What's the purpose of Maya to delude human with illusion?

[koolhead]

I have read everywhere that maya deludes our mind and to overcome it we have to give up desires.

Only then we can obtain god.

 

I know the effect of Maya but whats the cause? If god loves us and we love god, then why is Maya created??

 

If uniting with god is our goal, then why are we obstructed by maya?

 

I searched everywhere. I found thousands of ways to overcome maya and how to unite with god but not a single logical explanation for why the maya is here at the first place.

[Beggar]

In his short essay on the early LP Krishna consciousness, Srila

Prabhupada says:

"The material atmosphere, in which we are now living, is called maya, or illusion. Maya means "that which is not". And what is this illusion? The illusion is that we are all trying to be lords of

material nature, while actually we are under the grip of her stringent laws....This illusory struggle against material nature can be stopped at once by revival of our eternal Krsna consciousness.

"Hare Krsna Hare Krsna Krsna Krsna Hare Hare Hare Rama Hare Rama Rama Rama Hare Hare is the transcendental process for reviving this original, pure consciousness. By chanting this transcendental vibration, we can cleanse away all misgivings within our hearts. The basic principle of all such misgivings is the false consciousness that I am the lord of all I survey.

"Krsna consciousness is not an artificial imposition on the mind. This consciousness is the original, natural energy of the living entity. When we hear this transcendental vibration, this consciousness is revived. This simplest meditation is recommended for this age. By practical experience also, one can perceive that by chanting this maha-mantra, or the Great Chanting for Deliverance, once can at once feel a transcendental ecstacy coming through from the spiritual stratum...."

[Nrsinghadev]

Vrajanatha: Prabhu, I understand that this marginal position is

situated in tatastha-svabhava, or junction, of the spiritual and

material worlds. Why is it that some jivas go from there to the

material world, while others go to the spiritual world?

 

Babaji: Krsna’s qualities are also present in the jivas, but only in a

minute quantity. Krsna is supremely independent, so the desire to

be independent is eternally present in the jivas as well. When the

jiva uses his independence correctly, he remains disposed towards

Krsna, but when he misuses it, he becomes vimukha (indifferent) to

Him. It is just this indifference that gives rise to the desire in the

jiva’s heart to enjoy maya. Because of the desire to enjoy maya, he

develops the false ego that he can enjoy material sense gratification,

and then the five types of ignorance – tamas (not knowing anything about the spirit soul), moha (the illusion of the bodily concept of life), maha-moha (madness for material enjoyment), tamisra (forgetfulness of one’s constitutional position due to anger or envy) and andha-tamisra (considering death to be the ultimate

end) – cover his pure, atomic nature. Our liberation or subjugation

simply depends on whether we use our minute independence

properly, or misuse it.

 

Vrajanatha: Krsna is karunamaya (full of mercy), so why did He make

the jiva so weak that he became entangled in maya?

 

Babaji: It is true that Krsna is karunamaya, overflowing with mercy,

however, He is also lilamaya, overflowing with desire to perform

pastimes. Desiring various pastimes to be enacted in different situations,

Sri Krsna made the jiva’s eligable for all conditions, from

the marginal state to the highest state of mahabhava. And to facilitate

the jiva’s progressing practically and steadfastly towards

becoming qualified for Krsna’s service, He has also created the

lower levels of material existence, beginning from the lowest inert

matter up to ahankara, which are the cause of unlimited obstruction

in attaining paramananda. Having fallen from their constitutional

position, the jivas who are entangled in maya are indifferent

to Krsna and engrossed in personal sense gratification.

However, Sri Krsna is the reservoir of mercy. The more the jiva

becomes fallen, the more Krsna provides him with opportunities

to attain the highest spiritual perfection. He brings this about by

appearing before him along with His spiritual dhama and His eternal

associates. Those jivas who take advantage of this merciful

opportunity and sincerely endeavor to attain the higher position

gradually reach the spiritual world and attain a state similar to

that of Sri Hari’s eternal associates.

 

Vrajanatha: Why must the jivas suffer for the sake of Bhagavan’s

pastimes?

