced biological human species had not yet evolved due to the fact that biological evolutionary on the planets surface had not reached that stage of evolution.

So who where did the highly advanced beings that also exist at the same time within the atmoshere of this planet in previous yugas, come from??

The mundane scientist today cannot even perceive the 'subtle world' which makes up the majority of the material universe, let alone anything spiritual which is only possible for a pure devotees of Krishna to know.

The idea that Satya-yuga, Treta and the earlier parts of Dvapara-yuga, even though on this planet, existed in a higher realm of material reality, distinguished from the mundane evolution going on the surface of the planet, where the soul is evolving through bodily vessels or species until they reach the human specie, does make a lot of sense.

We find dinosaur bones but no evidence of very highly advanced societies, except a few remnants at the end of Dvapara-yuga,

 

Why is that so?

 

The human biological body is the panicle of that evolution of the soul that has come up or evolved from the floor of this planet however at the same time there existed higher beings who's bodily vessels were more ethereal with the ability is fly and live in massive cities in the sky, than biological and gross In this way, as each age became degraded, Satya, Tretta, Dvapada and Kali, the more those ethereal vessels becomes encased in biological heaver matter that extinguishes ALL their mystical powers.

 

Sarva, that is an intriguing theory. But even if Satya Yugas, Treta Yugas and most of the Dwapar Yugas each occurred on this planet at a subtle level of Reality, we must still account for the end of the Dwapar Yugas which occurred over 1 billion years ago! If I have understood the implications of your theory correctly, this would mean that the so-called 'anatomically modern' human species would have still existed on Earth at a gross physical level of Reality towards the end of each Dwapar Yuga (including the end of each Dwapar Yuga that occurred over a billion years ago).

[Sarva gattah]

 

Sarva, that is an intriguing theory. But even if Satya Yugas, Treta Yugas and most of the Dwapar Yugas each occurred on this planet at a subtle level of Reality, we must still account for the end of the Dwapar Yugas which occurred over 1 billion years ago! If I have understood the implications of your theory correctly, this would mean that the so-called 'anatomically modern' human species would have still existed on Earth at a gross physical level of Reality towards the end of each Dwapar Yuga (including the end of each Dwapar Yuga that occurred over a billion years ago).

 

According to the Vedic scriptures, our current age, known as Kali-yuga, is one of spiritual darkness, violence and hypocrisy. Srimad-Bhagavatam (12.2.31) records Kali-yuga as having begun when the constellation of the seven sages (saptarsi) passed through the lunar mansion of Magha. Hindu astrologers have calculated this to have been 2:27 a.m. on February 18, 3102 BC. This took place some 36 years after Lord Krsna spoke Bhagavad-gita to Arjuna.

Therefore approximately 5000 years ago the Dvapara yuga ended and the Kali-yuga begun. My theory is based on this assumption

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

Rishi_L, we are in Kali-yuga of the 28th divya-yuga of Vaivasvata manvantara. It began not 300 million years ago but is roughly about 120 million years old. By a simple calculation, 28 x 4,320,000 comes to 120,960,000, and we still have 427,000 or so to go in this current age, so the answer is more like 120,500,000 years. Yes, we have got 43 full chatur-yugas to be covered before the Savarni (8th) manvantara kicks in, when Bali Maharja shall act as Indra, so the info that was related to you is erroneous.

 

You can make of it what you want, but the present cosmic day is just under 2 billion years old, and if Cremo and Thompson believe otherwise, which I don't think is the case since I haven't come across it in any of their numerous books, ALL of which I do own and have read, that would place them at variance with the rest of the entire Vedic tradition. In passing, the figure I mentioned to you does figure in Cremo's book Forbidden Archaelogy's Impact.

 

Having said this, the whole of Hinduism, including Gaudiya Vaishnavas, work out their panjikas based on the material of the Surya-siddhanta and other jyotisha-shastras and just to give a comparable quote from the Caitanya-caritamrta, I'll copy and paste this:

 

CC: Adi CH. 3

 

TEXT 9

TEXT

 

‘vaivasvata’-näma ei saptama manv-antara

sätäiça catur-yuga tähära antara

 

SYNONYMS

vaivasvata-näma—named Vaivasvata; ei—this; saptama—seventh; manu-antara—period of Manu; sätäiça—twenty-seven; catuù-yuga—cycles of four ages; tähära—of that; antara—period.

 

TRANSLATION

The present Manu, who is the seventh, is called Vaivasvata [the son of Vivasvän]. Twenty-seven divya-yugas [27 x 4,320,000 solar years] of his age have now passed.

 

TEXT 10

TEXT

 

añöäviàça catur-yuge dväparera çeñe

vrajera sahite haya kåñëera prakäçe

 

SYNONYMS

añöäviàça—twenty-eighth; catuù-yuge—in the cycle of four ages; dväparera—of the Dväpara-yuga; çeñe—at the end; vrajera sahite—along with Vraja; haya—is; kåñëera—of Lord Kåñëa; prakäçe—manifestation.

 

TRANSLATION

At the end of the Dväpara-yuga of the twenty-eighth divya-yuga, Lord Kåñëa appears on earth with the full paraphernalia of His eternal Vraja-dhäma.

 

So what I told you is THE Vedic version. You can take it or leave it.

 

As a final note, by a first order of approximation, 2 billion years is a good round figure for 1,972,949,110, and is substantially closer to it than it is to 2.3 billion. I ignore how the VEDA folks came up with the latter figure, but it is indubitably wrong, and the entirety of the Hindu tradition would back me up on this one.

