Is It Better to Live A Noble life Of Integrity Than Live A False Life Of Infamy?

[krsna]

Can I live with myself knowing that I've so much compromised the spiritual PRINCIPLES of genuine spiritual life as to warrant me going to a holy place and leave my body there chanting the holy names???

 

Like the eternal associate of Mahaprabhu who looked lustfully at a woman and decided to go to Prayag to leave his body there???

[Kulapavana]

You are not Lord Caitanya's associate. Do not beat yourself over the head for not being able to do everything right. Be happy with what you have and humbly aspire to be better every day. What is the use of giving up the body? Try to serve Krsna by serving Vaishnavas and by helping in their preaching work.

[Svarupa]

 

 

A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.

 

 

 

 

A real devotee intelligently knows he is the most fallen due so many life's he/she has had in this material world, knowing that one has compromised his/hers spiritual PRINCIPLES on many many, many occasions over many births, committing just about every sinful act imaginable.

 

 

 

 

Even still, such a soul longs for the land of Vrndavana, knowing that to be his/hers real home, where one's perpetual 'svarupa' is eternally established beyond this material dream, that is made up of the envious, LUSTY and the MATERIALLY motivated

 

[sanatan]

For a long time I wouldn't even chant japa because I considered myself such a weakling and phony.

 

But then I realized that attitude was actually the false one, because it was presuming a necessity to be totally "in control".

 

Yeah, I have an eye for the ladies (or hot babes, to be more up to date), but also know this is material conditioning...it's either succumb, or keep plodding.

 

Judging oneself by the example of an associate of Caitanya Mahaprabhu is un-needed self torture.

[realist]

 

Judging oneself by the example of an associate of Caitanya Mahaprabhu is un-needed self torture.

 

 

You are not Lord Caitanya's associate. Try to serve Krsna by serving Vaishnavas and by helping in their preaching work.

 

 

 

We all must stop trying to imitate advanced devotees when it is obvious most ISKCON devotees are so attached to thinking THEY are their material body and it’s dreaded mental platform.

 

 

 

 

 

Many will hate the sinful biological body, but only an uneducated ‘worldly’ fool will hate who we really are trapped within the vessel we occupy.

 

 

 

 

 

In this way, only when this is understood in this sinful material world, (understanding we are NOT these material bodies) will ISKCON start beginning to have a major effect on this planet, and begin to climb out of its present idle slow growth sad state of affairs.

 

 

 

 

Hare Krsna ----

 

[Shakti-Fan]

 

 

A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.

 

 

 

A real devotee intelligently knows he is the most fallen due so many life's he/she has had in this material world, knowing that one has compromised his/hers spiritual PRINCIPLES on many many, many occasions over many births, committing just about every sinful act imaginable.

 

 

 

Even still, such a soul longs for the land of Vrndavana, knowing that to be his/hers real home, where one's perpetual 'svarupa' is eternally established beyond this material dream, that is made up of the envious, LUSTY and the MATERIALLY motivated

 

 

 

 

Srila Prabhupada - "Formerly we were with Krishna in His Lila or sport”".

 

From the perspective of the marginal living entity within the material world, their perpetual 'svarupa body, or real identity in Goloka, always remains there eternally established in the endless 'present', even if they have chosen to enter the material creation of selfish imagination of divided time and space.

 

 

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja:

 

The root of all jivas, the cause of all jivas, is Baladeva Prabhu. In Vraja, the jivas have manifested from the original Baladeva. They have never come to this world. They have always served Radha and Krsna in madhurya-rasa or sakhya-rasa. From Baladeva comes Mula Sankarsana in Dvaraka. Asanka (innumerable) jivas come from Baladeva in His form as Mula Sankarsana, and they serve Dvarkadhisa and Mathuresa Krsna in so many ways. From Mula Sankarsana comes Maha Sankarsana in Vaikuntha. He manifests the mukta-jivas there, and they eternally serve Rama, Nrsmha, Kalki, Vamana, Narayana and all other svansa incarnations. From Maha Sankarsana comes Karanodakasayi Visnu in the tatastha region, and He manifests the tatastha-jivas. Among them, some become free from maya and some become baddha-jivas, conditioned souls. In this way, we see that all kinds of jivas have come from Baladeva.

It is told like this in the scriptures, but actually there is no birth of the jivas. They are all eternal, like Baladeva Prabhu Himself. This is only said to convince ordinary jivas, conditioned souls. There are so many things that sastra has told us, whereas in reality, in Goloka Vrndavana dhama, these things will be seen in another way.

