Kulapavana Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Dear Vaishnavas, I have been asked to write an open letter regarding the recent treatment of two long time servants of Lord Narasimhadeva in Germany (Simhachalam - formerly: Nava Jiyada Nrsimha Ksetra) by the local ISKCON authorities. These devotees feel like they have no other recourse but to appeal to the conscience of all ISKCON Vaishnavas, and they asked me to write this open letter on their behalf. Narahari mataji was serving in that temple for 27 years, she was recently told by the local authorities (GBC for Germany) to leave Simhacalam and was forbidden to take shelter of any other temples in Germany. She can not even come for a darsan of Lord Nrsmhadeva, Whom she has served for so many years. The reasons for this decision are unclear to Narahari, as well as to other devotees who are helplessly watching this situation to unfold. Narahari mataji recently experienced some personal difficulties related to her failed marriage, and her behavior has not been entirely blameless. Still, after 27 years of dedicated service, one would expect to see some compassion and support from the local temple authorities, not a flat out rejection and removal from the temple. Several attempts to contact GBC representatives and influential devotees were made by various concerned devotees, all to no apparent avail. Not even a basic response to questions raised was received from ISKCON authorities. Narahari mataji is a 56 years old Indian lady, divorced, in foreign land, and without any resources. She gave the best years of her life to serving Lord Narasimha in ISKCON, now she is facing a very uncertain future. The only person who actually helps her is her brother who lives in England. Our hope is that this letter will inspire persons responsible for Narahari mataji's removal from Simhacalam to reconsider their decision. Our movement has lost so many valuable and dedicated devotees by the often callous decisions of ISKCON managers. Why should anyone sacrifice the best years of their life serving in ISKCON if at any moment they can be thrown out of the temple for some trivial reason, or on a whim of a local leader? How often have we seen these things to happen in our temples? Much too often. We ask devotees reading this letter to please pray to Lord Narasimhadeva to protect His dedicated servants. Ultimately He is the real authority and His wrath is terrible. We are all just His servants. In service to Vaishnavas Kula-pavana dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted February 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 I have sent this letter to Dandavats, Cakra, and Sampradaya Sun. I hope it will come out soon. The Indian community in Germany is quite upset by this incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Yes, I'm sure the callousness keeps a lot of people away. In business they call it "What have you done for us lately", but here there is no golden parachute, and you leave with no marketable skills. This nonsense wouldn't happen if Srila Prabhupada were in charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Dear Vaishnavas, I have been asked to write an open letter regarding the recent treatment of two long time servants of Lord Narasimhadeva in Germany (Simhachalam - formerly: Nava Jiyada Nrsimha Ksetra) by the local ISKCON authorities. These devotees feel like they have no other recourse but to appeal to the conscience of all ISKCON Vaishnavas, and they asked me to write this open letter on their behalf. Narahari mataji was serving in that temple for 27 years, she was recently told by the local authorities (GBC for Germany) to leave Simhacalam and was forbidden to take shelter of any other temples in Germany. She can not even come for a darsan of Lord Nrsmhadeva, Whom she has served for so many years. The reasons for this decision are unclear to Narahari, as well as to other devotees who are helplessly watching this situation to unfold. Narahari mataji recently experienced some personal difficulties related to her failed marriage, and her behavior has not been entirely blameless. Still, after 27 years of dedicated service, one would expect to see some compassion and support from the local temple authorities, not a flat out rejection and removal from the temple. Several attempts to contact GBC representatives and influential devotees were made by various concerned devotees, all to no apparent avail. Not even a basic response to questions raised was received from ISKCON authorities. Narahari mataji is a 56 years old Indian lady, divorced, in foreign land, and without any resources. She gave the best years of her life to serving Lord Narasimha in ISKCON, now she is facing a very uncertain future. The only person who actually helps her is her brother who lives in England. Our hope is that this letter will inspire persons responsible for Narahari mataji's removal from Simhacalam to reconsider their decision. Our movement has lost so many valuable and dedicated devotees by the often callous decisions of ISKCON managers. Why should anyone sacrifice the best years of their life serving in ISKCON if at any moment they can be thrown out of the temple for some trivial reason, or on a whim of a local leader? How often have we seen these things to happen in our temples? Much too often. We ask devotees reading this letter to please pray to Lord Narasimhadeva to protect His dedicated servants. Ultimately He is the real authority and His wrath is terrible. We are all just His servants. In service to Vaishnavas Kula-pavana dasa There're many other devotees who were given the exact same treatment like Narahari mataji - devotees who worked fulltime for 15 years and more, who donated their heirship and even quit university to serve ISKCON, like myself. For years I tried to get any justice by publishing in