Long time servants of Lord Narasimha in Simhacalam (Germany) mistreated

[Kulapavana]

Dear Vaishnava Dasa,

Dandavat pranams. Thank you for taking time to shed more light on the situation in Simhacalam here: http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-08/editorials2520.htm

Of course there are two sides to each story, and sometimes even three, four, or more, depending on the perspective of the observer or participant. It was never my intention to disrespect any devotee who faithfully serves Lord Narasimha in Germany, or anyone who serves His dedicated servants. I am fearful of the Lord's wrath as well.

We are all servants of the servants of the Lord. That mentality must be a primary mentality of any manager in ISKCON. If the temple devotees are not happy in their engagements, the managers are not doing their job. Plain and simple. Yes, some devotees can be abrasive in their dealings with others and may require very expert attention from the managers. That is why the post of a Temple President should be reserved only for the devotees who are expert in serving other devotees. The side of the story I chose to represent is the side of the two very unhappy devotees. Narahari Mataji and Nandimukhi Mataji are not happy, because the privilege of serving their beloved Lord was taken away from them. Even their ability to have a darshana of their Lord was taken away from them. What high crimes must one commit to deserve such a treatment? In your letter you allude to repeated anti-social behavior, contempt for authorities, and trying to adjust their situation by appealing to a prominent Vaishnava by these two devotees. Prabhu, with all due respect, if you wanted to ban from ISKCON all devotees who are guilty of such offenses, there would be hardly anyone left in our temples.

Serving the Lord for 27 or 18 years in one temple is an uncommon quality among our devotees. It proves true dedication, resolve, and determination to perform devotional service by these devotees. Please find a way in your heart to help Narahari and Nandimukhi matajis return to their beloved service. That is all I ask you, or anybody else, to do.

With deep respect,

your servant

Kula-pavana dasa

[Kulapavana]

 

In sum, one who sits in a glasshouse, should not throw stones. Besides, when, like being said below, devotees like Smt. Narahari Dasi Mataji and Smt. Nandimukhi Matji are accused of an uncommon emotional release, it should be clear that this is the result of being treated with unjustice for years.

Btw, before Dina Sharana dd was put in charge for Sri Simhacalam, Prithu was responsible and he was kicked out because he was about to sell that farm. He told me personally that he was outraged because they didnt want to turn him over the mortgage certificate.

Before Prithu, Suhotra das was in charge, before Suhotra das, Harikes was GBC etc etc.

Why now go against the rank&file devotees?

 

 

Thank you for your comments, prabhu. They are helping us all understand this unfortunate situation much better.

[suchandra]

 

 

 

As a matter of solidarity, her formal husband (divorce is being filed)...........................

 

 

When a couple without children divorces at the age of 56, why the GBC makes such a big deal out of it - isn’t there something what is called varnaprastha?

 

What is widely known, it is the GBC who causes marriages of devotees to break.

 

 

[Kulapavana]

One good thing has already happened. The TP of Simhacalam allowed Narahari Mataji to visit the temple. There are some restrictions on those visits, but it is a good start.

 

Public pressure works.

[suchandra]

 

One good thing has already happened. The TP of Simhacalam allowed Narahari Mataji to visit the temple. There are some restrictions on those visits, but it is a good start.

 

Public pressure works.

Thanks Kula, go on with the good work!

 

Presumptuousness or what is it,

M. Dina SharanaDD ISKCON EURO GBC Germany- Austria

Too incompetent and lazy to open a small temple in Austria since 10 years, Prithu's flash-in-the-pan-intermezzo cannot be counted, but signing with, ISKCON EURO GBC Germany- Austria.

Anyway, may be good for the rank&file devotees, if they would open an ISKCON temple in Austria, they would be immediately caught up in a terrible debt trap by GBC resolution and paying debts for the rest of live.

M. Dina SharanaDD ISKCON EURO GBC Germany- Austria, see letter above: "He still has 150,- EURO of Lord Nrsimhadeva’s money in his possession."

When a devotee leaves due incompetent management she has to write in high dudgeon at the Sampradaya Sun that they need urgently this 150.-EURO back.

However, when being asked how a debt of 1.5 million dollar in her yatra could amass, she keeps silent, no comment.

[Kulapavana]

 

However, when being asked how a debt of 1.5 million dollar in her yatra could amass, she keeps silent, no comment.

 

Of course it is never THEIR fault. Such sudra mentality is unfit for a true manager.

 

I have a very detailed response to her letter from a local devotee (Sunil Prabhu) but I need authorization to go public with that.

[Kulapavana]

The following letter from Sunil Prabhu addresses the issues in detail:

 

 

Dear Devotees,

as many of you might be knowing that at Simhachalam in Germany recently two Indian

matajis Narahari Mataji and Nandimukhi Mataji who served their Lordships Shri Shri Prahlad

Narsimha more than approx. 27 years and 18 years had to leave the temple on the order of

German GBC Dinasharan Mataji and the temple presidents Vedantakrt das and his wife

Arjunya Gopi dd.

So there are many points to be considered before we blame anyone who is right or wrong. So

regarding this I had a phone conversation with Dinasharan Mataji. Following points are also

to be noticed

1) First of all Iskcon is a German incorporated Society and according to the articles of

incorporation the board of management has to be elected every year. So for the term

2007 there were no elections held – the board of management was just done internally

with GBC. In this case it is obvious that the present temple authorities are not

accordingly elected as per rules of a society.

2) The members were not invited for yearly meeting in 2007 to discuss about profit and

loss statement and future plans.

3) If no members were present in the meetings how can one say whether someone is

ready to do service in the board of directors. As it may be said that one should be

qualified to take the position in board of directors – but which qualification is

required. The qualification to deal with devotees, to increase their attachment to the

Lord so that the service which they will carry out will be done with tinge of love.

According to Dinasharan Mataji the present temple president Vedantakrt das and his

wife Arjunya Gopi dd. are not qualified and would rather like to have qualified

devotees.

Regarding Narahari Mataji following is to be considered :

1) Physical Violence : Regarding this Narahari Mataji has never been physically violent

to other devotees. The violence between husband and wife is a private matter which

should not have been discussed in open here. If Narahari Mataji would have been

violent how could have she lived with devotees all these years and that also sometimes

with more than 80 devotees. Please note that the present TP authorities Vedantakrt das

and his wife Arjunya Gopi dd had been formerly TP authorities of Iskcon Munich.

During that period the TP authorities had a physical violence with one another

Devotee Mataji. Please also note that they also gave up their positions as TP

authorities inbetween the term period. They didn t even wait till the yearly elections

would be held.

2) Working together with TP authorities : Narahari Mataji has already worked with

TP authorities since more than 27 years since she is living in the temple for 27 years.

There were many different TP authorities and they didn t have any complaints about

her.

