Excellent books on Divine knowledge, for all the levels of spiritual aspirants includ

[theist]

EXACTLY. Thank you Shakti Fan. Just like externally the forms of worship are the same so too the words may be the same in most cases but one has to see the difference in the meaning applied to the words by the speaker.

 

Impersonalism dressed up as Vaisnavism is the most insidious pollutant. The proverbial wolve dressed as a sheep to enter and devour the flock.

[dattaswami]

Real Liberation & Salvation

 

This physical world, which consists of the inert objects like Sun, Moon, Stars

Air, Earth etc., is not the world, which is binding you and this is not

The world from which you have to attain the liberation or salvation

If you get salvation from this physical world it is called the death

Death is not the salvation since even after death you are bound by the bonds

The bonds are not with the physical world but they are with your family members

It is this family that constitutes your entire world from which you must be salvated

The physical world is real and it is unreal for the creator only and not for you

You are a part and parcel of this world and if you say that this world is unreal

You too become unreal, your unreal world is your own family, which is created

By yourself only and why this is unreal?

If you analyse, these bonds did not exist

Before this birth and do not exist after this birth and hence are not existing

During this birth also, Sankara told that temporary is always unreal

Therefore, Gita emphasizes for the detachment from these worldly bonds

Jesus goes one step further and advises you even to hate these family bonds

This is surprising but if you analyse, I should say, He is absolutely correct

If you analyse deeply, these family members deserve your hatred and not love

The reason is that these family members were very vehement enemies to you

In the previous birth you stole their hard earned property and fought with them

Now they have come to collect their wealth from you along with the

Compound interest, they are in the form of wife and children and you are bound

To pay them according to the force of Karma Chakra i.e., associated with Kala Chakra

Payment of loans is Karma Chakra and payment in this birth is Kala Chakra

The same is said “Runanubandha Rupena Pasu Patni Sutalayaah”

The three strongest bonds are with money, wife and children and these three

Are called as “Eeshanaas”, which are the stainless steel chains, which never

Corrode, the secret in the force of these three bonds is only the force of Karma

The Karma is the payment of the loans with interest and for that you have to earn

Therefore, you are forced by Karma to earn the money and that is the spontaneous

Attraction to the money, the Karma is dragging you to earn the money so that

You can pay to your enemies who are surrounding you for the collection of loans

Thus these three bonds are inter related and amalgamated by the force of Karma

These enemies are in the mask of friendship and love with you and you do not

Remember your previous birth, which is again due to the force of karma only

If you remember the previous birth and that enmity you will not repay the loan

Therefore, by the force of Karma Chakra only you do not remember previous birth

These enemies can collect their money only under the mask of love and friendship

These enemies are collecting their money in the form of work and also money

The mother repays the loan by doing work like bathing and clothing the children

Such sacrifice of work by the mother is coming under Karma Sanyasa

The father repays the money by giving his hard earned property to the children

And this repayment of direct wealth comes under Karma Phala Tyaga.

But these enemies are not satisfied with simple repayment of their loans

If a thief steals your money and if you catch him will you leave him

Just by taking your money? You will torture him and then only leave

Similarly, you have stolen their property and you tortured them

Therefore, they have caught the thief in this birth and collect their money

Apart from that they will torture you by dragging you down from the Lord

 

If you progress in your spiritual path and reach and please the Lord

You are saved permanently and attain eternal happiness here and there

Now these enemies obstruct your spiritual path and drag you back

From that Eternal divine benefit and due to that you will fall in this world-cycle

In this cycle, which is the permanent hell, you are tortured forever

By this, their vengeance is subsided and they stand around you even

In your last minutes so that you will be attracted by them then also

And you will not remember the Lord even in the last minute

This is the reason why all your family members reach you even before your death

They reach you when they hear that you are seriously ill, they are very alert

But you fool! You are not alert about them and remember them only even on the

Death bed! Is your this world not really unreal? You analyse the fact

I say this family world is the most unreal world because these bonds are not only

Unreal according to the analysis of Sankara, but also they are the bonds

Of enmity and so must be hated according to the Holy Jesus

You are thinking the enemy as your friend! How unreal is this bond?

First you come out of this unreal world created by you due to your past deeds

People say often that the world is unreal, yes! It is absolutely unreal

But the world is not this physical world created by the Lord

The unreal world is your family created by yourself due to your past karma

Similarly, your religion is another broader unreal world created by you

Your fellow religious people obstruct you from entering Universal spirituality

Because they are your enemies in the mask of friendship in this birth

 

You harmed them spiritually in the previous birth and therefore they have come

Now here as your friends belonging to the same religion and revenge upon you

When you come out of these two worlds, which are well and river

You will enter the Universal Spirituality, which is the infinite ocean

Some people try to get detachment from the family bonds

Without the attachment to the Lord, they can detach from the family

By attaining self through self-analysis but in this case they can get rid of

The worries and misery by attaining the self, which is pure awareness

Such detachment without attachment to the Lord is not permanent.

The attachment to the self is not as strong as the bond with the Lord

Therefore, such people who get only peace by self achievement cannot

Remain in that state for a long time, bliss is stronger than peace

Because God is stronger than the soul, soul gives peace and God gives bliss

Therefore, detachment from the family by attachment with the Lord alone

Is real and final, the scholars get attached to the self by analysis

And think that the self it self is the Lord and they feel that they are the Lord.

