Vaisnava Bible Study - Is Jesus Vaisnava?

[HerServant]

Jesus is Vaisnava, without exception and without doubt. This can be settled without any religion debate as we will just look at the oldest Christian record of Jesus' life.

 

The Gospel of Mark (circa 72AD)

 

"Mark," says Papias (according to the testimony of Eusebius,

[Ecclesiastical History, 3.39]), "becoming the interpreter of Peter,

wrote accurately, though not in order, whatever he remembered of what

was either said or done by Christ; for he was neither a hearer of the

Lord nor a follower of Him, but afterwards, as I said, [he was a

follower] of Peter, who arranged the discourses for use, but not

according to the order in which they were uttered by the Lord."

 

Irenaeus [Against Heresies, 3.1]: "Matthew published a Gospel while

Peter and Paul were preaching and founding the Church at Rome; and

after their departure (or decease), Mark, the disciple and interpreter

of Peter, he also gave forth to us in writing the things which were

preached by Peter."

 

Clement of Alexandria is still more specific, in a passage preserved

by Eusebius [Ecclesiastical History, 6.14]: "Peter having publicly

preached the word at Rome, and spoken forth the Gospel by the Spirit,

many of those present exhorted Mark, as having long been a follower of

his, and remembering what he had said, to write what had been spoken;

and that having prepared the Gospel, he delivered it to those who had

asked him for it; which, when Peter came to the knowledge of, he

neither decidedly forbade nor encouraged him."

 

"Mark, disciple and interpreter of Peter according to what he heard

Peter relate, wrote a brief Gospel as requested by the brothers in

Rome. When Peter heard, he approved and ordained it on his authority

for reading in the churches, just as Clement wrote in the sixth book

of the Hypotyposes, and Papias the Hierapolitan bishop. Peter also

mentioned this Mark in the first epistle, under the name of Babylon

figuratively signifying Rome: she who is in Babylon chosen together

with you, sends you greetings and so does Mark my son [1 Pet. 5:13].

 

"And so, he took the gospel which he put together and proceeded to

Egypt. First proclaiming Christ in Alexandria, he founded a church

with such teaching and self-control in life that she compels all

followers of Christ to her example. Further, Philo, the most brilliant

of the Jews, upon seeing the first church of Alexandria when it was

still Jewish, wrote a book about their dealings as if in praise of his

own people, and he handed down a remembrance of what he saw was done

in Alexandria under the instructor Mark in the same manner that Luke

relates that the believers of Jerusalem had everything in common.

 

"Mark died in the eighth year of Nero [emperor 54-68] and was buried

in Alexandria, Annianus succeeding him." [Jerome, De Viris Illustribus

8]

 

The Gospel of Mark

 

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

"Similarly, in the Christian world, the Bible is worshiped. It is a

fact that the Lord Jesus Christ is present by His words. Krishna is

also present by His words. These personalities, either God or the son

of God, who come from the transcendental world, keep their

transcendental identities without being contaminated by the material

world." (Krishna, The Reservoir of pleasure)

 

Bhaktijana: Does Jesus Christ reside in the Vaikunthas or Brahmaloka?

Prabhupada: No, Vaikuntha. He's person. Brahmaloka, Brahmaloka is

within this material world, and Vaikuntha, in the spiritual world.

(Boston Dec 23, 1969)

 

1:2 As it is written in Isaias the prophet: Behold I send my angel

before thy face, who shall prepare the way before thee.

1:3 The voice of one crying in the desert: Prepare ye the way of the

Lord, make straight his paths.

1:4 John was in the desert baptizing, and preaching the baptism of

penance, unto remission of sins.

1:5 And there went out to him all the country of Judea, and all they of

Jerusalem, and were baptized by him in the river of Jordan, confessing

their sins.

 

Commentary: "If persons who are very serious about being liberated

from material life hear the glories of Anantadeva from the mouth of a

spiritual master in the chain of disciplic succession, and if they

always meditate upon Sankarshana, the Lord enters the cores of their

hearts, vanquishes all the dirty contamination of the material modes

of nature, and cuts to pieces the hard knot within the heart, which

has been tied tightly since time immemorial by the desire to dominate

material nature through fruitive activities. Narada Muni, the son of

Lord Brahma, always glorifies Anantadeva in his father's assembly.

There he sings blissful verses of his own composition, accompanied by

his stringed instrument [or a celestial singer] known as Tumburu." (SB

5.25.8)

 

1:6 And John was clothed with camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about

his loins; and he ate locusts (bean) and wild honey.

1:7 And he preached, saying: There cometh after me one mightier than I,

the straps of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and loose.

 

1:8 I have baptized you with water; but he shall baptize you with the

Holy Ghost.

 

"Shri Krishna, the Personality of Godhead, who is the Paramatma [supersoul] in

everyone's heart and the benefactor of the truthful devotee, cleanses

desire for material enjoyment from the heart of the devotee who has

developed the urge to hear His messages, which are in themselves

virtuous when properly heard and chanted." (SB 1.2.17)

 

9 And it came to pass, in those days, Jesus came from Nazareth of

Galilee, and was baptized by John in the Jordan.