 

Babaji: The jivas possess some independence. This is actually a

sign of Bhagavan’s special mercy upon them. Inert objects are very

insignificant and worthless because they have no such independent

desire. The jiva has attained sovereignty of the inert world

only because of his independent desire.

Misery and happiness are conditions of the mind. Thus what

we may consider misery is happiness for one engrossed in it. Since

all varieties of material sense gratification finally result in nothing

but misery, a materialistic person only achieves suffering.

When that suffering becomes excessive, it gives rise to a search

for happiness. From that desire, discrimination arises, and from

discrimination, the tendency for inquiry is born. As a result of this,

one attains sat-sanga (the association of saintly people), whereupon

sraddha develops. When sraddha is born, the jiva ascends to

a higher stage, namely the path of bhakti.

Gold is purified by heating and hammering. Being indifferent

to Krsna, the jiva has become impure through engaging in mundane

sense gratification. Therefore, he must be purified by being

beaten with the hammers of misery on the anvil of this material

world. By this process, the misery of the jivas averse to Krsna finally

culminates in happiness. Suffering is therefore just a sign of

Bhagavan’s mercy. That is why far sighted people see the suffering

of jivas in Krsna’s pastimes as auspicious, though the near sighted

can only see it as an inauspicious source of misery.

 

Vrajanatha: The jiva’s suffering in his conditioned state is ultimately

auspicious, but in the present state it is very painful. Since

Krsna is omnipotent, couldn’t He think of a less troublesome path?

 

Babaji: Krsna’s lila is extremely wonderful and of many varieties;

this is also one of them. If Bhagavan is independent and almighty,

and performs all kinds of pastimes, why should this be the only

pastime that He neglects? No pastime can be rejected if there is to

be full variety. Besides, the participants in other types of pastimes

also must accept some sort of suffering. Sri Krsna is the enjoyer

(purusa) and the active agent (karta). All ingredients and paraphernalia

are controlled by His desire and subject to His activities.It is natural to experience some suffering when one is controlled

by the desire of the agent. However, if that suffering brings pleasure

in the end, it is not true suffering. How can you call it suffering?

The so-called suffering that one undergoes in order to nourish

and support Krsna’s pastimes is actually a source of delight.

The jiva’s independent desire has caused him to abandon the pleasure

of serving Krsna, and instead accept suffering in maya. This

is the jiva’s fault, not Krsna’s.

[Inedible]

http://www.lyricsfreak.com/c/cinderella/dont+know+what+you+got_10066094.html

 

 

Don't know what you got till it's gone

Don't know what it is i did so wrong

Now i know what i got

It's just this song

And it ain't easy to get back

Takes so long

[bhaktajan]

I have read everywhere that maya deludes our mind

[Wrong. Your mind pimps maya. Maya is the feminine creative external energy emanating from God.

and to overcome it we have to give up desires.

[Wrong. Read Bhagavad-gita. Our desires must be dovetailed with pleasing <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags" /><st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>—this takes practice and then more practice—the exams are self-administered]

 

Only then we can obtain god.

[Wrong. We can obtain God's audience. Maybe then his entourage's backstage pass and onward till we gain God's direct attention of our selfless services]

I know the effect of Maya

[Wrong. You ain't seen nothing yet. So, become Krishna Conscious while you can—before you accidentally drop dead]

but whats the cause?

[sB 1.7.5 Due to this external energy, the living entity, although transcendental to the three modes of material nature, thinks of himself as a material product and thus undergoes the reactions of material miseries.

PURPORT

The root cause of suffering by the materialistic living beings is pointed out with remedial measures which are to be undertaken and also the ultimate perfection to be gained. All this is mentioned in this particular verse.

The living being is by constitution transcendental to material encagement, but he is now imprisoned by the external energy, and therefore he thinks himself one of the material products. And due to this unholy contact, the pure spiritual entity suffers material miseries under the modes of material nature.

The living entity misunderstands himself to be a material product. This means that the present perverted way of thinking, feeling and willing, under material conditions, is not natural for him. But he has his normal way of thinking, feeling and willing.

The living being in his original state is not without thinking, willing and feeling power. It is also confirmed in the Bhagavad-gita that the actual knowledge of the conditioned soul is now covered by nescience.