These pseudo Advaita Scholars are dragged again by the families and

They are insulted by the Maya and they are shown the reality.

The service to be done to the Lord should not be decided by yourself

You are pleased by doing the service to the Lord as per your desire

Your desire and your pleasure should not be the final goal of the mission

You must do that service, which is desired by the Lord and which pleases Him

His desire and His pleasure should be the final goal of your service

Mere service is not important but the service required by Him is important

 

Some devotees serve this society to uplift all the human beings

Such social service cannot please the Lord unless He wishes so, without His wish

If you serve the society, that is only to fulfil your desire for the fame

Sankara condemned this concept of social service i.e., Loka Sevaka Matam.

The Lord knows when, whom and where to uplift in this entire world

Whether it is His mission or His personal service, His desire is important

Even in His personal service the angle in which He desires is important

If His hand is paining, what is the use of pressing His legs?

Therefore, at every step the desire, direction and final pleasing of the Lord

Is the only essence and goal of the entire spiritual effort

The Lord alone can protect you and not this world, social service indicates

Your love on your fellow human beings, who constitute a bigger family only.

You have to sacrifice everybody, everything and even every concept for that

 

He tests you by asking that thing only, which you cannot sacrifice

He always attacks your strongest bond and conducts the test

 

One test is sufficient because if you can break your strongest bond for the

Sake of the Lord, all the other bonds, which are weaker need not be tested

The sacrifice of strongest bond with any thing other than the Lord alone

Can prove that you have the strongest bond with the Lord only.

You have to cross the family bonds and even the bond with your life

As told by Jesus, <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> says that you have to cross even Dharma or Justice

For the sake of the Lord because as the protector of justice, He is greater than

The protected justice “Sarva Dharman …” is said in Gita.

Thus Datta conducts only one test and gives you the final report

You will always try to sacrifice all the weak bonds for His sake

 

Then you claim that you can sacrifice everything for His sake

The Lord smiles at your talented dramatic action and keeps silent

 

If you go on still shouting that you are His best devotee, then

He will enter the field and touches your strongest bond or your weakness

You will utterly fail at that point and your mouth is shut forever

[AncientMariner]

I still really like my family members and I pray for them all the time.

[Beggar]

<table align="center" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="800"><tbody><tr><td valign="top" width="17">

</td> <td colspan="2" valign="top">Creating Vrndavana [the Spiritual World] Anywhere

</td></tr></tbody></table>if you can create that central attachment for Krsna, then it is Vrndavana. Then you can create Vrndavana anywhere--any family, any society, any country. Just make the point of attachment Krsna, and it is Vrndavana. That is required. That is Krsna consciousness movement. His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (02-28-08)

You have to convert or divert your attachment to Krsna. That is Krsna consciousness movement. Krsna consciousness movement means we have got attachment, but we have got attachment for false things, temporary things. And if we divert our attachment, that is bhakti. Bhakti does not mean that you give up your living conscience. Attachment is the function of the living being. The living being is attached to his family, wife, children, because he is living being. So living being cannot give up attachment. But if we continue our attachment for this false and temporary materialistic way of life, then we'll never be free from this bondage of material condition. Therefore you have divert your attachment to Krsna. Mayy asakta manah. This is yoga: how to divert your attachment for Krsna. It is very easy. It is not difficult. Therefore the training is, according to sastra and the instruction of the spiritual master, that: rise early in the morning. Just like there are thousands and millions of men at the present moment, because he has got attachment for the family he rises at four o'clock and prepares himself to catch the train at six o'clock to reach Calcutta, Bombay at ten o'clock and attend the office. So from four o'clock to ten o'clock, he has taken so much time changing trains. I have seen in New York also, they are coming in from the other island and waiting for the bus, waiting for the ferry steamer, and so many hours wasted to reach the office. And he works in the office for four or five hours, then again he takes this trouble of going so many miles away. Why he is taking so much trouble? Family attachment. Family attachment.

Not that he has no attachment. He has got attachment, but this attachment, the same four o' clock, rising early in the morning, for Krsna's mangala-arati. This is a diversion, better. But he'll not agree. When he has got to go to office for earning his livelihood, he will automatically rise up and go to the office, because the attachment is strong. But in the temple, the rule is that you must get up before four and prepare yourself, and we have to ring the bells three hundred times, and still you are sleeping. Just see.

So this has to be practiced. This has to be practiced if you want to divert your attention. The same process. But because we have no attachment for Krsna, we have to be forced. Never mind. Still we have to continue this, mayy asakta..., to increase attachment for Krsna, mayy asakta manah partha. We have to train our mind how to become attached to Krsna. This is bhakti process. The business is the same, but we have to be trained up for increasing our attachment for Krsna. Not that we have to bring a separate attachment. It has to be cleansed. That, how the attachment should be utilized, that is described in the Narada-pancaratra:

 

 

 

sarvopadhi vinirmuktam

tat-paratvena nirmalam

hrsikena hrsikesa

sevanam bhaktir uttamam.