3) Visiting Temple Programm : Narahari Mataji was incharge of the kitchen and was

serving their lordships Prahlad Narsimha by cooking nice delicious preparations which

were being offered since the beginning of the temple. So in the morning she was busy

in the kitchen preparing for the offering – so how can she visit the temple programme? 4) Visibly chant 16 rounds : Narahari Mataji chants 16 rounds ( she has confirmed me

that she chants regularly 16 rounds ). So if is one is doing such a responsible service

should she have than roamed around the temple having chanting beads in her hand.

Everyone of us know that best effect of chanting is achieved if you sit and chant and

the best is 16 rounds together. Roaming and chanting together maybe good for extra

rounds or when the devotee likes to move little bit – like after prasadam but chanting

while moving around is not recommended.

5) 6 hours service – One has to look back and see when there were more than 80

devotees living in the temple how much time Narahari Mataji spent in the kitchen

doing service. So now due to age if she has to do only 4 hrs – that is really nice. If

every devotee does 6hrs service then it must be very troublesome for TP Vedantakrt

das to do 6hrs service because he is also having a Karmi Job. How does he manage to

do 6hrs service?

Narhari Mataji is and was always inspired to do service to Shri Prahlad Narsimha without

politics and it is her attachment towards Prahlad Narsimha that she stayed there for 27

years. If she was to blame alone why were the TP authorities also not blamed – the

experience of their being TP at Iskcon Munich and being violent or provocative are

examples to be considered. Another question is how can one in a society of devotees just

say a 56 year old mataji to leave and search for her own while quite knowing that the

husband has left her. This is not vedic culture – do we just call other women mataji as

formality – Shrila Prabhupad wanted that we look upon other women as mataji ( mother ) –

so Iskcon abiding by Shrila Prabhupadas instructions and Shrila Prabhupada according to the

Vedas how can such decision be taken. Were the TP authorities not in knowledge about the vedic

culture and if TP authorities were ignorant why did GBC allow this. Isnt it a shame if we blame

others or karmis about their dealing with others. But luckily Narahari Matajis brother following

vedic culture has helped her. Some Mataji has dedicated her whole life for their lordships. Please

think over this – she is not expecting anything, neither has she claimed anything from

Iskcon – the only thing what she wants is to have darshan of Shri Prahlad Narsimha

whenever she wants. Upon further request from me Dinasharan Mataji consulted with the

TP authorities and said that she can have darshan only once a month for one hour when I

visit the temple. I myself visit the temple often sometimes once , twice or even four times

in a month and I don t stay there just for one hour because whenever I visit I spend the

whole day and more than one hour for singing Bhajans for Shri Shri Prahlad Narsimha.

Regarding freely visiting the temple will be decided later in the meeting. Where is it

written in the shastras that we forbid such devotee from having darshan and why are TP

authorities who don t deal with other devotees in a friendly way or criticise devotees who

belong to some country and these countries are known for their preconceptions.

Nandimukhi Mataji was running a shop in the temple. She was earning from this shop

and maintaing her daughter and she was also paying rent for the shop and simultaneously

also doing service in the temple. So now the TP authorities without consulting society

members have told her to give up the shop – which she has done being forced by them.

What will happen with the shop – who is going to manage – all these points are not being

discussed with members?

TP authorities should understand that they are acting on behalf of Shrila Prabhupad. As

desired by Shrila Prabhupad TP authorities should be trained by GBC how to deal with

devotees – not everyone can deal with different devotees nicely.

Bhakta Daniel : Bhakta Daniel had personally told Akhila Prabhu that he has to go from

the temple for short period as TP authorities were not approachable at that time. He also

tried to contact the TP authority but Arjunya Gopi dd was not interested to get back the €

150,00 rather she prohibited him from coming to the temple. He is and was ready to pay.

I had also heard that such arguments like closing the temple of Narsimhadev were brought

forward – but my question is on you to all devotes and to GBC is whether you can think

of closing the Iskcon Mayapur temple where Lord Prahlad Narsimha also reside. How can

such offensive arguments be brought forward not the least to be thought? Shastras don’t

suggest such things when there are unqualified TP authorities or devotees that you close

the temple. It is our prime duty to solve out the problem together and any devotee or TP

authorities ignoring this service towards the Lord acting cooperatively – it is a big offense.

Vamsivata Das : Recently Vamsivata das who was pujari at Simhachalam faced trouble

from TP authorities and they even called police. So the police went back telling that when

the pujari wasn t violent and therefore there was no reason to take him with them. Few

days later he was kicked out of the temple. We never had Police at Simhachalam – but

now due to lack of dealing from TP authorities with other devotees now we will get a bad

image.

My humble request to all devotees please kindly come forward to please Shri Shri Prahlad

Narsimha by visiting and if desired give little service. Maybe one of you might have the

right qualification for TP as desired by GBC Dinasharan Mataji or the present TP

authorities by having associaton of more devotees change in their dealings.

Dinasharan Mataji has personally requested me to see that devotees don’t get frustrated

after this incident but some points have to be cleared also from other side – so that

devotees think properly after reading all true facts and decide how to come forward to

help the temple. Otherwise just criticising will go on and there will be always one

“Narahari Mataji “who will pushed up in one corner with all blame leaving aside the faults

of other devotees – in this case not yet legally elected TP authorities. If we devotees really

want to improve and please Shrila Prabhupad then we have to judge through shastras and

therefore we have to come forward to help other devotees ( long termed devotees ) who

are facing troubles from other devotees ( not yet completely qualified TP authorities)

Note :

I wish that Iskcon GBC, Swamis and Gurus should come to Simhachalam and spend

some time with their disciples and inspire them. We can also have their good advises

for Simhachalam.

 

Sunil

[suchandra]

Looks like things are getting more attention.

 

Let's Kick out the 'Kick-out Culture'

BY: URVASHI PATEL

 

Feb 14, UK (SUN) —

I have been reading about the plight of Narahari and Nandimukhi Matajis at Simhacalam in Germany and I am aware of the various postings on this issue. Thank you Kula-Pavana Prabhu for bringing this to our attention (

here

and

here

). I am not alone asking myself the question, what heinous crime those two Matajis have performed to deserve such a treatment. Did they murder a Brahmin? Perhaps they killed a cow?

 

We hear from Vaishnava dasa phrases such as their 'service attitude and behaviour towards the authorities' and their 'reluctance to accept any authority above them'. After 27 and 18 years of service to Lord Narasimhadeva, these two devotees get nothing more than 'of course they served the Lord for many years and we are very grateful to them, but … '? This is unbelievable to me or any devotee who cares for the future of ISKCON and especially its devotees.

 

Sorry, we have heard those phrases too many times to justify the behaviour of unqualified leaders within our society, leaders who are only after name, fame, respect, glory and nowadays a good salary paid by the Hindu community, may they be Temple Presidents, Regional Secretaries or even GBCs.

