Uddhava Gita discussion (UG only please)

[yogesh]

Thesitji I have started reading Canto 11 From Chapter 7 and have read till chapter 9

 

I am totaly blown away. Wow The narrations of the Avadut/Wise Brahmana to King Yadu is certainly something I have to ponder about.

 

I am now contemplating If maybe I am over-endeavouring for Material comfort by studying MBA. Maybe I should just give it up and just be satisfied with my job and not to over endeavour. I should just be happy with what the Lord gives me. Fortunately I have an elder brother who can look after my aging parents.

 

I am also seriously contemplating giving up the notion/idea of marriage (Grihast stage) and just live my life by working and eventually reitiring from the material life and as per instruction of the wise Brahmana and visit and take association of the various brahmanas (those who are living their lives desiring only to serve the Lord) in the holy places in Bharat (India) and staying unnoticed.

 

Live by begging and using my belly as the only storage space for food. Fasting from food is no problem for me. At the moment I eat only once a day and have some fruits in the morning.

 

But I also have to be carefull of false renunciation which can lead to frustrations and eventually fall down.

 

Just some of my thoughts and contemplations after reading the first 2 chapters.

 

Wow what a liberating feeling just thinking of giving up material hankerings/desires and only have a single desire i.e. to surrender myself to the Lord. SOmething like shaving the head of all the hair which represents all kinds of desires and leave only a tuft of hair (Sikha) representing the one desire.

 

Maybe I sound like a sentimentalist selfish neophyte fool in need of a guru to set me right.

I will continue to read these nectarian words spoken by the Lord.

 

Hare Krsna/Krishna

 

Jay Sirla Prabhupada

[indulekhadasi]

I love the story of Pingala in the second chapter. This story is also in the Bhagavatam.

 

Ever since I have heard Karanamrita dd sing "Pingala uvaca" I have been into that story.

 

At the temple we were recently playing Antyakshari and when it came to "pa" I grabbed the microphone and I almost shouted "Pingala uvaca"... my group was grateful and they said if I hadn't done that they would be lost because we had already used up all the verses and songs we could think of that started with the syllable "pa".

[theist]

Who was Pingala Indulekhadasi? What lesson did the avadhuta learn from her?

[indulekhadasi]

Pingala was a prostitute. One day she stood outside waiting for customers to enjoy her but no one came. In her disappointment, Pingala developed disgust for her material desires and became a devotee of the Lord.

 

The lesson that the avadhuta learned was that material desires are the cause of distress. Therefore we should only have spiritual desires.

 

Ahh...feeling feverish now. I think I better go and take some rest.

It was really hard doing my rounds this morning. It was about 3 o'clock and I felt feverish while chanting my rounds. My rounds were of a very poor quality today. There is so much nectar in chanting and I missed out, especially so today. I hate it when I am sick it takes away from my spiritual life.

[theist]

Translation UG 1.20

 

O Uddhava, the self s the foremost spiritual master of the human beings because the self can attain supreme auspiciousness on the strength of his direct and indirect perceptions.

Purport by Bhaktisiddhanta

 

The conditioned state can never create inauspiciousness to those who are self realized. Therefore, self-realized souls accept the Supersoul as their spiritual master, without being entangled in the material conception of life. Such self-realized liberated souls, though living in this world, actually attain auspiciousness by using the two kinds of evidence - direct and indirect evidence.

[indulekhadasi]

 

Translation UG 1.20

 

O Uddhava, the self s the foremost spiritual master of the human beings because the self can attain supreme auspiciousness on the strength of his direct and indirect perceptions.

 

Purport by Bhaktisiddhanta

 

The conditioned state can never create inauspiciousness to those who are self realized. Therefore, self-realized souls accept the Supersoul as their spiritual master, without being entangled in the material conception of life. Such self-realized liberated souls, though living in this world, actually attain auspiciousness by using the two kinds of evidence - direct and indirect evidence.