 

 

Now we..., our attachment is covered by designation: "I am the head of the family. I have to do this. I have to earn this money. I have to do that, I have to do that." This is upadhi. This is... Because upadhi means just like you are designated with some title, B.A., M.A.--there are so many designation. But that is designation. That is not reality. Similarly, the designation that "I am the head of this family,I am the brahmana,I am the sudra,I am American," these are all designations on account of material contamination. Actually it has no reality. So we have to cleanse these designations. Then our original attachment for Krsna will automatically come. This is Krsna consciousness. Consciousness is there, attachment is there, but it is being covered by so many designations. So when you give up this designation, that is called mukti. Mukti does not mean that you get some extraordinary position. Mukti means to become free from these material designations. It is same attachment, diversion of attachment to Krsna.

So in this Krsna consciousness movement everything is there; it has to be purified by diverting the same thing for Krsna. Just like we have got feelings for raising children, attachment. That is attachment. So what Mother Yasoda is doing? She is attached to Krsna, and that is Vrndavana. The same thing is there.. Vrndavana life means all attachment to Krsna. Mother Yasoda is attached to Krsna, Nanda Maharaja is attached to Krsna, the cowherd boys are attached to Krsna, the calfs and cows are attached to Krsna, Radharani is attached to Krsna, the trees are attached to Krsna, the flowers are attached to Krsna, the water is attached to Krsna. That is Vrndavana. Vrndavana means the central attachment is Krsna. That is Vrndavana.

So if you can create that central attachment for Krsna, then it is Vrndavana. Then you can create Vrndavana anywhere--any family, any society, any country. Just make the point of attachment Krsna, and it is Vrndavana. That is required. That is Krsna consciousness movement.

Thank you very much.

From 75-128-A Vrndavana 12/10/1975 Srimad-Bhagavatam Class

His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

[theist]

Knock knock ....anybody home? Forum means conversation and not just endless copy and pasting someone else's web site on these pages.

[Beggar]

 

Knock knock ....anybody home? Forum means conversation and not just endless copy and pasting someone else's web site on these pages.

 

 

 

 

What do ya mean nobody is home. I'm home Moe! Nyuk-nyuk-nyuk.

 

 

 

[theist]

 

 

 

What do ya mean nobody is home. I'm home Moe! Nyuk-nyuk-nyuk.

 

 

 

 

 

I know you are home knucklehead but you are not dattaswami. Why I oughta... BOINK.

[Redsox]

 

 

Impersonalism dressed up as Vaisnavism is the most insidious pollutant. The proverbial wolve dressed as a sheep to enter and devour the flock.

 

thats horrible. Everyone is a servant of krishna how can you even say "Impersonalism is the proverbial wolf" ? are you sure with that kind of an attitude , we aren't leading ourselves away from God? I mean, it is one thing to suggest that advaita is not your thing and move on, it is entirely another matter to say that advaita is the devil incarnate.

 

How can we see with equal vision when we have distinctions such as these?

 

See, this is why I came to the conclusion that vaishnava teachings are contradictory and divisive, sorry if that was offensive.

[theist]

 

thats horrible. Everyone is a servant of krishna how can you even say "Impersonalism is the proverbial wolf" ? are you sure with that kind of an attitude , we aren't leading ourselves away from God? I mean, it is one thing to suggest that advaita is not your thing and move on, it is entirely another matter to say that advaita is the devil incarnate.

 

How can we see with equal vision when we have distinctions such as these?

 

See, this is why I came to the conclusion that vaishnava teachings are contradictory and divisive, sorry if that was offensive.

Not offensive, just a wrong view.

 

Equal vision does not mean that every philosophy is correct even when they directly oppose each other.

 

You say rightly that everyone is a servant of Krsna and that is our equality. You are correct. But the impersonalist says that we only pretend to be Krsna's servants for a short time until we realize we are Krsna.

 

Can you see how these two ideas can never be reconciled.

 

So someone who calls themselves a devotee of Krishna but who has the ultimate aim of becoming God (as if that were even possible) will only have the effect of confusing many people and misdirecting them from the ultimate goal which is eternal Krishna bhakti.

 

At some point you will have to take a stand. There is a large chasm between the two ideas and one cannot straddle the divide with a foot on either side saying "it's all one and the same". It's not.

[Beggar]

 

 

 

I actually kind of like Datta Swami's philosophy that you can be both an impersonalist and a personalist. Maybe it means that I can be stupid and smart at the same time. Nyuk-nyuk-nyuk.

 

 

 

 

[indulekhadasi]

Beggar is the king of sarcasm. All glories!

[theist]

 

 

 

I actually kind of like Datta Swami's philosophy that you can be both an impersonalist and a personalist. Maybe it means that I can be stupid and smart at the same time. Nyuk-nyuk-nyuk.

 

 

 

 

 

What? Why you.....quit talking that nonsense.

 

[Malati dasi]

Radhe Radhe

 

If you can ply your trade here, so can datta swami, I guess.

[new---new]

dattaswami can you quote any shastra to back your claims.......especially such generalizations that all family members were at one time your enemies?where did u learn all this from ....who is your guru ?

