Why is it so difficult

[Redsox]

If we are eternally connected to Krishna in a relationship. If it is only a matter of remembering that relationship, why the hell is it so difficult to go back to the spiritual world?

[Inedible]

Is it because remembering Krishna means forgetting yourself, and every attempt to do this requires becoming more aware of yourself as separate from Krishna ... ?

[AncientMariner]

 

Is it because remembering Krishna means forgetting yourself, and every attempt to do this requires becoming more aware of yourself as separate from Krishna ... ?

 

I always thought spiritual realization is about becoming who you really are?

[Beggar]

 

Is it because remembering Krishna means forgetting yourself, and every attempt to do this requires becoming more aware of yourself as separate from Krishna ... ?

 

I find your reply to be Inedible.

[Inedible]

That's why it is so difficult. The harder you work at it, the farther you get from your goal. At the same time, you can't get there by not trying or everyone would do it already.

[Beggar]

 

That's why it is so difficult. The harder you work at it, the farther you get from your goal. At the same time, you can't get there by not trying or everyone would do it already.

 

What you are stating is a relative truth especially this section, "The harder you work at it, the farther you get from your goal". Yet Krsna says in the fourth chapter of the Bhagavad Gita,

http://www.bhagavad-gita.us/articles/496/1/Bhagavad-Gita-411/

 

 

Text 11

 

 

 

ye yatha mam prapadyante

tams tathaiva bhajamy aham

mama vartmanuvartante

manushyah partha sarvasah

 

 

 

Translation

 

As all surrender unto Me, I reward them accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Pritha.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Commentary by Srila Prabhupada

 

Everyone is searching for Krishna in the different aspects of His manifestations. Krishna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is partially realized in His impersonal brahmajyoti effulgence and as the all-pervading Supersoul dwelling within everything, including the particles of atoms. But Krishna is fully realized only by His pure devotees. Consequently, Krishna is the object of everyone’s realization, and thus anyone and everyone is satisfied according to one’s desire to have Him. In the transcendental world also, Krishna reciprocates with His pure devotees in the transcendental attitude, just as the devotee wants Him. One devotee may want Krishna as supreme master, another as his personal friend, another as his son, and still another as his lover. Krishna rewards all the devotees equally, according to their different intensities of love for Him. In the material world, the same reciprocations of feelings are there, and they are equally exchanged by the Lord with the different types of worshipers. The pure devotees both here and in the transcendental abode associate with Him in person and are able to render personal service to the Lord and thus derive transcendental bliss in His loving service. As for those who are impersonalists and who want to commit spiritual suicide by annihilating the individual existence of the living entity, Krishna helps also by absorbing them into His effulgence. Such impersonalists do not agree to accept the eternal, blissful Personality of Godhead; consequently they cannot relish the bliss of transcendental personal service to the Lord, having extinguished their individuality. Some of them, who are not firmly situated even in the impersonal existence, return to this material field to exhibit their dormant desires for activities. They are not admitted into the spiritual planets, but they are again given a chance to act on the material planets. For those who are fruitive workers, the Lord awards the desired results of their prescribed duties, as the yajnesvara; and those who are yogis seeking mystic powers are awarded such powers. In other words, everyone is dependent for success upon His mercy alone, and all kinds of spiritual processes are but different degrees of success on the same path. Unless, therefore, one comes to the highest perfection of Krishna consciousness, all attempts remain imperfect, as is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam (2.3.10):

 

 

akamah sarva-kamo va

moksha-kama udara-dhih

tivrena bhakti-yogena

yajeta purusham param

 

“Whether one is without desire [the condition of the devotees], or is desirous of all fruitive results, or is after liberation, one should with all efforts try to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead for complete perfection, culminating in Krishna consciousness.”

[Shakti-Fan]

 

 

 

 

 

Holland, June 8, 2001

Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

 

If one remembers the principles of bhakti, he will never be tired. Inspiration will always come to him. Bhakti will always pursue those who have guru-nistha (strong faith in guru), because guru-nistha is the backbone of bhakti.

You should know all siddhanta (established truths), be very humble, and honor everyone. If you are not giving proper honor to others, and instead you are thinking, "I know more than anyone," then you may even challenge your gurudeva. You may challenge Krsna, Mahaprabhu, and Rupa Gosvami. When you speak, you will take credit for yourself rather than giving credit to our acaryas. Don't do this.

Gurudeva is very, very humble and always says, "Oh, I have heard this from my Gurudeva, and I am only explaining to you what he has said." This humility should always be there. Give proper respect, even to kanistha-adhikaris. Srimati Radhika even gave great honor to the deer. Dhanyah sma mudha-gatayo 'pi harinya eta (SB 10.21.11). She would say, "I want to be harina, a deer (because they can easily get the darsana of Krsna, whereas I cannot)." Such humility was exhibited by Her.