 

"Concealing Their innately perfect knowledge by Their humanlike

activities, those two omniscient Lords of the universe, Themselves the

origin of all branches of knowledge, next desired to reside at the

school of a spiritual master. Thus They approached Sandipani Muni, a

native of Kashi living in the city of Avanti." (SB 10.45.30-31)

 

10 And forthwith coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens

opened, and the Spirit as a dove descending, and remaining on him.

 

"All living entities, moving and nonmoving, receive their vital force,

their bodily strength and their very lives from the air. All of us

follow the air for our vital force, exactly as servants follow an

emperor. The vital force of air is generated from the original vital

force of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. May that Supreme Lord be

pleased with us." (SB 8.5.37)

 

"Although the false ego has no factual basis, it is perceived in many

forms - as the functions of the mind, speech, life air and bodily

faculties. But with the sword of transcendental knowledge, sharpened

by worship of a bona fide spiritual master, a sober sage will cut off

this false identification and live in this world free from all

material attachment." (SB 11.28.17)

 

11 And there came a voice from heaven: Thou art my beloved Son; in

thee I am well pleased.

12 And immediately the Spirit drove him out into the desert.

 

"The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is

directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on

a machine, made of the material energy." (BG 18.61)

 

13 And he was in the desert forty days and forty nights, and was

tempted by Satan; and he was with beasts, and the angels (agni devi) ministered to him.

14 And after that John was delivered up, Jesus came into Galilee,

preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

 

15 And saying: The time is accomplished, and the kingdom of God is at

hand: repent, and believe the gospel.

 

"Whenever and wherever there is a decline in religious practice, O

descendant of Bharata, and a predominant rise of irreligion - at that

time I descend Myself." (BG 4.7)

 

"To deliver the pious and to annihilate the miscreants, as well as to

reestablish the principles of religion, I Myself appear, millennium

after millennium." (BG 4.8)

 

"A short life in the land of Bharata-varsha is preferable to a life

achieved in Brahmaloka for millions and billions of years because even

if one is elevated to Brahmaloka, he must return to repeated birth and

death. Although life in Bharata-varsha, in a lower planetary system,

is very short, one who lives there can elevate himself to full Krishna

consciousness and achieve the highest perfection, even in this short

life, by fully surrendering unto the lotus feet of the Lord. Thus one

attains Vaikunthaloka, where there is neither anxiety nor repeated

birth in a material body." (SB 5.19.23)

 

16 And passing by the sea of Galilee, he saw Simon and Andrew his

brother, casting nets into the sea (for they were fishermen).

17 And Jesus said to them: Come after me, and I will make you to

become fishers of men.

18 And immediately leaving their nets, they followed him.

19 And going on from thence a little farther, he saw James the son of

Zebedee, and John his brother, who also were mending their nets in the

ship:

20 And forthwith he called them. And leaving their father Zebedee in

the ship with his hired men, they followed him.

 

nitya parshadas nitya lila

"The glories of Lord Nityananda's transcendental attributes are

unfathomable. Even Lord Shesha, with His thousands of mouths, cannot

find their limit." (CC Adi 5.234)

 

Lord Nityananda has as eternal associates twelve gopalas (cowherd

boys). In Krishna and Chaitanya-lila their names are:

 

Shridama (Ramadasa Abhirama of Khanakul-Krishnanagar in Hooghly),

Sudama (Sundarananda Thakura, brahmana ascetic), Vasudama

(Dhananjaya), Subala (Gauridasa Pandita), Mahabala (Kamalakara

Pipalai), Subahu (Uddharana Datta), Mahabahu (Mahesa Pandita),

Stokakrishna (Purushottama), Arjuna (Parameshvara Dasa), Dama

(Purushottama Nagara), Labanga (Kala Krishnadasa), Madhumangala, or

Kusumasava (Shridhara). (from CC Adi 11.13 on, Steven Rosen,

"Panca-tattva", 3.40 - p. 94)

[HerServant]

 

21 And they entered into Capharnaum, and forthwith upon the sabbath

days going into the synagogue (from sanga), he taught them.

22 And they were astonished at his doctrine. For he was teaching them

as one having power, and not as the scribes (smarta brahmanas.).

23 And there was in their synagogue a man with an unclean spirit; and

he cried out,

24 Saying: What have we to do with thee, Jesus of Nazareth? art thou

come to destroy us? I know who thou art, the Holy One of God.

25 And Jesus threatened him, saying: Speak no more, and go out of the

man.

26 And the unclean spirit tearing him, and crying out with a loud

voice, went out of him.

27 And they were all amazed, insomuch that they questioned among

themselves, saying: What thing is this? what is this new doctrine? for

with power he commandeth even the unclean spirits, and they obey him.