 

You can learn more about the types of evidences in Laghu Bhagavatamrita. Please try to check it out whenever you have the chance.

[theist]

 

You can learn more about the types of evidences in Laghu Bhagavatamrita. Please try to check it out whenever you have the chance.

 

I don't know that scripture. Who wrote it?

 

What is your opinion of UG 1.20 and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's commentary Indulekhadasi?

[indulekhadasi]

 

I don't know that scripture. Who wrote it?

 

What is your opinion of UG 1.20 and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's commentary Indulekhadasi?

 

Srila Rupa Goswami Prabhupada wrote it. It basically a summary study of Brhad Bhagavatamrita written by Srila Sanatana Goswami.

 

Laghu Bhagavatamrita immediately came to mind when I read Srila Bhaktisiddhanta's commentary to this verse because he talked about direct and indirect evidences. I was in Kolkata a few months ago reading Laghu Bhagavatamrita and I remember reading about those evidences and the importance level of each type.

[theist]

Thanks.

 

I like the idea of one's primary focus being directed to the Lord within as Guru.

[theist]

 

Even though it is reflected in various objects,the sun is never divided, nor does it have anything to do with it's reflections. Only dull-headed persons would consider the sun in this way. Similarily, although the soul is reflected through innumerable material bodies, it remains undivided and nonmaterial. UG 1.51

 

We have been the dull-headed persons spoken of here for time immemorial. Just in this life I have been reflected through various bodies from fetus to child to young man to aging man and have mistaken them all to be myself. What to speak of all the bodies I have worn in the past.

[theist]

The verses from sastra are here for us to take in as deeply as we can. So often I just read them and go on to the next or memeorize them to repeat like a parrot.

 

But when I take the time and just try to contemplate a verse I get so much more.

 

In the following verse I found it wonderful to try to see it from the sun's pont of view. Visuallizing my own image being reflected in all these separate pots of water in a row. While seeing an unlimited number of pots I looked in individual pots one at a time. These pots represented my past births.

 

From the pots perspective I as the reflection appeared to be bound up and trapped. From the sun's perspective I felt an incredible sense of freedom.

 

 

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Even though it is reflected in various objects,the sun is never divided, nor does it have anything to do with it's reflections. Only dull-headed persons would consider the sun in this way. Similarily, although the soul is reflected through innumerable material bodies, it remains undivided and nonmaterial. UG 1.51 </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote -->

[theist]

 

The mind can be controlled when it is fixed on the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Having achieved a stable situation, the mind becomes free from polluted desires to execute material activities; thus as the mode of goodness increases in strength, one can completely give up the modes of passion and ignorance, and gradually one transcends even the material mode of goodness. When the mind is freed from the fuel of the modes of nature, the fire of material existence is extinguished. Then one achieves the transcendental platform of direct relationship with the object of his meditation, the Supreme Lord. UG 3.12 (SB 11.9.12)

When I hear material existence compared to fire I sometimes think of the Christians saying that unless one accepts salvation from Jesus they will be cast into the lake of fire which burns forever.

 

This is true in that unless one accepts the Way and the Truth and the Life of Bhakti one is sure to be cast into the lake of fire. But what is that lake composed of they do not know.

 

We know from verses like this one that this material fire is composed of material desires which are induced under the three modes of nature and so to be "saved" we must become transcendental to the influence of the three modes.

 

This will never make sense to our Christian or Islamic friends until they understand reincarnation and they will never understand reincarnation until they understand they are not the body.

 

 

Even those who attain sayuja mukti eventually cast themselves back into this burning lake from the brahmajyoti so even more than understanding reincarnation and the fact that the lake of fire is composed of material desires is not sufficient. One must come to the point of realizing the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

Suddha-bhakti is the only real salvation from the blazing fire of material desires.

 

 

 

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[indulekhadasi]

 

When I hear material existence compared to fire I sometimes think of the Christians saying that unless one accepts salvation from Jesus they will be cast into the lake of fire which burns forever.

