Life Partners In Krsna Consiousness

[suchandra]

LIFE PARTNERS IN KRSNA CONSIOUSNESS

 

by HG Sundari Radhika Mataji

Thu 07 Feb 2008 08:57 PM LKT

http://akincanaforum.eponym.com/blog/_archives/2008/2/7/3510541.html

 

Dear Mataji,

Please accept my humble obeisances. All glories to Srila Prabhupada. All

glories to Guru Maharaja.

If one partner is a devotee and the other one is not (yet), it is not a

problem if devotee partner knows what is her duty towards Krsna in this

situation. In my answer that follows we are assuming that the husband is a

normal karmi man and not a homicidal maniac (murderer) or in some other way

having serious clinical mental problems.

All women have just one duty or dharma in this world--- to serve her

husband. It is called stri-dharma (SB 7.11.25-29). For the wife vivaha is

her second birth (dvi-ja) her initiation into Vedic culture. And moving into

husband’s house is not just moving into the house, it means she goes to live

in the asrama. Who’s asrama? The ashrama of her husband. If husband is

qualified it is grhasta ashrama. If not it is grhamedi life. But it does not

matter if husband is qualified or not according to our standard or

expectations. He is still our guru, representative of Krsna. Who sent us

this husband? Krsna sent him. The wife can still make spiritual progress

even if husband is not a devotee.

So what is it that Krsna wants from me, you, and other jiva’s in this

female body? As devotees we want to please Krsna. Krsna says that for

brahmacari, guru is His representative, for child, Mother is representative

of Krsna, and for wife, her husband is representative of Krsna. As a

brahmacari lights the fire for sacrifice in the asrama of his guru, so does

the wife when she lights fire in the kitchen to cook for her husband. That

is her sacrifice. And Krsna accepts it equally. (This is explained in Manu

Samhita.)

The point is that wife makes spiritual progress if she performs her

prescribed duty which is – serving her husband (SB 7.11.25-29). She performs

her duty and results of that service she offers to Krsna for His pleasure.

“Perform your prescribed duty, for doing so is better than not working.

One cannot even maintain one's physical body without work. Work done as a

sacrifice for Visnu has to be performed, otherwise work causes bondage in

this material world. Therefore, O son of Kunti, perform your prescribed

duties for His satisfaction, and in that way you will always remain free

from bondage.” BG 3.8-9

She may not love to serve husband who is not a devotee, but she serves him

as her duty to please Krsna (BG 5.29). Wife should not be rude, criticize or

fight with husband as this would be even greater sin than any fault he may

possess. His faults should be dealt with by his superiors or equals not by

his subordinate (wife). Although he may not be qualified she should be

respectful, in the same way as she is respectful to her guru. Guru may

criticize, but disciple will not be rude and disrespectful. So why should

the wife be angry and rude with her husband? Hiranyakasipu abused his own

son Prahlad, but Prahlad was never disrespectful to him. He always

approached his father with folded palms saying: “O greatest of all demons.”

Prahlad was never rude. Although his father literally wanted to kill his own

son Prahlad was always respectful. Nrsimhadeva corrected his father.

For wife service to husband is her sacrifice (BG 3.14-15); it’s not that

she should sacrifice a goat in the temple.she should sacrifice her false

ego, mind, body in the service of her husband. And she makes spiritual

advancement. Like we have a murti of Krsna in some material form—He may be

carved and made with very delicate and attractive features, or He may be

painted or carved not really perfect, but still Krsna is present in those

Deity murtis and we offer our service to Him. Even imperfectly carved murti

is still Krsna’s manifestation in this world. So is the husband for wife;

perfect, imperfect, good, bad, devotee, or non-devotee.

If husband wants her to serve him meat, alcohol, sex, etc, she should

serve him. She will not get any reaction for doing that (BG 18.47), because

she is doing her dharma (stri dharma); she is following her husband’s

instructions, which means she is following her duty. So she will not get any

reaction, but her husband will get reaction if he demands something that is

not according to dharma. Though wife gets no karma it may affect her

consciousness, for example she would get no karma for cooking meat but she

may feel disgusted.

The point is that everyone should follow their dharma or prescribed duty.

Krsna arranged this world in such a way so that everyone is able to make

spiritual advancement by following his or her prescribed duty (BG 18.46).

For women it is simple. Just follow what your husband says. So however we

turn, if wife is able to adjust and follow her husband she makes

advancement. If she disobeys her husband, she degrades herself, slowly and

surely. Krsna always sends for us a husband who is best for us to practice

for our relationship with Krsna. Remember we can not get into the spiritual

world until we develop the service attitude. So now we have opportunity to

practice serving Krsna by serving His representative that He sent to us and

whom we got by our own karma. If we are dealing on platform of justice and

morality and think “if my husband is not good then I will not serve him,”

then we are not going to like Krsna. How will we tolerate that Krsna said He

is going to be with me but is instead with another gopi? Is that justice?