[new---new]

 

<st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on"></st1:city></st1:place><st1:place w:st="on"><st1:city w:st="on"></st1:city></st1:place>

How can he contradict Veda, which says that the Lord does not exist in statues? Gita condemns severely that a person-worshipping statue will be born as a stone. Here the meditation upon the statue is not condemned. Only worship like offering the food is condemned because the statue does not eat the food. Some fellow behind the statue is eating the food. In Gita the word ‘Bhutejyah’ means worshipping the inert object by offering food. Ijya means offering the food. Bhuta means inert substance, which is one of the five inert elements (Pancha Bhutas).

Some people say that the word Bhuta means ghost and those who worship ghosts become ghosts. We do not object such meaning. But the word Bhuta also means the five inert elements. Our meaning is in the same line of your meaning. A person worshipping ghosts becomes ghost. Similarly a person worshipping inert objects will become inert object.

if you worship a murti thinking it to be inert then you become inert object(which is a natural law what u think u become) .......but a murti is never inert ........whenever a murti is placed in a new temple a very eloborate ritual of "prana prathista " is undertaken to install the prana(life ) of devi/devata or avatara or guru into their respective murtis.....after such a ritual the prana of the respective deties live in the murtis and all murtis are to be treated as the deties themselves .......they SHOULD definately be offered food and clothes and treated as persons .........to know ..and if you want to test ..........make a dish of acceptable food (sweet dish will do,no meat onion or garlic).....and divide the prepared food into 2 parts ......and take one of the part and keep it in front of the temple murti ....and offer it to the diety with love an affection........

 

the other part dont affer it to anyone .....after some time try some prasadam which was offered to the diety and then try some sweet from the part which was not offered to the diety ........you will be able to tell the "Difference" in taste

 

 

 

 

We are not contradicting your meaning. Our meaning is in the same line of your meaning and therefore you cannot contradict. Moreover the verse says that those who worship deities become deities etc., Therefore our meaning is in the line of the meaning of the verse.

Yajna means feeding the guest after cooking the food and not burning the food in the fire. The guest is treated like fire. The hunger in his stomach is treated as ‘Vysvanara fire’.

<st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> stopped burning the food in fire and ate the food stating that He was hungry. Kapila condemned such burning of food in Bhagavatam. The Yajna is only cooking the food and feeding the guest. In this true sense Yajna is essential and must be performed.

yajna is applied at several levels .....a vedic yajna is done for the gross macrocosm.....the gross world ......therefore gross food is burnt in gross fire ........krishna stopped yajna ....but teh very same krishna as Ram protected the sadhus when their vedic yajnas were being disturbed by demons ...in the treta yuga..........vedic yajna cures worldly ills

 

in dwapar yuga ....because of inability to do the vedic yajnas properly ....the yajna is applied at gross microcosmic level ..(human body)....gross food is offered to gross microcosmic fire (in the human body ) ...dwapar is the age of temple worship .....and tantras which involves eloborate rituals at the level of microcosm(the human body).....

 

when kali comes it is difficult to follow vedas ,tantras and temple worship .......and the easiest method of hari nama yajna ....chanting the mantra ..is recommended .......in the absence of all means ..a purely mental worship ....including offering food mentally,clothes,water etc mentally is also recommended ..................if god teaches one thing in one age and another thing in another age it doesnt mean that other methods are wrong ...it only means that god is recommending the easiest method for the age.....

[new---new]

 

Sometimes I pray at night for me to have a dream about Krishna.. I never do dream of him. However when I do cry out to him with a painfull heart something happens.. Its usually something small but just enough to let me know that he hears me.. Like tonight.. I was feeling like I just wanted to escape this life and cried out to him and then a comforting song would play on the radio.

 

when you pray do dhoop and diya ..and from the bottom of your heart pray to prabhupada........you will have better chance of success ......however i cant guarantee.....it all depends on him....

[dattaswami]

 

dattaswami can you quote any shastra to back your claims.......especially such generalizations that all family members were at one time your enemies?where did u learn all this from ....who is your guru ?

 

Gita is the special spiritual knowledge, which can be told by the Lord only. Gita is Prajnanam and not simple Jnanam. It stands as the special identity card of the Lord. Gita establishes the justice in this world and simultaneously shows the path for the individual liberation. The former path of justice is called as Pravrutti and the latter path of the individual liberation is called as Nivrutti. Both these fields must be clearly understood and must be isolated clearly demarcated (Pravruttimcha Nivruttimcha---Gita). In both the individual aspect and the social aspect exist (Lokasangrahamevapi—Gita). In Pravrutti one has to practice the justice at the individual level and propagate the justice at the social level for the peace of the world. In Nivrutti also, one has to uplift at the individual level and uplift others at the social level. In both the fields the Lord is pleased but the pleasure of the Lord in Nivrutti is infinite.

In both the fields, the obstruction for the success is also the same, which are the side attraction and that is the attraction towards these worldly bonds. When the excess attraction in these worldly bonds is reduced, one succeeds in Pravrutti. When these worldly bonds are completely destroyed due to the intensive attraction present in the new bond formed with the Lord, one succeeds in Nivrutti. In Pravrutti the attraction towards the Lord is not required and here only the knowledge of the unreality of these worldly bonds is only required. By such knowledge even if the worldly bonds are not cut completely, at least the bonds become weak. In Pravrutti there is no need of the complete destruction of these worldly bonds.