detail what actually happend. Strange to say, the opposite happens, they spread rumors among the newly joined that you're a demon. I know Narahari mataji and other matajis who distributed books for years but at one point were mobbed out. The mobbing works always the same way, taking away your service and instead putting newcomers in charge. It is a purposeful effectuated procedure to drive devotees out. If you'd think to get any justice, you rather get justice from the karmis, but never from the GBC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted February 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 For years I tried to get any justice by publishing in detail what actually happend. Strange to say, the opposite happens, they spread rumors among the newly joined upstarts that you're a demon. I know Narahari mataji and other matajis who distributed books for years but at one point were mobbed out. The mobbing works always the same way, taking away your service and instead putting newcomers in charge. It is a purposeful effectuated procedure to drive devotees out. If you'd think to get any justice, you rather get justice from the karmis, but never from the GBC. Sadly, this is true. Iskcon management system is rotten to the core. If you work for karmis, after 25 years of good service you can get a gold watch. In Iskcon, after 25 years you may get a swift kick in the rear, unless you are part of the ruling clique. They give golden parachutes even to real offenders if they are part of the "inner crowd". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Sadly, this is true. Iskcon management system is rotten to the core. If you work for karmis, after 25 years of good service you can get a gold watch. In Iskcon, after 25 years you may get a swift kick in the rear, unless you are part of the ruling clique. They give golden parachutes even to real offenders if they are part of the "inner crowd". When seeing these devotees swept away helplessly we need another explanation. Try to see things like members of the "Inner crowd" see it. ISKCON is a global org and in order to survive became dependent upon other global players, in fact, the GBC is ordered to abide the rules given by other global players. They swim in a pool of sharks and crocodiles so to speak and in order to get along and not being finished completely have to obey orders. Orders like e.g. to withdraw from Northern Europe and instead getting support to increase in Asia, etc etc. Only this explains what you call, "Iskcon management system is rotten to the core" - irreproducible behaviour of the GBC. If, however, at the end Lord Caitanya Mahaprahu's Sankirtan movement will come out successful, then all these devotees who were sacrificed would be justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted February 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 ISKCON is a global org and in order to survive became dependent upon other global players, in fact, the GBC is ordered to abide the rules given by other global players. Perhaps that is true. However, Srila Prabhupada wanted every temple to be an independent legal entity, with it's own management based on LOCAL devotees. That wish has never been fully implemented. I'm afraid that judging by the way things are going today, Iskcon is destined to become completely irrelevant in the near future, at least in the western world. Other Gaudiya missions will perhaps become more prominent as the time goes by. Once the Indian community turns away from Iskcon they will fold in a matter of months. That is why I am so surprised Narahari Mataji and her sister were booted out of German yatra. Their case can potentially hurt Iskcon's relations with the Indian community in a major way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 I hope this mataji can find some NON-iskcon sanga that can provide her with some compassionate Vaisnava association and in this way discover this situation as Krsna's mercy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhaktajan Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 "I hope I can find some NON-anti-iskcon sanga that can provide me with some cogent Vaisnava explanation of 'what occured to cause this Mataji's outcome' and in this way discover this situation as Krsna's mercy". -- as 're-stated' by Bhaktajan An 'Open Letter' usually openly reveals the facts of a grievance. No facts, data, --just accusations against an institution whose 'working' to preform their dharma. Please be merciful to me and expect me to read the noticable missing links in your reportage. ys, Bhaktajan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted February 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 An 'Open Letter' usually openly reveals the facts of a grievance. No facts, data, --just accusations against an institution whose 'working' to preform their dharma. Please be merciful to me and expect me to read the noticable missing links in your reportage. ys, Bhaktajan Read the letter again, please. The facts in plain English are that two long time servants of Lord Narasimha were booted out of German yatra by the German GBC (Dina-saranam d.d) and Simhacalam TP without clear explanation as to the reasons for that decision. Narahari d.d. caused a few public scenes related to the behavior of her less-than-faithful husband but they are now divorced. Her husband was asked to leave the temple as well but he was not banned from visiting the temple and helping there. Several prominent devotees and gurus were asked to intervene in this matter, or at least to go on record as far as stating the reasons for Narahari's dismissal, but so far there is no response. Nobody is saying that Narahari did nothing wrong. It is an issue of an appropriate and JUST response to a situation. Satsvarupa lied for years about his illicit connections with a