Uttama Adikari Knows Who's Liberated

[suchandra]

Good points by Suria prabhu (see below), however, situation remains as it is, Vaishnavism is irresistibly splitting up exactly like any other mundane religion - no charismatic personality with the power to unify in sight.

 

Haṁsadūta: What ever the man will say, they will do.

Prabhupāda: Charmistic? What is called? Charmistic Guru? He has said Dr. …

Hari-śauri: Charismatic.

Prabhupāda: Charismatic. Yes, what is that charismatic?

Haṁsadūta: Charisma means a person who has a very strong attraction, he attracts.

Prabhupāda: He has said, actually our whole movement is going on on this. Everyone is carrying the charismatic, all.

Hari-śauri: Yeah, they know there’s something different about our movement, I mean from any other. Everybody who sees the devotees for the first time, they immediately know these people are completely different from anyone else.

Prabhupāda: Yasya deve parā bhaktir, yathā deve tathā gurau [ŚU 6.23], this is the Vedic principle of our movement. Yasya deve parā bhaktir, yathā deve tathā gurau.

Haṁsadūta: Have faith.

Prabhupāda: To respect and love the spiritual master as God. Therefore it is brainwash.

Haṁsadūta: This is the strength of our movement, faith in the guru and śāstra.

Prabhupāda: And everyone is writing, let them write that. So they see that, “Why this one man is so respectfully accepted, it is brainwash.”

Hari-śauri: Hm.

Prabhupāda: They may sometimes give me trouble.

Haṁsadūta: Yes, generally it happens like that. If someone becomes very prominent, then they want to remove him. This is the tendency in the world.

Hari-śauri: Yeah, because the demons, they think anyone who will allow themselves to become the servant of someone else, then they think he has got very weak character. Then they accuse the person who is in charge of manipulating that person.

Prabhupāda: Just like there are so many men now, they are against this Sai Baba.

Haṁsadūta: Yes.

Prabhupāda: Sai Baba is actually doing that brainwash. But they don’t think of… [break]

Haṁsadūta: Yes, because people cannot discriminate. They have no power to discriminate. They group us with all these other bogus people.

Prabhupāda: But that happened when Caitanya Mahāprabhu was being praised by the Nawab. They were asking about Caitanya Mahāprabhu, “What is the position of this man that so many people are following him?” So, Sanātana Goswami, who was very bright, took it as a warning and asked Caitanya Mahāprabhu that you leave this place as soon as possible.

Haṁsadūta: Hm.

Prabhupāda: So Caitanya Mahāprabhu was not afraid, but He, as usual, He left that place. But Sanātana Goswami, at that time minister…

Haṁsadūta: He could understand.

Prabhupāda: He took advice, the Nawab was so serious about Him. A Mohammedan may do something. So he said, “It is not good to stay here. You should go away.” They decided that we shall go now with Him but in the meantime let Him go. Because there were parts of India, Mohammedan influence, especially Bengal was Mohammedan kingdom. So this was warning. Then he told the Nawab that, “He is a beggar. Why do you think of him as serious man? He is beggar. Some people follow him, not many.” So he said. “Don’t try to mislead me. I know. He’s not beggar, He’s God. Otherwise how so many people are following Him?” The Nawab he said that.

 

Room Conversation

with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

October 31, 1976, Vṛndāvana

http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/761031rc.vrn.htm

 

 

How Would you Know who is Liberated?

BY: SURIA PRABHU

 

Feb 6, SINGAPORE (SUN) — Response to Mahesh Prabhu's "

He is Not a Liberated Person

".

 

Dear Mahesh Prabhuji, I know, you do not understand what constitute Guru and disciple so no point in me speaking about that, as I have shown you enough evidence to suggest that the Ritvik system in place now is wrong. I have given enough of Srila Prabhupada's quotes to refute you and you chose to remain ignorant. Riviks I find dedicate their whole time in criticizing other Vaishnavas. Why not just glorify Srila Prabhupada and stop criticizing others? Being a former Ritvik myself, I'm aware of what it is like being a Ritvik; when I look back I'm ashamed of myself.

 

The point I'm raising here is, how would you know who is liberated and who is not? What is your position in the first place to judge? Who are you? Are you an Uttama Adhikari to judge others?

 

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura has given some practical hints to the effect that an uttama-adhikari Vaisnava can be recognized by his ability to convert many fallen souls to Vaisnavism. There are Spiritual Masters within ISKCON and other maths who are able to do this. It is clear, everyone can see it with their blunted material eyes.