 

This is true in that unless one accepts the Way and the Truth and the Life of Bhakti one is sure to be cast into the lake of fire. But what is that lake composed of they do not know.

 

We know from verses like this one that this material fire is composed of material desires which are induced under the three modes of nature and so to be "saved" we must become transcendental to the influence of the three modes.

 

This will never make sense to our Christian or Islamic friends until they understand reincarnation and they will never understand reincarnation until they understand they are not the body.

 

 

Even those who attain sayuja mukti eventually cast themselves back into this burning lake from the brahmajyoti so even more than understanding reincarnation and the fact that the lake of fire is composed of material desires is not sufficient. One must come to the point of realizing the Supreme Personality of Godhead.

 

Suddha-bhakti is the only real salvation.

 

Yes! Our prayer should be that, "Oh Lord, I don't care where I will have to take birth in my next life. My only desire is that in that life I will never forget your lotus feet."

I hope one day I can tell Krishna that without hesitation. For people like me liberation sounds a lot better. Oh Krishna! Please help me remove my desire for liberation!

[theist]

 

Yes! Our prayer should be that, "Oh Lord, I don't care where I will have to take birth in my next life. My only desire is that in that life I will never forget your lotus feet."

I hope one day I can tell Krishna that without hesitation. For people like me liberation sounds a lot better. Oh Krishna! Please help me remove my desire for liberation!

 

Me too. I am only out for my own salvation at this point. By Prabhupada's grace we have seen the flaw in simple merging with the Brahman and must seek higher ground. This is where the real change of heart comes in. I can't even pray as you indicated sincerely so I am truly helpless in this situation. I don't see a way past this impasse. I guess this is where Causeless mercy must enter in.

 

The purified devotee is the repository of this causeless mercy.

[theist]

 

TRANSLATION SB 11.9.25 (UG 3.25)

The material body is also my spiritual master because it teaches me detachment. Being subject to creation and destruction, it always comes to a painful end. Thus, although using my body to acquire knowledge, I always remember that it will ultimately be consumed by others, and remaining detached, I move about this world.

 

 

Through intelligence we can see the futility of being attached tothis body and any of it's paraphenelia. So accepting the inevitable why not die to it now and remain detached?

[indulekhadasi]

 

Through intelligence we can see the futility of being attached tothis body and any of it's paraphenelia. So accepting the inevitable why not die to it now and remain detached?

 

These words remind me of Vasudeva's wise words about death, spoken to Kamsa. Vasudeva was speaking these words for our benefit. Unfortunately people like me are just a different version of Kamsa, we just want to enjoy through our senses without heeding the urgent warning of saintly people like Vasudeva.

[theist]

 

TRANSLATION

In a bamboo forest the wind sometimes rubs the bamboo stalks together, and such friction generates a blazing fire that consumes the very source of its birth, the bamboo forest. Thus, the fire is automatically calmed by its own action. Similarly, by the competition and interaction of the material modes of nature, the subtle and gross material bodies are generated. If one uses his mind and body to cultivate knowledge, then such enlightenment destroys the influence of the modes of nature that generated one's body. Thus, like the fire, the body and mind are pacified by their own actions in destroying the source of their birth. SB 11.13.7

Couples nicely with the previous posted verse.

 

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> TRANSLATION SB 11.9.25 (UG 3.25)

The material body is also my spiritual master because it teaches me detachment. Being subject to creation and destruction, it always comes to a painful end. Thus, although using my body to acquire knowledge, I always remember that it will ultimately be consumed by others, and remaining detached, I move about this world. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> This human form is a curse if we want to use it to enjoy matter. On the other hand it is a great blessing if we want to use it to acquire knowledge and to engage in sadhana bhakti.

[indulekhadasi]

We need to follow in the footsteps of Maharaja Ambarish. I remember when I was young singing: Maharaja Ambarish was a very great king....because he was a pure devotee...he used all his senses in the service of the lord...because he was a pure devotee. Good old memories full of inspiration!