bible schmible

[raghu]

 

Sigh!!

 

The utterances of the pure devotee *are* scripture, more pure than any mis-copied, mis-translated, and mis-interpreted words on paper.

 

This remark is a sterling example of how your (iskcon?) concept of epistemology is more akin to that of Christianity or Islam than it is to Vaishnavism, including Gaudiya Vaishnavism. The Vaishnava concept of shabda-pramana has nothing to do with "mis-copied, mis-translated, and mis-interpreted words on paper," which you ought to know if you really studied Vaishnava philosophy.

 

Acceptance of an individual's testimony on the grounds that he is a "prophet" or "pure devotee" requires additional assumptions about that individual's character and motives which one cannot readily determine objectively. This form of faith-acceptance is not a characteristic of Vaishnava Vedanta.

[suchandra]

 

How many disgruntled ex-iskcond devotees have been left behind, bitter due to being misled?

 

Are you always this obtuse?

This might be true when seen with our material eyes - a saying goes, "Though the mills of God grind slowly, yet they grind exceeding small; Though with patience He stands waiting, with exactness grinds He all." We shouldnt be too speedily judging complex coherences. Modern science fools us into thinking in the short term, that things should happen fast, however, alone upcoming Golden Age of Kali-Yuga will last for 10,000 years. What happened in the past 30 years could be nothing but some normal labor pains and the setting of the course for the future and what finaly will come out not really visible for us right now. Take the recent excitement of some members about the list of all of Prabhupada's fallen sannyasis. Now, see it that Prabhupada did this to give Westerners a first clue that there's something like a sannyasa order. Only that much. Look at all these terribly sad old men waiting for death of our Western affluent society, doesnt it make sense that there could be a sannyasa order?

[mahak]

This whole concept is highly erroneous. We will be drawn, thy will be done, this is a fact.

 

Drawn. In the early daze, there wasnt a whole lot of this "pure devotee" nonsense. Innocence was there, we were five year old Dhruvas, wanting the world, and this dude appears for no apparent reason with a song and dance that we were drawn to. This is the world he offers, and we accept or reject. Repulsion is also being drawn, but the other way. Its all very magnetic, but we dont blame the magnet, we blame the base metal.

 

There is a missing element with all this advertizement of pure devotees going on, as if a five year old dhruva with only his own happiness burning in his heart could even recognize such a person. The magnetic field is artificial, appointed, elected, approved, sponsored.

 

The devotee you (we) choose to hear from need not fit into such a superficial mold. I dont get, not have i ever got, Lord Jesus Christ thru some rednik Schlammer. I only have him if accepted in the same spirit as the teachings have been given, we take the yoke, and we taste what he has tasted. Srilka Prabhupada has no use for babies, he expects only bhaktivedantas coming thru him. We are drawn, or repulsed, without any help at all.

 

haribol, ys, mahaksadasa

[Jugg]

Thank you, Raghu. "keep on searching" and eventually the search must come to an end. Don't search after your seva, but rather allow your seva to find you.