woman, causing a major scandal to the movement and a lot of grief to a lot of people, and he is still living large at Iskcon's expense. Danurdhara severely abused kids in the gurukula and he is still a hero in good standing in Iskcon, all his sins easily forgiven. But Narahari mataji gets thrown out on the street and banned from the yatra just because she went through a messy divorce with an unfaithful husband - after serving Lord Narasimha for 27 years with great dedication... Is that JUSTICE? Not in my book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 I hope this mataji can find some NON-iskcon sanga that can provide her with some compassionate Vaisnava association and in this way discover this situation as Krsna's mercy. This happened already years ago, almost all female Prabhupada disciples in Northern Europe are meanwhile at Narayana swamis/Puri Maharaja's camps. Narahari mataji mentioned above was a disciple of HKS. Don't know if she was reinitated meanwhile. Could be however, that this was the cause of her having to leave, she didnt took reinitiation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Her husband was asked to leave the temple as well but he was not banned from visiting the temple and helping there. This is really merciful. Akila prabhu is a staunch Sankirtan devotee who brought for 30 years every weekend when returning from travelling sankirtan all collected laxmi to the Nava Jiyada Nrsimha Ksetra farm. Now they say, well, we ask you to leave, but you can still come for helping? Let's see what Lord Nrsimha deva says to this his servant being treated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 It is so easy to kick someone out and away but so difficult to find forgiveness and compassion in our own hearts and to work with others to bring them to the proper vaisnava stage, which as I understand it is the job of the leaders. "Your right arm is not working properly so best we cut it off and throw it away." That is the mayavadi approach. The bhakta will help retrain the arm to regain it's proper function and strength. These leaders need to be careful because when they unjustly cast someone away they set themselves up for a similar experience on down the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted February 7, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 This is really merciful. Akila prabhu is a staunch Sankirtan devotee who brought for 30 years every weekend when returning from travelling sankirtan all collected laxmi to the Nava Jiyada Nrsimha Ksetra farm. Now they say, well, we ask you to leave, but you can still come for helping? Let's see what Lord Nrsimha deva says to this his servant being treated. I was thinking exactly the same thing. Maybe the removal of Narahari from the temple had something to do with keeping her ex-husband collecting funds for the temple? As far as I know Narahari mataji was actually paying the temple for her room from the Sozialamt money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 I was thinking exactly the same thing. Maybe the removal of Narahari from the temple had something to do with keeping her ex-husband collecting funds for the temple? As far as I know Narahari mataji was actually paying the temple for her room from the Sozialamt money. There were previously more than 100 devotees collecting for maintaining Nava Jiyada Nrsimha Ksetra and everything was there in abundance. There was no one even thinking in dreams to go to the social assistance office. Now they run down the whole yatra that they can't even maintain Sankirtan vans anymore and send the temple residents to the social assistance office. Not one Sankirtan van in a 100 million nation. Narahari mataji originally came from India to one of the richest nations of the world, Germany. And the GBC is so incompetent to manage that they have to send temple devotees to the social assistance office. Looks rather like a purposefully triggered situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murali_Mohan_das Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Sounds like they desperately need you there to straighten things out for them. There were previously more than 100 devotees collecting for maintaining Nava Jiyada Nrsimha Ksetra and everything was there in abundance. There was no one even thinking in dreams to go to the social assitance office. Now they run down the whole yatra that they can't even maintain Sankirtan vans anymore and send the temple residents to the social assistance office. Not one Sankirtan van in a 100 million nation. Narahari mataji originally came from India to one of the richest nations of the world, Germany. And the GBC is so incompetent to manage that they have to send temple devotees to the social assistance office. Looks rather like a purposefully triggered situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 Sounds like they desperately need you there to straighten things out for them. Not really, the GBC insists that 800.000 dollar are still to be paid. If they can't pay the farm will be sold. As you see if they kick out devotees, they want to sell the farm and take the money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarva gattah Posted February 7, 2008 Report Share Posted February 7, 2008 ghari -"Yes, I'm sure the callousness keeps a lot of people away. In business they call it "What have you done for us lately", but here there is no golden parachute, and you leave with no marketable skills. This nonsense wouldn't happen if Srila Prabhupada were in charge". Theist - "It is so easy to kick someone out and away but so difficult to find forgiveness and compassion in our own hearts and to work with others to bring them to the proper vaisnava stage, which as I understand it is the job of the leaders. "Your right arm is not working properly so best we cut it off and throw it away." That