Svayambhuva Manu

[Rishi_L]

According to the Vedic literature, the first manvantara of Svayambhuva Manu is supposed to have existed approximately 2 BILLION Earth years ago! The implication of this is that human beings supposedly existed on this planet approximately 2 billion years ago. Now, I take a neutral approach on this issue. I neither believe it nor disbelieve it. Does anyone know if the human beings that supposedly existed during the time of Svayambhuva Manu were extradimensional? I know that the puranas describe lands apparently on this Earth that are inaccessible to us, such as Plaksadvipa, Salmalidvipa, Kushadvipa, Krounchadvipa, Shakadvipa and Pushkaradvipa. Humans inhabit each of these lands. I suppose that the main problem I have in believing that anatomically modern humans (much like ourselves) dwelled on Earth, in gross physical bodies, is that there was apparently not as much oxygen back then in our planet's atmosphere as there is now. So how would anatomically modern humans be able to breathe during those times? Very soon afterwards though, the Oxygen Catastrophe occurred which provided more oxygen in our planet's atmosphere and killed off many of the anaerobic organisms supposedly flourishing during that time in the distant past. Thanks for reading this.

[sreeram]

Puranas should be written by someone. I mean human being. There may be exaggerations to some extend. So you can not tell these figures are really true. Technically speaking life before 2 billion years are not possible.

[indulekhadasi]

But science is also very faulty.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

According to the Puranas the world has existed for billions of years and life has existed from the beginning. The presence of that life on earth is constantly going through cycles of manifestation and extinction through "pralayas", cyclic periods of cosmic destruction. These periods of destruction occur in varying degrees at the following times:

 

1) Change of each yuga (minor pralaya)

2) Change of chatur-yuga (larger pralaya)

3) End of Brahma's day (1,000 chatur yugas), massive pralaya

4) End of the Brahma's life and destruction of the universe

 

There are other periods of destruction as well.

[shvu]

 

But science is also very faulty.

 

Will you accept the world map released by national geographic as correct or will you accept the description of the earth in the Bhagavatam as a set of concentric circles of land and water?

 

Yes, science may perhaps be perceived as faulty and imperfect in some ways, but it is still the best tool we have for material knowledge.

 

Puranas by their content are religious compendiums and are not meant to provide us with knowledge of geography, paleontology and medicine. Certainly not in disagreement with the findings of modern science.

 

Cheers

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

Will you accept the world map released by national geographic as correct or will you accept the description of the earth in the Bhagavatam as a set of concentric circles of land and water?

 

Yes, science may perhaps be perceived as faulty and imperfect in some ways, but it is still the best tool we have for material knowledge.

 

Puranas by their content are religious compendiums and are not meant to provide us with knowledge of geography, paleontology and medicine. Certainly not in disagreement with the findings of modern science.

 

For me, the work of Sadaputa dasa (Richard L. Thompson) on Bhagavata cosmology is, to date, the standard that serious students of this topic ought to use in comprehending the purpose behind Sri Sukadeva's inclusion of the fifth canto stuff in his instructions and narrations to King Parikshit. The concentric circles do not necessarily relate to what Vyasa Maha-Muni and His contemporaries thought they were walking and living on. Thompson, for those who don't know, has a Ph.D in Mathematics from Cornell University (with specialisation in Probability Theory and Statistical Mechanics), and has also conducted research in evolutionary biology and quantum theory at Cambridge University in the U.K. and at the State University of New York at Binghamton, in addition to having worked on a NASA-funded project on satellite remote sensing. He therefore, has no lessons to learn from Shvu with regard to the prevailing scientific paradigms and modern rational thinking.

 

Apart from his academic credentials, the man and his team of devotee-researchers at Bhaktivedanta Institute Alachua in Florida have spent some three decades studying Vedic/Puranic astronomy and cosmology and has come up with two books and several papers on the same. For a detailed and thorough expose of this subject, I would invite anyone interested to consult his works such as "Vedic Cosmography and Astronomy" and especially "Mysteries of the Sacred Universe". Through an attentive examination of these books, which combine both the devotional and scholarly methodologies in an interesting way, any open-minded and objective reader would probably emerge with a new-found respect for the cosmological material contained in the ancient texts of India.

[Jahnava Nitai Das]

 

Will you accept the world map released by national geographic as correct or will you accept the description of the earth in the Bhagavatam as a set of concentric circles of land and water?

 

 

I don't see them as contradictory. What we generally interact with is the world as described by National Geographic. The description of the universe in the Bhagavatam is a higher world view which needs to be interpretted and understood from another angle of vision.

[Rishi_L]

 

According to the Puranas the world has existed for billions of years and life has existed from the beginning. The presence of that life on earth is constantly going through cycles of manifestation and extinction through "pralayas", cyclic periods of cosmic destruction. These periods of destruction occur in varying degrees at the following times:

 

1) Change of each yuga (minor pralaya)

2) Change of chatur-yuga (larger pralaya)

3) End of Brahma's day (1,000 chatur yugas), massive pralaya

4) End of the Brahma's life and destruction of the universe

 

There are other periods of destruction as well.

 

One of the minor periods of destruction is called 'laya' in Sanskrit, but I don't know when the layas (minor terrestrial cataclysms) occur. Is it at the end of a chatur-yuga or a manvantar?

[Rishi_L]

 

Puranas by their content are religious compendiums and are not meant to provide us with knowledge of geography, paleontology and medicine. Certainly not in disagreement with the findings of modern science.

