This makes no sense, someone explain this to me please

[Redsox]

Shakti-Fan:

 

"Srila Narayana Maharaja: Veda tells us that if anyone is doing nama-aparadha, the result is that he may become wealthy. Why? So that his bhakti will be covered by wealth. He may drink, he may eat meat, he may take drugs, and he may engage in so many other sins -- as we saw in the case of Nalakuvera and Manigriva. If there is wealth, it is very hard to do bhajana. Ambarisa Maharaja and others like him can do so, but we cannot do so if we are wealthy. Even a sannyasi may fall down by wealth, and this has also been explained in Srimad-Bhagavatam. Wealth takes us very far away from Krsna. Nityartidena vittena durlabhenatma-mrtyuna (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.3.19). What is the meaning?

Sripad Madhava Maharaja: Gurudeva has just explained about wealth. Nityartidena. To earn money is very difficult, and to use it properly is very difficult. ["Wealth is a perpetual source of distress, it is most difficult to acquire, and it is virtual death for the soul. What satisfaction does one actually gain from his wealth? Similarly, how can one gain ultimate or permanent happiness from one's so-called home, children, relatives and domestic animals, which are all maintained by one's hard-earned money?" (SB 11.3.20)]

Srila Narayana Maharaja: In earning, in spending .

Madhava Maharaja: And in protecting it.

Srila Narayana Maharaja: It always gives suffering."

 

 

I don't get this at all. Why would Veda say that when Laxmi is money. Isn't Laxmi the wife of Vishnu? Laxmi is supposed to be wealth, right?

 

Isn't it also true that laxmi resides in "Vishnu's heart" ... here is the source of my knowledge : http://indif.com/nri/names/laxminames.asp

 

One of the names in "108 names of laxmi" is that laxmi is the one who resides in vishnu's heart.

So logically couldn't it be that wherever krishna would be, there would also be laxmi there? Why would Srila Narayana Maharaja say something like this?

[Beggar]

Srila Sridhar Maharaj,

 

Laksmi is for Narayana, enjoyment of beautiful women is for Krsna and pratistha (name, fame, positon) is for Gurudeva

[Redsox]

Beggar, you did not answer my question.

I am talking about Wealth! , not beautiful women.

 

"Srila Narayana Maharaja: Wealth takes us very far away from Krsna. Nityartidena vittena durlabhenatma-mrtyuna "

 

Laxmi graces someone with wealth and that removes one from krishna's grace? This makes no sense.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Shakti-Fan:

So logically couldn't it be that wherever krishna would be, there would also be laxmi there?

 

Yes wherever there is Vraja Krsna, there is Laxmi, actually Maha Laxmi (Laksmi) or Srimati Radharani. Do you want to enjoy Srimati Radharani or do you want to serve Her?

[bhaktajan]

 

Posted by Redsox

[re: Money] Why would Srila Narayana Maharaja say something like this?

 

The context [what topic promted him to speak on this topic] is unknown to me--but the idea is definitely for the dharma/mentality of "Babajis" or for renunciants living in places of pilgramage.

[Redsox]

 

Yes wherever there is Vraja Krsna, there is Laxmi, actually Maha Laxmi (Laksmi) or Srimati Radharani. Do you want to enjoy Srimati Radharani or do you want to serve Her?

 

See this is the problem again. Is she an object? Or is she a Goddess? According to her names , she is Vasuprada: Granter of wealth. Sarvapadravanivarini: Remover of distress. Narayana Samashrita: The Refuge in Narayana.

 

In that case, are you enjoying laxmi if you surrender to Narayana? Or are you letting Her enjoy your devotion to Narayana? I don't know, but I am sure you can tell me. If she grants you wealth, are you enjoying Her, or Is she enjoying you?

 

If she is Vishnu in a Female form, then she is the one who is enjoying our devotion to Her isn't she?

[Beggar]

<table><tbody><tr><td>

</td><td class="m">

</td></tr></tbody></table>Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.88.8

śrī-bhagavān uvāca

yasyāham anugṛhṇāmi

hariṣye tad-dhanaḿ śanaiḥ

tato 'dhanaḿ tyajanty asya

svajanā duḥkha-duḥkhitam

SYNONYMS

śrī-bhagavān uvāca — the Personality of Godhead said; yasya — whom; aham — I; anugṛhṇāmi — favor; hariṣye — I will take away; tat — his; dhanam — wealth; śanaiḥ — gradually; tataḥ — then; adhanam — poor; tyajanti — abandon; asya — his; sva-janāḥ — relatives and friends; duḥkha-duḥkhitam — who suffers one distress after another.