Always be trnad api sunicena, more humble than a blade of grass. Persons with this quality will develop their Krsna consciousness. On the other hand, if one has false ego and thinks, "I know everything. Why should I honor all these bogus persons?" he will deviate. Try, therefore, to learn Vaisnava etiquette, follow properly, and honor all. Honor even those who are kanistha, and especially give honor to the madhyama, madhyama-uttama, and uttama-adhikari. Give honor to all, according to their development in bhakti:

 

krsneti yasya giri tam manasadriyeta

diksasti cet pranatibhia ca bhajantam isam

susrusraya bhajana-vijnam ananyam anya-

nindadi-sunya-hrdam ipsita-sanga-labdhya

 

["One should mentally honor the devotee who chants the holy name of Lord Krsna, one should offer humble obeisances to the devotee who has undergone spiritual initiation (diksa) and is engaged in worshiping the Deity, and one should associate with and faithfully serve that pure devotee who is advanced in undeviated devotional service and whose heart is completely devoid of the propensity to criticize others." (NOI text 5)]

Follow in this way.

[indulekhadasi]

Vaishnava aparadha is a big stumbling block.

With Vaishnava aparadha you can't chant purely.

When you chant impurely the maxmimum you get is some ajnata sukriti.

[Shakti-Fan]

Holland, June 7, 2001

Tridandisvami Sri Srimad Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja: A nama-aparadhi can have wealth, a very beautiful husband, a beautiful wife, very good and beautiful children, gardens, dogs, and so on. These things have come due to wealth. If you are not very wealthy, your children will generally not become highly learned and qualified. Bodily paraphernalia is collected by that wealth, which is like a death. How, then, can they do anything to help you?

If you are doing nama-aparadha and vaisnava-aparadha, but still you are chanting the name, what will be the result? Especially if you are criticizing Vaisnavas, you will have to go to hell. The holy name cannot bear that anyone criticizes His devotees. Krsna will make another kind of hell for you -- a special kind of hell. These present hells are not enough. A different result comes by chanting nama-abhasa. [This is the stage of chanting where offences have almost stopped and one is freed from the result of sins. Nama-abhasa is a glimpse of the light of the pure holy name. It is almost transcendental.]

The chanter may take birth in a religious family to easily continue his bhakti, and he will cross over death. He will be liberated by his nama-abhasa. [in this connection 'crossing death' and 'liberation' means that at the time of death the agents of Yamaraja will not come to punish him. Rather, he will be promoted to a better opportunity for bhakti.] If he is! not doing any vaisnava-aparadha or nama-aparadha, if nama-abhasa is continuously coming, then it may be that by the effect of high association or by the mercy of gurudeva and Vaisnavas and Krsna, in this life one pure name will come on his tongue. You can realize this if you are always chanting harinama and not criticizing or committing any offences to any Vaisnava.

Then, very soon, by the process given by Rupa Gosvami and especially given by Caitanya Mahaprabhu in Siksastaka, the pure holy name, with all kinds of rasa and all kinds of associates, will come and dance. Maha-rasa-lila will be danced on your tongue. This is sure. At that time there will be no sleepiness or idleness at all. You will be like Srila Haridasa Thakura, or more than that. You will be like Srila Raghunatha dasa Gosvami, Srila Rupa Gosvami, and also Srila Sanatana Gosvami.

 

[Inedible]

Somehow a decent human problem turned into more scripture than I can wade through ... yet again. *sigh*

[AncientMariner]

 

Somehow a decent human problem turned into more scripture than I can wade through ... yet again. *sigh*

 

 

I think what they are basically saying is if you are really humble and respectful to everyone it is fairly easy to make spiritual advancement. That seems to be the crux of the matter.

[Beggar]

 

Somehow a decent human problem turned into more scripture than I can wade through ... yet again. *sigh*

I think that this part is quite simple:

Narayana Maharaja:If one remembers the principles of bhakti, he will never be tired. Inspiration will always come to him. Bhakti will always pursue those who have guru-nistha (strong faith in guru), because guru-nistha is the backbone of bhakti.

You should know all siddhanta (established truths), be very humble, and honor everyone. If you are not giving proper honor to others, and instead you are thinking, "I know more than anyone," then you may even challenge your gurudeva. You may challenge Krsna, Mahaprabhu, and Rupa Gosvami. When you speak, you will take credit for yourself rather than giving credit to our acaryas. Don't do this.

Gurudeva is very, very humble and always says, "Oh, I have heard this from my Gurudeva, and I am only explaining to you what he has said." This humility should always be there.