 

When the child abuse occurred in our temples we were told that we were not following authority when we raised unpleasant questions. Therefore we kept quiet.

I wish we had spoken out!

When women were mistreated and sent to the back of the temple room during arati or out of the temple room during japa we were also told not to question authority. So we kept quiet again.

I wish we had spoken out!

When the Zonal Acharya system was introduced we voiced our concerns whether that was really what Srila Prabhupada wanted and we were kicked out of the temple altogether. This saga goes on and on and countless devotees could write volumes about it. By now we have lost faith in such unqualified authorities and are therefore prepared to rather give the victims the benefit of the doubt.

 

Please, Prabhus at Simhachalam, limit the damage and come to an amicable solution. I bet the temple authorities in charge are many years younger than Narahari Mataji with her 27 years of service history. She is a disciple of Srila Prabhupada and deserves more than that. Why not give her a voice on the management board. That would be a clever move. But no, it is so much easier to kick-out, to ostracise and to ban even though the repercussions have such a devastating effect on our worldwide ISKCON society, especially if the brother of those two matajis, Councillor Rashmikant Joshi, is contacting the two most powerful International Gujarati newspapers - the Gujarat Samachar and the Garvi Gujarat. Please, our GBC representatives, wake up and do something. It is not anymore a German problem. It has gone far beyond that by now and we are all affected by its fallout.

 

I doubt, however, that these two matajis would return and live at Simhachalam after all they have been put through. The least what we can do now is lift the ban so they can visit Simhachalam and other temples in Germany. That is the very least we should do right now.

 

This incident at Simhacalam is not an isolated case. It has unfortunately become a deep routed culture within our society which may take a generation or more to stamp out. It is a systemic failure and a disease based on name, fame and glory of our 'want to be leaders'. The recent article of Kurma Rupa Prabhu, "

Leadership's Response to Criticism: An Analysis

", gives detailed insight into the subject matter. Unfortunately this 'kick-out' and 'silence' culture of any criticism within ISKCON is nourished from the very top of our society, namely the GBC, and has therefore the long term effect of eroding authority altogether. Is that really what we want?

 

A mature and genuinely caring leadership would address the actual problems rather than banning and ostracising devotees if they cause disturbance. Nobody causes disturbance without a reason, especially not devotees who have been in devotional service for 27 years. Why not tackle the actual problem, may it be marital or otherwise, rather than the obvious unpleasant symptoms for which we seem to find no other answers than banning devotees. This appears to be the easy way to solve problems but has unfortunately very grave and long reaching consequences for our society. It accelerates the ongoing exodus of qualified and committed devotees from ISKCON who then look for shelter amongst other Gaudiya institutions, thus contributing to the bloodletting of generations of sincere Vaishnavas. Ratimanjari mataji's recent article, "

ISKCON and the Hare Krishna Movement

", is a good analysis in this regard.

 

When will we ever get a mature and caring leadership by devotees who will not hanker for name, fame, respect and glory, who will command respect and not demand respect, who will fully commit themselves to a long term solution, who are pro-active rather than re-active, who have a long term vision rather than a quick fix, who lead and govern with genuine compassion and love and not with fear and who will dedicate and sacrifice their life for serving the devotees of Srila Prabhupada's ISKCON society? We dearly long for such qualified authority. Such leadership has to come right from the top, namely the GBC. If the GBC sets the proper example it will gradually filter down to other managers as well. In the meantime and until this happens, everyone is duty bound to expose unqualified leadership anywhere and everywhere within ISKCON in order to protect such devotees as Narahari and Nandimukhi Matajis.

 

 

[suchandra]

Below M. Lalita Madhava dasi tries to point out that the kicking out of senior devotees in ISKCON is caused by too young and lusty Temple Presidents. But isn't this the first and foremost responsibility of a trustworthy GBC to not let such madness happen?

 

"Therefore we have created these GBC. So they should be very responsible men. Otherwise, they will be punished. They will be punished to become a śūdra. Although Yamarāja is a GBC, but he made a little mistake. He was punished to become a śūdra. So those who are GBC’s, they should be very, very careful to administer the business of ISKCON. Otherwise they will be punished. As the post is very great, similarly, the punishment is also very great. That is the difficulty. You can see from this example, Vidura. He was immediately punished."

 

Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 1.13.15

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

Geneva, June 4, 1974

http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/740604SB.GEN.htm

 

 

 

A Shocking Pattern

 

by Lalita Madhava dasi

Posted February 14, 2008

The history of ISKCON in this regard is shocking and disgraceful. While I was living on the New Raman Reti Farm in Alachua in the mid-1980's, the temple president, V.V. Prabhu, was a 10 or 15-year brahmacari. Though a nice devotee in all other regards and now married, he was at that time in the throes of a particularly dramatic and erratic attraction/aversion pendulum swing in which he would first become attracted to a woman and then flip out and throw her out of the temple. This happened not once, not twice, but FIVE TIMES IN A ROW!

The first victim was senior devotee Mother A.L. (I'm not using names without permission), who had faithfully and lovingly served the Deities for at least 10 years by that time, who was abruptly thrown off the Farm for no apparent reason. Then, within a period of weeks, came Bhaktin Janice immediately followed by Bhaktin Elise, both highly intelligent women and students from the University of Florida. Needless to say, both of these young women left with a thoroughly dreadful impression of the Hare Krishna Movement and were never seen or heard from again.

 

<!-- the main section of the post goes here -->

Minutes from the European Leaders Meeting

 

 

But, though I watched with absolute horror as these events unfolded, somehow it never occurred to me that I could possibly be next. After all, I had gone on sankirtana to support the Farm and had taken care of the Deities for years and years. But suddenly I was next. Our temple president suddenly and without warning went from saving me prasadam every day when I got home from sankirtana and lighting the woodstove in my asrama and watching my 2-year-old daughter (in my asrama) so that I could dress the Deities in the morning to deciding that I had to immediately move out of the temple - with my baby and with no money and no vehicle! He even gave the GBC an ultimatum, saying, "either she goes or I go." Remarkably, the GBC was somehow unaware of the pattern that had clearly emerged by that point with Mother A.L., Janice, Elise and now me, and with the Farm in such a precarious situation, the GBC bought time in order to find a replacement by giving in to this offensive ultimatum. To his credit, the GBC later sincerely apologized for what he had done and asked my forgiveness, after I had not spoken to him for 5 years as a result of it.

 

ISKCON Alachua, Florida

 

Meanwhile, there was another senior lady Prabhupada disciple, Mother K., living on the Farm. When I left I warned her: "Watch out. You're going to be next." Sure enough, she became the next object of this out-of-control temple president's attraction and then aversion and he then tried to throw her out too! At that point she told him that people were aware of his pattern and that she had been warned by me that she would be next. I don't recall exactly what happened at that point, but I don't remember her ever actually leaving the Farm, so I think somehow the authorities must have finally intervened.