But in Nivrutti the complete destruction of these worldly bonds is essential, but the cause for this destruction should be the new bond formed with the Lord (Eka bhaktih---Gita). In fact the bond with the Lord alone can destroy these worldly bonds. The knowledge of the unreality of these bonds can only weaken these bonds and cannot completely destroy them. Therefore the Lord is personally required in Nivrutti for the formation of such a new bond. The Lord in human form is the best for the real and complete formation of such a new bond.

One should keep Nivrutti as ultimate aim. Pravrutti is like scoring the pass mark in the examination. Nivrutti is like achieving the rare gold medal from the university. The teacher who aims that all the students should at least pass should not advice the pass marks as the goal. He will advise the achievement of the gold medal as the goal of every student

In Bible, Jesus also adopted Nivrutti and He desired that His dearest disciple should hate the family bonds including the bond with his life. Hating means that one should see his family members as his enemies. When such extreme goal is fixed at least the blind attraction in the family bonds is reduced. In fact these family members were really your enemies in your previous birth. Since you have robbed their wealth, they have come to you to get back their money with interest. This principle of justice is forcing you to earn the money and by such force, you are doing the sins and get punished. When you rob the wealth of somebody by force, you have to not only pay it with interest but also should be punished. Thus your blind love on your family members is responsible for your sins and the consequent punishment.

Mohammed does not mention Nivrutti in his scripture because He claimed himself as messenger of God only. Nivrutti means loving and serving the Lord in person. For that God in human form is essential. But Islam believes only formless God and therefore it is not possible to love and serve the God directly. Therefore the path of Nivrutti has no place in Islam. Pravrutti itself pleases the Lord and such pleasing the Lord is ultimate in Islam. In Hinduism, Christianity and Islam the ultimate enquiry and the punishment of sinner in the hell are common aspects.

Luke—<st1:time minute="26" hour="14" w:st="on">14:26</st1:time> to 27

“If any one comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple’’.

The knowledge is compared to a sword. Bhagavatgita says “Chhitva Jnanasinatmanah”. This means that the ignorance should be cut by the knowledge, which is like a sword. The bonds with wife or husband and children are due to ignorance. Such bonds should break when the Lord in human form competes with them to conduct His test. Lord comes in human form in every human generation to preach and give His direct presence. If the Lord comes in only one human generation, God becomes partial to that human generation because other human generations are not blessed with such opportunity. To see, to touch, to talk and to live with the human incarnation, He comes down as per the prayers of the devotees. The Lord comes to preach and so He will not enter the statues or animals or birds. Veda says “Na tasya pratima <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">asti</st1:City></st1:place>’’ which means that God will not enter the inert statues.

Gita says “Manusheem tanu masritam” which means that God enters the human body only because the main purpose is to preach the human beings. Gita strongly says that he who worships the inert statues will be born as an inert stone (“Bhootani yanti”). The Christians should be commended on this point who are worshipping the Holy Jesus only, who is the most powerful human incarnation of God. Veda says “Na tat samah” which means that nobody and nothing should be equal to the Lord in human incarnation. One should leave everything and everybody for the sake of the Lord in human form. Only the bond with a new human being can break the bond with the human beings. Such new human being must be very powerful who can be only God in human form.

A new bond existing with formless God or statues cannot break the human bonds. Only the bond with another living being can cut the bond with the living beings. The bond with formless God is impossible. The bond with inert statue has no use. The above statements of Holy Jesus indicate that one should cut the bonds with his family and with the wealth. In Hindu religion also it is said that God (Datta) cuts all the bonds of family and wealth (“Dattam Chinnam”). Even the bond with the body should be cut for the sake of the God. Gita says the same thing as “Mat Gata Pranah”. Holy Jesus says that one has to carry his own cross (death) for the sake of the Lord. This means that one has to invite his own death with his own hands for the sake of God. Holy Jesus did like this as an ideal example for others. This means that you have to cut your bonds not only with your family and wealth but also with your life if necessary.

Hanuman, a top devotee, tore his heart with his own nails for the sake of the Lord and was blessed by the Lord to be immortal. So when the devotee sacrifices his life, his life gets protected forever. The essence of this gospel is that the love is proved only by the practical sacrifice. Veda says “Dhanena Tyage nyke…” which means that sacrifice of money proves the real love.

Money is the fruit of the work. So money is another form of work. If it is inconvenient to sacrifice the money, atleast they should sacrifice the other form of money, which is work for the sake of God. Depending on the money all the family members are attached to you. If money is not there all the family will leave you. You are also giving the money to your family only. Therefore if the bond with money is cut and if the money is sacrificed to God, the family bonds are considered as vanished, even though the family exists externally. The work of God in human form is the propagation of His divine gospel. For doing such divine work the family also stands as an obstacle because most of your energy is diverted for the family only. Therefore you do not have any energy to work for the sake of Lord.

Hence Holy Jesus wants His disciples to leave their families for the sake of God. The propagation work needs both money and work. Generally every body works to maintain his family. In the name of maintenance, several luxuries are introduced, which look like essential needs and thus there is no end for your work to earn the money for the sake of your body and your family. Your blindness increases and you will be putting more and more efforts to work and earn money for the sake of the family bonds. In such a case you can never even see the human form of God. At least you should remove your blindness by the divine knowledge if not the actual bonds. People of very high devotion only can cut the actual bonds. You are giving money to your family but you are giving words to God by prayers and you are giving mind to God through meditation.

