Can a Siksa Guru empower you for making disciples?

[Beggar]

 

Ditto that, Theist prabhu, just want to add one thing. What is a hommage.

Wikipedia: "Hommage is generally used in modern English to mean any public show of respect to someone to whom one feels indebted."

Now, it is a great deal to put some small hommage on the website of Srila Puri Maharaja's temple in Vienna, run by ex-ISKCONites, that Srila Prabhupada brought the Sankirtan movement to the West? Same what guests are telling, Prabhupada's name is not only banned on the website(www.radha-govinda.net), but also at their temple program. And those trying to point out lack of genuine Vaishnava etiquette, labled as aparadhis. What up? Also note how Prabhupada's go-raksha vision is immediately classified as mundane varnashram, as rejected by Caitanya Mahaprabhu.

 

Actually I've been waiting to see if anyone would catch this. The reason that Suchandra cannot support his claim is because the above argument [post #11] is in fact, the argument of the Babaji Class against Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur not a Gaudiya Math criticism of Srila B.V. Prabhupada. The Babajis say that since Srila Saraswati did not accept the diksa line coming through Vipin Vihari to Srila Bhaktivinonda Thakur and that since he and his followers do not give siddha pranali at the time of diksa then they are "cut off" and have no parampara. Maybe next Suchandra can accuse Prabhupada's godbrothers and their disciples of burning down the Reichtstadt or bombing Pearl Harbor, for that would be in keeping with his mood and his attention to detail.

[Shakti-Fan]

Srila Narayana Maharaja

(talking about a conversation with Prabhupada a day or two before he entered nitya lila)

He continued, “Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhänta Sarasvati Thäkura

Prabhupäda ordered all of us to preach in Europe and America.

That was his strong desire. His other desire was that we all work

together to preach. I didn’t waste a single moment. I tried my

best, and to some extent it has been successful.” His voice was

choked with emotion as he continued to speak: “If we can work

conjointly, then, as Sr Caitanya Mahäprabhu declared, this

sankirtana movement has great possibilities.”

Then he told me, “I want you to help take care of my

disciples. I want them to be good and qualified devotees. If they

come to you, please care for them.” Many of his disciples were

nearby, so he softly whispered in Bengali, “When I went to the

West, I caught so many monkeys in my net. Really, they are very

expert in quarreling among themselves like that. They are still

very young and untrained. So I request you that after my

departure you will help them in every respect.”

Of course Srila Prabhupada wanted all qualified persons both godbrothers and their disciples, who were actually well wishers to help his "monkeys".

The disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur had decided together, after their gurudeva entered nitya lila that none of them should use the "Prabhupada name". When Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami allowed his disciples to call him Prabhupada at first their was some friction over this. But later most maths accepted it for it was clear that he was the world preacher. But generally most maths refer to him as Swamiji or Swami Maharaja feeling that they cannot use the "Prabhupada name" but Srila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's disciples and grand disciples can do this.

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[Kulapavana]

Let me pay hommage to all the Vaisnava devotees of the Lord who can fulfill the desires of everyone, just like desire trees, and who are full of compassion for the fallen souls.

 

if you desire to feel superior because of your guru, a Vaishnava can fulfill even that material desire.

 

Lord Krsna used Srila Prabhupada just like He used his Godbrothers. Somewhat different missions, but the same quality of surrender. From my perspective Prabhupada opened the West to Gaudiya Vaishnavism but I am not sure whether his approach will be the one surviving the test of time and dominating western Vaishnavism hundreds of years from now.

[Beggar]

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja

(talking about a conversation with Prabhupada a day or two before he entered nitya lila)

Of course Srila Prabhupada wanted all qualified persons both godbrothers and their disciples, who were actually well wishers to help his "monkeys".

The disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur had decided together, after their gurudeva entered nitya lila that none of them should use the "Prabhupada name". When Srila Bhaktivedanta Swami allowed his disciples to call him Prabhupada at first their was some friction over this. But later most maths accepted it for it was clear that he was the world preacher. But generally most maths refer to him as Swamiji or Swami Maharaja feeling that they cannot use the "Prabhupada name" but Srila A.C Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada's disciples and grand disciples can do this.