Tired must mean experiencing the path of Krsna Consciousness as difficult. He is saying that if we remember the principles of bhakti and all It's truths that we heard from Sri guru with deep faith and humility then the path will open wide for us. Of course, easier said than done but really it is quite a simple idea, unless we try to mix in some impersonal conception.

[suchandra]

 

If we are eternally connected to Krishna in a relationship. If it is only a matter of remembering that relationship, why the hell is it so difficult to go back to the spiritual world?

Could be that Padmanabh das has the answer:

 

Krsna suffocating in my heart

 

http://padmanabhdas.wordpress.com/2008/01/30/34/

<small> This entry was posted on January 30, 2008 at 10:44 pm and is filed under Reflections </small>

 

As far as we think that we are entitled (deserve) to something, we will have enviousness. With this comes criticism of devotees. The only time we will criticize is that when we think that we have something better to offer than that devotee but we are not being asked (or given importance). It will arise when we think we are smarter than that devotee. Thinking that we are smarter than someone will sprout ego. There is not much space in heart for ego to reside along with Krsna. The heart is full of enviousness and its by-products. Krsna is completely squeezed-in, that is to keep residing in our heart. But we keep on adding things in heart which try to share space with Krsna. We are providing competition to Krsna. Krsna wants to occupy our heart. We are saying, fine but compete with these. But it is not fair competition. Krsna is all powerful. He can take care of everything sitting in our heart but He chooses not to. He is like the saarthi of Arjun. Will drive the Chariot, guide the way but never fight. Partha Sarthi is sitting in our heart. But when we submit to Him, Krsna I am very din hin, kripana, lobhi, asahay, please help me, He will start working on us. We, atmas, souls, reside in the heart of our body along with our Saarthi Krsna. We should take direction from Him. Guidance from Him. Please make me non-envious OR please make me attracted to You - Krsna. Then my envy will go. I will know that You are the center of Universe, not me. All the dirt sitting in the heart will go away as soon as we turn on the vacuum of Krsna Consciousness. Hari Nam, the vacuum to clean dirt in the heart. But this vacuum cleaner not only cleans the dirt, but also polishes our mirror of heart so that we can see ourselves clearly. One more thing it does, when the dirt is removed, Krsna is clearly visible.

 

Please chant

Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare

Hare Ram Hare Ram Ram Ram Hare Hare

and be happy.

 

<small> This entry was posted on January 30, 2008 at 10:44 pm and is filed under Reflections . You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.</small>

[bhaktajan]

I've always contemplated that we don't show gratitude to other devotees due to conceit.

 

Also,

 

Due to "Trgger finger/loose cannon principle": a devotee with a little 'shakti ala brahma-sabda' potency allows themselves to 'take offence' and thus, 'shoot wildly' [even un-knowingly] at fellow devotees. Thus, we un-knowingly curse eachother with our own reserve of accumulated merit/shakti.

 

So we must mind our sense of indifference --while causually throwing 'astras' at each other.

 

[i know I get snippy with bogie-yogis--but I consider that a bit different, my snippiness is like a sport/exercise to me.]

 

ys,

Bhaktajan

 

PS: Get a life: Become "expert" ('expert' is one of the 26 qualities of a Devotee), do a job/vocation the best that could ever be expected, become rich and self-actualized by 'offering' your skills/benefit as a service for others. [ie: work to please society's needs and therefore rewards will assist your endeavors].

[Shakti-Fan]

 

 

PS: Get a life: Become "expert" ('expert' is one of the 26 qualities of a Devotee), do a job/vocation the best that could ever be expected, become rich and self-actualized by 'offering' your skills/benefit as a service for others. [ie: work to please society's needs and therefore rewards will assist your endeavors].

 

Holland, June 7, 2001

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Veda tells us that if anyone is doing nama-aparadha, the result is that he may become wealthy. Why? So that his bhakti will be covered by wealth. He may drink, he may eat meat, he may take drugs, and he may engage in so many other sins -- as we saw in the case of Nalakuvera and Manigriva. If there is wealth, it is very hard to do bhajana. Ambarisa Maharaja and others like him can do so, but we cannot do so if we are wealthy. Even a sannyasi may fall down by wealth, and this has also been explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam. Wealth takes us very far away from Krsna. Nityartidena vittena durlabhenatma-mrtyuna (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.3.19). What is the meaning?

Sripad Madhava Maharaja: Gurudeva has just explained about wealth. Nityartidena. To earn money is very difficult, and to use it properly is very difficult. ["Wealth is a perpetual source of distress, it is most difficult to acquire, and it is virtual death for the soul. What satisfaction does one actually gain from his wealth? Similarly, how can one gain ultimate or permanent happiness from one's so-called home, children, relatives and domestic animals, which are all maintained by one's hard-earned money?" (SB 11.3.20)]

Srila Narayana Maharaja: In earning, in spending .