Thus the theory that a living being is absolute impersonal Brahman is refuted herein. This cannot be, because the living entity has his own way of thinking in his original unconditional state also.

The present conditional state is due to the influence of the external energy, which means that the illusory energy takes the initiative while the Supreme Lord is aloof.

The Lord does not desire that a living being be illusioned by external energy. The external energy is aware of this fact, but still she accepts a thankless task of keeping the forgotten soul under illusion by her bewildering influence.

The Lord does not interfere with the task of the illusory energy because such performances of the illusory energy are also necessary for reformation of the conditioned soul.

. . . the Supreme Lord descends from His kingdom upon the kingdom of illusory energy and personally gives relief in the form of the Bhagavad-gita, wherein He personally suggests that although the ways of illusory energy are very stiff to overcome,

. . . This surrendering process is the remedial measure for getting relief from the bewildering ways of the illusory energy. The surrendering process is completed by the influence of association. The Lord has suggested, therefore, that by the influence of the speeches of saintly persons who have actually realized the Supreme, men are engaged in His transcendental loving service.

The conditioned soul gets a taste for hearing about the Lord, and by such hearing only he is gradually elevated to the platform of respect, devotion and attachment for the Lord.

The whole thing is completed by the surrendering process.

. . .This means that the conditioned souls are being reclaimed by the Lord both ways, namely by the process of punishment by the external energy of the Lord, and by Himself as the spiritual master within and without.

Within the heart of every living being the Lord Himself as the Supersoul (Paramatma) becomes the spiritual master, and from without He becomes the spiritual master in the shape of scriptures, saints and the initiator spiritual master.

. . . Personal superintendence of the illusory energy is confirmed in the Vedas (the Kena Upanisad) in relation to the demigods’ controlling power. Herein also it is clearly stated that the living entity is controlled by the external energy in a personal capacity.

The living being thus subject to the control of external energy is differently situated. It is clear, however, from the present statement of Bhagavatam that the same external energy is situated in the inferior position before the Personality of Godhead, or the perfect being.

The perfect being, or the Lord, cannot be approached even by the illusory energy, who can only work on the living entities.

. . .Srimad-Bhagavatam is the summum bonum remedy for suffering humanity in the clutches of maya. Srila Vyasadeva therefore first of all diagnosed the actual disease of the conditioned souls, i.e., their being illusioned by the external energy. He also saw the perfect Supreme Being, from whom illusory energy is far removed, though He saw both the diseased conditioned souls and also the cause of the disease. And the remedial measures are suggested in the next verse.

Both the Supreme Personality of Godhead and the living beings are undoubtedly qualitatively one, but the Lord is the controller of the illusory energy, whereas the living entity is controlled by the illusory energy. Thus the Lord and the living beings are simultaneously one and different.

Another point is distinct herein: that eternal relation between the Lord and the living being is transcendental, otherwise the Lord would not have taken the trouble to reclaim the conditioned souls from the clutches of maya. In the same way, the living entity is also required to revive his natural love and affection for the Lord, and that is the highest perfection of the living entity. Srimad-Bhagavatam treats the conditioned soul with an aim to that goal of life.]

If god loves us and we love god,

[if you knew what We loved then you'd be a <st1:Street w:st="on"><st1:address w:st="on">Madison Ave</st1:address></st1:Street> advertising wizard—but it's probably the other way around. We don't know what's best for us. Lawyers and doctors represent what's best for us even when they cheat a little with the fees]

then why is Maya created??

[Maya is also translated as Mercy — Bg4.6P . . . The word maya, or atma-maya, refers to the Lord’s causeless mercy, according to the Visva-kosa dictionary. ]

 

If uniting with god is our goal,

[Wrong. Re-unite with God's pastimes in heaven. Specificity allows for absolute ETA. The goal now, in the material world is to stop the repeating cycle of birth and death, which can only be achieved by Krishna Consciousness.]

then why are we obstructed by maya?

[Maya is the same energy that sustains the whole universe and your nightly breathing and beating heart. Maya allows you the free-will, self-determined independence to express your sense of free will (while also burning-up re-actions to long forgotten past actions too)]

I searched everywhere.