 

This is the problem, these rascal maths have the audacity to see that their gurudevas and param gurudevas are "as good as God", saksad hari tvena samasta sastraih. They clearly do not recognize that Srila Prabhupada is the only way, the truth and the light and that nobody comes unto Krsna except through him. They have the audacity to believe that the guru parampara continues and they have no realization that Prabhupada is the guru for the next 10,000 years. They have no understanding that the conditioned souls are from Goloka and that we are just dreaming that we are here, in the material world. Furthermore they just don't get that cow protection is on the same level as Krsna prema. These are sure signs that they are asara or useless, whereas we are superior, we are saved and they are not. (poor souls). Plus we have been given the special benediction that we can just evoke Srila Prabhupada's name, proclaim our loyalty to him (If in ISKCON we can sign the loyaly oath) AND POOF - WE ARE SUPERIOR BECAUSE OUR GURU IS. Such an easy process, we are so fortunate!

[suchandra]

 

This is the problem, these rascal maths have the audacity to see that their gurudevas and param gurudevas are "as good as God", saksad hari tvena samasta sastraih. They clearly do not recognize that Srila Prabhupada is the only way, the truth and the light and that nobody comes unto Krsna except through him. They have the audacity to believe that the guru parampara continues and they have no realization that Prabhupada is the guru for the next 10,000 years. They have no understanding that the conditioned souls are from Goloka and that we are just dreaming that we are here, in the material world. Furthermore they just don't get that cow protection is on the same level as Krsna prema. These are sure signs that they are asara or useless, whereas we are superior, we are saved and they are not. (poor souls). Plus we have been given the special benediction that we can just evoke Srila Prabhupada's name, proclaim our loyalty to him (If in ISKCON we can sign the loyaly oath) AND POOF - WE ARE SUPERIOR BECAUSE OUR GURU IS. Such an easy process, we are so fortunate!

"Therefore there is no difference between śikṣā-guru and dīkṣā-guru because if he’s actually guru, he’ll not say anything which Kṛṣṇa has not spoken. Yāre dekha tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa [Cc. Madhya 7.128] So guru is that. Caitanya Mahāprabhu says, āmāra ājñāya guru hañā tāra’ ei deśa: [Cc. Madhya 7.128] “You become a guru.” And what is the function of the guru? Yāre dekha tāre kaha ‘kṛṣṇa’-upadeśa. That is there. You haven’t got to manufacture any instruction. Whatever is said in the Bhagavad-gītā, you say. You try to convince him with logic, with philosophy, with your knowledge, same thing, not philosophy. That is intelligence. And suppose Kṛṣṇa says, sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. Before that, Kṛṣṇa has described everything, why you should surrender to Kṛṣṇa. At last He says, “You surrender to Me.” So there is no difficulty. Immediately Kṛṣṇa does not say, “You surrender to Me.” But after describing everything— karma-yoga, jñāna-yoga, dhyāna-yoga, so many things, politics, sociology, religion, everything—at last He says that “This is the most confidential part. You surrender unto Me.”"

 

Room Conversation

with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

January 31, 1977, Bhubaneshwar

http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/770131rc.bhu.htm

[indulekhadasi]

 

This is a quote from my post above.

 

 

 

As you can see I am warning that because we are discussing About "high level personalities" such as you have named that this gossipy back and forth is especially dangerous. IOW we should take a respectful stance out of caution.

 

 

 

And that is the very theme I have stressed several times in this thread Gaurahari. Perhaps you are coming in to this conversation late. This is the point I have used to try and redirect this thread back to the original question about siksa gurus. Devotees are not monolithic and are at different levels. You can reread my posts if you care to.

 

I did not paint his SP Godbrothers with a single brush.

 

 

 

[theist]

Oh Gaurahari is your dad? I didn't know that. Too bad he doesn't have more time to join in. I am sure he would elevate the atmosphere around here and we all could use that.

 

ps I wasn't really afraid of your dad just of my own rough edges showing up in contrast to such polite behavior.

[suchandra]

 

As you can see I am warning that because we are discussing About "high level personalities" such as you have named that this gossipy back and forth is especially dangerous. IOW we should take a respectful stance out of caution.

 

This is surely a great gesture and sublime behaviour when you're an outsider and watching things from a save distance. When you're a disciple of a spiritual master you have to follow his guidelines and not that you say, no, I'm smart, I'll take a respectful stance, I don't get involved.