 

There is a considerable amount of agreement between the geographical descriptions provided in the puranic literature and with the findings of modern science. For example, through science we are taught that the oceans of this planet have a high salt content. The Puranas agree, saying that Jambudvipa is surrounded by an ocean of salty water. But the Puranas also describe other regions on this planet COMPLETELY beyond the reach of our sensory perception. These other regions are called Plaksadvipa, Salmalidvipa, Kushadvipa, Krounchadvipa, Shakadvipa and Pushkaradvipa. They are each surrounded by oceans of sugarcane juice, wine, ghee, curd, milk and sweet water respectively. If our senses were more acute, we would be able to perceive these higher-dimensional regions.

[bhaktajan]

Commercial Airlines Fly routes that stay in the northern hemisphere, navagating via the north star [Dhruva-loka].

 

Flying directly accross and over the north and south pole is not do-able [think, 'Northern-Lights' -- electrical instrumentation would be impeded]

 

Look-up the famous events of the Pilot, 'Capt. Byrd's flights over the north pole'

 

The next ring beyond our saltwater starts at the center of the south pole [a strange electro-magnatic region, what to meantion the sub-freezing inhospitable element(s)].

 

The north represents the means to navagate the globe** by 'magnetic compass' --all circumnavagating is like a person repelling [tethered by a rope] on a domed roof tied to the pinnicle and mostly stay away from the base of the dome since alsmost all land masses are above/near the equator.

 

There is an enigmatic reference in the 5th canto:

"Bhu-loka" is a planet [earth] revolving around the north star/pole axis.

"Bhu-mandala" [terrestrial platform atop the garbho-waters of the Brahmanda] is at the base of Mt Sumeru [Mt Sumeru is 800,000 miles highand has a surface of polished gold which reflects the orbiting Sun's Glow]. How to reconcil these two "Bhu" Lands?

 

Keep in mind that the Earth planet has asurface circumference of approx 24,000 Miles with many mountain ranges that have never been topographically surveyed--and which aeroplanes also avoid flying over due to eletromagnetic impedence.

 

High altitude flying allows for less fuel due to less 'drag', and, more simply the glide-factor: descending to arrival points from a high point requires less horizontal flying.

 

Why is there no place where the sun shines year round?

 

Yes, in the artic there are 6 months of Light and 6 months of darkness [this is due to the Sun revolving behind Sumeru, yet we still get our 24 hr day-cycle via the golden surface of the 'Land-of-gold' which exist far beyong the last ring of oceans and slopes up to the top of the outer-most ring of bhu-mandala: the "Aloka-loka Mountains" which are as high as Dhruva-loka] and beyond said mountains are the endarkened waters of the Garbho-ocean.

 

The celestrial planets all circumambulate clock-wise the abosolute north-south axis from Sumeru to Dhruvaloka to the top of Brahma's palace steeple. The sun circumambulates counter-clock-wise. This dual rotation is seen from above by the Devas' naked eye. Also seen like-wise is the planets below Dhurva-loka, which, clustered together seen from afar [think milyway en toto] appear as a dolphin, nose down and tip of tail up touching Dhurva-loka going clock-wise.

 

..................................................................................

This is what I have gathered by my own study of the 5th canto by Srila Prabhupada.

 

ys,

Bhaktajan

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

There is a considerable amount of agreement between the geographical descriptions provided in the puranic literature and with the findings of modern science. For example, through science we are taught that the oceans of this planet have a high salt content. The Puranas agree, saying that Jambudvipa is surrounded by an ocean of salty water. But the Puranas also describe other regions on this planet COMPLETELY beyond the reach of our sensory perception. These other regions are called Plaksadvipa, Salmalidvipa, Kushadvipa, Krounchadvipa, Shakadvipa and Pushkaradvipa. They are each surrounded by oceans of sugarcane juice, wine, ghee, curd, milk and sweet water respectively. If our senses were more acute, we would be able to perceive these higher-dimensional regions.

 

Indeed, and Sadaputa demonstrates such and much, much more in his rigorous studies cited above. Check them out if you're interested.

 

Radhe Radhe

[Rishi_L]

 

Indeed, and Sadaputa demonstrates such and much, much more in his rigorous studies cited above. Check them out if you're interested.

 

Radhe Radhe

 

I've heard about Sadaputa Das'/Richard L. Thompson's books "Vedic Cosmography & Astronomy" and "Mysteries Of The Sacred Universe", but I've unfortunately never had the pleasure of reading it. But I'd certainly love to order them on the internet and read those books for myself one day. One book I HAVE read (and absolutely LOVED!) is The Hidden History Of The Human Race by Drutakarma Das/Michael A. Cremo and Sadaputa Das/Richard L. Thompson. It's a condensed edition of their classic book Forbidden Archaeology and for me to say that I found it utterly RIVETING is a wild understatement! Man, when I first read that book, I honestly didn't move my eyes away from it for HOURS!

[yogesh]

"These other regions are called Plaksadvipa, Salmalidvipa, Kushadvipa, Krounchadvipa, Shakadvipa and Pushkaradvipa. They are each surrounded by oceans of sugarcane juice, wine, ghee, curd, milk and sweet water respectively. If our senses were more acute, we would be able to perceive these higher-dimensional regions."

 

It is interesting when you mention these various oceans because I remember reading in Scientific America mag a few years ago that Astrologist/Astro Physicist Used Infra Red Satelight and did a Scan on distant Galaxy and found pockets of Ethanol or Methanol which is alcohol or wine.

 

So I will not discard Bhagwatam as "non-scientific" just because we do not have the equipment/tools to measure the finer elements in the Universe.

 

Hare Krsna/Krishna

 

Jay Sirla Prabhupada