You are giving love to your family through your work and money, you are calling the sacrifice of words and sacrifice of mind as love to God and you are fooling the God. Your real love is only with your family and not with the God. Holy Jesus tests your real love to God by these statements. The Christian Pope and fathers and the Hindu Acharya and saints left their families and concentrated completely on the work of God. Such pious souls can only be representatives of God in this world.

[dattaswami]

 

dattaswami can you quote any shastra to back your claims.......especially such generalizations that all family members were at one time your enemies?where did u learn all this from ....who is your guru ?

 

One cannot become My dearest disciple unless one hates the worldly bonds

 

Purity means oneness. Pure gold means the single gold metal without the second metal like copper. When a single bond exists without a second bond, such single bond is called as pure love or devotion and this is the highest stage. In the lower stage, even if several bonds exist, one bond only becomes the top most, before which the other bonds get rejected in case of competition. In the childhood the paternal bond is top most. In youth the bond with beloved or wife is top most. Afterwards the bond with children becomes top most, which continues through out the life. The rejection of other bonds before the top most bond is the meaning of the word “hate” used by Jesus while stating that one cannot become His dearest disciple unless one hates the worldly bonds.

The bond with inert money is only to see the happiness in parents, wife and children (life). The bond with one’s own life happens to be the top most bond from birth to death and before this bond the other bonds may be rejected or this bond may be rejected before the other bonds. It varies from one individual to the other. The bond with God is also like the bond with money. People love God and money for the sake of happiness of self (life), parents, wife and children only. Money and God are only the instruments to achieve happiness for the sake of self, parents, wife and children. If these bonds are absent, the bond with God and money disappears. This is the case of Pravrutti, which is the general trend of most of the devotees. Only few exceptional cases exist among the devotees for whom God becomes the top most. Such exceptional devotees come under Nivrutti and God loves such exceptional devotees only.

The transformation of Pravrutti to Nivrutti is the real spiritual path. Jesus referred to such devotees of Nivrutti only in His statement as said above. <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> referred to such devotees in Gita (Matchittah matgatapranah….). The divine cinema aims to achieve such Nivrutti only. But people take God as an instrument to achieve protection and happiness of worldly bonds including self. Jesus says in the above statement that His dearest disciple must be prepared to carry on his own cross for the sake of God. This means that one has to sacrifice even the bond with life for the sake of God. In fact, Jesus sacrificed the bond with His life for the sake of God’s mission through crucifixion.

Hanuman ( top level devotee of God) tore His chest and heart to show God in His heart and this also shows the sacrifice of bond with life for the sake of God. <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> also sacrificed the bond with His life and the bonds with His children, wife and relatives for the sake of God’s mission. To establish justice and devotion on this earth, which is the primary aim of God’s mission, Krishna supported Pandavas by all means and for this sake, He received the curse from Gandhari due to which all His family and even His own life has to be sacrificed. Such practical sacrifice with all worldly bonds including life for the sake of God’s mission alone could prove that God is the top most. Thus, Himself practiced what ever preached by <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>. Practical sacrifice alone can bring the real fruit and the theoretical knowledge and theoretical devotion should lead to the practical sacrifice. Theory is essential for the appearance of practice. Theory is like the seed and the subsequent practice resulting from it is like the tree. The tree alone can give the fruit. The knowledge and devotion are like water and fertilizer, which are essential for the seed to grow into the tree. Therefore, knowledge and devotion are important but without practice (Service), which is the work, there is no fruit.

[dattaswami]

 

dattaswami can you quote any shastra to back your claims.......especially such generalizations that all family members were at one time your enemies?where did u learn all this from ....who is your guru ?

 

Actually I gave the interpretation of Jesus only regarding this. Jesus told that unless on hates his father, mother, wife, children ……He used the word hate. Hatred comes in enmity. You hate your enemy and you like your friends. In the Hinduism and also there is a similar thing, that is, these wife and children etc they were in the last birth enemies, he has stolen their property, now to get back their property from you along with interest they come in this birth. They get associated with you. That is there in Hinduism also. So, taking this concept of Hinduism, I linked it to the sayings of Jesus and co-related. You cannot deny the statement of Jesus; you cannot also deny the existence of these concepts in Hinduism. Just I co-related both. And both gets substantiated mutually with each other. More of the opposition of family members, there Jesus means those who, oppose the spiritual path. If family members are good and they do not oppose, but support, infact if they are also devotees, then it does not apply to such cases. Only those who oppose your spiritual progress. To such people only this statement applies.

Suppose the family members are also devotees, now, there is a common aim of all; how to please God? , How to do the mission of God. There is a common aim. So, there is no question of bond between them. Even the bond existing between them is only due to God. Such bonds between devotees are not opposing. Even the bonds between two devotees are oriented towards God only. Both like each other because they are the devotees of the same God. One Christian likes another Christian. What is responsible here? Jesus is responsible. Is it not? That attachment of one Christian with other Christian, is not a bond. It is not a hindering bond. It will not hinder your spiritual effort. Moreover it encourages or it supports. That bond which hinders your from spiritual progress, about that only I am talking.