No it is not.

“I know no one but Krsna as my Lord, and He shall remain so even if He

handles me roughly by His embrace or makes me brokenhearted by not being

present before me. He is completely free to do anything and everything, for

He is always my worshipful Lord, unconditionally.”

So there is so much we have to practice. (Of course as I said at beginning

we are assuming that we are dealing with normal men not perverts or

criminals. Nor should men take advantage of this because by so doing they

would reap serious bad karma.)

If husband is not a devotee, we have to do our duties, cooking (what he

wants), cleaning, taking care of all family members etc. Speaking sweetly

and be respectful. Have faith in Krsna that by serving nicely your husband

He will be happy with you and if He wants He will change heart of the

husband. And even if he doesn’t want to become devotee, if he is pleased

with service of his wife, he will not be able to make obstacles in her

devotional life. He will have respect for such a wife. And Krsna will be

pleased.

Your humble servant,

Sundari Radhika dd

[KrishnasGirl]

Hare Krishna.

And thank you for posting this article.

 

I have to say, it would be an honor to serve a nice devotee husband. This article is definately inspiring, and I'm looking forward to being a good wife some day. Of course if that is what Krsna wants for me.

[madanbhakta]

Thank you for providing that article. It does remind me though that I am somewhat in a pickle, because I have a same-sex (particularly non-sexual) relationship with a significant other. We are both male, and both Gaudiya Vaishnavas, although we are both from two different Missions. We both aspire to become initiated some day.

 

I am wondering how such a call to gender roles come to play with such relationships. In any case, I do not mind taking the role of a servitor, and seeing him as my 'gurudeva'. If I can make him happy, then Krishna will be happy with me.

[theist]

[KrishnasGirl]

Does anyone have an answer for madanbhakta?

 

I am wondering myself, what is the view on same sex marriages amost the movement? Did Srila Prabhupada ever mention anything regarding this topic?

 

Hare Krishna.

 

 

Thank you for providing that article. It does remind me though that I am somewhat in a pickle, because I have a same-sex (particularly non-sexual) relationship with a significant other. We are both male, and both Gaudiya Vaishnavas, although we are both from two different Missions. We both aspire to become initiated some day.

 

I am wondering how such a call to gender roles come to play with such relationships. In any case, I do not mind taking the role of a servitor, and seeing him as my 'gurudeva'. If I can make him happy, then Krishna will be happy with me.

[theist]

Yes. He considered the topic of homosexuality as not fit for much conversation but he made it clear it is demonic.

 

That said he accepted manynon-practicing homosexual disciples and he loved them as much as any other disciple. So there is no bar to anyone from taking part in Krsna conscious activities but there is a bar to the acceptance of same sex marriages.

[theist]

 

 

TRANSLATION

Lord Brahma then gave birth to the demons from his buttocks, and they were very fond of sex. Because they were too lustful, they approached him for copulation.

 

PURPORT

Sex life is the background of material existence. Here also it is repeated that demons are very fond of sex life. The more one is free from the desires for sex, the more he is promoted to the level of the demigods; the more one is inclined to enjoy sex, the more he is degraded to the level of demoniac life.

 

TRANSLATION

The worshipful Brahma first laughed at their stupidity, but finding the shameless asuras close upon him, he grew indignant and ran in great haste out of fear.

 

PURPORT

Sexually inclined demons have no respect even for their father, and the best policy for a saintly father like Brahma is to leave such demoniac sons.

SB 3.20.24

 

TRANSLATION

He approached the Personality of Godhead, who bestows all boons and who dispels the agony of His devotees and of those who take shelter of His lotus feet. He manifests His innumerable transcendental forms for the satisfaction of His devotees. SB 3.20.25

 

 

TRANSLATION

Lord Brahmä, approaching the Lord, addressed Him thus: My Lord, please protect me from these sinful demons, who were created by me under Your order. They are infuriated by an appetite for sex and have come to attack me.

 

PURPORT

It appears here that the homosexual appetite of males for each other is created in this episode of the creation of the demons by Brahmä. In other words, the homosexual appetite of a man for another man is demoniac and is not for any sane male in the ordinary course of life.

SB 3.20.26

 

There are many other statements in Conversations but I don't want to get into this topic again. This should suffice.

[suchandra]

 

Yes. He considered the topic of homosexuality as not fit for much conversation but he made it clear it is demonic.