TRANSLATION

The Personality of Godhead said: If I especially favor someone, I gradually deprive him of his wealth. Then the relatives and friends of such a poverty-stricken man abandon him. In this way he suffers one distress after another.

[Kulapavana]

"Srila Narayana Maharaja: Veda tells us that if anyone is doing nama-aparadha, the result is that he may become wealthy."

------------------

 

You see, the service is there, but it is impure. So Krsna sends you some reward, but it is not the best reward. Krsna sends you what you really want (material enjoyment), not what you pretend to want (pure devotion). So He sends you wealth.

[Redsox]

 

<TABLE><TBODY><TR><TD>

 

 

</TD><TD class=m>

 

 

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>Bhaktivedanta VedaBase: Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 10.88.8

śrī-bhagavān uvāca

yasyāham anugṛhṇāmi

hariṣye tad-dhanaḿ śanaiḥ

tato 'dhanaḿ tyajanty asya

svajanā duḥkha-duḥkhitam

SYNONYMS

śrī-bhagavān uvāca — the Personality of Godhead said; yasya — whom; aham — I; anugṛhṇāmi — favor; hariṣye — I will take away; tat — his; dhanam — wealth; śanaiḥ — gradually; tataḥ — then; adhanam — poor; tyajanti — abandon; asya — his; sva-janāḥ — relatives and friends; duḥkha-duḥkhitam — who suffers one distress after another.

TRANSLATION

The Personality of Godhead said: If I especially favor someone, I gradually deprive him of his wealth. Then the relatives and friends of such a poverty-stricken man abandon him. In this way he suffers one distress after another.

 

This also makes no sense to me. Isn't the other name of God "Dispeller of distress"?

 

Also, why would Bhisma say something like this then?

 

From Vishnu Sahasranama: "Whichever devoted man, getting up early in the morning and purifying himself, repeats this hymn devoted to Vaasudeva, with a mind that is concentrated on Him...

That man attains to great fame, leadership among his peers, wealth that is secure and the supreme good unsupassed by anything....

 

 

 

He will be free from all fears and be endowed with great courage and energy and he will be free from diseases. Beauty of form, strength of body and mind, and virtuous character will be natural to him"

 

 

"

Such a person is not caught by anger, binding, jealousy, or any inauspicious event. Such a bhakta becomes a "punyatma" and merges with the Purshottama (i.e. supreme being)"

 

 

So why would krishna give you wealth in one instance and then take you with Him to Vaikunta , and also say "I will deprive you of all wealth, if you are dear to me" . THis is so confusing.

[Redsox]

 

"Srila Narayana Maharaja: Veda tells us that if anyone is doing nama-aparadha, the result is that he may become wealthy."

------------------

 

You see, the service is there, but it is impure. So Krsna sends you some reward, but it is not the best reward. Krsna sends you what you really want (material enjoyment), not what you pretend to want (pure devotion). So He sends you wealth.

 

But I thought what Living Entity really wanted was unity with God....

[Beggar]

Stephen Knapp, Sri Nandanandana Prabhu,

 

...She [srimati Radharani] is also known as Sarva-kanti, which indicates that all beauty and luster rest in Her body, and all the Lakshmis derive their beauty from Her. Sarva-kanti also means that all the desires of Lord Krishna rest in Srimati Radharani. As Lord Krishna enchants the world with His beauty and charm, Sri Radha enchants Him. Therefore She is the Supreme Goddess. Sri Radha is the full power, and Lord Krishna is the possessor of full power. (Cc.Adi-lila, 4.82, 84, 87-96) Thus, the two are non-different, as the sunshine is nondifferent from the sun, or as the energy is non-different from the energetic or source of energy.

...There is much more to be known about Srimati Radharani, but this should suffice for now. Thus, the spiritual exchange of divine love between Radha and Krishna is the display of the internal energy of the Lord, and is very confidential and difficult to understand. No materialist can begin to understand this topic of the relationship between Radharani and Lord Krishna. But the more we awaken our dormant love for God, which is natural state of being for a fully awakened soul, then the more we can comprehend and actually enter into such spiritual loving exchanges.