Gaura Premanande

 

So, "it is told like this in the scriptures", ... "to convince ordinary jivas, conditioned souls." And your opposition has shown many quotes by Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada where he also tells like this in the scriptures. But obviously he has also given the way things are seen in Goloka Vrndavana dhama. So he gives both according to which one is applicable according to time, place and circumstance. If we just give one viewpoint then we must twist his words to make them fit everywhere. Politicians twist words. Srila Prabhupada was not a politician. For instance he did not campaign against the different Gaudiya Math "acaryas" in India. He didn't waste his time in politics, but rather immersed himself in serving his guru maharaja and Krsna and came to the West to preach. To just grab one part or aspect of the Krsna Conscious philosophy and try to convince everyone about it is to project our ego into a vain attempt to control others. Srila Prabhupada gave the entire philosophy and as many scriptures as he could in a short time. He always knew that the results were up to Krsna because Krsna is the Supreme Controller. Sometimes he gave the advice, "do as I am doing". So when discussing Krsna Conscious philosophy we should give it all like Srila Prabhupada did, depending on Krsna and knowing that the results are up to Him. Otherwise it becomes about control and that is an illusion that will help bind us to this world of repeated birth and death.

[realist]

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Svarupa

 

 

A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.

 

 

A real devotee intelligently knows he is the most fallen due so many life's he/she has had in this material world, knowing that one has compromised his/hers spiritual PRINCIPLES on many many, many occasions over many births, committing just about every sinful act imaginable.

 

 

Even still, such a soul longs for the land of Vrndavana, knowing that to be his/hers real home, where one's perpetual 'svarupa' is eternally established beyond this material dream, that is made up of the envious, LUSTY and the MATERIALLY motivated

Originally Posted by Svarupa

Srila Prabhupada - "Formerly we were with Krishna in His Lila or sport”".

From the perspective of the marginal living entity within the material world, their perpetual 'svarupa body, or real identity in Goloka, always remains there eternally established in the endless 'present', even if they have chosen to enter the material creation of selfish imagination of divided time and space.

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja: -

The root of all jivas, the cause of all jivas, is Baladeva Prabhu. In Vraja, the jivas have manifested from the original Baladeva. They have never come to this world. They have always served Radha and Krsna in madhurya-rasa or sakhya-rasa. From Baladeva comes Mula Sankarsana in Dvaraka. Asanka (innumerable) jivas come from Baladeva in His form as Mula Sankarsana, and they serve Dvarkadhisa and Mathuresa Krsna in so many ways. From Mula Sankarsana comes Maha Sankarsana in Vaikuntha. He manifests the mukta-jivas there, and they eternally serve Rama, Nrsmha, Kalki, Vamana, Narayana and all other svansa incarnations. From Maha Sankarsana comes Karanodakasayi Visnu in the tatastha region, and He manifests the tatastha-jivas. Among them, some become free from maya and some become baddha-jivas, conditioned souls. In this way, we see that all kinds of jivas have come from Baladeva.

It is told like this in the scriptures, but actually there is no birth of the jivas. They are all eternal, like Baladeva Prabhu Himself. This is only said to convince ordinary jivas, conditioned souls. There are so many things that sastra has told us, whereas in reality, in Goloka Vrndavana dhama, these things will be seen in another way.

Gaura Premanande

Shakti-Fan -

Prabhupada also tells like this in the scriptures, but obviously he has also given the way things are seen in Goloka Vrndavana dhama. So he gives both according to which one is applicable according to time, place and circumstance. If we just give one viewpoint then we must twist his words to make them fit everywhere

 

 

 

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Both viewpoints are right!!

[Sarva gattah]

 

 

We all must stop trying to IMIATATE PRABHUPADA when it is obvious, most are STILL so attached to thinking THEY are their material body and it’s dreaded mental platform, that only makes them see faults in others, when the fact is, they are FULL of faults themselves. The pots calling the kettles black (as cooks know)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Many will hate others sinful biological body, but only the SPIRITUALLY uneducated ‘worldly’ fools will hate the jiva-soul we really are, trapped within the vessel we occupy.

 

 

 

 

Only when this is understood (understanding we are NOT these material bodies) will ISKCON start beginning to have a major effect on this planet, and begin to climb out of its present idle slow growth SAD state of affairs.

Hare Krsna ----

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Some of the children were heard to say, "O' he paints like Kandinsky;" O' he is so bohemian in his writing, the avant garde guru;O' he plays flute like Krsna," as they danced gleefully entranced behind him.

 

No one asked, "Where is he going?", "Where is he leading us to?"

 

To question is to doubt they thought. Doubt is failure to those whose faith is blind.

 

"He lies naked in bed with with his naked female 'therapist', said one.Shush..don't doubt admonished another. Just take another drink of the special Kool Aid and dance on.Isn't ignorance just so blissful!"

 

 

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Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by Svarupa

 

 

A smooth sea never made a skilled mariner.

 

 

A real devotee intelligently knows he is the most fallen due so many life's he/she has had in this material world, knowing that one has compromised his/hers spiritual PRINCIPLES on many many, many occasions over many births, committing just about every sinful act imaginable.

 

 

Even still, such a soul longs for the land of Vrndavana, knowing that to be his/hers real home, where one's perpetual 'svarupa' is eternally established beyond this material dream, that is made up of the envious, LUSTY and the MATERIALLY motivated

 

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