Seniority in the Iskcon hierarchy?

[AncientMariner]

I always hear people say you have to respect your senior disciples or you cant make spiritual progress. Does seniority necessarily mean older? I view someone as a senior to me when they exhibit more brahmanical qualities than myself not necessarily just how old they are. What if you hear an older disciple engage in what you deem to be vaisnava aparadha. Are you supposed to keep respecting them just based on the fact they are older? I realize you should give basic respect to everyone but if you hear Vaisnava aparadha I always was understood that it is best to immediately leave that place.

[theist]

 

Seniority in the Iskcon hierarchy?

 

What you are asking AM has less to do with the Iskcon hierarchy and is really more applicable to one's personal life in or out of Iskcon. But that may be where your experience presently lies but you will find it important all your life as well.

 

It is a good social practice to show extra respectful behavior to folks that are senior to us even just in years.

 

Of course if someone older than you is an aparadhi you needn't act defferential and politely listen to their poisionus rants against a Vaisnava. Flee from such people regardless whatever rank they may hold in any religious hierarchy. You are under no spiritual obligation to listen to anyone other than someone you choose to hear Krsna katha from. Yes it is essential to leave that place.

 

It is no different than if you witness some GBC person putting poison in a cup of nectar and then handing it to you to drink. Are you obligated to drink the poison? Of course not.

 

Vaisnava aparadha is a far more deadly poison than cyanide or arsnic which can only kill the mortal frame. It will cut you devotional creeper off at the roots.

[bhaktajan]

Isopanisad 6 Purport . . .

The Supreme Lord’s presence is realized in three stages. The kanithha-adhikari is in the lowest stage of realization. He goes to a place of worship, such as a temple, church or mosque, according to his religious faith, and worships there according to scriptural injunctions.

 

Devotees in this stage consider the Lord to be present at the place of worship and nowhere else. They cannot ascertain who is in what position in devotional service, nor can they tell who has realized the Supreme Lord. Such devotees follow the routine formulas and sometimes quarrel among themselves, considering one type of devotion better than another. These kanithha-adhikaris are actually materialistic devotees who are simply trying to transcend the material boundary to reach the spiritual plane.

Those who have attained the second stage of realization are called madhyama-adhikaris. These devotees observe the distinctions between four categories of being:

(1) the Supreme Lord;

(2) the devotees of the Lord;

(3) the innocent, who have no knowledge of the Lord; and

(4) the atheists, who have no faith in the Lord and hate those in devotional service.

 

The madhyama-adhikari behaves differently toward these four classes of person. He adores the Lord, considering Him the object of love; he makes friends with those who are in devotional service; he tries to awaken the dormant love of God in the hearts of the innocent; and he avoids the atheists, who deride the very name of the Lord.

 

Above the madhyama-adhikari is the uttama-adhikari, who sees everything in relation to the Supreme Lord. Such a devotee does not discriminate between an atheist and a theist but sees everyone as part and parcel of God.

 

He knows that there is no essential difference between a vastly learned brahmana and a dog in the street, because both of them are part and parcel of the Lord, although they are encaged in different bodies on account of the different qualities of their activities in their previous lives.

 

He sees that the brahmana particle of the Supreme Lord has not misused his little independence given him by the Lord and that the dog particle has misused his independence and is therefore being punished by the laws of nature by being encaged in the form of a dog. Not considering the respective actions of the brahmana and the dog, the uttama-adhikari tries to do good to both. Such a learned devotee is not misled by material bodies but is attracted by the spiritual spark within them.

Those who imitate an uttama-adhikari by flaunting a sense of oneness or fellowship but who behave on the bodily platform are actually false philanthropists. The conception of universal brotherhood must be learned from an uttama-adhikari and not from a foolish person who does not properly understand the individual soul or the Supreme Lord’s Supersoul expansion, who dwells everywhere. . . .

[Kulapavana]

Most of the time you will instinctively know who is worthy of respect. It is good to respect every Vaishnava, at least untill they actually show themselves not worthy of respect. Age has little to do with it. 30 years of pomposity is not really that much of a good qualification. I look at the actual service of a person, as well as their attitude towards other devotees among other things.