[Rishi_L]

 

Rishi_L, we are in Kali-yuga of the 28th divya-yuga of Vaivasvata manvantara. It began not 300 million years ago but is roughly about 120 million years old. By a simple calculation, 28 x 4,320,000 comes to 120,960,000, and we still have 427,000 or so to go in this current age, so the answer is more like 120,500,000 years. Yes, we have got 43 full chatur-yugas to be covered before the Savarni (8th) manvantara kicks in, when Bali Maharja shall act as Indra, so the info that was related to you is erroneous.

 

You can make of it what you want, but the present cosmic day is just under 2 billion years old, and if Cremo and Thompson believe otherwise, which I don't think is the case since I haven't come across it in any of their numerous books, ALL of which I do own and have read, that would place them at variance with the rest of the entire Vedic tradition. In passing, the figure I mentioned to you does figure in Cremo's book Forbidden Archaelogy's Impact.

 

Having said this, the whole of Hinduism, including Gaudiya Vaishnavas, work out their panjikas based on the material of the Surya-siddhanta and other jyotisha-shastras and just to give a comparable quote from the Caitanya-caritamrta, I'll copy and past this:

 

CC: Adi CH. 3

 

TEXT 9

TEXT

 

‘vaivasvata’-näma ei saptama manv-antara

sätäiça catur-yuga tähära antara

 

SYNONYMS

vaivasvata-näma—named Vaivasvata; ei—this; saptama—seventh; manu-antara—period of Manu; sätäiça—twenty-seven; catuù-yuga—cycles of four ages; tähära—of that; antara—period.

 

TRANSLATION

The present Manu, who is the seventh, is called Vaivasvata [the son of Vivasvän]. Twenty-seven divya-yugas [27 x 4,320,000 solar years] of his age have now passed.

 

TEXT 10

TEXT

 

añöäviàça catur-yuge dväparera çeñe

vrajera sahite haya kåñëera prakäçe

 

SYNONYMS

añöäviàça—twenty-eighth; catuù-yuge—in the cycle of four ages; dväparera—of the Dväpara-yuga; çeñe—at the end; vrajera sahite—along with Vraja; haya—is; kåñëera—of Lord Kåñëa; prakäçe—manifestation.

 

TRANSLATION

At the end of the Dväpara-yuga of the twenty-eighth divya-yuga, Lord Kåñëa appears on earth with the full paraphernalia of His eternal Vraja-dhäma.

 

So what I told you is THE Vedic version. You can take it or leave it.

 

As a final note, by a first order of approximation, 2 billion years is a good round figure for 1,972,949,110, and is substantially closer to it than it is to 2.3 billion. I ignore how the VEDA folks came up with the latter figure, but it is undubitably wrong, and the entirety of the Hindu tradition would back me up on this one.

 

LoveroftheBhagavata, your calculations are convincing and I do believe the veracity of your statements. Now I'd just like to find out HOW Vedabase could give a figure of 2,300,000,000 years! Vedabase is no longer as reliable as I once thought it was.

[Avinash]

LoveroftheBhagavata is right.

 

The four yugas together are called a Mahayuga.

1 Mahayuga = 4,320,000 years

One day of Brahma is called one kalpa.

1 Kalpa = 1000 Mahayugas

Also, there are 14 Manus in 1 Kalpa.

This means 1 Manu reins for 1000/14 Mahayugas

6 Manus have already come and gone.

The time period of 6 Manus = 6000/14 Mahayugas

= (6000/14)*4,320,000 years

= 1.85 billion years

Of the seventh Manu, 27 Mahayugas have completed. Of the 28th Mahayuga, Krit yuga, Treta yuga and Dwapar yuga are over. Of Kali yuga, approx. 5000 years are over.

Total duration of 1 Kali yuga = 432,000 years

This means that, of the seventh Manu, time period elapsed

= 28 Mahayugas - 1 Kaliyuga + 5000

= 28*4,320,000 - 432000 + 5000 years

= 0.12 billion years

Therefore, the current kalpa started 1.85 + 0.12 = 1.97 billion years ago.

Please note here 1 year means 360 day-nights (not 365 or 366).

[Avinash]

I think that the web page, which says 2.3 billion years, assumes that the current Manu is 8th Manu, though correct is 7th Manu.

Time period of 1 Manu = (1000/14)*4,320,000 years = 0.31 billion years

Adding this to 1.97 billion years, we get

(1.97 + 0.31)billion years = 2.28 billion years = 2.3 billion years approximately.

[Rishi_L]

 

I think that the web page, which says 2.3 billion years, assumes that the current Manu is 8th Manu, though correct is 7th Manu.

Time period of 1 Manu = (1000/14)*4,320,000 years = 0.31 billion years

Adding this to 1.97 billion years, we get

(1.97 + 0.31)billion years = 2.28 billion years = 2.3 billion years approximately.

 

Yes, that seems to make sense.

[Erik]

Check this link for more infromation.....the footsteps are 300 million years old,

 

 

 

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...9&id=667445070

 

so check it out......

[Rishi_L]

 

Check this link for more infromation.....the footsteps are 300 million years old,

 

 

 

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?ai...9&id=667445070

 

so check it out......

 

That would mean that those footprints are from the Carboniferous Period, right? If I remember correctly, the dinosaurs appeared on the scene about 220 million years ago towards the late Triassic Period, so that means that those footprints predate the existence of even the earliest dinosaurs! Humans rode on top of stegosaurs as a form of transport. That's INSANELY badass!

[Erik]

There is so much going on which we are unaware about, have you seen the UFO's in the Medieval paintings in my album ?

[Rishi_L]

 

have you seen the UFO's in the Medieval paintings in my album ?

 

Yes I have. I knew about them and saw them even before I saw them in your album.