[Shakti-Fan]

"I am in due receipt of your letter dated September 3 1975, with the enclosed statement about Bon Maharaja. So I have now issued orders that all my disciples should avoid all of my Godbrothers. They should not have any dealings with them nor even correspondence, nor should they give them any of my books or should they purchase any of their books, neither should you visit any of their temples. Please avoid them."

(SPL to Visvakarma das, 9 Nov 1975)

 

Sripad Bhagavat Prabhu (ACBSP):

...Srila Prabhupada instructed myself and Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja to preach with his god brother Srila Bhaktivaibhava Puri Maharaja and I pointed out that in 1977 Srila Prabhupada established the Bhaktivedanta Swami Charity trust in his final days and that Srila Prabhupada named two of his Godbrothers as trustees, Srila Madhusudhana Maharaja and Srila Madhava Maharaja. Now this trust consists of his disciples and his god brothers. So are his disciples supposed to not co-operate with the god brothers on the trust with them based on this letter or does the fact that he made the trust obviously reverse his statement in this letter? After the document is finished Srila Prabhupada reads the list of names to the devotees along with the plans for refurbishing some of the Gaudiya Matha buildings. Does this sound like Srila Prabhupada wants us to not co-operate with his God brothers? He is spending the money from his society to rebuild Gaudiya Matha buildings! Is this in keeping with the mood of that letter from 1975. After he reads the list of names the following conversation occurs:

 

Prabhupada: How do you think the idea?

Jayapataka: All of your ideas, Srila Prabhupada, are perfect. I am not someone to offer opinion. But if you ask, I think that actually, especially the yoga-pitha, natha-mandira, that's a very dynamic idea, and in general it must do good.

Prabhupada: We want cooperation.

Tamala Krsna: No more non-cooperation

 

Sripad Bhagavat Prabhu (ACBSP):

...Srila Prabhupada says here in this conversation WE WANT CO-OPERATION! He wants Co-operation between whom? He wants co-operation between His godbrothers and his disciples that’s who! That is a direct instruction that counters the letter of 1975. Not only is he saying it but he is demonstrating it by his actions in making his disciples work together on a trust with His god brothers. This decision affects the whole society because he is using the society’s money that is being collected by His disciples from all over the world to pay for the refurbishing of the Gaudiya Matha buildings of His god brothers. Thus by implication he has all of His disciples co-operating with His god brothers. Srila Prabhupada is talking to Jayapataka, Tamal, and Bhavananda was also there, and later he gave a similar order to myself and Srila Gour Govinda Maharaja. Is Srila Prabhupada instructing that only we should co-operate with his god brothers and no other disciple should because of a letter 2 years earlier? Srila Prabhupada gave instructions to Srila Narayana Maharaja that ISKCON and the Gaudiya Matha should preach together I have given you the relevant quotes from the tape recording. He also instructs Srila Narayana Maharaja to instruct us about this co-operation. Is this not enough evidence for you? Your Spiritual Masters own voice saying “NOW WE SHOULD PREACH TOGETHER” AND “KINDLY INSTRUCT THEM ON THIS MATTER”.

[Beggar]

 

Wish this were true. Here we have a real huge propaganda machine going, the GM announcing, everything what Prabhupada set-up is destined to collapse. They actually believe all these desasters that happened in this part of the world can only happen when there's no link to the disciplic succession, things are cut off from the spiritual powerhouse so to speak. They actually say that the only explanation is that Prabhupada wasn't properly authorized. I find this quite offensive and these people going the wrong direction.

 

Again, this is the argument of the babaji class against Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur and his followers, both GM and ISKCON. It is not and never could be a criticism of Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON by GM because the same argument would apply to them. Suchandra, when you make a clear mistake, you need to acknowledge it, and then retract your statement.

[suchandra]

 

Again, this is the argument of the babaji class against Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur and his followers, both GM and ISKCON. It is not and never could be a criticism of Srila Prabhupada and ISKCON by GM because the same argument would apply to them. Suchandra, when you make a clear mistake, you need to acknowledge it, and then retract your statement.

No, looks like you are wrong and make mistakes, I didn't made this up, that's what visitors were saying when visiting your place.

 

27 February, 1972 Mayapur

 

My Dear Mohanananda,

 

I beg to acknowledge your letter undated and I am answering your questions as follows:

 

You inquire why, if the devotee is struggling very hard to be free of the clutches of Maya, then how can he not be interested in such liberation?

