Egg Vegetarian Or Non Vegetarian

[suchandra]

Dear Friends,

 

Check these photos and understand Egg is vegetarian or non vegetarian?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[theist]

Oh! Now that is a crystal clear way of presenting the fact. "Picture is worth a thousand words."

 

Next they will ask, "Well what about unfertilized eggs?"

[sreeram]

Yes. It is cristal clear.

[theist]

But what about the unfertilized egg? People will point out that eggs are just a product if the chickens body just like milk is a product of the cow's body.

 

Also people say if unfertelized eggs are not vegetartian then cow's milk is not either?

 

So how do we answer this?

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

But what about the unfertilized egg? People will point out that eggs are just a product if the chickens body just like milk is a product of the cow's body.

 

Also people say if unfertelized eggs are not vegetartian then cow's milk is not either?

 

So how do we answer this?

 

 

Krishna Himself is extremely fond of milk and milk products - this settles the whole debate. You may also wish to learn that, since time immemorial, Vaishnavas and non-Vaishnava Vedantins alike have had no qualms about go-rasa, as it is also called, and have offered it to their deities as well as drunk it themselves. Eggs, on the other hand, are anything but sattvika, even when not fertilised, and I find the comparison to be just a silly argument by those who are unsympathetic to Vedic ideals. The question should be: would you offer unfertilised eggs to Sri Sri Radha-Krishna as prasada? See, the answer to this question is not as difficult as you may think.

 

Radhe Radhe

[theist]

It may end your participation in the debate but I assure you the debate will go on between others and will only get much larger.

 

Was there mass cow slaughter through a factory farm system in Vedic times? My persoanl preference is to avoid all animal products and the point made on this thread is that milk IS an animal product. Even Prabhupada saays milk is a transformation of cows blood. Well guess what? So is cows flesh a transformation of cows blood through the process of metabolism.

 

You may not object to the drinking of animal blood in the form of milk. I am put off by the idea but I don't care about that. The issue really revolves around cow protection.

 

Krsna drank milk from protected cows. If you drink milk from protected cows then this vegan has no issue with you. If you drink milk from enslaved and ill-treated cows destined for slaughter and whose male calves are destined to be slaughtered for veal while their female calves are saved to be enslaved like themselves then this vegan is going to call you on it.

 

All this fantasy of being "vedic" while ignoring the suffering of the cows is just silly talk to my ears.

 

Since the debate is a nonstarter for you I don't expect to hear anything further from you. If you seriously want to take up the question then bring some facts pertinent the day to day reality of 2008.

[sreeram]

I totally agree with you theist. One should avoide any animal products. Cows milk is to drinking for their babies. Not for human.In one way We are stealing their food which is a bad karma.

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

It may end your participation in the debate but I assure you the debate will go on between others and will only get much larger.

 

Was there mass cow slaughter through a factory farm system in Vedic times? My persoanl preference is to avoid all animal products and the point made on this thread is that milk IS an animal product. Even Prabhupada saays milk is a transformation of cows blood. Well guess what? So is cows flesh a transformation of cows blood through the process of metabolism.

 

You may not object to the drinking of animal blood in the form of milk. I am put off by the idea but I don't care about that. The issue really revolves around cow protection.

 

Krsna drank milk from protected cows. If you drink milk from protected cows then this vegan has no issue with you. If you drink milk from enslaved and ill-treated cows destined for slaughter and whose male calves are destined to be slaughtered for veal while their female calves are saved to be enslaved like themselves then this vegan is going to call you on it.

 

All this fantasy of being "vedic" while ignoring the suffering of the cows is just silly talk to my ears.

 

Since the debate is a nonstarter for you I don't expect to hear anything further from you. If you seriously want to take up the question then bring some facts pertinent the day to day reality of 2008.

 

I abhor the cruelties and greed-driven practices current in the dairy industry just as much as any compassionate person would. Neither did I present an apologia for the nonsense that goes on in your part of the world, if my memory serves me right. Thank Providence, things haven't degraded to such an extent where I live, at least so far. Your opinion on milk matters little, you are right on that one. Abhisheka of the deities is performed on a daily basis, and one of the essential ingredients used for the purpose is, guess what, GO-RASA. Nearly all of the sweets/mithais that are offered to the temple deities also consist of milk and ghee. You can think whatever you want, but dairy products were, are and will remain of paramount importance to Vaishnavas.

 

Prabhupada may have said what you say he did, but he himself drank milk and offered it to Krishna. You can go on and on about it all, however, I doubt whether you shall achieve anything real or substantial that'll be worthy of consideration in the grand scheme of things.

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

By the way, this thread was supposed to be about eggs. You're the one who initiated the digression towards milk and the whole vegan issue. I think it would be wise to stick to the subject matter of the thread, don't you think so?