is the mayavadi approach. The bhakta will help retrain the arm to regain it's proper function and strength. These leaders need to be careful because when they unjustly cast someone away they set themselves up for a similar experience on down the line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 There seems to be a pattern of removing older devotees from ISKCON, just when they are at about retirement age. Is this merely a plot to save the big leaders from the expense of maintaining these devotees, since money is more required to take care of the big leaders? This is called demoniac society, when the elders are not taken care of properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Narahari d.d. caused a few public scenes related to the behavior of her less-than-faithful husband but they are now divorced. This driving devotees out of ISKCON doesn't take place quickly. What I saw is that devotees are for quite sometime fighting like anything to stay and additionally having cut off all ties to material society knowing very well that it's gonna be a real hard job to manage a start from zero, an adequate Vaishnava living, in the karmis world. So what the GBC is doing is they put pressure on these devotees and keep them in awkward position for years to finally break their determination. Then when having you driven mad and all the newcomers against you, they publish, he/she "caused a few public scenes" and her husband who collected millions for the temple suddenly is, "a less-than-faithful husband". A couple of years ago Akila prabhu was in the position to inherit his father's house, however, because he was a fulltime devotee in ISKCON his father dispossessed him. When receiving the legal portion of his father's estate, he donated everything to Nava Jiyada Nrsimha Ksetra. Next, although a qualified brahmin, he wasn't allowed by the GBC to spread spiritual knowledge, he had to sell paintings to make money for the farm for 20 years. However, he did it so expertly that he set up a callcenter with agents who phoned all day to make art appointments and in this way made millions for Nava Jiyada Nrsimha Ksetra. What the GBC did with all this money and where it went remains a question mark. Fact is, it didn't arrive at the farm, instead they even had to sell their cows because the GBC considered cows at Nava Jiyada Nrsimha Ksetra as "too expensive". When Akila started trying to get to the bottom of what is happening with all the collected laxmi, the GBC makes publication like, he turned into a "less-than-faithful husband". Akila's first GBC, Suhotra Swami started the whole exploiting of the yatra and his present successors are well advised not to commit the same fatal mistakes as the Maharaja. Every temple treasurer has to abide by a system that not even 100 dollar can be overdrawn. Now the GBC said, the yatra is in debt by 1 million dollar. When being asked how this level of debt could happen - no answer, they keep silent. In sum it should be clear they want to sell all three properties, also the big Swiss temple in Zurich is already mortgaged, the beautiful farm in Ticino sold already, and tell the remaining devotees, bhakti-vriksa, open a temple in your welfare housing, but make sure to immediately remit any surplus laxmi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yofu Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 "Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear." I believe Iskcon has become one of these "varieties of religion" so I abandoned it years ago. Maybe Mataji should do the same. Iskcon has a bad habit of banning people. Maybe I should ban Iskcon:ponder:....Wait I already have banned it from my life. Like I've said before, bhakti is independent of organisations. The sooner devotees realise this the better it will be for them. Maybe we should draw up a list of people banned by Iskcon, and the reasons they were/are banned. I think the first group to be banned were Srila BR Sridhara Maharaja followers in 1977...Why? Politics!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted February 8, 2008 Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 "Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear." I believe Iskcon has become one of these "varieties of religion" so I abandoned it years ago. Maybe Mataji should do the same. Iskcon has a bad habit of banning people. Maybe I should ban Iskcon:ponder:....Wait I already have banned it from my life. Like I've said before, bhakti is independent of organisations. The sooner devotees realise this the better it will be for them. Maybe we should draw up a list of people banned by Iskcon, and the reasons they were/are banned. I think the first group to be banned were Srila BR Sridhara Maharaja followers in 1977...Why? Politics!!! Well spoken Yofu prabhu! Prabhupāda: That is very dangerous. What Caitanya’s movement has got with politics? Nothing. They drag Caitanya’s movement, that. Many rascals do that. It has nothing to do with politics. It is simply spiritual. Rather, even the Mohammedans, they were very much respectful to Caitanya Mahāprabhu. They never took it as, His, the political movement. Now it has become a fashion to take everything from political point of view. Just like in India, they are suspecting you as CIA. “CIA has come to become Vaisnava.” That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu says. If anyone remembers Krishna by seeing somebody, that somebody is a Vaiṣṇava. He gives impetus to remember Krishna. Therefore he is Vaisnava. You stick to your principle, Vaisnava. Then māyā will not touch. Morning Walk Conversation with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda April 19, 1975, Vṛndāvana Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted February 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 It may not be clear from my letter that recently