But I'm shocked and disappointed to hear that these kinds of shameful things are still going on more than 20 years later in this day and age. It is a disgraceful and inauspicious legacy we create when devotees give the best years of their lives in service to ISKCON and then are simply thrown out with the trash as soon as they have some problem or at the whim of some unqualified leader. We as a Society must stand up for protecting the women in Germany and for protecting all women.

[Kulapavana]

Reply to Euro GBC Statement

Dear Dina Sharana prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I would like to thank you for providing us with a clear and unambiguous GBC position on Mother Narahari's case. Since Sunil Zaveri prabhu addressed all the issues covered in your letter I will be brief.

We are all very glad that thanks to the public discussion of Mother Narahari's case both sides are now moving closer to a mutually acceptable solution. Thank you very much for understanding our concerns and willingness to address them.

I especially applaud your efforts to recover 150 euros of Lord Nrsimhadeva’s money from a young bhakta who recently married Narahari mataji's niece. Srila Prabhupada was very strict when it comes to the misuse of ISKCON's funds and very frugal in his practical approach to money matters. I sincerely hope that you also make every effort to recover the vast sums of money that were previously misspent, misappropriated, or misused in some other way by the devotees holding positions of power in the previous ISKCON administration. Recovery of these monies would go a long way towards improving the dire financial situation of the German yatra. I would also hope that all the monies collected in the name of ISKCON by the current gurus, sannyasis, and other prominent devotees are properly accounted for. The leaders must lead by example and follow the same rules they expect others to follow.

We deeply appreciate all sincere devotees like your good self who perform the often thankless and under-appreciated task of administration in ISKCON.

Dandavat pranams

your servant

Kula-pavana dasa

[suchandra]

 

Reply to Euro GBC Statement

Dear Dina Sharana prabhu,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada.

I would like to thank you for providing us with a clear and unambiguous GBC position on Mother Narahari's case. Since Sunil Zaveri prabhu addressed all the issues covered in your letter I will be brief.

We are all very glad that thanks to the public discussion of Mother Narahari's case both sides are now moving closer to a mutually acceptable solution. Thank you very much for understanding our concerns and willingness to address them.

I especially applaud your efforts to recover 150 euros of Lord Nrsimhadeva’s money from a young bhakta who recently married Narahari mataji's niece. Srila Prabhupada was very strict when it comes to the misuse of ISKCON's funds and very frugal in his practical approach to money matters. I sincerely hope that you also make every effort to recover the vast sums of money that were previously misspent, misappropriated, or misused in some other way by the devotees holding positions of power in the previous ISKCON administration. Recovery of these monies would go a long way towards improving the dire financial situation of the German yatra. I would also hope that all the monies collected in the name of ISKCON by the current gurus, sannyasis, and other prominent devotees are properly accounted for. The leaders must lead by example and follow the same rules they expect others to follow.

We deeply appreciate all sincere devotees like your good self who perform the often thankless and under-appreciated task of administration in ISKCON.

Dandavat pranams

your servant

Kula-pavana dasa

Very good, this should wake people up.

Just another ex-disciple of Harikes came back from India today, having taken initiation from Srila Puri Maharaja. Although I never expected this devotee to do this.

He says, ISKCON was no more an option for him, he didn't felt that he was welcomed there. Besides, the performance of ISKCON in Austria since so many years can be described with one word only, scandalous.

It is somwhat hard to reconstruct why M. Dina Sharana DD insist to sign her statements with "M.DINA SHARANA DD, ISKCON EURO GBC FOR AUSTRIA, when they don't have any temple in Austria?

[Kulapavana]

 

Very good, this should wake people up.

Just another ex-disciple of Harikes came back from India today, having taken initiation from Srila Puri Maharaja. Although I never expected this devotee to do this.

He says, ISKCON was no more an option for him, he didn't felt that he was welcomed there. Besides, the performance of ISKCON in Austria since so many years can be described with one word only, scandalous.

It is somwhat hard to reconstruct why M. Dina Sharana DD insist to sign her statements with "M.DINA SHARANA DD, ISKCON EURO GBC FOR AUSTRIA, when they don't have any temple in Austria?

 

Thank you for your encouragement, Sucandra-ji. I really mean it.

 

It is sad that so many sincere and dedicated long time devotees are leaving ISKCON feeling unwelcome and disgusted with our organization. It is such a huge loss. Bricks are nothing without the good people to performe service there. I hope that one day there will be Iskcon centers in Austria again, this time fully and solely under the control of local devotees. Perhaps we will have a chance to meet there in person and have a good laugh about all the differences we had between us in the past.

[vaishnav das]

 

Thank you for your encouragement, Sucandra-ji. I really mean it.

 

It is sad that so many sincere and dedicated long time devotees are leaving ISKCON feeling unwelcome and disgusted with our organization. It is such a huge loss. Bricks are nothing without the good people to performe service there. I hope that one day there will be Iskcon centers in Austria again, this time fully and solely under the control of local devotees. Perhaps we will have a chance to meet there in person and have a good laugh about all the differences we had between us in the past.

 

That would be great i long since years for a new temple in austria but the problem is all of u are scattered. i also hope this issue will solve itself in a peaceful and vaishnava-like manner

Y.S. vaishnava das:)

[suchandra]

 

That would be great i long since years for a new temple in austria but the problem is all of u are scattered. i also hope this issue will solve itself in a peaceful and vaishnava-like manner

Y.S. vaishnava das:)

"The problem is all of u are scattered" - this doesn't seem to be the actual problem.

 

 

 

ISKCON GOVERNING BODY COMMISSION SOCIETY

 

 

Reg. No S/74662 under the West Bengal Societies Registration Act, 1961

 

 

P.O. Shree Mayapur Dham, Dist. Nadia, W. Bengal

 

 

MINUTES OF THE ANNUAL GENERAL MEETING

 

 

OF THE ISKCON GBC SOCIETY

 

 

 

404. German Yatra Emergency Action

[Action Order]

 

 

6. That, in view of the German leaders’ willingness to accept into its zone Austria, which comes with a 150,000 Euro debt, the European RGB especially should work to find ways and means to help the German-Austria zone resolve its financial crisis.

source: http://www.vconline.biz/2005/05julaug/GBCRES05.htm

 

 

According GBC resolution above, 150,000 Euro or in other words, 220,110 dollar, is Austria's debt for not having received ISKCON's mercy to have a Gaura-Nitai temple since 10 years? In other words, as soon someone opens an ISKCON temple in Austria he's indebted and has to pay 220,110 dollar?