 

I was inspired by the Ritvik Temple President in Singapore to take up Krishna Consciousness, not just by reading books, but by association and lectures given by him. I was impressed and took up the process. I'm in no position to judge if he is Kanistha Adhikari, Madhyama-adhikari or Uttama Adikari, so similary you cannot judge anyone. If one Guru falls down that does not means all of them are fallen. One rotten apple does not make all apples rotten. Get this clear fact. It has been more than 30 years since His Divine Grace left, and some of his disciples have grown and there are Uttama Adikaris within ISKCON and other maths. It is very clear, I can see it based on Bhaktivinoda Thakura evidence.

 

You yourself have mis-quoted Srila Prabhupada's quote some months back. Here let me post:

 

Mahesh Prabhu wrote:

•  

  • Srila Prabhupada Room Conversation, July 18, 1971, Detroit:
    
    
    Prabhupada: "Yes. All of them will take over. These students, who are initiated from me, all of them will act
    as I am doing
    . Just like I have got many Godbrothers, they are all
    acting
    . Similarly, all these disciples which I am making, initiating,
    they are being trained to become future spiritual masters
    ."
  The key word here is ACTING as I have mentioned in my article, "
  Diksa Given to Madhyama-adhikari is Not a Formality
  ".

   

  What is wrong if they ACT AS in OFFICIATING (RITVIK Representative) capacity? Srila Prabhupada mentioned his Godbrothers were not ACARYA so they MUST be ACTING capacity---NOT OTHERWISE. That's why Srila Prabhupada says "Just like I have got many Godbrothers, they are ALL ACTING."

You have simply misquoted Srila Prabhupada's words. Based on Srila Prabupada's room conversation, he said very clearly ";

all of them will act

as I am doing

". So "act as I am doing" means Srila Prabhupada is Guru (Diksa/Siksa) and he expect his disciples to do the same. How can you not understand this? Srila Prabhupada said ''

Just like I have got many Godbrothers, they are all

acting

". At that time the Gaudiya Math did not have Ritvik acharyas. They were acharyas giving diksa and siksa. So Acting does not mean Ritvik Acharya. Srila Prabhupada even confirmed it by saying "

they are being trained to

become future spiritual masters

". Spiritual Master means giving diksa and siksa, not Ritvik. Very clear statement and it seems you have juggled Srila Prabhupada's quotes.

 

Some months back you posted the following:

•  

  • Srila Prabhupada's Lecture, December 10, 1976 , Hyderabad:
    
    
    "So we got this information from His Divine Grace Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura, and that knowledge is still going on. You are receiving through his servant. And in future the same knowledge will go to your students. This is called parampara system. Evam parampara prap... It is not that you have become a student and you'll remain student. No. One day you shall become also guru and make more students, more students, more. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission, not that perpetually... Yes, one should remain perpetually a student, but he has to act as guru. That is the mission of Caitanya Mahaprabhu."
  Note again the word "
  ACT as guru
  ". Refer to "
  Diksa Given to Madhyama-adhikari is Not a Formality
  ".

   

  Officiating (Ritvik Acarya) on behalf of Srila Prabhupada

Word jugglery and misinterpretation of Srila Prabhupada's quote once again. Srila Prabhupada said, "You are receiving through his servant. And in future the same knowledge will go to your students". "Your students" means disciples of the future Spiritual Masters, just like Srila Prabhupada received his knowledge from Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. This is call parampara system. The Ritvik system kills this parampara system. Note that Srila Prabhupada also said this: "One day you shall become also guru and make more students, more students, more". Make more students means Diksa and Siksa. The word "Act" does not mean ritvik, there is no mention in all Vedic scriptures about Ritviktism. If Srila Prabhupada wanted his disciples to understand he would have elaborated the word "Ritvik" but he did not, he simply says Guru this, Guru that, and make disciples, very simple notion exploded, misinterpreted by Ritviks.

 

Why not refute the two postings I gave? You have yet to do so. You have no right to judge others. Look at your own position first. Stop insulting and committing Vaishnava aparadha. Just Glorify Srila Prabhupada and Chant Hare Krsna. Krishna will give you the intelligence to understand what is Guru and what is disciple. I pleaded and cried to Srila Prabhupada and by his mercy now I understand what is Guru and disciple. Commiting Vaishnava aparadha will only lead to your downfall, A plead to Ritviks, just Glorify Srila Prabhupada and chant Hare Krsna, don't spend your entire life criticizing and insulting other Vaishnavas.