 

"I wander alone at night killing fish in solitary places, but because

I remember the hymn to Lord Nrsimha, ghosts do not touch me." (CC

Antya 18.57)

 

om hrim kshraum ugram viram maha-vishnum jvalantam sarvato mukham

nrsimham bhishanam bhadram mrtyur mrtyum namamy aham

 

"I bow down to Lord Nrsimhadeva who is ferocious and heroic like Lord

Visnu. He is burning from every side. He is terrific, auspicious and

the death of death personified."

 

28 And the fame of him was spread forthwith into all the country of

Galilee.

29 And immediately going out of the synagogue they came into the house

of Simon and Andrew, with James and John.

30 And Simon's wife's mother lay in a fit of a fever: and forthwith

they tell him of her.

31 And coming to her, he lifted her up, taking her by the hand; and

immediately the fever left her, and she ministered unto them.

 

"When Vasudeva, the leper brahmana, was lamenting due to

not being able to see Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, the Lord immediately

returned to that spot and embraced him." (CC Madhya 7.140)

 

"When Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu touched him, both the leprosy and his

distress went to a distant place. Indeed, Vasudeva's body became very

beautiful, to his great happiness." (CC Madhya 7.141)

 

32 And when it was evening, after sunset, they brought to him all that

were ill and that were possessed with devils.

33 And all the city was gathered together at the door.

34 And he healed many that were troubled with divers diseases; and he

cast out many devils, and he suffered them not to speak, because they

knew him.

 

"After circumambulating the tomb of Haridasa Thakura, Shri Chaitanya

Mahaprabhu went to the Simha-dvara gate of the Jagannatha temple. The

whole city chanted in congregation, and the tumultuous sound vibrated

all over the city." (CC Antya 11.72)

 

35 And rising very early, going out, he went into a desert place: and

there he prayed.

 

"All the people who lived near Akrura-tirtha came to see

Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, and due to the large crowds, the Lord could

not peacefully chant the holy name." (CC Madhya 18.79)

 

"Therefore Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu would go to Vrndavana and sit in

a solitary place, where He would chant the holy name until noon." (CC

Madhya 18.80)

 

36 And Simon, and they that were with him, followed after him.

37 And when they had found him, they said to him: All seek for thee.

38 And he saith to them: Let us go into the neighbouring towns and

cities, that I may preach there also; for to this purpose am I come.

 

In every town and village, the chanting of My name will be preached."

(Chaitanya Bhagavata, Antya 4.126)

 

"I offer innumerable obeisances unto the lotus feet of Shri Nityananda

Prabhu, who is so kind that He spread the service of Shri Chaitanya

Mahaprabhu all over the world." (CC Madhya 1.26)

 

39 And he was preaching in their synagogues, and in all Galilee, and

casting out devils.

40 And there came a leper to him, beseeching him, and kneeling down

said to him: If thou wilt, thou canst make me clean.

41 And Jesus having compassion on him, stretched forth his hand; and

touching him, saith to him: I will. Be thou made clean.

42 And when he had spoken, immediately the leprosy departed from him,

and he was made clean.

43 And he strictly charged him, and forthwith sent him away.

44 And he saith to him: See thou tell no one; but go, shew thyself to

the high priest, and offer for thy cleansing the things that Moses

commanded, for a testimony to them.

 

"Being meek and humble, the brahmana Vasudeva worried that

he would become proud after being cured by the grace of Shri Chaitanya

Mahaprabhu." (CC Madhya 7.146)

 

"To protect the brahmana, Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu advised him to

chant the Hare Krishna mantra incessantly. By doing so, he would never

become unnecessarily proud." (CC Madhya 7.147)

 

"Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu also advised Vasudeva to preach about

Krishna and thus liberate living entities. As a result, Krishna would

very soon accept him as His devotee." (CC Madhya 7.148)

 

45 But he being gone out, began to publish and to blaze abroad the

word: so that he could not openly go into the city, but was without in

desert places: and they flocked to him from all sides.

 

See: Madhya 1.152,164, 4.145, 7.106, 9.40,.89,326, 16.207-9, 25.173-6,

Antya 9.11-12, etc.

[matarisvan]

Vaishnava is a sanskrit work. Do you know what it means? Please do not invent your own meanings. Learn basic sanskrit and know what you are talking about.

 

Jesus was not a Vaishnava. The bible does not say he was a devotee of Vishnu. If we want to call everyone we like a Vaishnava then will you call shaivas as vaishnavas? They are worshipping the supreme just like us. Then all theists in the world are Vaishnavas which is totally not what the word means.

 

This is what happens when people try to talk confidently without knowing simple basics.

[theist]

I am convinced that if one cannot see that Jesus, or as Srila Prabhupada would always say, Lord Jesus Christ,is a Vaisnava then they have no understanding of what a Vaisnava is.

 

The above poster thinks Vishnu is a god for those that live in India and read sanskrit instead of the One unlimited Supreme Personality of Godhead that pervades all existence.

 

This is tantamount to having placed one toe into the shallow wading end of the pool and thinking he is now swimming in the deep end.