 

The first thing to do would be to go to court and declare this decision to be illegal. Prithu had about 10 disciples in Austria who collected and sold books all day. How they could have created a debt of 220,110 dollar?

If they run into such kind of huge debt during Harikes' era, then why impose previous mismanagement to those who want to open a new temple?

And this seems to be the reason why no one even considers to open a temple in Austria.

Millions and more millions were collected on Austria's streets for the neighboring countries, since 30 years they send their sankirtan maha-ratis but bring all the laxmi outside.

Next they say, Austria has no temple, no devotees who can protest, let's declare Austria is indebted by 220,110 dollar.

 

"I also hope this issue will solve itself in a peaceful and vaishnava-like manner".

Dear Vaishnava das, if you consider that this is a peaceful and vaishnava-like manner, to burden questionable debt upon a nation which is punished already by the GBC of not allowing to open an adequate ISKCON temple since 10 years, then better stop your dreams of, "i long since years for a new temple in austria."

Btw, the guests of Srila Puri Maharaja's temple in Vienna can't even remember what is an ISKCON temple.

 

 

[suchandra]

Sivananda prabhu shedding light into the ongoing disput. Could be that now more counterstatements by the establishment will follow.

 

Simhacalam - Another Insider View

BY: SHIVANANDA DAS

Feb 20, USA (SUN) — The plight of Narahari Devi Dasi.

Many devotees around the world are presently expressing their outrage at the plight of Narahari devi dasi of the German Nrisimhadeva farm project, Simhachalam. This letter is written to give one person's perspective on the matter.

Narahari d.d., who has faithfully served and lived at Simhachalam for over 25 years, has been forced from her home by the order of the German National Council. Not only that, but after years of dedicated service she has received the further restriction of only being able to visit what was once her home of 25 years to take darshan of the Lord for only one hour, once a month. Many are demanding answers as to why such an extreme act has been perpetrated against this Vaishnavi.

There are a number of topics which I must address in order for me to give a full picture for your understanding of the current situation. However to start I will give my hypothesis as to why this situation came about in the first place. I do this with the utmost reservation and dread. One for fear of Vaishnava aparadha and two, because I dread entering the public forum for such purposes as exposing an injustice which a petty peon such as I should not have to do. However I have my motivations for doing so, which will eventually be explained and are intimately intertwined with the problems which I will now present.

Problem 1: The once vibrant community of Simhachalam has disappeared.

Problem 2: Narahari d.d., longtime servant of Lord Nrisimhadeva, is forced from her home.

Problem 3: Vamsi Vata Prabhu, long time servant and pujari of Lord Nrisimhadeva, is forced out of Simhachalam after giving public voice to his opposition to Narahari mataji’s excommunication.

Hypothesis: The current Temple President and his wife, Vedanta Krit das and Arjunia Gopi devi dasi, are directly and indirectly responsible for these problems because of their lack of qualification for the position of power and responsibility which they hold. Their only qualification is the commonly known fact that "there is no one else to perform this function". Furthermore, as these two devotees are able to act only at the approval and discretion of the National Council and German GBC members, these parties are unfortunately also implicated.

I lived at Simhachalam during the winters and springs of 2004-5 and 2005-6, respectively. At that time in 2004 there were over 27 devotees living and serving at the farm. The current President and his wife, who are now residing on the farm, were performing their duties as Temple Presidents while working and residing in Munich. I had joined ISKCON in Portland, Oregon only one year previously and hand been invited to come to Germany by Prithu Prabhu, who was at that time my Guru. I quickly became enamored with this community of devotees. After 23 years of suffering in the mleccha world, I found the sweetness of the association and life with these devotees to be like a soothing and healing salve on the burn wounds received from a scorching material life. In short, it was ecstatic. There were, of course, the common complications but this is at least how I feel about my time at Simhachalam in retrospect.

Now the year is 2008. Only two devotees of the 27 with whom I served are still serving at Simhachalam. There are now only 5 devotees living at Simhachalam, including the Temple President and his wife, who have since moved onto the farm.

Now it is my task to give my case as to why Vedanta Krit and his wife are responsible for this situation. I will refrain from using names where possible.

The general mood at Simhachalam was a quite pleasant and happy one. The devotees for the most part simply performed their duties and acted together in a sweet state of camaraderie. There were, of course, problems in relationships between certain devotees, but the mood in general was very amicable. Some of the most pleasant times for me were when all of the devotees would come together and take prasadam. However there was a unanimously shared dread amongst all devotees, and that was in anticipation of the weekends when the Temple President and his wife would visit. No one was the least bit cheerful at the thought that by the week’s end, they would be arriving. The level of animosity finally resulted in a meeting which took place during the Caturdasi festival 2005 between German GBC members, the temple devotees, and the Temple Presidents. At this meeting the devotees had the chance of electing the Temple President and his wife out of their positions but, because of their soft-heartedness combined with the fact that no one knew of someone who could assume their responsibilities, the devotees did not vote them out of power but simply asked that they be more personal and careful in their dealings with us.

What was the cause of the animosity and dread that the Simhachalam community felt towards the Temple President and his wife?

At this point, I must unfortunately give voice to some very unpalatable facts and personal observations. In reference to the style of political maneuvering which I observed, the term Machiavellian comes to mind. On four separate occasions I saw the Temple President and his wife use and then dispose of four separate devotees to achieve political ends. The first occasion is that of a local Prabhupada disciple, I will refer to him as Prabhupada das. Prabhupada das who was living amongst the community was generally known for his bad habit of gossiping and speaking very harsh words against devotees. He spoke particularly at length with a very innocent and influential brahmachari, whose guru is Kadamba Kanana Maharaja, so I will refer to him as KKS das. Prabhupada das particularly had a problem with Narahari mataji as well as another devotee whose guru was Prithu Prabhu, so I will refer to him as P. Prabhu das.

P. Prabhu das had been at Simhachalam not very long and had come into conflict with the Temple President because of difference of opinion. Now I will admit that P. Prabhu das was and is a very ambitious person and it was no secret that he believed himself capable of performing in the role of Temple President. He was thus perceived by Vedanta Krit and his wife as a threat to their position of power. Prabhupada das would spend very much time with the Temple Presidents when they would come for their bi-weekly visits. One could see them discussing in low voices, sometimes lounging outside on the temple grounds. Prabhupada das was in a very real sense used in the manner of a spy, and one could see that Arjunia Gopi took great pleasure in her crow-like gossip with Prabhupada das. At one point, for reasons which are not particularly clear to me, the Temple President and his wife turned against Prabhupada das and he, with a great sense of animosity, hurt, and betrayal, left Simhachalam. If asked for my opinion I would say that it was in order to save face at their exposure and failure in their attempt to bring down P. Prabhu das. I know for certain that Prabhupada das has an alcohol problem and some believe that he was drinking during his stay at Simhachalam. I do not mean to degrade this devotee. I tried as much as possible to be friendly in my dealing with him despite his shortcomings and I personally had no bad feelings for this devotee.