[if you have, why have you not quoted the Bhagavad-gita, Srimad-Bhagavatam, Mahabharata, Sri Isopanisad?????]

I found thousands of ways to overcome maya

[Wrong. There is only one way. What you've encountered are ways to soothe your temporal pains.]

and how to unite with god

[God is "Absolute". Absolute is conceived on the mundane in the following way: To build a house, of any size and design, we must first have an empty space to build in. This is an absolute rule of physics. 'No two things can occupy the same space'. The creation with all it's variegated "Relative" forms all occupy empty space which is considered absolute. The space is called Brahman.]

but not a single logical explanation for

[A.C. Bhaktivendata Swami presented the Bhagavad-gita "As-it-is" inorder to counter the bogus renderings of the multitudes of speculations that address the nature and mystery of life and the nature of the soul and the nature of Time, God as 'Controller' and the nature of material energy known as Maya-Prakriti.]

why the maya is here at the first place.

[sB 1.3.34 If the illusory energy subsides and the living entity becomes fully enriched with knowledge by the grace of the Lord, then he becomes at once enlightened with self-realization and thus becomes situated in his own glory.

Purport . . . Therefore by His grace the external energy, which is employed in illusioning those living beings who want to have it, subsides by the will of the Lord in terms of repentance and penance for the conditioned soul. And the very same energy then acts to help the purified living being make progress on the path of self-realization. The example of electrical energy is very appropriate in this connection. The expert electrician can utilize the electrical energy for both heating and cooling by adjustment only. Similarly, the external energy, which now bewilders the living being into continuation of birth and death, is turned into internal potency by the will of the Lord to lead the living being to eternal life. When a living being is thus graced by the Lord, he is placed in his proper constitutional position to enjoy eternal spiritual life.]

…………………………………………………………………………………………

Just trying to be of assistance,

Bhaktajan

[shvu]

 

I have read everywhere that maya deludes our mind and to overcome it we have to give up desires.

Only then we can obtain god.

 

I know the effect of Maya but whats the cause? If god loves us and we love god, then why is Maya created??

 

If uniting with god is our goal, then why are we obstructed by maya?

 

I searched everywhere. I found thousands of ways to overcome maya and how to unite with god but not a single logical explanation for why the maya is here at the first place.

 

The same sources which tell us about Maya tell us Maya is without beginning.

 

As Maya is without beginning just like God and the soul, the question of why it exists is invalid. Or in other words, the question why cannot be asked about a beginningless entity.

 

Cheers

[Beggar]

__________________

2/19/41 --- "My dear Lord, one who earnestly waits for You to bestow Your causeless mercy upon him, all the while patiently suffering the reactions of his past misdeeds and offering You respectful obeisance’s with his heart, words and body, is surely eligible for devotion, for it has become his rightful claim". SB 10.14.8

 

:deal:Monsieur bhaktajan, Why do you persist to attempt to drive me insane with this picture!

Monsieur bhaktajan, pourquoi vous persistez pour essayer de me conduire aliéné avec cette image !

[koolhead]

I often have lucid dreams, where i feel everything as real but I know that its only a dream.....

 

That was my dream world... To test how concrete it was, I took some sands in my hand and observed it, i could see each particles of sand as I would see in reality...I felt its warmth, they appeared real...But i knew it was a dream.. (This is a great experience that i ever had)

 

Now before you go on reading what i feel, you must re-analyse your own dreams too. I know lucid dreaming is not common but we all dream. you might have had experience when you find youself in a problem and wish it to turn out to a dream..and poppp...you wake up from your dream and find yourseld on your bed and say: 'wosh, that was all a dream'.

The point to note here is not that you dreamed, but that you felt your dream as real. Keep this feeling because you will need it as you read below.

 

 

 

Going back to my lucid dream; two things are to be noted:

 

1>If i never realized that it was a dream, then i would have taken that world as real......because it felt real. It had dimensions.

 

2>If I would have tried to find the end/limit/concept of my that dream world (remember, i dont know its a dream).