[dattaswami]

 

I still really like my family members and I pray for them all the time.

 

What is the inner meaning of 'Sarva Dharmaan…', if one leaves worldly bonds for the sake of God, what shall be the responsibility of God to those family bonds?

 

The inner meaning of ‘Sarva Dharmaan’ is simply total dedication of yourself to God from all sides. Anything or anybody opposing this is a sin. Anything or anybody encouraging this is the real Dharma or justice. The worldly bonds are born to use your self as the instrument of their happiness only as said in Veda. Jesus also asks you to leave all the family bonds including even the bond with your life to become His real disciple. The responsibility of the people left by you is well known to God about which you should not worry. When you feel the responsibility the detachment is not complete.

The sage Narada told in his Bhakti Sutras that the devotee attracted to God is like a person who is attracted by a beautiful girl and subsequently leaving his wife for her (Jaravatcha …….). The attraction was so powerful resulting in the state of madness, where the discussion of justice and injustice does not arise. The people who are left by the devotee in such attraction to God will have their own lines of samskara in which God may or may not take the responsibility of them based on His over all decision. He will enquire the merits and defects thoroughly and will take up the proper action. The mother of Shankara was granted salvation and the wife of Buddha was not granted salvation.

The mother of Shankara suffered in this world after leaving Shankara but reached the abode of God finally. The wife of Buddha enjoyed all the luxuries here after leaving Buddha and did not get salvation. The souls have their own merits and defects for which you are not responsible. You are worried about them because you have not analyzed the worldly love which has selfish motive only and in such case where is the point of your responsibility to them?

After crucification of Jesus, His mother Mary led her own line of life based on her own samskaras. When the love to God is in climax, this question does not find place in yourself. Actually this question is posed by others to you when you have reached such climax of divine love.

[dattaswami]

 

if you worship a murti thinking it to be inert then you become inert object(which is a natural law what u think u become) .......but a murti is never inert ........whenever a murti is placed in a new temple a very eloborate ritual of "prana prathista " is undertaken to install the prana(life ) of devi/devata or avatara or guru into their respective murtis.....after such a ritual the prana of the respective deties live in the murtis and all murtis are to be treated as the deties themse age.....

 

The atheist says that God does not exist. For him God is nothing i.e., vacant space. This is the first stage. When he sees miracles he becomes the believer in God. He accepts God as some power or energy. The power or energy is also formless, like vacant space. So the concept of God is near to his previous concept and thus the atheist (Scientist) accepts the formless (Nirakara) God very easily. The third stage is God with form (Sakara). In this stage statues in the human form are introduced. The training is given to do the sixteen upacharas (services) to these statues in human form. This training indicates that they have to worship the God in human form in this way. The sixteen upacharas are actually related to the human form only. For eg: the first upachara ‘Aavahanam’ means invitation corresponds to the human being only and not to inert statue. The statue in the temple is better than the statue in your house.

Why? Because in the temple the ‘Pranaprathista’ i.e., initiation of life is done to the statue. This again indicates that you have to worship the statue with life. The concept is the inert statue plus life is equal to human being. Therefore in the temple the statue indicates that you have to worship the statue with life i.e., the human form of God only. Like this you are slowly trained to worship the human form of the God by the sixteen upacharas. In this training when your egoism and jealousy is completely destroyed now the human form of the God is introduced. Unless your egoism and jealousy are completely destroyed you cannot accept the human form directly. So the worship of the inert statue in the human form introduces the concept of human form, then the initiation of life (Prana pratishta) introduces the concept of living human form. Thus this is a gradual transformation of you by reducing your egoism and jealousy. When your egoism and jealousy are completely removed, the final human form of God is introduced. Only a particular man like Lord Krishna is God. This is Advaita philosophy, which is extended to every man due to the same jealousy and egoism. If every man is God, nobody requires salvation.

Like this when you are travelling from vacant space to formless energy or power then you are accepting the human form but without life which is a statue in your house. In the same stage you are accepting the statue plus life in the temple, which means only a living human form. Finally you are catching the God in the present living human form. Whatever I preached here is having the best practical proof. Hanuman, the greatest of the human beings in this world worshipped Rama only who was a living human being in his time. He did not go down i.e.; he never meditated upon the formless God or the statues. In Valmiki Ramayana such things are not mentioned. He never worshipped even previous human incarnations like ‘Vamana’. He worshipped only the human incarnation present in his generation.

Similarly Radha never worshipped ‘Rama’ but worshipped only <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> who was the human incarnation of her generation. As per Bhagavatham Radha also never worshipped the statues or the formless God. Hanuman became Brahma and Radha became the queen of the 15^th World ‘Goloka’. Nobody in this world will attain a better position than these two. So your spiritual journey must end in recognizing the human incarnation of God present in your generation. God is impartial and so He comes down in human form in every generation. If you say Lord Krishna is only the latest incarnation, then that generation was blessed and God became partial. Therefore God is coming in human form in every human generation. People are not recognizing Him because after the incarnation of <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> the egoism and jealousy are growing continuously in all the human beings. The man did not recognize the God coming in human form after <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place>. After <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> and before ‘Kalki’ is ‘Kaliyuga’. Due to the influence of the ‘Kali’ people are full of egoism and jealousy and so they cannot recognize the human form of God in ‘Kaliyuga’.