 

That is a contradiction. The devotee is not interested in liberation, but in serving; as such, the devotee is already liberated. So liberation is not very important business--it doesn't matter if he is liberated or nonliberated. The idea is that nobody should serve Krishna with motive, even up to liberation, he should serve for service sake.

 

Liberation from Maya means engaging himself in the service of the Lord. So one should strive to become a servant of the Supreme, and in that position he is automatically liberated and free from the clutches of Maya, so when it is said that one should strive to be free from the clutches of Maya, it is simply another way of saying one should strive to be a servant of the Lord, not that being free from Maya is the goal of striving, but that the serving is the goal of striving.

 

Liberation is the constitutional position of the living entity, and that constitutional position is that the Lord is great and that the living entity is subordinate & servant of the Lord. So one should try to extricate himself from the clutches of Maya in order to regain his healthy, normal condition as the servant of Krishna, not just to get himself liberated. But once in this service, he is liberated already. Try to understand.

 

Your second question, Isn't the fact that we say that one should give up the cultivation of knowledge in conflict with the first six chapters of Gita which deal with cultivation of knowledge?

 

The first six chapters of Bhagavad-gita, this knowledge is to understand Krishna. Other so-called cultivation of knowledge, as practiced by the Mayavadis and jnanis, means how to become one with the Supreme. That kind of cultivation of knowledge is prohibited. Cultivation of knowledge to understand Krishna as He is, that is called Bhakti. Generally mayavadi's mean by ``knowledge'' how to become one with the Lord. That is to be avoided.

 

Your third question, What is the explanation of split-personality.

 

Actually, there are not two personalities, there is only change of mind. Therefore, the mind has to be fixed up in Krishna, then there is no more extreme change in the mind from one personality to another. There is always only one personality, it is just that if the mind is very disturbed, it may change in extreme way; if such person is devotee; best remedy is to sit down very tightly and chant Hare Krishna very loudly and hear for the a long time until he feels himself one-minded and fixed on Krishna's Lotus Feet.

 

So far you being philosophically-minded, that I can see and appreciate, but in future I think you can ask any questions you may have in these matters to one of the Swamis or to your GBC man. I have given them the answers to all such questions, so they can help you.

 

I am an old man now, and my interests are turning to philosophy and translation. If you help me by relieving me from this administrative work, that will free me to give you so many more fine books from Vedic literature and from our own devotional line.

 

So kindly assist me in this way. Actually, if you simply serve in a surrendered attitude, and go on chanting regularly, the answers to everything will come out automatically: "To those who are constantly devoted and worship Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me.'' (X, 10).

 

You say that your wife is an emotional sentimentalist, and that this is causing you some anxiety. But you have taken her as your wife, and by our Vedic standards you are responsible for her spiritual advancement, so you must make the attempt to assist her in becoming Krishna Conscious very seriously, that is your responsibility.

 

source: http://krisna.hu/galeria/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=3&pos=0

 

If, however, after much trying and serious attempts you are still unable to help her, then leave her aside. One should be interested in his individual self, one should not be interested with others if they hinder his service unduly. But you have married her, and there is no question of separation. You may live from time to time separately, but at least you must try very hard to help her perfect her spiritual life.

 

Your idea to go from town to town throughout the state is a good proposition. Now do it, and Krishna will give you all assistance if you are sincere devotee.

 

Hope this will meet you in good health and happy mood.

 

Your ever well-wisher,

A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami

 

ACBS/sda

[Beggar]

Suchandra, First of all your latest quote of Srila Prabhupada on your most recent post has nothing to do with what we are discussing. The argument that Srila Prabhupada is not really authorized is an idea floated by the babaji's and this argument was originally directed against Prabhupada's guru. All the GM derived math acaryas are also grand disciples of Srila Saraswati Thakur, so they would not use an argument against our Prabhupada that could, and is, being used against them by the babajis. No matter where one stands on this issue and our real point of contention, they can see that you have clearly made a mistake. It would be like saying that during the Cold War the Americans were the Communists and the Russians were the capitalists. Obviously this is a mistake and only a psychotic person would try to argue that the American government during the Cold War was run by the Communist Party.

[stonehearted]

 

No, looks like you are wrong and make mistakes, I didn't made this up,

 

Speaking of making mistakes and making things up, where's the evidence that I repeated called you an idiot--or the apology?

 

And I'd like to echo the laments about hiw far this thread has gone from the initial question.

[theist]

 

And I'd like to echo the laments about hiw far this thread has gone from the initial question.