I witnessed the continued power struggle and growing animosity that the Temple Presidents had for P. Prabhu das, and eventually P. Prabhu das gave in and took his wife and child and with a great sense of animosity, hurt, and betrayal, left Simhachalam.

The second occasion involves the above-mentioned KKS das brahmachari. I would first of all like to state that this devotee is a very good friend of mine and I had an excellent time with him during my stay on the farm. This case involves the Temple Presidents giving the recommendation to KKS das’s guru for Brahmin initiation. They did this not because they had any kind of respect or good will to this brahmachari, but because they wanted him to replace another pujari and because this brahmachari at that time was having problems with Narahari mataji. The “problematic” pujari happened to be a godbrother of the Temple Presidents from Poland, who lived at Simhachalam with his wife and two young children. This is an extremely wonderful devotee family. This pujari, however, was having disagreements with Vedanta Krit, mostly based upon the immature and irrational behavior of the Temple Presidents. They began to see this pujari as a threat to their power and they slowly turned on him.

They decided to give the recommendation for the Brahmin initiation of KKS das against the urgings of the pujari, who had valid grounds to doubt the qualification of KKS das to receive brahminical initiation. They did this with the intention of replacing this pujari. This pujari eventually took his wife and children and left with deep feelings of hurt, betrayal and animosity for his godbrother and sister, Vedanta Krit and Arjunia Gopi.

I left Simhachalam in the summer of 2005 and returned in the winter. As I was riding in the car with my friend towards the temple on my return, I saw a car abruptly pull to the side of the road. I saw a woman inside hysterically crying. I then realized it was Ajunia Gopi, Vedanta Krit was driving. When I got to the temple I immediately took my belongings upstairs to the brahmachari ashram. When I came down, I saw KKS das brahmachari and he was also completely disturbed and on edge, as well as the rest of the devotees on the farm. At this time the Temple Presidents had already returned. When I saw KKS das brahmachari he was on the verge of tears and broke ................

full article:http://harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-08/editorials2559.htm

[son_of_erin2000]

I never thought ISKCON had corruption this bad within,and it is a real shame that they exploit their members like this. makes one reluctant to even want to purchase a book from them knowing it is just funding this type of lunacy.do hope that these devotees are able to find some relief elsewhere outside of iskcon. om nama ugra-narasimha dev

[suchandra]

 

I never thought ISKCON had corruption this bad within,and it is a real shame that they exploit their members like this. makes one reluctant to even want to purchase a book from them knowing it is just funding this type of lunacy.do hope that these devotees are able to find some relief elsewhere outside of iskcon. om nama ugra-narasimha dev

 

Thanks son of Erin, yes Lord Nrsingadvea is surelly angry with these folks. Thing is when having lived for so long within ISKCON you can't just make a new start from nothing in the materialists society. Remember, all your work went into the movement, no savings, no bank balance, zero. To mob such devotees out is something like sending a cow to the slaughterhouse. These people are shameless and candidates for hell.

[Kulapavana]

I liked Rocana Prabhu's article on this issue: The Obligations of Accepting Service http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/editorials/02-08/editorials2558.htm

 

those accepting service definitely have obligations towards those rendering service - it is completely bogus to think otherwise. the idea that "Iskcon owes you nothing" after many years of service is just a scam of the sly vaishyas in charge of Iskcon today.

[bhaktajan]

 

Thanks son of Erin, yes Lord Nrsingadvea is surelly angry with these folks. Thing is when having lived for so long within ISKCON you can't just make a new start from nothing in the materialists society. Remember, all your work went into the movement, no savings, no bank balance, zero. To mob such devotees out is something like sending a cow to the slaughterhouse. These people are shameless and candidates for hell.

 

Attention Crumudgens, bridge trolls, vagabonds, wannbe gremlins, and hobgoblins:

 

Krishna's devotees [irregardless of what the stadium brawling hooligans shout] will be provided for, they always have and will always be protected and given full facility via Krishna's mercy and the devotees auspicious merit and righteous authority to be provided for by prakriti and the Devatas and also by Destiny Personified --all good will come to such devotees who (seemingly have been done wrong as reported third-hand over the internet by anonomous parties).

 

Pay your taxes and die. These are your alloted duties.

"Send a cow to slaughter" is your accusation??????????

"Shameless"??? Preachers of Krishna's very Existance are not good enough for you???

 

'Puffed-up' has reached a new definition when used by 'Mr. No-bodies'.

 

The Iskcon sphere of influence is beyond your privy. The ambrosia available at each Iskcon sponsored event must be reviewed by you??

 

Your opinion equates to Newspaper Cartoon editorials --for your self-amusement.

 

There are many younger legions of new comers to the temple. They all deserve the opportunity to relish the darsan of Vaisnava life without the pissed-corner-drunk bellowing about 'how it never was and could have been'

 

get a life and make a difference for the benefit of others life-goals,

Bhaktajan

[Kulapavana]

Once upon a time you dressed so fine

You threw the bums a dime in your prime, didn't you?

People'd call, say, "Beware doll, you're bound to fall"

You thought they were all kiddin' you

You used to laugh about

Everybody that was hangin' out

Now you don't talk so loud

Now you don't seem so proud

About having to be scrounging for your next meal.

How does it feel

How does it feel

To be without a home

Like a complete unknown

Like a rolling stone?

You've gone to the finest school all right, Miss Lonely

But you know you only used to get juiced in it

And nobody has ever taught you how to live on the street

And now you find out you're gonna have to get used to it

You said you'd never compromise

With the mystery tramp, but now you realize

He's not selling any alibis

As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes

And ask him do you want to make a deal?

How does it feel

How does it feel

To be on your own

With no direction home

Like a complete unknown

Like a rolling stone?

You never turned around to see the frowns on the jugglers and the clowns

When they all come down and did tricks for you

You never understood that it ain't no good

You shouldn't let other people get your kicks for you

You used to ride on the chrome horse with your diplomat

Who carried on his shoulder a Siamese cat

Ain't it hard when you discover that

He really wasn't where it's at

After he took from you everything he could steal.

How does it feel

How does it feel

To be on your own

With no direction home

Like a complete unknown

Like a rolling stone?

Princess on the steeple and all the pretty people

They're drinkin', thinkin' that they got it made

Exchanging all kinds of precious gifts and things

But you'd better lift your diamond ring, you'd better pawn it babe

You used to be so amused

At Napoleon in rags and the language that he used

Go to him now, he calls you, you can't refuse

When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose

You're invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal.

How does it feel

How does it feel

To be on your own

With no direction home

Like a complete unknown

Like a rolling stone?