 

That said he accepted manynon-practicing homosexual disciples and he loved them as much as any other disciple. So there is no bar to anyone from taking part in Krsna conscious activities but there is a bar to the acceptance of same sex marriages.

 

Bishma's vow:

 

[KrishnasGirl]

vow of life-long celibacy

 

should there be something under your statement?

 

 

Bishma's vow:

[indulekhadasi]

KrishnasGirl,

 

Suchandra prabhu is a very advanced Vaishnava and expects everyone to be just as advanced as him, therfore he thought there was no need to explain his statement.

[KrishnasGirl]

sorry for asking but I noticed he used a colon ":" after his statement so I wondered if there was something missing under it.

-I was in another computer earlier and the picture of Bhisma didn't show up.. im at my home computer now and I can now see the nice picture.

 

thanks. and hare krishna.

 

 

KrishnasGirl,

 

Suchandra prabhu is a very advanced Vaishnava and expects everyone to be just as advanced as him, therfore he thought there was no need to explain his statement.

[theist]

Never been good at lifelong celibacy myself so I don't want to seem like I think heterosexual illicit sex is somehow ok and homosexuality is not. They are both wrong and a block in genuine spiritual practice.

 

Homosexuality though is against the general plan of nature. I am sure we are all aware of basic anatomy so it should be obvious on that level. There is really no way to dovetail it in society as in having Krsna conscious children. "I am sex life not contrary to religious principles" Gita.

 

So what about so-calle celibate homosexual "life partners" or "married" couples? Well we all know the once a month rule and then only for having children is not kept by anyone married couples expect the rare few exceptions. So the idea of married homosexuals keeping to that is a farce.

 

So let's look at the pyschic/emotional side. There is a difference in the pyches and emotions between men and women. It's built in and comes with the body. Women are more personally nurturous preparing them for their role as bearers of children.

 

Now a man who is overly femine may have a hormone imbalance which is considered a problem to be corrected medically. A woman who is overly masculine may have a similar imbalance but instead of having too much estrogen in relation to testosterone has too much testosterone to estrogen. It is understood in medicine that male and female bodies are different and need to be balanced according to different standards.

 

Of course there is more to homosexuality that hormones. It relates back to past lives in ways I do not understand but for some reason people with female mentalities take birth in male forms causing so much distress for themselves with desires that at odds with their gender. It is a confused state and confused states can not be sanctified by God just for the sake of the individuals peace of mind and social acceptance. It is we humans that must adjust according to the laws of God and not the other way around.

 

Homosexuals can remain practicing homosexuals and still chant Hare Krsna, attend kirtan and festivals classes etc. as can losers like myself who has always been below the standard of vaidhi bhakti as prescribed by Srila Prabhupada.

 

There is no value in pretending anything difference. To do so simply willfull self deception and directly against the expressed will of Srila Prabhupada. He blasted Christian priests for holding so-called homosex marriages. Those exchanges are in Conversations. Anyone who tries to introduce such a thing within iskcon as Hridayanada tried to do is diametrically opposed to Srila Prabhupada in this matter.

 

Man + man or woman + woman as life partners in Krsna consciousness is called friendship. That is a bone fide rasa and is perverted with amorous feelings for each other.

[suchandra]

 

KrishnasGirl,

 

Suchandra prabhu is a very advanced Vaishnava and expects everyone to be just as advanced as him, therfore he thought there was no need to explain his statement.

Well, thanks Indulekhadasi would be nice if true, but I was actually disrupted while doing this post. Generally, great devotees take vows to please Lord Krishna; they never take vows for fruitive gain. Bhishma took this vow of celebacy so his father could enjoy material sense gratification. One may say that this has nothing to due with pure devotional service, and in fact it doesn't. However, Bhishma was cursed by Vashistha Muni to not have female companionship. His vow was simply a fulfillment of that curse, and had nothing to do with any fruitive desire of his own. Also, Bhishma was a great devotee and was under the influence of Krishna's Yogamaya potency. In other words, this situation set the scene for the Lord's forthcoming appearance and would play a role for instructing the whole world.

 

 

Sanjaya continued: King Yudhisthira greatly lamented the loss of so many

troops on the first day of battle. Seeing Bhishma devour his army, he went to

Lord Vasudeva and poured out his heart, "Behold, O Krishna, the invincible

prowess of the mighty bowman Bhishma. He is consuming my army like fire

consumes grass. No one can stand before him when he releases his celestial

weapons upon my troops. Yamaraja, Varuna, Kuvera or even Indra can be defeated,

but the mighty chariot fighter, Bhishma, cannot be stopped. Such being the

case, I am drowning in the great ocean of Ganga's son without a boat to rescue

me. I am unable to watch as my best warriors are slain. I shall, therefore,

retire to the forest to perform severe austerities, and save these great

warriors from the fire of the colossal Bhishma. Tell me, O Madhava, what I can

do prevent this slaughter? Although Arjuna is our only hope, I see that he is

indifferent, for although we are being slaughtered by Bhishma and Drona, he

does not take action. Endowed with supernatural powers, Bhima alone is

extinguishing the enemy troops. But at this rate it will take a hundred years

to defeat the enemy. O Govinda, please find the person who can stop Ganga's son

and the great Drona, so that after the enemy demise our kinsmen will live

happily in this world."