[theist]

 

By the way, this thread was supposed to be about eggs. You're the one who initiated the digression towards milk and the whole vegan issue. I think it would be wise to stick to the subject matter of the thread, don't you think so?

Actually I was speaking to someone else and brought up a philosophical question. Care to answer it?

 

I see you managed to quote the question but then you ignored it. Take another try at it.

 

 

But what about the unfertilized egg? People will point out that eggs are just a product if the chickens body just like milk is a product of the cow's body.

 

Also people say if unfertelized eggs are not vegetartian then cow's milk is not either?

 

So how do we answer this?

 

So you see the question was primarily on the staus of unfertilized eggs and the comparison to cow's milk was secondary and is a common vegan argument.

 

I await your answer on eggs in the name of thread integrity and you may tackle the milk egg comparison also if you like.

[theist]

 

I abhor the cruelties and greed-driven practices current in the dairy industry just as much as any compassionate person would. Neither did I present an apologia for the nonsense that goes on in your part of the world, if my memory serves me right. Thank Providence, things haven't degraded to such an extent where I live, at least so far.

So as a newcomer you may not be familar with my view on milk dairy products. mynissue is cow protection. If you get dairy from protected cows that is a non-issue with me and apparently you do or at least think you do.

 

If you were in the west where cows are open tortured and slaughtered would you still by their mlk and offer it to Krsna? Would you still use your tortured and murdered mother's by-products as articles in worship of Gopala Govinda?

Please answer these two questions above.

 

 

Prabhupada may have said what you say he did, but he himself drank milk and offered it to Krishna. You can go on and on about it all, however, I doubt whether you shall achieve anything real or substantial that'll be worthy of consideration in the grand scheme of things.

 

I have never been able to grasp the concept of supporting cow and calve slaughter so Krsna the protector of the cows and calves can have a glass of milk. Sorry that logic escapes me. And I know full well that puts me at odds with what Srila Prabhupada did however he did expect a different situation would arise through farm projects that never really has except in some isolated cases.

 

Your consideration is not sought by me or in the least important to me.

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

So you see the question was primarily on the staus of unfertilized eggs and the comparison to cow's milk was secondary and is a common vegan argument.

 

I await your answer on eggs in the name of thread integrity and you may tackle the milk egg comparison also if you like.

 

I laud your concern for tortured bovines, and appreciate your point of view, which stems from lofty feelings for Krishna's favourite quadrupeds, and as a Vaishnava wannabe, I can have no objections to that. However, whilst I can see what would drive some to make the comparison with eggs, I myself would tend to think that this is beside the point. In no sect of Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma, if you will, are eggs utilised in arcana. No follower of the Vedas and Puranas would even think of utilising them in the preparation of prasada, which is not the case for milk. Even the urine and dung that we get from bulls and cows are used for various purposes in India to this day. The drinking of cow urine features in Ayurveda, and as you may know, cow dung has been a source of fuel for people in the rural parts of India forever. In addition, it is also used in house-building, again mainly in India's villages. If you go to Vraja, you'll certainly witness this phenomenon.

 

If you wish to go back to what the scriptures have to say about it, DUGDHA/KSHIRA or milk is considered to be sattvika, whereas stuff such as eggs and other non-veggies are definitely rajasika or tamasika.

 

 

If you were in the west where cows are open tortured and slaughtered would you still by their mlk and offer it to Krsna? Would you still use your tortured and murdered mother's by-products as articles in worship of Gopala Govinda?

 

In all honesty, I would have to be in the West to be in a position to answer this to your satisfaction, but I do see where you're coming from, and yes, since your concern is for the Lord's dear friends, how can I hold that against you?

 

Radhe Radhe

[theist]

 

In all honesty, I would have to be in the West to be in a position to answer this to your satisfaction, but I do see where you're coming from, and yes, since your concern is for the Lord's dear friends, how can I hold that against you?

 

 

Really? Or are you perhaps not wanting to make waves with most of the western based devotees who ignore the plight of the cows in the name of "must have milk"? It is not such a hard question that one needs to have their body located in the west to answer. But I won't push you further.

 

The unfertilized egg comparison to milk is just to show that milk is a product of the animal's flesh as an unfertilized egg is. That much is beyond dispute. Rather it's use is justified or not is a separate question.

 

Being animal flesh in origin one canneasily see how in the strict vs. popular usage of the word a milk drinker like the eater of unfertilized eggs is not a full vegetarian. Only a vegan is a true vegetarian.

 

That in itself means little of course. It may be as is the view of most, that animals and their by-products are meant to be used by humans. Maybe the vegan approach is the one missing the point.

 

This brings up another tough question for the devotee who feels it ok to use commerical milk from tortured cows. though. The Masai in Africa, who are herdsmen, periodically bleed their cattle by cutting a small hole in the cows jugular vein and catchng the blood in a bowl which they drink.