<!-- END lyrics -->--------------------------------

 

may it never happen to you bhaktajan...<!-- spacer -->

[suchandra]

 

Once upon a time you dressed so fine

You threw the bums a dime in your prime, didn't you?

People'd call, say, "Beware doll, you're bound to fall"

You thought they were all kiddin' you

You used to laugh about

Everybody that was hangin' out

Now you don't talk so loud

Now you don't seem so proud

About having to be scrounging for your next meal.

How does it feel

How does it feel

To be without a home

Like a complete unknown

Like a rolling stone?

You've gone to the finest school all right, Miss Lonely

But you know you only used to get juiced in it

And nobody has ever taught you how to live on the street

And now you find out you're gonna have to get used to it

You said you'd never compromise

With the mystery tramp, but now you realize

He's not selling any alibis

As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes

And ask him do you want to make a deal?

How does it feel

How does it feel

To be on your own

With no direction home

Like a complete unknown

Like a rolling stone?

You never turned around to see the frowns on the jugglers and the clowns

When they all come down and did tricks for you

You never understood that it ain't no good

You shouldn't let other people get your kicks for you

You used to ride on the chrome horse with your diplomat

Who carried on his shoulder a Siamese cat

Ain't it hard when you discover that

He really wasn't where it's at

After he took from you everything he could steal.

How does it feel

How does it feel

To be on your own

With no direction home

Like a complete unknown

Like a rolling stone?

Princess on the steeple and all the pretty people

They're drinkin', thinkin' that they got it made

Exchanging all kinds of precious gifts and things

But you'd better lift your diamond ring, you'd better pawn it babe

You used to be so amused

At Napoleon in rags and the language that he used

Go to him now, he calls you, you can't refuse

When you got nothing, you got nothing to lose

You're invisible now, you got no secrets to conceal.

How does it feel

How does it feel

To be on your own

With no direction home

Like a complete unknown

Like a rolling stone?

<!-- END lyrics -->--------------------------------

 

<!-- spacer --> may it never happen to you bhaktajan...

Looks the actual problem is that people feel afraid to speak out and rather hide, according the saying by unknown, "One who keeps silent lives safely, those who speak out live in danger." Thanks NITYARUPA DEVI DASI for this article!

 

Another Voice in the Simhacalam Debate

 

BY: NITYARUPA DEVI DASI

 

Mar 4, AUSTRIA (SUN) —

At first I want to say that I'm a little bit afraid to let you know my opinion but at the same time I feel obligated to make you aware of this, at the risk that people will be annoyed with me and not take me seriously. However, after 16 years of Krsna consciousness I permit myself to this to say: I am outraged and horrified about the treatment of Narahari dd and her sister because I'm not seeing charity, understanding and humanity. I ask myself: where the Krsna consciousness has gone?

 

What are these kind of people, especially Devotees, which simply offend an older mataji who was loyal for 27 years and has done good service? May one not become old in ISKCON, be weak or be ill? If I look at this situation, I do not think that the people will show readiness for donating their time and energy in the future, and will they still dare to come to the farm?

 

It does not concern me personally, but this situation releases in us Viennese devotees a feeling of terror and lack of understanding. If one does not need an older mataji any more, she is simply disposed of like garbage. On top of that, the egoists with elbow technology win there always. The fact that Lord Krsna puts up with it I cannot understand, because He doesn't want to see His devotees suffering.

 

What still surprises me is the fact that certain authorities have placed the ISKCON temples in debt but are not called to account. Why do they still freely walk around, and now the innocent must pay the debts they created???? I cannot imagine that this is all Karma and Lord Sri Krsna deals with it. In this case it's easier to say that this is the will of Krsna than to admit: "I am greedy, silly and calculating, and everything belongs to me. I have got this, and now I can do with it what I want. And whether I run up debts or not, this is just Krsna's will and arrangement". This is a frivolous acceptance which uses the Devotees constantly: it's Krsna's will.

 

Now I use the opportunity to write about the guilt of ISKCON. I have not yet seen that somebody in ISKCON gets upset about this situation and starts looking for the real culprits. However, instead, an older mataji is persecuted. How should one understand this? In the end I would like to suggest to some authorities who have no HEART EDUCATION the good examples in temples of Copenhagen, Barcelona and Wroclaw. There serve the authorities who help other devotees with love, humility and devotion, and because of this one can feel energy, joy and spirituality.

 

Hare Krsna

Y.S. Nityarupa dd

 

 

[vaishnav das]

Dear Nitya Rupa Mataji;

Thank you for Your letter of concern but this issue goes not about “offending” as You put it. Coming once a Year to the Farm I would almost word for word accept your letter as truth, but it´s NOT.

The matter of fact is that for several Years the Farmleaders have dealt with this issue and that it had this outcome is surley sad and confusing for many of us “outsiders”, who do not live on that project.

We can find many faults in almost all Temples inside and outside of ISKCON but the matter of fact is that I could witness much of the offending behaviour of Narahari Mataji towards other Devotees and she always used the term “ Narasimha will kic you out! ”

I just think it is a good opportunity to go intourselfs and look if our own behaviour is not also similar in many occasions in wich we think that the Lord is on our side but deep within ourselves we have to admit that it is not.

“It takes always two to tango” so we cannot and should not put all the blame only on one side.

Narahari Mataji is always very sweet during the festivals and when many visitors are on the farm but she has also a side wich is not often seen in public and this side is deeply hurting. So much anger and grief has seems to have accumulated for many many Years and it shows us that it is not always so easy to stay in a project like Simhachalam.

I do not want to hurt or offend you but are You really aware what was going on there or have you just heard from someone who heard It from someone else??

Your statements indicat that, sorry to say that.

It does not concern me personally, but this situation releases in us Viennese devotees a feeling of terror and lack of understanding. If one does not need an older mataji any more, she is simply disposed of like garbage. On top of that, the egoists with elbow technology win there always. The fact that Lord Krsna puts up with it I cannot understand, because He doesn't want to see His devotees suffering.

The farm management did not dispose them like garbage firstly since Narahari Mataji lives in a newly acquired house with her sister, her nice and her new wed husband Bh. Daniel. Why is there a feeling of terror and lack of understanding??? Why don’t You just contact the <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place><st1:PlaceType>Temple</st1:PlaceType> <st1:PlaceName>managment</st1:PlaceName></st1:place> and ask how all this happened.

I think one of the biggest problems we have to face is that we are just hearing and concluding in spiritual matters O.K. but otherwise it goes too much in the gossiping and speculating realm.

What still surprises me is the fact that certain authorities have placed the ISKCON temples in debt but are not called to account. Why do they still freely walk around, and now the innocent must pay the debts they created???? I cannot imagine that this is all Karma and Lord Sri Krsna deals with it. In this case it's easier to say that this is the will of Krsna than to admit: "I am greedy, silly and calculating, and everything belongs to me. I have got this, and now I can do with it what I want. And whether I run up debts or not, this is just Krsna's will and arrangement". This is a frivolous acceptance which uses the Devotees constantly: it's Krsna's will.