 

First get all the way into the water matarisvan, then learn to swim and then Krsna will lead you from the heart into the deep end of the pool.

 

We are all wadders here for sure but you have only one wet toe at this point so you are the beginner of the wadders.

[Beggar]

 

 

[bhaktajan]

Jesu Cristo Died to be re-born = You are the soul not the body

 

The Postings by herservant are fervent and demonstrate a devotional sentiment that is admirable in its self--but lacking in proper scholarship.

 

One must consult the original Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew original text(s) inorder to better find hidden spiritual parallel maxims.

 

The glory of Srila Prabhupada is that he provides us with pristine versions of ancient text that heretofore was unobtainable, thus paving a way for countless 'sanskrit' scholars. Linguistically, we Vaishnava intellectuals are tired of combing though arcane texts that seem to be so obviously convoluted from the almost every word--so much fluff with so little nectar to derive for the effort.

 

Since Avataras appear according to time, place and mentality of the general population--it is my opinion that the meanings behind the advent and earthly pastimes of our Favorite Boddhisattva: Jesu Cristo was plain and simple as per the common polulace and an era that preceeded him and especially for the era proceeding him:

 

"Jesus died and rose from the dead" -- this is the sum and substance of his buisness here on earth 2000 years ago.

 

this is beause:

The first rule for beginner of Yoga life is:

"We are not this material body, we are spirit souls in this material world".

 

Thus, any simply and uneducated common person living in the Roman empire and throughout the known world at that time would be forced to reconcile the gosple of Christ's pastimes and immediately conceed that 'the soul is not temporal but transcendental, etc etc etc., and all conceeded with nothing other than faith to anchor this Philosophcal maxim'--such a thing is on its on strength enough to set the course of history for the proceeding two centuries . . .

 

Anyone who disputes this simply must look at the example of Jusus Christ.

 

"A soul is a soul is a soul is a soul."

 

"What's in a name? That which we call a soul

By any other name would smell as sweet."

ys,

Bhaktajan

[Baobabtree]

Jesus was not a Vaishnava, but a preacher of a religion which taught many of the same moral principles as Vaishnavism, and like Vaishnavism had a clear understanding of God, that has led millions of people to Moksha.

[matarisvan]

 

The above poster thinks Vishnu is a god for those that live in India and read sanskrit instead of the One unlimited Supreme Personality of Godhead that pervades all existence.

 

 

Another pseudo scholar on this board. You lack even the basic understanding of what a language is. A language is a set of words each containing an established definition. It is not for you or anyone else to just come along and change the definition because you do not like the original definition.

 

Are you ready to say shaivas and muslims are vaishnavas?

 

vaishnava, shaiva, mayavada, dvaita, advaita have been defined long back and cannot be changed by you or any other foreign born christian just because you lack sanskrit knowledge. This is a display of extreme arrogance.

[HerServant]

 

Jesu Cristo Died to be re-born = You are the soul not the body

 

The Postings by herservant are fervent and demonstrate a devotional sentiment that is admirable in its self--but lacking in proper scholarship.

 

One must consult the original Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew original text(s) inorder to better find hidden spiritual parallel maxims.

 

The glory of Srila Prabhupada is that he provides us with pristine versions of ancient text that heretofore was unobtainable, thus paving a way for countless 'sanskrit' scholars. Linguistically, we Vaishnava intellectuals are tired of combing though arcane texts that seem to be convaluted from the almost every word--so much fluff with so little nectar to derive for the effort.

 

Since Avataras appear according to time, place and mentality of the general population--it is my opinion that the meanings behind the advent and earthly pastimes of our Favorite Boddhisattva: Jesu Cristo was plain and simple as per the common polulace and an era that preceeded him and especially for the era proceeding him:

 

"Jesus died and rose from the dead" -- this is the sum and substance of his buisness here on earth 2000 years ago.

 

this is beause:

The first rule for beginner of Yoga life is:

"We are not this material body, we are spirit souls in this material world".

 

Thus, any simply and uneducated common person living in the Roman empire and throughout the known world at that time would be forced to reconcile the gosple of Christ's pastimes and immediately conceed that 'the soul is not temporal but transcendental, etc etc etc., and all conceeded with nothing other than faith to anchor this Philosophcal maxim'--such a thing is on its on strength enough to set the course of history for the proceeding two centuries . . .

 

Anyone who disputes this simply must look at the example of Jusus Christ.

 

"A soul is a soul is a soul is a soul."

 

"What's in a name? That which we call a soul

By any other name would smell as sweet."

ys,

Bhaktajan

 

.... but the subject of the thread is "Is Jesus Vaisnava?"

 

I don't profess or desire to prove something about religion (e.g. Christianity).

 

From my limited understanding, the Vaisnava is beyond religion.

 

So this thread aims to answer the question: "Is Jesus Vaisnava?" or is He not Vaisnava.

 

I have selected the Gospel of Mark as a reference text to understand the Personality of Jesus because the Gospel of Mark is considered the oldest.

 

So I will continue to ask if Jesus' teachings and His life are Vaisnava.