[AncientMariner]

 

Most of the time you will instinctively know who is worthy of respect. It is good to respect every Vaishnava, at least untill they actually show themselves not worthy of respect. Age has little to do with it. 30 years of pomposity is not really that much of a good qualification. I look at the actual service of a person, as well as their attitude towards other devotees among other things.

 

 

Yes, that has usually been my experience as well. If someone manifests extraordinary qualities that dwarf whatever qualities that I have I have always found it very easy,natural and even pleasurable to give them their due respect.

[Beggar]

http://www.scsmath.com/docs/articles/SermonsVol2-AHolyDay/SermonsVol2-AHolyDay-Pt1.html

The Appearance of Sri Raghunandana Thakur

Srila Sridhar Maharaj,

...This is also the birthday of Raghunandana Thakur. He was born in a place named Srikhanda, near Katwa, in a Kaviraj family, a lineage of Ayurvedic doctors. Raghunandana was the son of Mukunda Kaviraj, who was such a notable doctor that even kings called for him for treatment. Raghunandana was a bachelor his whole life. His figure was extraordinarily beautiful, and he was very fond of dancing. From the beginning he was, of course, a natural devotee.

The family of Mukunda Thakur worshiped their ancestral Deity at home. Once, when Raghunandana was a growing boy, who had perhaps only recently received the sacred thread and admission to worship, his father asked him, "I'm going out and won't return in time. You please worship the Deity and feed Him — offer bhogam for His food." His expression was, "Please try to feed my Deity."

When he was away, Raghunandana's mother cooked many items and brought them to the temple, and asked Raghunandana to offer them to the Deity. Generally the doors are kept closed during worship, so behind the closed doors Raghunandana offered and prayed to the Lord,

"Please take these dishes I am offering You — please eat."

But the Sri-Murtti did not answer or come forward to eat. Raghunandana began to cry.

"My father will rebuke me! He has requested me to feed You, and You are not eating. I'll be punished. You have to take this food!"

The sincere boy began to cry in such a way that Krsna had to eat. Raghunandana was satisfied, and came out from the Deity room.

His mother came to remove the Prasadam.

"What is this? All the plates are empty!"

Raghunandana replied,

"You asked me to feed the Deity. He has taken."

His mother said angrily,

"You, boy, you have eaten it! The Deity doesn't eat. We offer, everything remains, and afterwards we take the Prasadam. You wicked boy, you have turned out to be such a rogue — you have eaten everything."

"No, no, I did not eat, the Deity ate everything."

"This is impossible, you foolish boy! Do you want to make a fool of me? This can never happen!"

He began to cry.

"No, I'm speaking the truth."

"Alright, let your father come, and I shall ask him to punish you."

Mukunda returned, and Raghunandana's mother complained,

"Your boy has grown to be such a rogue! He says the Deity has eaten."

Raghunandana also petitioned his father,

"Yes, the Deity has eaten. He would not take in the beginning, but I began to cry, and then He ate."

"Is this true?"

"Yes, it is true my father, I am not lying."

"Can you show me?"

"I shall try."

So he was given another chance to worship, and from a hidden place his father could see that the Deity had actually taken the food.

 

 

According to Srila Sridhar Maharaj, when Mahaprabhu heard about this pastime, He smiled and remarked, "who is the father and who is the son?" Srila Sridhar Maharaj used this part of Gaura lila to illustrate how a disciple can actually be more advanced than the guru, although the disciple would never think like that, themselves. Sometimes reality transcends formal considerations, but that does not mean to stop following Vaisnava sadacar or etiquette.

 

[krsna]

According to Srila Sridhar Maharaj, when Mahaprabhu heard about this pastime, He smiled and remarked, "who is the father and who is the son?" Srila Sridhar Maharaj used this part of Gaura lila to illustrate how a disciple can actually be more advanced than the guru, although the disciple would never think like that, themselves. Sometimes reality transcends formal considerations, but that does not mean to stop following Vaisnava sadacar or etiquette.