 

Now a valid argument can be made that their method of extracting that blood from the cow periodically while otherwise treating their cows well and in a natural way is far lar less cruel to the cow than the devotee who uses factory farmed milk from a cow. The cow is enslaved to a factory farm production line like a virtual machine and she has her young taken from her at birth, males to be slaughtered as veal while females are destined for a fate like her own while being forced to remain perpetually pregnant and loaded down with drugs to make her artifically produce more milk.

 

So who is being more cruel to the cow the masai or the devotee who uses factory farmed milk? I saw the devotee is most cruel by far.

 

What say you prabhu?

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

As I said earlier, I applaud your concern for the animals, but I still cannot digest the parallel you draw with eggs, and my basis for doing so is more scriptural than scientific. Milk is considered to be a mode-of-goodness foodstuff, or else we wouldn't bathe Krishna in it and prepare his prasada with it. The skin of cattle which have died natural deaths is used to manufacture mrdangas, which we use in kirtanas. The number of Sanskrit shlokas one finds in shastra in praise of cows, cow protection and the use of cow by-products are almost uncountable. That is why the worship of Go-Mata, or Mother Cow is so prevalent in India, because she sustains us by the many useful products she bestows upon society. Likewise, the bull, with the help of which the land is ploughed, is akin to a father.

 

And yes, I can understand your position and attitude. Like I mentioned, I can have no complaint with your stance.

[theist]

 

and my basis for doing so is more scriptural than scientific.

Not every analogy will be found in the ancient scriptures. Not every situation will be covered or addressed. We have to learn to apply our intelligence to the situations that present themselves today in real time.

 

The scriptures don't deal with factory farming. Such a thing was unheard of then. The scriptures as you pointed out do deal with cow protection. So we need to see how to apply cow protection principles to our modern context through intelligence and not expect every situation to be prescripted for us in old texts written in another time and culture.

 

So that may mean sacrificing one principle for the sake of another. In this case milk consumption in favor of cow protection. I say cow protection is higher than milk consumption. Others say milk consumption is higher than cow protection. But one thing is for sure we can't have them both at the same time if we take the milk from unprotected cows which is the situation in 99.999% of the cases in the west.

 

Perhaps in your situation you are placed in a position not to have to make this choice and that is great if you are. However if you ever come to the west the question instantly becomes one of great importance.

[Guest]

egg is the hens menstrual period. Unfertilised or not its not satvik. For example would anyone eat human female period? Its sick isnt it? same thing. eating hen eggs is period of hens.

 

The cows suffering ...the farmers will pay for it in hell, the milk consumer does not. milk is more like a by product as they are primarily reared for the meat.

 

We should protect cows in every way possible. damn those who do not.

[theist]

 

egg is the hens menstrual period. Unfertilised or not its not satvik. For example would anyone eat human female period? Its sick isnt it? same thing. eating hen eggs is period of hens.

 

The cows suffering ...the farmers will pay for it in hell, the milk consumer does not. milk is more like a by product as they are primarily reared for the meat.

 

We should protect cows in every way possible. damn those who do not.

 

Well one of the ways you can protect them is to stop supporting the slaughter industry which includes the dairy industry. Careful who you damn, you may one.

[theist]

 

 

The cows suffering ...the farmers will pay for it in hell, the milk consumer does not. milk is more like a by product as they are primarily reared for the meat.

 

 

 

According to Manu, the great author of civic codes and religious principles, even the killer of an animal is to be considered a murderer because animal food is never meant for the civilized man, whose prime duty is to prepare himself for going back to Godhead. He says that in the act of killing an animal, there is a regular conspiracy by the party of sinners, and all of them are liable to be punished as murderers exactly like a party of conspirators who kill a human being combinedly. He who gives permission, he who kills the animal, he who sells the slaughtered animal, he who cooks the animal, he who administers distribution of the foodstuff, and at last he who eats such cooked animal food are all murderers, and all of them are liable to be punished by the laws of nature.

 

What is not understood is the dairy industry and the meat industry are co-conspirators in the same business of cow slaughter and suffering. Male calves are slaughtered for veal Female calves are prepared to become milk slaves to replace their mothers as soon as her milk production starts to slow down and then she is slaughtered and sold as meat.

 

Do you deny this connection (conspiracy).

 

When you buy commercial milk you are paying the very people who caused the suffering for the cows and you are simulataneously placing an order for them to do it again. Supply and demand. These people work to satisfy your desires.

[theist]

Babes in Crates

One million calves are raised for veal annually in the United States—intensively confined in individual stalls so small they can’t turn around during their entire 16- to 18-week lives before slaughter. Widely known for their inherent cruelty, veal crates are being phased out in Europe—yet remain in use throughout the United States.