 

Why Christ died is another subject.

[HerServant]

 

1 And again he entered into Capharnaum after some days. 2 And it was heard that he was in the house. And many came together, so that there was no room: no, not even at the door. And he spoke to them the word. 3 And they came to him, bringing one sick of the palsy, who was carried by four. 4 And when they could not offer him unto him for the multitude, they uncovered the roof where he was: and opening it, they let down the bed wherein the man sick of the palsy lay. 5 And when Jesus had seen their faith, he saith to the sick of the palsy: Son, thy sins are forgiven thee. 6 And there were some of the scribes sitting there and thinking in their hearts: 7 Why doth this man speak thus? He blasphemeth. Who can forgive sins, but God only? 8 Which Jesus presently knowing in his spirit that they so thought within themselves, saith to them: Why think you these things in your hearts? 9 Which is easier, to say to the sick of the palsy: Thy sins are forgiven thee; or to say: Arise, take up thy bed and walk? 10 But that you may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins (he saith to the sick of the palsy): 11 I say to thee: Arise. Take up thy bed and go into thy house. 12 And immediately he arose and, taking up his bed, went his way in the sight of all: so that all wondered and glorified God, saying: We never saw the like.

- Mark 2:1-12

 

Jesus preaches the word, forgives sin (heals the heart) , then heals the body. As a result of His preaching of ( forgiving, healing ) "all wondered (contemplated upon) and glorified God"

 

 

Vaisnava or not a Vaisnava?

[shvu]

 

vaishnava, shaiva, mayavada, dvaita, advaita have been defined long back and cannot be changed by you or any other foreign born christian just because you lack sanskrit knowledge. This is a display of extreme arrogance.

 

It is not arrogance...I think it is time to reveal the solemn secret which will clear up the air. Iskcon does not adhere to Amarakosha or Merriam webster. They have their own custom dictionaries which are safely hidden in a top secret location. These dictionaires summarily override all the known dictionaries in the world, period. At their discretion, Chicago may mean Dallas, Guava may actually mean Apple (only igonorant people see them as different) and blue may well be green.

 

Once you sign up to the organization and prove your mettle, then one full moon day you are taken along this secret passage through a hidden gateway into an ivory room where these dictionaries embedded with rubies and pearls and wrapped in fine silk are placed in a locked golden casket guarded by a talking King cobra with 5 heads. For the curious, the cobra speaks english/sanskrit/Bengali with a male voice of about 30 years of age. Needless to say, lacking qualifications myself, I have not had the good fortune to lay my eyes on these dictionaries or the talking cobra. However, based on past discussions with some of our esteemed colleagues here who have access to these dictionaries, I am aware of some of the "alternate" meanings which I will present here.

 

Vedic

Standard - of or related to the four vedas

Iskcon version: All Hare Krishna beliefs and practices right upto their Prasadam recipes

 

Hinduism

Standard - The superset of the religious beliefs of of India

ISkcon version - Nonsense/hodge podge/meaningless/coined by Muslims

 

Sanathana Dharma

Standard - New name of Hinduism

Iskcon version - the original ancient name of the Hare Krishna belief. The only true Dharma

 

Vaishnava

Standard - worshipper of Vishnu

Iskcon version - anything as defind by a Hare Krishna. Open license as long as Jesus is included

 

Shaiva

Standard - worshipper of Shiva

Iskcon version - demigod worshippers for material needs...hell bound.

 

Mayavada

Standard - Another name for the Advaita Philosophy of Shankara

Iskcon version - Anything that differs from Hare Krishna beliefs. Mcdonalds, Shaivas, Jews, Atheists, Christians who do not accept Krishna because he is not in the bible, Hindus who do not accept Jesus as a Vaishnava as he is not in Vaishnava scriptures....anyone

 

Cheers

[bhaktajan]

There was more to Jesus's knowledge and mission, but he said that he could not yet reveal, at that time and place.

 

All Avataras and all the Devatas worship Visnu [as Srila Prabhupada says].

 

All avataras preach as per time and place.

 

Jesus was so empowered that he could have performed much more elaborate pastimes ie: take the thrown of the David etc but he didn't --it was a lousy time and place for avataras.

 

The workings of saving souls occurs between long stretches of time during which much suffering is the rule. This is par for the course in the material world especially during the wind-down time of the cycles of 4 ages.

 

"We are not the body we are spirit souls" --everyone in history up until the present is beholding to Jesus for this revelation. Now, Herservant, with this transendant information: 'hit the ground running'.

 

ys,

Bhaktajan

[theist]

 

Another pseudo scholar on this board. You lack even the basic understanding of what a language is. A language is a set of words each containing an established definition. It is not for you or anyone else to just come along and change the definition because you do not like the original definition.

 

Are you ready to say shaivas and muslims are vaishnavas?

 

vaishnava, shaiva, mayavada, dvaita, advaita have been defined long back and cannot be changed by you or any other foreign born christian just because you lack sanskrit knowledge. This is a display of extreme arrogance.