 

That thread is dead now it seems Babhru . We have cheated CCC by ignoring his sincere inquiry in favor of the sense gratification of argument.

[stonehearted]

Well, at least you and I tried.

[suchandra]

 

The argument that Srila Prabhupada is not really authorized is an idea floated by the babaji's and this argument was originally directed against Prabhupada's guru.

Thanks so much Beggar and Stonehearted prabhus, I knew that finally you would understand my point: it is not good when Vaishnavas in a GM temple teach to the guests there was something wrong with Prabhupada and that therefore since 35 years in Austria all these many fall downs and set-backs occured. Would be great if you both could come here to hold seminars and teach this knowledge to the Vaishnavas of http://www.radha-govinda.net/. Again, thanks for grasping this important point - although it took quite some time - finally you understood what I tried to point out from the begin with: Prabhupada is bona fide and that we ALL need to accept the pure devotee Srila Prabhupada as the current acharya -- and so do all the other new comers to our religion.

 

 

<embed src="

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[Shakti-Fan]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhakti_Vaibhava_Puri_Maharaj

 

 

 

Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura had many disciples, the most notable of whom being Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the world's foremost preacher of Gaudiya Vaishnavism outside of India (sometimes called the "Hare Krishna" movement by some). Srila Prabhupada's relationship with Srila Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Maharaj is best epitomized in this letter written by Prabhupada on December 2, 1970; "My Dear Puri Maharaj, Perhaps you are my only Godbrother who has appreciated my humble service to the cause of Guru Gauranga. All my other Godbrothers are very much envious, as I can understand from their behavior." In 1971, Srila Puri Maharaj invited Srila Prabhupada to inaugurate a new temple at Rajahmundry on the banks of the Godavari river.

[url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godavari_river"]

[suchandra]

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhakti_Vaibhava_Puri_Maharaj

 

 

 

 

Well yes, it is shameful, even Wikipedia knows, why not the Vaishnava preachers of GM's temples?

[Beggar]

Suchandra, I can find nothing on http://www.radha-govinda.net or any other place on the web by doings finds, that supports your allegations. Since there is nothing in print I can assume that either you are repeating hearsay which of consists of vicious rumors, or that some neophytes at that temple are misrepresenting their guru. The burden is on you to is to prove otherwise with some kind of corraborating evidence. Actually really only matters what their guru says or writes rather than what neophytes think that have heard. In the "real" world you could be sued in a court of law for defaming individuals or organizations if you cannot support by some evidence by what you are writing is true. But since you probably don't have any assets, it's a moot point. Of course there is always the court of Yamaraja, which is something that you might consider.

[Shakti-Fan]

This Wikipedia article was written by Srila Puri Maharaja's followers, that's how Wikipedia works:

Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Maharaj

 

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

Jump to: navigation, search

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Srila Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Maharaj at Tompkins Square Park August 24, 2001

 

 

Srila Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Goswami Maharaj is the founder-acharya of the Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mission, one of the most notable preachers of Gaudiya Vaishnavism in the 20th century, and a regional leader (based in the Indian State of Orissa) of Mahatma Gandhi's freedom fighting movement.

Srila Puri Maharaj was born in the village of Fulta, adjacent to the city of Berhampur in the state of Orissa, India on the 27th of January of 1913. His given name at birth was Nrusimgha. The name of his father is Sri Damodar and the name of his mother is Srimati Devi. He attended Khallikote Autonomous College in the city of Berhampur, where he received a B.A. degree.

In the 1930s, Srila Puri Maharaj completed his studies in Ayurveda, and also became active in the independence movement led by Mahatma Gandhi. According to his biography, he was a regional president of the independence movement during that time.

Srila Puri Maharaj's Ayurvedic Instructor, Kaviraja Sripad Madhusudan Sharma, was also an initiated disciple of Gaudiya Vaishnava Acharya Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura. Through the intervention of his Ayurvedic Instructor, Srila Puri Maharaj was brought to see Bhaktisiddhanta, and on August 3rd, 1936, took initiation from him in the Gaudiya Vaishnava tradition. Thus began a long lifetime of spiritual service in the monastic tradition of Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

In 1966, after almost three decades as an initiated Gaudiya Vaishnava, he accepted the sacred renounced order of Sanyasa from Srila Bhakti Swarupa Giri Maharaj. In June of 1966, Srila Puri Maharaj formed the Sri Krishna Chaitanya Ashram in Andhra Pradesh. At the present day, Maharaj's organization the Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mission has approximately 20 ashrams. The mission has also published several books in multiple languages (English, Oriya, etc.) including "The Divine Name" by Raghava Chaitanya Das, "Sri Sri Chaitanya Bhagavata" by Vrindavan Das Thakur, "Srimad Bhagavad Gita", 11th canto of "Srimad Bhagavatam", A Brief Life History of Sri Srimad Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Goswami Maharaj, Lord Sri Jagannath, Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, etc.

Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura had many disciples, the most notable of whom being Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, the world's foremost preacher of Gaudiya Vaishnavism outside of India (sometimes called the "Hare Krishna" movement by some). Srila Prabhupada's relationship with Srila Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Maharaj is best epitomized in this letter written by Prabhupada on December 2, 1970; "My Dear Puri Maharaj, Perhaps you are my only Godbrother who has appreciated my humble service to the cause of Guru Gauranga. All my other Godbrothers are very much envious, as I can understand from their behavior." In 1971, Srila Puri Maharaj invited Srila Prabhupada to inaugurate a new temple at Rajahmundry on the banks of the Godavari river.

In the late 1990s, following the footsteps and tradition of Srila AC Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, Srila Puri Maharaj began his tours of communicating Gaudiya Vaishnava Theology to the Western World. 1997 marked the beginning of annual European tours which continue to the time of this article's creation. 2001 marked his first tour around the world, at the advanced age of 89. In that year, Maharaj traveled to the European Union, the United States of America, Mexico, Australia, and Thailand.

Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Maharaj at World Trade Center August 25, 2001

 

 

One of the most memorable events of the 2001 World Tour occurred on Saturday August 25, 2001. On that day, Srila Puri Maharaj and over a dozen devotees visited the top floor of World Trade Center Tower 2, and conducted a short nagar-sankirtana event. His most recent tour of the European Union in 2005 at the advanced age of 92 recognizes Srila Puri Maharaj as the eldest known travelling Gaudiya Vaishnav Acharya, having followers all over India, as well as Europe, Thailand, North America, and Australia.

[Shakti-Fan]

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One picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[suchandra]

 

Suchandra, I can find nothing on http://www.radha-govinda.net or any other place on the web by doings finds, that supports your allegations. Since there is nothing in print I can assume that either you are repeating hearsay which of consists of vicious rumors, or that some neophytes at that temple are misrepresenting their guru. The burden is on you to is to prove otherwise with some kind of corraborating evidence. Actually really only matters what their guru says or writes rather than what neophytes think that have heard. In the "real" world you could be sued in a court of law for defaming individuals or organizations if you cannot support by some evidence by what you are writing is true. But since you probably don't have any assets, it's a moot point. Of course there is always the court of Yamaraja, which is something that you might consider.

 

 

Thanks so much Sriman Beggar prabhu for finally admitting that HH Sadhu Maharaja and other neophytes could have offended disciples of Srila Prabhupada when visiting HH Sadhu Maharaja's lectures.

 

The temple president, HH Muni Maharaja, pointing fingers to these devotees, "these are Prabhupada disciples", and Sadhu Maharaja commenting: "You're disciples of Swami Maharaja? Why don't you go out and collect for our temple?"

 

And the whole temple room with guests roaring with laughter. Indicating that this is what Prabhupada taught, bring money. These devotees whom I know for years, felt so offended that they never visited this temple again although living in the same town. But once again, I live at best being cursed by you as candidate for Yamaraja and wish you also only the best!

 

And the members of this temple fully conscious that these devotees did not visit the temple again, no apology, no call, nothing - "we don't welcome such kind anyway".

 

"I can find nothing on http://www.radha-govinda.net ", yes, what else can be expected?

For me this is theft of intellectual property. Without Prabhupada there would be no Srila Puri Maharaja in the West. This should be mentioned on each website. Although explaining above "what is a hommage", you just ignored.

 

Even non-Vaishnavas have this understanding to thankfully refer to predecessors who did a great pioneer job on which the present situation is build upon. But as you said, neophytes could lack that understanding - it is kinda too much higher knowledge.

 

Just forgot, members of this Gaudiya-matha temple even refuse to call brahmin initiated disciples of Srila Prabhupada by their spiritual names but call them by their karmi names. Indicating what, not properly initiated?