 

Now i can analyze these two points:

 

1>I am sleeping in my bed, which is real. Now i am dreaming and i dont know that its a dream. I feel everything as if real. Now if my dream goes little longer and concrete, then I will create my own laws: Laws of physics, chemistry, nature etc and I will create my own concepts: Concepts of society, culture and most important my own concept of GOD......which are all just my own imagination and so unreal.

 

2>(a)Scientist nowdays, try to find the secret of our universe and its end. Now get back to my dream. It is there where I have my own universe. Everything is my own imagination which has got no end. So as i try to explore my dream world, i will keep on expanding my universe by imagining further and further. In simple words: there will be no end.

 

2>(b)We have a concept of god, a concept of world oder, a concept of life, a concept of yugas, maha yugas. Now get back to my dream and you will find that even i can have my own concepts of GOD and creation. In my dreams i can imagine (without knowing its unreal) saints and gods who speak my imagination with their mouth. As i keep on expanding my religious view, i will create concrete evidence to make my feel that god is there. In simple words: There is no GOD in my universe.

 

 

 

 

Now just think if a simple dream goes concrete and longer, then it can have such an impressing effect..... what if this world where we are living now is also an impressing effect of another dream. Then it means, there is no end of this universe and as we have evolved us further, we have created our own concepts of gods and their roles.

 

What i think is that, this dream is not of a single soul, but its a collective dream which has turned into very very concrete and longer.

 

yes, god exists. rama took birth, krishna took birth. Its true that everything happend but all this might by part of our collective dream, a grand illusion.

 

I have never satisfied myself with any concepts of god or creation. This is all illusion, not only this world where we live but the world where we think god lives.

 

Just aliging witha super soul does'nt make any sense.

Actually, the wheel of creation, yugas, mahayugas doesnt make any sense at all. Why should all this be created? why this keeps on going?

 

There is somthing else, that we can never imagine..... unless we wake up and find that everthing we experienced (materials and spirituality) was a dream.....REALITY IS REALLY DIFFERENT...

[Shakti-Fan]

 

2>(b)We have a concept of god, a concept of world oder, a concept of life, a concept of yugas, maha yugas. Now get back to my dream and you will find that even i can have my own concepts of GOD and creation. In my dreams i can imagine (without knowing its unreal) saints and gods who speak my imagination with their mouth. As i keep on expanding my religious view, i will create concrete evidence to make my feel that god is there. In simple words: There is no GOD in my universe...

 

yes, god exists. rama took birth, krishna took birth. Its true that everything happend but all this might by part of our collective dream, a grand illusion...

 

I have never satisfied myself with any concepts of god or creation. This is all illusion, not only this world where we live but the world where we think god lives.

 

Just aliging witha super soul does'nt make any sense.

Actually, the wheel of creation, yugas, mahayugas doesnt make any sense at all. Why should all this be created? why this keeps on going?

 

There is somthing else, that we can never imagine..... unless we wake up and find that everthing we experienced (materials and spirituality) was a dream.....REALITY IS REALLY DIFFERENT...

 

Looks like you haven't read post #3 presented by Nrsinghadev. The answers to your initial questions are all there.

[bhaktajan]

 

__________________

2/19/41 --- "My dear Lord, one who earnestly waits for You to bestow Your causeless mercy upon him, all the while patiently suffering the reactions of his past misdeeds and offering You respectful obeisance’s with his heart, words and body, is surely eligible for devotion, for it has become his rightful claim". SB 10.14.8

 

:deal:Monsieur bhaktajan, Why do you persist to attempt to drive me insane with this picture!

Monsieur bhaktajan, pourquoi vous persistez pour essayer de me conduire aliéné avec cette image !

 

 

Mon Garcon,

Never forget the Camaraderie of our lost, long forgotten, long departed, band of brothers, mon ami. Even when we elect to forget. -- [it is best in the lingua franka]. Bonsoir o Bonjoir?

[Beggar]

 

 

__________________

 

 

Marseille, lentement j'ai tourné, pouce par pouce, point par point...

pouce par pouce, point par point...pouce par pouce, point par point...

pouce par pouce, point par point...

pouce par pouce, point par point...pouce par pouce, point par point...pouce par pouce, point par point...

pouce par pouce, point par point...pouce par pouce, point par point...

pouce par pouce, point par point...

pouce par pouce, point par point...pouce par pouce, point par point...