[Beggar]

 

 

 

<center>The Golden Volcano of Divine Love

 

by Srila Bhakti Raksaka Sridhara Maharaja

 

</center>

 

An Investment in Navadwipa

Therefore, we should invest all our energy in the service of Sri Gaurahga. Then, we shall automatically find ourselves being lifted towards the highest level. Prabhodananda Saraswati Thakura prays:

 

yatha yatha gaura padaravinde

vindeta bhaktim krta punya rasih

tatha tathot sarpati hrdy akasmat

radha padambhoja sudhambhurasih

 

As much as we devote ourselves to the lotus feet of Sri Gauranga, we will automatically achieve the nectarine service of Srimati Radharani in Vrndavana. An investment in Navadwipa Dhama will automatically take one to Vrndavana. How one has been carried there will be unknown to him. But those who have good fortune invest everything in the service of Gauranga. If they do that, they will find that everything has automatically been offered to the divine feet of Srimati Radharani. She will accept them in Her confidential service and give them engagement, saying, "Oh, you have a good recommendation from Navadwipa; I immediately appoint you to this service." Srimati Radharani is introduced in the form of Gauranga with the added element of magnanimity. No selfish sensualism can enter our consideration of the pastimes of Sri Gauranga, for there He appears as a sannyasi and a devotee.

Of course, if we are to analyze Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, we shall find Krsna in the garb of Radharani. According to the impersonal philosophers, when negative and positive combine, they become non-differentiated oneness, but Vaisnava philosophy says that when both positive and negative aspects of Godhead are com-bined, personality is not lost. Rather, in the garb of the negative, the positive is converted and begins searching for Himself in the mood of the highest searcher. According to Vaisnavism, when positive and negative combine, they do not create equilibrium; rather, their dynamic character is always maintained. The combination of Radha and Govinda is Sri Gauranga, and by the grace of Nityananda Prabhu, we may be attracted to Sri Gauranga.

[Redsox]

I am lost in your quotations. Why would wealth take one away from Krishna when wealth is also another aspect of Srimati Radharani? If you could, please explain in your own words , it would help simpletons like me. Any time spent is much appreciated.

[bhaktajan]

 

Originally Posted by Redsox

I am lost in your quotations. Why would wealth take one away from Krishna when wealth is also another aspect of Srimati Radharani? If you could, please explain in your own words , it would help simpletons like me.

 

We are not sophisticated enough to handle both spiritual life and 'wealth beyond our needs'.

 

Too much wealth allows for ideas of 'a wee bit of debauchery'. The answers above by others are all correct and applicable to your questions, it will work its way into your value system over time.

 

Krishna smashes you with poverty which thus prevents you from devoting yourself to whoopie binges. [have you not seen the stories of those who've won the lottery and then spent all the money with in a couple of years--this is a type of drug-addled-addict behavior].

 

But on the other hand, 'God gives to those responsiblities for which they must be good stewards to'.

 

Wealth, good parentage, good eduction, good body and appearence are all acquired in this life by way of pious acts in a our past life. Its a razors edge that can be avoided altogether if you so-inclined.

 

We must carefull of what we wish for--That which is like poison in the present will be nectar in the end after the sacrifice and hard effort is complete. But, that which is like nectar at first will accrue the long arm of the karmic 'what-goes-around-comes-around' principle, and thus be like posion in the end.

 

So yes you are right to wonder about a seeming contradiction--but you must practically have some 'assets in the bank' before worrying about how high your being taxed.

 

ys,

Bhaktajan

 

PS: I am spent.

[AncientMariner]

I like having money to be able to afford a nice peaceful place to live where I can sit around and contemplate the universe. Never did find the ordeal of chasing women as pleasurable at all in fact I always found it to be quite horrible and exhausting.

[Redsox]

Thank you for that Bhaktajan, that makes lot of sense. I guess what is really bad is the desire for wealth rather than wealth itself. So krishna protects us from the psychological dependence on wealth, I guess He doesn't necessarily make us poor as if it was a law to get close to Him, because how can wealth be bad? - wealth is another aspect of His power, what is bad is our desire for something impermanent instead of being free to love krishna. I guess this is why kings like Janaka gained krishna's association and friendship while still remaining extremely rich materially , it was because they weren't attached to that wealth , they were attached to krishna.

 

Thank you very much for your time taken to answer my questions (In the simple way that you did). It takes me a while to dig through the quotations and such, but the answer hits me like a rock sometimes

[AncientMariner]

 

Thank you for that Bhaktajan, that makes lot of sense. I guess what is really bad is the desire for wealth rather than wealth itself. So krishna protects us from the psychological dependence on wealth, I guess He doesn't necessarily make us poor as if it was a law to get close to Him, because how can wealth be bad? - wealth is another aspect of His power, what is bad is our desire for something impermanent instead of being free to love krishna. I guess this is why kings like Janaka gained krishna's association and friendship while still remaining extremely rich materially , it was because they weren't attached to that wealth , they were attached to krishna.