For Sriman Beggar prabhu this is of course yet another, "I can find nothing wrong with this behaviour".

 

But who're you, another what you call neophyte? Then why you write posts at a Vaishnava forum? Better first learn the Vaishnava ABCs and then come back.

[Beggar]

Suchandra, Alright so you have finally put these in perspective and although you are repeating hearsay you may trust the persons that you heard these things from. Yet there is always the possibility that there has been a misunderstanding. Still the following quote seems like too broad of a brush to try to paint the real picture, so to speak. In other words you are being overly broad.

 

 

Wish this were true. Here we have a real huge propaganda machine going, the GM announcing, everything what Prabhupada set-up is destined to collapse. They actually believe all these desasters that happened in this part of the world can only happen when there's no link to the disciplic succession, things are cut off from the spiritual powerhouse so to speak. They actually say that the only explanation is that Prabhupada wasn't properly authorized.

 

In your last post you wrote,

 

For me this is theft of intellectual property. Without Prabhupada there would be no Srila Puri Maharaja in the West. This should be mentioned on each website. Although explaining above "what is a hommage", you just ignored.

 

 

Preaching Krsna Consciousness in the West by one of the last remaining disciples of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Saraswati Thakur Prabhupada can hardly be called theft of intellectual property. But I completely agree with your assertion that, "Without Prabhupada there would be no Srila Puri Maharaja in the West". And yes, they need to frequently acknowledge this, especially in the presence of Srila Prabhupada's disciples and followers.

[Beggar]

I found this at:

http://srilapurimaharaja.org/books/life_history_srila_bhaktivaibhava_puri_gosvami.pdf

Although I don't personally agree with everthing written here it seems to show an attitude of respect, friendship and veneration to our Srila Prabhupada. Since this is an official document from their society it seems that all members of their math both East and West are duty bound to follow it's mood.

INTIMATE FRIENDSHIP WITH A.C. BHAKTIVEDANTA

SVAMI

The founder Acharya of ISKCON, Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Svami

Maharaj was an intimate friend of Srila Maharaj. He liked Maharaj very

much among all the sannyasis of Gaudiya maths. .The Vaishnavas of all

other Gaudiya Maths were disliking Swami Maharaj. Srila Maharaj liked him

very much and that's why he was invited by Srila Swami Maharaj while

installing new temples or conducting religious meetings. Srila Maharaj

accepting his invitation used to attend the ceremonies arranged by Srila

Swami Maharaj. Srila Maharaj went around the streets of the town

Visakhapatnam with Srila Swami Maharaj and he arranged prasad and

boarding for all the foreign devotees who came with Srila Swami Maharaj.

Especially he helped them in preaching Mahaprabhu's doctrine and being

pleased in his service Srila Swami Maharaj loved him very affectionately.

Before the disappearance of Srila Swami Maharaj he called his disciples

and told them, "You take advice of Srila Sridhar Maharaj or my most dear

friend Srila Bhakti Vaibhava Puri Goswami Maharaj on any matter

regarding scriptural injunctions or temples." At the last time of his

disappearance Srila Swami Maharaj wanted the presence of Srila Puri

Maharaj at Sridham Vrindavan.

In 1971 Srila Maharaj invited Svami Maharaj to inaugurate a new

temple at Rajahmundry on the banks of Godavari. In 1973 A.C. Bhakti

Vedanta Svami Maharaj visited our Visakhapatnam Ashram with 15 senior

disciples and stayed for about 20 days. They discussed lots of issues in

Practice of Bhakti and its preaching.

Srila B.V. Puri Maharaj went to Mayapur to lay foundation to the

present Chandrodaya Temple of ISKCON. Thus a thick friendship was

established between them.

The aged and most experienced sannyasis and Brahmacharies of

other Gaudiya Maths were also attending with Srila Maharaj while

installing new temples or constructing buildings for sadhus. They also were

making success to the religious meetings following the words of their

spiritual master. Now also the justified disciples of Srila Swami Maharaj

request Srila Maharaj for attending the installation ceremonies and joining

in the religious meetings.

[Beggar]

I was just thinking about this - Are these disciples of Srila Prabhupada who were initiated during his time or those posthumously initiated by a rtvik process?

 

 

Thanks so much Sriman Beggar prabhu for finally admitting that HH Sadhu Maharaja and other neophytes could have offended disciples of Srila Prabhupada when visiting HH Sadhu Maharaja's lectures.