 

I am willing to say that anyone, on any planet, in any universe, and uaing whatever language they use to utter His name and who bows before the One Supreme Personality of Godhead is a Vaisnava.

 

Guess what little boy...the world is bigger than the yard around your house and the Supreme Lord is Lord of everyone and not just Hindus.

[Sarva gattah]

I remember in 1973 we first went to Tassi and Gopikantha was being harassed by Jesus fundamentalists, he just wanted to distributed Prabhupadas books remembering that if you talk to Christians nut cases, you will just become one. So he acted dumb saying he never heard of the bloke, asking them which team does he play for and what position does he play in. Eventually these nut cases gave up and he was able to distribute Prabhupada's books without any interuptions. I had one talking in tonges around me, that is until we got the Mrdunga drum and cartels and stated chanting Hare Krishna.

 

Footnote - I have the uttmost respect for Jesus, after all, it was him I prayed to in the Cathedral in Melbourne who I believe answered my prayers by sending me to Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya, on Lord Caitanya's appearance day 1972, the day I 'shaved up'

 

The fact is Jesus has passed the batton on to a new generation, a new Religion to the West. There is no need to read the Bible anymore now that we have the Srimad Bhagavatam etc

[krishnadasa]

 

I remember in 1973 we first went to Tassi and Gopikantha was being harassed by Jesus fundamentalists, he just wanted to distributed Prabhupadas books remembering that if you talk to Christians nut cases, you will just become one. So he acted dumb saying he never heard of the bloke, asking them which team does he play for and what position does he play in. Eventually these nut cases gave up and he was able to distribute Prabhupada's books without any interuptions. I had one talking in tonges around me, that is until we got the Mrdunga drum and cartels and stated chanting Hare Krishna.

 

Footnote - I have the uttmost respect for Jesus, after all, it was him I prayed to in the Cathedral in Melbourne who I believe answered my prayers by sending me to Srila Prabhupada and Lord Caitanya, on Lord Caitanya's appearance day 1972, the day I 'shaved up'

 

The fact is Jesus has passed the batton on to a new generation, a new Religion to the West. There is no need to read the Bible anymore now that we have the Srimad Bhagavatam etc

 

Perfect, Haribol

[HerServant]

 

 

The fact is Jesus has passed the batton on to a new generation, a new Religion to the West. There is no need to read the Bible anymore now that we have the Srimad Bhagavatam etc

 

Actually, I don't have much objection to the above statements.

 

I think Jesus, from the beginning passed the batton to His disciples, and my studies have taught me that this part of the importance of parampara.

 

I also believe that Srimad Bhagavatam is a sacred and holy book, or as its title Srimad Bhagavatam states: "The Holy Book of God"

 

I also believe that a person should develop their faith in one authentic tradition, and not study the faith of an another tradition too much.

 

When one's faith in the Lord is firmly established, then it is possible to study teachings outside of one's own tradition.

 

You may ask, "why study Jesus?" if you are a Vaisnava. The same exact question is asked of me from Christians regarding study of "Srimad Bhagavatam", i.e. "why study SB if you have bible?"

 

My answer is simple.

 

1. I desired to study both because I want to know about everything that God, the Almighty Lord and Father revealed to the people on this planet.

 

2. After sincere, though imperfect (due to my limitations) study, I have concluded that the two traditions (Jesus' and Krsna's) are meant to be understood TOGETHER.

 

If you are a religious, and perhaps an initiated devotee of Krsna's cult, at some point in time, you will be confronted with the revelation of Jesus. It may be from friend, classmate, evangelist, or family member. You will be asked for a sincere opinion about Jesus. Not a religious opinion. Not who you think He is in a theological sense, but as a teacher. If your answer is not sincere, then you will discredit the integrity of your own line, particularly if your audience is educated.

 

On the other hand, if you are a Christian of any particular cult (sect), and truly desire to follow Jesus, particularly in this "Information Age", you sincerely have to dig deep to find the real, and often "hidden" meanings in the bible. A sincere inquiry will bring you to the Vedas, and by the Vedas, many mysteries of Jesus' teachings are brought to light.

 

I don't disagree that the Srimad Bhagavatam contains the "creme de la creme" of Spiritual Science. However, it was not possible for me to understand anything in Srimad Bhagavatam without Jesus (remember I am a lifelong catholic and growing up in the cult of Mary and surrounded by Marian devotees)

 

But as AncientMariner recently posted "The Fame of Jesus is Indestructible"

 

It is a fact. And as the eastern world becomes more and more industrialized, the questions about Jesus (from Vaisnavas, Shavaites, Advaitist, Buddhists, will continue to grow).

 

I maintain therefore, this is a good thread for many of us.

 

If it "shakes the faith" of some who read it, then please stop reading! And I would encourage you to stick with what gives you peace.

 

For me, I have to continue on this road, as my prayer has been that Son reveal the Father. So I surrender my heart and mind to the feet of Jesus and leave to Him to reveal the mysteries of Srimad Bhagavatam.