Narahari mataji's sister, Nandimukhi mataji(18 years service for Nrsmhadeva), was also thrown out of the temple and banned from visiting other temples in Germany. Their brother recently wrote: " (...) I'm also very disturbed and very upset the way my sisters are being treated by the Managers of the farm. If this is not resolved as soon as possible in a proper manner and my sisters not allowed to resume their services to Lord Narasinhma, then I'll be left with no choice but to let the two most powerful International Gujarati newspapers - The Gujarat Samachar and the Garvi Gujarat and expose the demons and dictators who bring a very bad name to ISCKON. This will definetly rock the core foundation of ISCKON and bring about unrest and disappiontment to millions of Hindus throughout the world. And of course undermine the good work done by founder member of ISCKON HIs Holiness Sri Sri Srila Prabhupad. I hope and pray to Lord Shree Krishna that he gives the wisdom and some sense to those who are bent on ruining the good name of ISCKON. You may include some or all of my contents of this e-mail in your letter. I'm monitoring this very carefully and will take the necessary action, but will conslult you of course before taking any action. Thank you. In Krishna's Service. Councillor Rashmikant Joshi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kulapavana Posted February 8, 2008 Author Report Share Posted February 8, 2008 Sampradaya Sun posted my letter here: http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-08/editorials2500.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suchandra Posted February 11, 2008 Report Share Posted February 11, 2008 Sampradaya Sun posted my letter here: http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-08/editorials2500.htm Letter below contains informations only two persons can know, Dina Sharana dd, the GBC for Sri Simhachalam or her supervisor, HG Ravindra svarupa das. Dina Sharana dd left ISKCON short after harinam initiation by Prabhupada 1974 with her husband our ex-temple president Chakravarti das and was never seen again till around 2002. Chakravarti das was besides Hansadutta the only responsible person to turn the whole yatra into a main target for yearlong police persecution, millions of confiscated laxmi, thousands of damaging newspaper reports being published about "illegally collecting Hare Krishna monks but residing in a château", and so many devotees who thereupon left for good. In sum, one who sits in a glasshouse, should not throw stones. Besides, when, like being said below, devotees like Smt. Narahari Dasi Mataji and Smt. Nandimukhi Matji are accused of an uncommon emotional release, it should be clear that this is the result of being treated with unjustice for years. Btw, before Dina Sharana dd was put in charge for Sri Simhacalam, Prithu was responsible and he was kicked out because he was about to sell that farm. He told me personally that he was outraged because they didnt want to turn him over the mortgage certificate. Before Prithu, Suhotra das was in charge, before Suhotra das, Harikes was GBC etc etc. Why now go against the rank&file devotees? Another View on the Situation in Germany BY: VAISHNAVA DASA Feb 10, GERMANY (SUN) — It is very clear to me that from the perspective of the articles on the plight of devotees in Germany that they have been written till now for Smt. Narahari Dasi Mataji and Smt. Nandimukhi Matji. The picture appears that the "local authorities" have used their Power to throw them out of the temple, leaving them with literally nothing. As a regular visitor to the Temple, I can say that neither of the accusations are fully correct. As for the fact that they have been asked to leave the Temple, I can say that the local Temple authorities have tried their best to come to an agreement and peace with Narahari Mataji and Nandimukhi Mataji about their service attitude and behaviour towards the authorities and the devotees living on Sri Simhachalam. Smt. Narahari Mataji and her sister live right now in the nearby Village Jandelsbrunn in a newly acquired house and property which seem to have been acquired a few months before the ISKCON Germany authorities have asked them to leave the temple. They where already moving out of the Temple long before the GBC had given their decision about the Causa. Also there have been several meetings before, which started around two years ago on the topic of Narahari Mataji's and Nandimukhi Mataji's service attitude and their repeated reluctance to accept any authority above them, which, as we know, not possible to work in any society like a temple or a company. Also in their attempts to discredit the local authorities by -- sorry I have no other word for it - creating intrigue among the devotees, they have written letters to their Spiritual Master to remove them, which happened around a year ago. Several times they have been given very fair chances to introspect their service and improve their relationship with the community and their attitude towards their authorities, which they always said they will do, but after some time the same pattern of quarrel and hatred broke through. And as a result, quarrels and not very nice "arguments" occurred on the temple ground which caused much disturbance in the temple and also in the local community. As a closing word, I personally reject the statement in the letter by Kula-pavana Prabhu: "We ask devotees reading this letter to please pray to Lord Narasimhadeva to protect His dedicated servants. Ultimately He is the real authority and His wrath is terrible." Of course they served the Lord for many years and we are very grateful to them, but there are always two faces of a coin, if I'm not mistaken. Daso´ham Vaishnava Dasa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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