 

Arjuna full of doubts

 

Seeing Kunti's first son conquered by despair, the lotus eyed Lord smilingly

instructed him, "Do not grieve, O chief of the Bharatas, especially when your

brothers are great bowmen. I am planning for your victory, and so are Drupada,

Virata and Satyaki. The mighty chariot fighter, Dhristadyumna, is arranging the

troops to subjugate our enemy. He will certainly cause Drona's death, and

Shikhandi will bring about the death of Bhishma. This has been ordained by

providence."

source: Mahabharata

 

[Sarva gattah]

 

 

Again I woke the household up laughing, great sense of humor theist

[suchandra]

Survey: Hindus Have the Lowest Divorce Rate in USA

 

By Aziz Haniffa for Rediff News (India) on 26 Feb 2008

 

Image: Jovika

 

 

<!--paging_filter-->Not only are the Hindus and Mormons the most likely to be married (78 percent and 71 percent respectively), but also the most likely to be married to someone within their own faith (90 percent and 83 percent respectively), a landmark survey that details the religious affiliation of the American public and explores the remarkable dynamism taking place in the US religious marketplace has found.

The study, titled the U.S. Religious Landscape Survey, released on Monday by the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, also found that Hindus also have the lowest divorce rate of any group --only 5 percent have been divorced.

It also noted that nearly half of Hindus in the US, one-third of Jews and a quarter of Buddhists have obtained postgraduate education, compared with only about one-in-10 of the adult population overall.

The survey that was based on interviews conducted in English and Spanish with a nationally representative sample of over 35,000 adults, and includes detailed information on religious affiliation and provides estimates of the size of religious groups that are as small as three-tenth of 1 percent of the population, also found that Hindus and Jews are much more likely than other groups to report high income levels.

More than four in 10 of Hindus and Jews (43 percent and 46 percent respectively) made more than $100,000 per year.

In sharp contrast to Hinduism and Islam, Buddhism in the US is primarily made up of native-born adherents, whites and converts, and only one-in-three American Buddhists describe their race as Asian, and three-in-four Buddhists say they are converts to Buddhism,it said.

The survey also found that Mormons and Muslims are the groups with the largest families with more than one-in-five Mormon and 15 percent of Muslim adults in the US having three or more children living at home.

Hindus were less likely than other traditions to have no children living at home (52 percent), but compared with Muslims and Mormons, "they are more likely to have smaller families, with only a small number (3 percent) having three or more children at home', the study said.

Luis Lugo, director of the Pew Forum, said, "People will be surprised by the amount of movement by Americans from one religious group to another-- or to no religion at all. They'll also be surprised by the extent to which immigration is helping to reshape the US religious landscape."

Greg Smith, Research Fellow at the Pew Forum, who along with John Green, Senior Fellow at the Forum, and Lugo who participated in a teleconference with reporters, said the features and methodological strengths of the project revealed "some fascinating details about the demographics of a variety of religious groups".

"We find that for instance, Hindus, stand out compared with other religious groups for their extraordinary high levels of educational attainment," he said, and pointed out that "nearly half of Hindus in the United States--48 percent--have obtained postgraduate education over and above earning a college degree."

Smith said, "That means that more than four times as many Hindus have reached this educational level as compared with the public overall."

With regard to nativity by religious tradition, when the survey breaks down the various religious traditions by nationality, it found that Hindus, Muslims and members of Orthodox churches were the groups most heavily comprised of immigrants--86 percent, 65 percent and 38 percent of these groups, respectively, were born in another country.

Lugo predicted that "every indication is that adherence of these other world religions, such as Islam, Buddhism and Hinduism, will continue to grow as a percentage of the US population."

He said that when the Census Bureau took its own numbers back in the mid-1950s, "all these groups were virtually a rounding error. So clearly they are growing and we know that you don't need a high percentage of folks who are new of different as perceived by most folks in society to generate a lot of conversation, not least in politics and how do we accommodate the increasing diversity".

Lugo said that "even 5 percent folks from these other world religions, which to most Americans are very new and very strange, generates a significant challenge for the country to begin to expand the process of accommodating beyond the categories that are most comfortable with--Protestant, Catholic and Jew"