[Baobabtree]

The fact is Jesus has passed the batton on to a new generation, a new Religion to the West. There is no need to read the Bible anymore now that we have the Srimad Bhagavatam etc

Well, I certainly don't think a Vaishnava necessarily needs to follow or study the Bible, but like the Srimad Bhagavatam, and the Bhagavad Gita many of the New testament's teachings are of great importance to the spiritual growth of men.

[yogesh]

"Jesus was not vaisnava --but he was sent by Visnu"

made in the earliar post says it all.

If you accept that Jesus was sent by Lord Vishnu to attract people to worship his father (Lord Vishnu) and another post stated that one who worships Lord Visnu is a Vaishnava.

Then guess what..... yes Ladies & Gentelman the verdict is clear and we can logically surmise that.......Jesus is Vaishnava.

HariBol!!!

Hare Krsna/Krishna

Jay Sirla Prabhupada

[CCC]

 

Actually, I don't have much objection to the above statements.

 

I think Jesus, from the beginning passed the batton to His disciples, and my studies have taught me that this part of the importance of parampara.

 

I also believe that Srimad Bhagavatam is a sacred and holy book, or as its title Srimad Bhagavatam states: "The Holy Book of God"

 

I also believe that a person should develop their faith in one authentic tradition, and not study the faith of an another tradition too much.

 

When one's faith in the Lord is firmly established, then it is possible to study teachings outside of one's own tradition.

 

You may ask, "why study Jesus?" if you are a Vaisnava. The same exact question is asked of me from Christians regarding study of "Srimad Bhagavatam", i.e. "why study SB if you have bible?"

 

My answer is simple.

 

1. I desired to study both because I want to know about everything that God, the Almighty Lord and Father revealed to the people on this planet.

 

2. After sincere, though imperfect (due to my limitations) study, I have concluded that the two traditions (Jesus' and Krsna's) are meant to be understood TOGETHER.

 

If you are a religious, and perhaps an initiated devotee of Krsna's cult, at some point in time, you will be confronted with the revelation of Jesus. It may be from friend, classmate, evangelist, or family member. You will be asked for a sincere opinion about Jesus. Not a religious opinion. Not who you think He is in a theological sense, but as a teacher. If your answer is not sincere, then you will discredit the integrity of your own line, particularly if your audience is educated.

 

On the other hand, if you are a Christian of any particular cult (sect), and truly desire to follow Jesus, particularly in this "Information Age", you sincerely have to dig deep to find the real, and often "hidden" meanings in the bible. A sincere inquiry will bring you to the Vedas, and by the Vedas, many mysteries of Jesus' teachings are brought to light.

 

I don't disagree that the Srimad Bhagavatam contains the "creme de la creme" of Spiritual Science. However, it was not possible for me to understand anything in Srimad Bhagavatam without Jesus (remember I am a lifelong catholic and growing up in the cult of Mary and surrounded by Marian devotees)

 

But as AncientMariner recently posted "The Fame of Jesus is Indestructible"

 

It is a fact. And as the eastern world becomes more and more industrialized, the questions about Jesus (from Vaisnavas, Shavaites, Advaitist, Buddhists, will continue to grow).

 

I maintain therefore, this is a good thread for many of us.

 

If it "shakes the faith" of some who read it, then please stop reading! And I would encourage you to stick with what gives you peace.

 

For me, I have to continue on this road, as my prayer has been that Son reveal the Father. So I surrender my heart and mind to the feet of Jesus and leave to Him to reveal the mysteries of Srimad Bhagavatam.

 

Wonderful post Herservant, I agree with you %100

 

When I read the bible and other scriptures I understand better the Teaching fo Lord Krsna and viceversa. An example is that the Truth is like a sphere and for conceiving his form one should see all possible points of view and one will see that in essence in all points of view we will see no difference, the same spherical shape.

[raghu]

 

Jesus is Vaisnava, without exception and without doubt. This can be settled without any religion debate as we will just look at the oldest Christian record of Jesus' life.

 

 

I am convinced that if one cannot see that Jesus, or as Srila Prabhupada would always say, Lord Jesus Christ,is a Vaisnava then they have no understanding of what a Vaisnava is.

 

Regarding who is and who is not a Vaishnava as per gaudiya vaishnava philosophy, here is the opinion of Sanatana gosvami, one of the sampradaya acharyas of gaudiya vaishnavism and a direct disciple of Sri Chaithanya:

 

 

<CENTER>grhitaivisnudiksako visnu-pujaparo narah

vaisnavo 'bhihito 'bhijnairitaro 'smadavaisnavah

</CENTER>

"One who is initiated into the Vaishnava mantra and who is devoted to worshipping Lord Vishnu/Krishna is a Vaishnava. One who is devoid of these practices is not a Vaishnava. (quote from Hari-bhakti-vilas,11, quoted from Padma Purana)

 

This is a very unambiguous and exclusionary statement. If one wants to accept that Jesus is a Vaishnava, then one should show that he worshipped Vishnu and that he was initiated into a Vaishnava mantra.