Madhava Maharaja: And in protecting it.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: It always gives suffering.

Madhava Maharaja: Those persons cannot do bhajana properly. Gurudeva just gave the example of the sons of Kuvera. Kuvera is the predominating deity of wealth. Janma aisvarya sruta sri. If you come from an aristocratic family, if you have too much opulence, if you are very learned, and if you are very handsome, you cannot do bhajana properly. If you have wealth, then all bad qualities are bound to come to you -- if you have not surrendered yourself to the lotus feet of a bona fide gurudeva and are not in good association. If you have wealth, then even if you are very ugly and you have many bad habits, yet you can keep a learned or handsome person as your servant.

Nityartidena vittena durlabhenatma-mrtyuna. Wealth causes you to kill your own soul. Therefore, if you have money, if you have wealth, you must be in good association in order to use it properly. If you are like Ambarisa Maharaja and Yudhisthira Maharaja, then you can be saved. Otherwise, you will be entangled by that wealth, and you are bound to misuse it and spoil your life.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: A nama-aparadhi can have wealth, a very beautiful husband, a beautiful wife, very good and beautiful children, gardens, dogs, and so on. These things have come due to wealth. If you are not very wealthy, your children will generally not become highly learned and qualified. Bodily paraphernalia is collected by that wealth, which is like a death. How, then, can they do anything to help you?

If you are doing nama-aparadha and vaisnava-aparadha, but still you are chanting the name, what will be the result? Especially if you are criticizing Vaisnavas, you will have to go to hell. The holy name cannot bear that anyone criticizes His devotees. Krsna will make another kind of hell for you -- a special kind of hell. These present hells are not enough. A different result comes by chanting nama-abhasa. [This is the stage of chanting where offences have almost stopped and one is freed from the result of sins. Nama-abhasa is a glimpse of the light of the pure holy name. It is almost transcendental.]

The chanter may take birth in a religious family to easily continue his bhakti, and he will cross over death. He will be liberated by his nama-abhasa. [in this connection 'crossing death' and 'liberation' means that at the time of death the agents of Yamaraja will not come to punish him. Rather, he will be promoted to a better opportunity for bhakti.] If he is! not doing any vaisnava-aparadha or nama-aparadha, if nama-abhasa is continuously coming, then it may be that by the effect of high association or by the mercy of gurudeva and Vaisnavas and Krsna, in this life one pure name will come on his tongue. You can realize this if you are always chanting harinama and not criticizing or committing any offences to any Vaisnava.

[theist]

 

If we are eternally connected to Krishna in a relationship. If it is only a matter of remembering that relationship, why the hell is it so difficult to go back to the spiritual world?

 

It is easy to go back to the spiritual world by remembering Krsna, in fact that IS going back to the spiritual world. It is the remembering itself that is difficult.

 

One of maya's characteristics is to offer distractions of promised enjoyment to the living entities. If we allow ourselves to become distracted then we immediately forget Krsna.

 

Learning how to ignore the tempatations of maya and always remember Krsna is the purpose of yoga practice. A, if not THE, key to this yoga practice is to develop a taste for remembering Krsna.

 

Presently we still hope that one of maya's schemes will work out for us and we can avoid surrendering to Krsna.

 

So you see what makes something so simple as going back to loving God is made difficult by ourselves alone by not wanting to love Krsna with our whole heart mind and being.

 

In the beginning we chant the holy names to purify our desires and once purified we chant to fullfill Krsna's desires.

 

We are beginners so naturally there will difficulties. But working through those difficulties is the only sane thing to do because there is no other direction that leads to happiness.

[bhaktajan]

To Shakti-Fan with the hyphen,

 

It pleases me to receive instruction from Vaisnavas as your self.

 

I'm am quite familiar with poverty. It may behoove you preach the spiritual dangers of this maxim [...nama-aparadha, the result is that he may become wealthy...] to wealthy temple congregate benefactors [what to meantion that wealth is one of krsna's opulences] or maybe privated school tuitions are cheap where you live --but I digress.

 

But . . .

 

 

Originally Posted by Redsox

If we are eternally connected to Krishna in a relationship. If it is only a matter of remembering that relationship, why the hell is it so difficult to go back to the spiritual world?

 

Yukta-vairagya is to be utilized by every level devotee, no?

 

PS: I apollogize for having to only seemingly gloss-over your enlightening post by Srila Narayana Maharaja. I do appreciate the message therein and see the value of it. Even my above posting is a tangential topic to Redsox's inquiries.