[Harekrsnaharsha]

Egg is 100% NONVegtrain as it comes out of the flesh and turns into a full grown chicken where as the milk which comes out of the flesh again dosent trun into any as such and remains milk or curd butter ghee etc etc so Do not eat EGG's at any cost

[Sunds]

Egg is non-veg only. There is no doubt about that. But I don't think egg-eaterians ever claim to be vegetarians.They say they are not meat-eaters.

[theist]

 

Egg is non-veg only. There is no doubt about that. But I don't think egg-eaterians ever claim to be vegetarians.They say they are not meat-eaters.

 

There is this term lacto-ovo-vegetarians which means consumers of eggs and dairy but no fish or other animal flesh. Both dairy and eggs are clearly animal products so strictly speaking by using either one is not really a vegetarian.

[Sridas]

So Theist Prabhu does this mean that Srila Prabhupad wasn't a true vegetarian nor all the other vaisnavas the world over who are partaking of milk products, that perhaps they're missing something by being lacto-vegetarian and that the Lord is not giving them any finer intelligence to discern the difference, due to their sinful activities of indirectly aiding and abetting the slaughter of cows or consumption of animal by-products, whether it is in the west or east?

If you accept the directives or habit of all the vaisnava acharyas in the Gaudiya guru varga up to the present day, or perhaps other vaisnava lines, whilst simultaneously considering that perhaps they're missing the point with milk. Where does that place them or yourself for that matter?

There are acharyas travelling the world all the time having to take these products, but I'm sure the devotees service far outweighs these karmic reactions, not that they would use it to justify their actions.

Srila Guru Maharaj used to say, "we have to make the best of a bad bargain, everything is deficient in these times." so long as what you do makes you a better jiva, and helps one to advance in their Krsna consciousness then by all means do that. Of course one can always argue that no one knows what is good for them these days.

I'd say at a guess that the whole mission of Srila Prabhupad was suckled on this milk, preparing millions of feasts of prasadam that changed the world as we know it, and I've no doubt the Lord accepted those offerings. If anything it flourished more earlier, before veganism was even heard of.

Are you thinking all devotees in the west should embrace veganism for a better adjusted understanding of Krsna consciouness?

 

I'm also curious to know if you would convert from veganism if you could aquire milk derived from lovingly cared-for cows in a proper environment or is this your stand for good.

I do agree that a diet too rich in milk products can become detrimental to ones health, but I've found on the other hand most vegans I know to be rather emaciated, and from my experience quite intolerant even of vegetarians, which immediately turns me off whatever they have to offer.

Of course there are always exceptions to the rule as with all herbivores and carnivores too.

My personal feeling is that it is more important to support those who do literally look after the cows, like in Vrndavan or Navadwip where they are tangibly protected, bathed, fed, pastured, loved and nursed till they die.

This kind of go-seva will qualify such souls to join their Lord in His nitya lila pastimes ultimately feasting in a banquet of ras-malai, lassie, panir subji, ras-gula and a host of other delicacies the Lord loves his loved ones preparing for him and His mates every day.

I've no doubt Krishna will accept a soyaburger over a panir-burger if the magic ingredient of love and devotion is in it, but we also know, thanks to the acharyas, what His favourite preps are. And we are so fortunate that this archtypal design comes out to us from the centre, to help prepare us for that service in our nitya swarup.

They probably won't even have such a word as vegetarian or vegan in that world, just cowherds and milk maids.

All glories to them and all the aspiring vaisnavas.

May we always serve the will of the honorable devotees.

Gaura Hari bol

Mr. das

[indulekhadasi]

Theistji, are there any non violent brands of milk? I seriously need milk for my health. You may not agree with me but no substitute has been working for me. I cannot explain either, what ingredient milk has that has been keeping me healthy. But even if you have recognized that I am a heartless brute (which I am) I know the glories of Go-Mata. And I do not wish to harm her. So if you can give me some brand that is non violent I will be grateful.

[theist]

 

Theistji, are there any non violent brands of milk? I seriously need milk for my health. You may not agree with me but no substitute has been working for me. I cannot explain either, what ingredient milk has that has been keeping me healthy. But even if you have recognized that I am a heartless brute (which I am) I know the glories of Go-Mata. And I do not wish to harm her. So if you can give me some brand that is non violent I will be grateful.

 

No I know you are not a heartless brute nor have I ever thought that of you. It may be important for you not to give up milk until you have identified a suitable replacement. I have no idea what your health situation is. You mentioned having some very specific problems which is not the case with 99.999% of others who claim health reasons for needing commercial milk.

 

If you really need milk then you need to connect with some devotees selling milk from protected cows. That may be difficult I know. Until then don't worry about it is my advice. Destroying your health to the point of not being able to do service would be a tragedy greater than using commercial milk.