 

Thank you very much for your time taken to answer my questions (In the simple way that you did). It takes me a while to dig through the quotations and such, but the answer hits me like a rock sometimes

 

That sums it up beautifully in my opinion.

[Redsox]

Thanks

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

I am lost in your quotations. Why would wealth take one away from Krishna when wealth is also another aspect of Srimati Radharani? If you could, please explain in your own words , it would help simpletons like me. Any time spent is much appreciated.

 

No object is good or bad in this world. Everything is a manifestation of the Lord's energy. The only good and bad is the intention of the individual to be selfish or selfless. When we use everything in the service of Krishna we remain pure, and when we become selfish and use such things for our own sense gratification we become impure.

 

Thus wealth can create both a good and bad result, depending on how it is used. Unfortunately most people in the world are under the influence of lust, anger and greed. Thus when they acquire wealth the want to utilize it to satisfy those propensities, which takes them further from God.

 

1) When someone is addicted to these bad propensities, but still sincerely trying to become a devotee, Lord Krishna shows him special mercy by taking his wealth away from him.

 

2) When someone is insincere while performing devotional activities, and really only wants wealth (not Krishna), then Lakshmi may fulfill their desires by giving them mundane wealth instead of spiritual advancement.

 

3) When someone is completely pure and free from lust, anger and greed, Krishna may give them oppulence or take away their oppulence. Both situations are equal for a liberated devotee and mean nothing. The world is imaginary, so how you paint the imaginary story really makes no difference for a liberated soul.

[suchandra]

 

Thus wealth can create both a good and bad result, depending on how it is used.

A moral story

 

By Kaviraja Shanti Prakash Das

 

There were three poor men who always desired great riches. One day a special delivery man handed to each poor man an envelope and informed each man, that within the envelope is a great fortune.

 

The first poor man did not think very much of the envelope, thinking it to be junkmail, he tossed it on a pile of similar mails that was supposed to make him a millionaire, or win a special prize, sweepstakes etc.

 

The second poor man opened the envelope and found a golden card. Thinking it to be real gold, he rushed to jewellery store to ascertain the card’s carat or value. The jeweler took one look at the card and began to laugh at the poor man. He remarked that it was just a plastic card, amused at the poor man’s foolishness. The poor man felt cheated and threw the card away.

 

The third poor man opened the envelope and found the same gold card. He inspected it carefully and humbly asked the delivery man to explain the significance of the mail. He also found within the envelope a note informing him that this was the prize for a competition he (and the other poor men) entered some time ago. He listened intently to the delivery man, understanding that this was no ordinary delivery boy, but an educated gentleman. The delivery man explained that this competition was sponsored by a charitable benefactor, who handpicked each poor man’s name. The prize was a credit card which did not require repayment with and no credit limit. However it was only to be used at selected businesses. He thanked the delivery man profusely and bid him farewell. The poor man understanding his fortunate position began to utilize the credit card to become a very wealthy man.

 

Krishna consciousness is the most valuable treasure in all existence. In this analogy, the first poor man displays the situation of someone who has received Krishna (or God) conscious literature, an invitation to a Temple of the Lord, or even someone who has heard the ancient wisdom in bona fide disciplic succession. Although receiving Krishna consciousness, he/she thinks the treasure of devotion to God to be another fanatical religious cult or pointless philosophy- thus he/she never applies the eternal science of bhakti-yoga.

 

The second poor man is like someone who has taken to the process of Krishna consciousness but is unable to grasp its actual value, nor is this person able to utilize the divine process successfully. This person may chant Krishna’s transcendental name daily, read regularly and may even be formally initiated as a devotee. However when faced with a vast array of material tribulations, he/she may doubt the efficacy of the practice. This person may even feel cheated at some point and discard the priceless boon of devotional service to God. The jeweler represents people who ridicule devotees’ devotional activities, but who are also ignorant of the true wealth of devotion. Such people, the so-called intelligentsia maybe very respected by these ‘poor’ devotees- but they cannot help one to understand how to effectively utilize Krishna consciousness to transform one’s life positively and progressively. Such association will actually steal the gift of eternal bliss from the neophyte devotee.