I don’t get that one Do you talk about the Farm now or about the Austrian Yatra??? Vedanta Krit Prabhu and Arjunia Gopi Mataji are keeping the farm since they accepted the responsibility for the Farm DEBTFREE!!! So no new debts only the ones left to them to deal with!! By previous Managers which I will not mention here.

Now I use the opportunity to write about the guilt of ISKCON. I have not yet seen that somebody in ISKCON gets upset about this situation and starts looking for the real culprits. However, instead, an older mataji is persecuted. How should one understand this? In the end I would like to suggest to some authorities who have no HEART EDUCATION the good examples in temples of <st1:City><st1:place>Copenhagen</st1:place></st1:City>, <st1:City><st1:place>Barcelona</st1:place></st1:City> and <st1:City><st1:place>Wroclaw</st1:place></st1:City>. There serve the authorities who help other devotees with love, humility and devotion, and because of this one can feel energy, joy and spirituality.

Whom do You mean with culprit? What have You heard that makes you think that Narahari Mataji has been persecuted?? I thin before making such statements You should really know more about the whole issue otherwise it is just dangerous for your spiritual live since it is one think that destroys bhakti its called Kuti - Nati or village gossip.

I can only say that this decision that Narahari Mataji and her sister leave the temple came NOT FROM THE TEMPLE MANAGEMENT BUT FROM THE GBC DIRECTLY. I think in the future we shall see that it was the best for Narahari Mataji and her family and that outside they will prosper more than they couls have ever imagined since

“KRISHNA TAKES ALWAYS CARE OF HIS DEVOTEES”

[suchandra]

 

............I would almost word for word accept your letter as truth, but it´s NOT..................

It is of course clear that the GBC would never admit having done anything wrong, why should they? So far they never admitted having done anything wrong. You push senior devotees into a situation in which at one point anyone loses one's poise. Then you point fingers, look, now he/she is showing the true face, good-bye. Fortunately Narahari Mataji isn't alone, also all of Prabhupada's 180 German disciples are meanwhile removed from ISKCON except a handful of those who support the driving out of senior Vaishnavas.

And the newcomers who ask questions what happened with all these Vaishnavas, you tell them they all blooped.

In sum, Prabhupada was too foolish to accept those spiritual weaklings, bloopers, fringies and deserters as his disciples and therefore you're better than Prabhupada because you know all this and can explain, "what really happened". But never forget, pride goes before a fall.

As Bhakta David below points out, the GBC is very happy to have paid personnel in the temples.

 

Bhakta David, posted 5 March 2008, http://www.planetiskcon.com/: It is interesting that there is an ongoing debate within the movement as to devotee’s being paid within the temple.

In fact it is hard for some to understand how some temple devotees earn more than they do in paid employment outside of the temple.

I am becoming increasingly concerned that more and more people I talk to are simply at the temple because they are being paid, and like so many it can be easy to become a little resentful, angry or in fact jealous (if only I could live in the temple and be paid to).

But then a had a small realisation it is that even if the individual is there simply because he is paid whether a small allowance of what could appear to be a vast sum of money, he is still there simply because he is attracted to Krishna’s, or for some his wealth that they would like to share in.

The main thing is that they are working in the temple and having good association (most if not all the time) and although it is a sad fact that a small majority of individuals would not be there if it wasn’t for the fact that they get paid we should focus more on the fact they are, and this is after all the best place for them to be, isn’t it?

This I feel is part of what Srila Prabhupada was highlighting to Bob, we are there because we are attracted to Krsna.

[Kulapavana]

 

What still surprises me is the fact that certain authorities have placed the ISKCON temples in debt but are not called to account. Why do they still freely walk around, and now the innocent must pay the debts they created???? I cannot imagine that this is all Karma and Lord Sri Krsna deals with it. In this case it's easier to say that this is the will of Krsna than to admit: "I am greedy, silly and calculating, and everything belongs to me. I have got this, and now I can do with it what I want. And whether I run up debts or not, this is just Krsna's will and arrangement". This is a frivolous acceptance which uses the Devotees constantly: it's Krsna's will.

I don’t get that one Do you talk about the Farm now or about the Austrian Yatra??? Vedanta Krit Prabhu and Arjunia Gopi Mataji are keeping the farm since they accepted the responsibility for the Farm DEBTFREE!!! So no new debts only the ones left to them to deal with!! By previous Managers which I will not mention here.

 

The way I understand it, the gist of the issue is that the persons responsible for creating the current tremendous debt of German and Austrian yatras were never disciplined by the GBC, while Narahari mataji was. On the scale of problems of that yatra Narahari M. obviously ranks at the very bottom, while the debt is at the very top. So why such inaction of GBC on important issues and such a heavy handed response on light ones? Perhaps you can explain that to us, prabhu?

[bhaktajan]

 

. . .

The farm management did not dispose them like garbage firstly since Narahari Mataji lives in a newly acquired house with her sister, her nice and her new wed husband Bh. Daniel.

 

Why is there a feeling of terror and lack of understanding???

 

Why don’t You just contact the managment </ST1:Pand ask how all this happened.

I think one of the biggest problems we have to face is that we are just hearing and concluding in spiritual matters ... but ... it goes too much in the gossiping and speculating realm.

 

“KRISHNA TAKES ALWAYS CARE OF HIS DEVOTEES”

 

Well, well well! So, 'Haaaa Haaaa'. Just see! Just see.

 

Dear Vaisnava dasa,

 

I am so sorry you have been offended by these postings.

 

They are all third hand rantings.

Just see how no details are given --just derogatory laments which have only one FULLY PERFECT PURPOSE: degrade the work of Vaisnavas and thus propagate bad Public Relations.

 

Just when we have a chance to help in the war against Islamic Terrorism we are burdened with tangential rants by blasé wannbe aristocrates.

 

"If you cannot lead, then follow or get out of the way!!"

 

.............................................................................................

Dear Charlie,

"Somebody [iskcon] did something and it is so bad and sinful and degraded [iskcon]. Oh, I have been misled by such cheating demons [iskcon] stole my chance to be a renunciant. They [iskcon] will not introduce me to rich, beautiful and intelligent people! How could anyone follow such perverts and stinky footed liars [iskcon].

 

I will never go to the [iskcon] temple of those pedophiles. I must do something to spread the news, [anti-Iskcon] even though I am un-informed about any subject and do so little in regards to 'spiritual life' [iskcon]. I must save the world by posting posting about [iskcon] what I know better than others who know much less than they think they know --and then I can feel I am very noble, enlightened, magnanimous and better than [iskcon] other sangas"

 

servant of my senses,

sanga of one