 

 

 

Arrêt ! ! !

 

[Oneuser]

 

I often have lucid dreams, where i feel everything as real but I know that its only a dream.....

 

That was my dream world... To test how concrete it was, I took some sands in my hand and observed it, i could see each particles of sand as I would see in reality...I felt its warmth, they appeared real...But i knew it was a dream.. (This is a great experience that i ever had)

What exactly do you do to realize that you are dreaming?

 

 

 

-------------------------

 

What i think is that, this dream is not of a single soul, but its a collective dream which has turned into very very concrete and longer.

Did you ever had a conversation in your dreams with one person and the next day, in "real" normal day, you both know about conversation (or sth like this)?

[gHari]

Maya's goal is simply to provide the jivas with the satisfaction of being independent of God, and then showing the jivas that this is not their best interest.

 

In truth it is all Krsna's mercy, although some see it as the reward and punishment of mundane conditioning. But there is nothing mundane about it - it is God's energy, His external energy. It is only mundane if seen that way.

 

There is a fault, and God is helping us to correct it. If we are submissive and humble we will get through the lessons with less drama and excitement. The more obstinate we are, the more drastic must the measures be to effect the proper change of heart.

 

Stay conscious of God and learn to see that it is all good.

[koolhead]

 

Did you ever had a conversation in your dreams with one person and the next day, in "real" normal day, you both know about conversation (or sth like this)?

 

That i cant tell now.... only aafter i die...i mean after i wake up:sleep:

 

 

 

What exactly do you do to realize that you are dreaming?

 

I do meditaions... i dont have time in morning..so i do meditation before going to bed... i normally do meditation for one hour... i feel a kind of heat on my forehead,,, i feel as if my heart is beating inside my forehead...

 

i searched in internet about this and found that its called third eye..... i have never been able to go to trance... i dont have good concentration but this sensation on my forehead started 2-3 days after i started meditation...

 

acutally its not for activating third eye that i am doing meditation... but its opposite... i am using my third eye to meditate..

 

My life has not been going on track.... i am messed up with confusions... i saw everywhere darkness..... at this time i got one ray of hope as the form of third eye sensation.... i want to hold it so that i can unfold my life's destiny

 

leave it..... I usually get lucid dreaming after i do meditation and sleep... the day i do more meditation...much stronger lucid dreaming i get...

 

But i began dreaming lucid when i was 7 yrs old...i didnt do meditation at that time... But i think the cause for lucid dreaming is the level of ones logic understanding and impletation.. for eg. if you dream that the sky is red, then when you ask yourself in dream... that sky cant be red... the moment you do so... you realize that its your dream...

 

after you realize this... the whole world becomes your... whatever you wish becomes true.... if you wish to find ice creams around the corner...then you get it.... whatever you imagine becomes reality.... it doesnt last long... but its worth to experience

[Oneuser]

 

But i began dreaming lucid when i was 7 yrs old...i didnt do meditation at that time... But i think the cause for lucid dreaming is the level of ones logic understanding and impletation.. for eg. if you dream that the sky is red, then when you ask yourself in dream... that sky cant be red... the moment you do so... you realize that its your dream...

 

Why would you ask that?

Dreams are just so real, its not "strange" that sky is red. Thats how it is... (?!)

 

 

I had lucid dreams twice, it happened to me in the days when i was reading literature about lucid dreams.

Sometimes when i wake up i am asking myself- how couldnt i realize that i am dreaming when-...the sky was red (for example).

 

 

(about confusions: all the best)

[koolhead]

 

Why would you ask that?

Dreams are just so real, its not "strange" that sky is red. Thats how it is... (?!)

 

 

I think this happens when you are spiritually awake in your life in such a way that you can pick anything that is not logical, even in dreams.

 

Like in our real world, we are under illusion of material life. I guess the same situation is during dream.

 

So i guess, realizing illusion of dream may be a hint that if you try little hard you can also realize the illusion of the real world.