 

The third poor man shows the example of a person who understands the value of Krishna consciousness and knows how to practice it effectively by following the science as it is under the guidance of eminent spiritual scientists. The third poor man humbly asked for some guidance from the delivery man. We naturally need guidance in material life, what to speak of spiritual life which is a completely different dimension- thus we should humbly approach the pure devotee(s). However that does not mean he blindly accepted whatever the delivery man said; he judged him to be a respectable person from what he heard. Our past masters inform us that we should not try to see a saintly devotee, since we have no such vision, rather we should hear from the devotee. If such a devotee is bona fide, then his/her words will make an impression onto our consciousness if we are sincere. The delivery man did not deviate from the note; similarly the spiritual master’s message never deviates from the bona fide scriptures, but presents it as he/she received it from his/her spiritual master. The actual test of the spiritual master and his/her guidance is if the application of the master’s instructions produces realization, or attachment to Krishna. Our Srila Prabhupada has displayed the potency of Krishna consciousness in recent history. He indelibly awakened genuine spirituality in the hearts of many sincere souls by his exact guidance. He was very fond of explaining that one knows a tree by its fruits. So if by the association of a person, one becomes attracted to the Supreme, then one can understand that such association is the best. When understands the fortune of such association, then one can really utilize Krishna consciousness. It is by the mercy of the spiritual master that one can understand bhakti and how to apply it effectively. However this understanding does not produce the fruit or bhakti unless there is application of the principles by the disciple. The prize was delivered on behalf of the charitable benefactor by the delivery man, similarly Krishna is the ultimate benefactor for all living beings and out of causeless compassion for His unfortunate children’s cries for happiness- He sends His dear sons, messengers and servants to give the greatest fortune for the living entity- God consciousness.

 

The bona fide disciple may have material problems but understands that material life is the actual problem and to try to remedy it by material means is foolish. He/she understands that application of spiritual technologies of bhakti yoga is the solution to all problems. This is performed maturely, with the understanding of one’s individual capacity to practice Krishna consciousness and progress gradually. Beyond the cessasation of material suffering; he/she relishes the taste of true spiritual life. The fundamental difference between this person and the former person is that this person possesses the understanding of his/her constitutional relationship to God and His devotees, the material world, and all living entities (or sambandha jnana- which begins theoretically). When one serves in this understanding (the proper process or abidheya), one begins to realize the Truth gradually which is directly perceived within the practioner, until one achieves the goal of life- pure love of God (or prayojana). Even the Supreme Lord, who is the ultimate controller, becomes completely controlled by pristine pure love of His bona fide devotee. There is no wealth equal to or greater than this.

 

source: dandavats.com

[Redsox]

 

No object is good or bad in this world. Everything is a manifestation of the Lord's energy.

3) When someone is completely pure and free from lust, anger and greed, Krishna may give them oppulence or take away their oppulence. Both situations are equal for a liberated devotee and mean nothing.

 

Thank you for that, this makes alot of sense when put in this way.

[cidanandas]

 

Beggar, you did not answer my question.

I am talking about Wealth! , not beautiful women.

 

"Srila Narayana Maharaja: Wealth takes us very far away from Krsna. Nityartidena vittena durlabhenatma-mrtyuna "

 

Laxmi graces someone with wealth and that removes one from krishna's grace? This makes no sense.

 

To have great wealth,when it is used in the service of the Lord,like building temples,feed the poor,help sadhus,is no problem.Thus,Srila Prabhupada requests married devotees to dedicate 50% of their salary for spiritual purposes,live simply,and when the children are grown up,to dedicate fully into spiritual activities,going to places of pilgrimage,spread krsna-consciousness,till time of death.Those who wish can also take sannyasa,ie living with bare necessities,and relying on Krsna for maintainance.

[zjj]

 

I am lost in your quotations. Why would wealth take one away from Krishna when wealth is also another aspect of Srimati Radharani? If you could, please explain in your own words , it would help simpletons like me. Any time spent is much appreciated.

 

The problem, redsox, is that you are equating wealth with money. Wealth (or fortune) is not money. Wealth is Bhakti. That is what Radharani is and what Lakshmi is too.

 

To equate Lakshmi with money is to insult her. Material wealth is one aspect of her strength but if misused, it takes us away from Krishna. To see Lakshmi as money is to be drowning in maya because then we want to control Lakshmi and exploit her. We want to abuse her for our own enjoyment. This was the major mistake that Ravana made. He wanted to abuse and exploit Sita, who is Lakshmi incarnate, when he should have served her as his mother instead. By contrast, Janak (Sita's father) gave her to Rama, who is Vishnu. In other words, he gave his wealth, his bhakti, to Rama and because he did that, he achieved a close relationship of love with Rama.

 

If you have material wealth then it should be used in the service of Krishna, this is the proper use of material Lakshmi and you will please her if you do this. This is the equivalent of giving your daughter in marriage to Vishnu, as Janak did. But if you exploit her for your own enjoyment then she will give you only pain and distress in the form of maya as she did with Ravana.

 

I hope this helps with your question.

 

Jai