 

It is not sufficient to say that all gods are the same God or that all mantras are ultimately Vaishanva mantras - that is nothing more than a convenient misrepresentation of facts to force a square peg to fit into a round hole. All religions attribute omnipresence, omniscience, omnipotence, and other common attributes to their God-figures, but that does not mean they are all derived from the same God concept.

 

By such standards, Jesus cannot be considered a Vaishnava by any gaudiya vaishnava who wants to retain a semblance of intellectual honesty. Of course, gaudiyas may feel free to disagree with their own acharya, which is perfectly fine by me!

[theist]

 

"One who is initiated into the Vaishnava mantra and who is devoted to worshipping Lord Vishnu/Krishna is a Vaishnava. One who is devoid of these practices is not a Vaishnava. (quote from Hari-bhakti-vilas,11, quoted from Padma Purana)

 

This is supposed to prove what exactly in terms of Jesus Christ? Seems like you are still hung up on God only having sanskrit names which is beyond childish. Are you saying that Jesus Christ did not worship the Supreme Lord or something.

 

Did Hiranyakasipu have Prahlada Maharaja initiated into a vaisnava mantra? So was he then not a vaisnava?

 

How about Prithu Maharaja? Parasurama? You have to learn to judge by the qualities and not think you can tell who is a vaisnava by trying to check out the initiation ceremony pedigrees.

 

Anyway I have nothing further to say to you that isn't in my previous posts. I find Hindu fanatics to be more interesting in such disagreements then Christian fanatics but ultimately both are the same waste of time.

 

Chant the names of God. According to Lord Caitanya He has hundreds and millions of names. Pick your favorite and reconnect with Him.

[matarisvan]

 

This is supposed to prove what exactly in terms of Jesus Christ? Seems like you are still hung up on God only having sanskrit names which is beyond childish. Are you saying that Jesus Christ did not worship the Supreme Lord or something.

 

Did Hiranyakasipu have Prahlada Maharaja initiated into a vaisnava mantra? So was he then not a vaisnava?

 

How about Prithu Maharaja? Parasurama? You have to learn to judge by the qualities and not think you can tell who is a vaisnava by trying to check out the initiation ceremony pedigrees.

 

Anyway I have nothing further to say to you that isn't in my previous posts. I find Hindu fanatics to be more interesting in such disagreements then Christian fanatics but ultimately both are the same waste of time.

 

Chant the names of God. According to Lord Caitanya He has hundreds and millions of names. Pick your favorite and reconnect with Him.

 

You are essentially saying the Guru who quoted that definition of a Vaishnava was wrong and you are right. Juste like you said standard dictionaries are incorrect and you have the correct definition.

 

When you make such statements who are you expecting to take you seriously? You are making a complete fool of yourself.

[raghu]

 

This is supposed to prove what exactly in terms of Jesus Christ?

 

It shows that he would not be considered a Vaishnava as per the definition of "Vaishnava" given by your gaudiya vaishnava acharya.

 

 

Seems like you are still hung up on God only having sanskrit names which is beyond childish.

 

God can have whatever names He likes, but it does not follow that just any name is a name of God.

 

 

Are you saying that Jesus Christ did not worship the Supreme Lord or something.

 

I'm saying that anyone can claim to worship the Supreme Lord, but merely claiming someone or something to be the Supreme Lord does not make it so.

 

 

Did Hiranyakasipu have Prahlada Maharaja initiated into a vaisnava mantra? So was he then not a vaisnava?

How about Prithu Maharaja? Parasurama?

 

Ask Sanatana gosvami. It was his quote.

 

 

You have to learn to judge by the qualities and not think you can tell who is a vaisnava by trying to check out the initiation ceremony pedigrees.

 

Take it up with Sanatana gosvami. This was his definition. If you don't feel that sanatana gosvami's views are important to gaudiya vaishnavism then far be it for me to tell you what to believe. Though I find it strange that on one hand, you are concerned with my supposed lack of qualification to speak about gaudiya vaishnavism, yet you have no problem asserting all kinds of ideas about gaudiya vaishnavism and aren't afraid to add to or even contradict your own acharyas.

 

 

Anyway I have nothing further to say to you that isn't in my previous posts. I find Hindu fanatics to be more interesting in such disagreements then Christian fanatics but ultimately both are the same waste of time.

 

I don't really find you interesting in the least bit. I think that you and other iskcon people just throw around words like "Hindu fanatic" and other innuendo to conveniently avoid the reasonable doubts people have about your illogical theories. I also would point out that while my posting was made in a public forum, I certainly did not seek out your specific opinion until you started to respond with more ambiguous and often irrelevant points. If you were unable to form a coherent sentence in the first place, you can always exercise your right not to participate in the discussion instead of railing at me due to your own inadequacies.

 

regards,

 

raghu

[gHari]

Some have ears; for the others, their mind. And there will they stay.

[Murali_Mohan_das]

"A rose by any other name..."