God comes in different human forms in the same time in various levels for the sake of devotees in various levels. He comes as a schoolteacher for the school students, as a lecturer for the college students and as a Professor for the post graduate students. Since the school students and college students are large in number he comes down as a number of schoolteachers and college lecturers. Such incarnations are called as ‘Amsavataras’, which mean the incarnations of a small portion of His power. The incarnation of His radiation is called ‘Kalavatara’ which is the formless God like light worshipped by some believers. The light travels as waves and the Siva Linga in the temple represents this formless God. Since the Post graduation students are less in number only one professor comes down and He is the ‘Pari poorna tamavathara’ i.e., the most complete incarnation, which reveals the final true knowledge. He is called ‘Satguru’ or the original Datta in the human form.

Datta exists in two forms. 1) The three headed form. 2) One headed form. The three headed form indicates ‘<st1:place w:st="on">Para</st1:place> brahma’ (God) who creates, rules and destroys the Universe by His three faces. The other single headed form is the external human form in which the three-headed form exists as the internal form, which is not seen. This is the essence of the ‘Eka Mukha Datta’ (One headed from) and ‘Trimukha Datta’ (The three headed form). Therefore the Schoolteacher shows miracles and converts the atheist into theist. The college lecturer trains the theists in the worship of the statues having human form to remove ego and jealousy in the man and make him a devotee. The last university professor gives the final true knowledge that God comes down in human form only and that He (the professor) Himself is God.

[dattaswami]

 

i

yajna is applied at several levels .....a vedic yajna is done for the gross macrocosm.....the gross world ....e of all means ..a purely mental worship ....including offering food mentally,clothes,water etc mentally is also recommended ..................if god teaches one thing in one age and another thing in another age it doesnt mean that other methods are wrong ...it only means that god is recommending the easiest method for the age.....

 

Sacrifice of what? Sacrifice to whom? These two are the important points. Sacrifice proves the real love. Sacrifice of words, mind, intelligence, work and fruit of work are the five items. The sacrifice of the former three items is theoretical devotion which is fruitful only when it is transformed into the sacrifice of the last two items which is the practical love. You can realize this truth in your daily experience as seen in the case of your children. Theoretical love alone will not give any fruit. The theoretical knowledge and theoretical devotion are like water and fertilizer which applied to the service-tree can only give fruits through the tree and not directly.

The meals should be associated with the drinking water but offering drinking water only to the guest cannot be charged. Even the hotel does not charge for it. The sacrifice of first three items is offering drinking water and the sacrifice of other two is offering meals. To prove that your bond to God is highest, you have to sacrifice the highest bond. The other bonds need not be tested. The highest bond may be Dharma, money, life, or children etc. Some have highest bond with one of these and they can sacrifice all the other bonds for the sake of that particular highest bond. In such case God competes with that highest bond only to know whether He is higher than your highest.

People are saying that God is highest for them. Some say this with ignorance and some tell this knowing that it is not true. In both cases, God proves the truth through the test (Datta Pariksha). God knows the truth but the revelation of truth is for your sake and not for His sake. If you realize the truth, you will try to succeed in the next examination by doing the spiritual effort. Otherwise, you are expecting God to believe whatever you say and react accordingly. All the prayers to God are utterances of lies only and all the worships are the trials to fool God.

Generally the word sacrifice is used in the sense of sacrificing the fruit of work (money or wealth) and service means the sacrifice of work. The saints are not having any wealth because they have dedicated themselves in the service of the Lord. Therefore sacrifice of fruit of work does not apply to their case. Hanuman is a bachelor-saint and so can only do the sacrifice of work.

The requirement of the Lord is also very important. To get back Sita, the Lord required only sacrifice of work and the other sacrifice was not required. <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> was a young boy in Brundavanam and does not require the sacrifice of work because His mission has not started. Gopikas were householders and women who cannot sacrifice the work like Hanuman in a war against injustice. They sacrificed their wealth (Butter) because the boy also requires good food to grow well. The requirement was for the sacrifice of the fruit of the work.

Butter was the fruit of their tedious work. When the war against injustice came, the Lord required the sacrifice of work from Arjuna just like from Hanuman. Rama required the service in His personal work whereas <st1:place w:st="on">Krishna</st1:place> required the service in the work of the devotees (Pandavas). If you take Sankara, the Lord required the service of the four disciples in propagation of knowledge for the welfare of the society. Similarly Ramanuja and Madhva required the service of the disciples in the propagation of devotion and divine service. Therefore the Lord may sometimes require your service in His personal work or your service in the personal work of a devotee or in the welfare of society. The Lord knows what to do when. His decision is always the best. You should not analyze the Lord because He is beyond logic.

. Once you have recognized the God, the logic should be dropped. The logic is only used to reject the non-God items posing as God. Logic is very much required in this line. However, once the confirmation was over with the help of logic, you should serve Him with blind faith. You can use the logic for identifying the Lord and the logic is useful here to filter the pseudo human incarnations. The fruit of work (money) is only another form of work. When you work, you get some money as the fruit. When you sacrifice that fruit, it means you have done that work. Alternatively, when you have done that work to the Lord, you have sacrificed the fruit of work.

Work is a form of energy. Matter (money) is also a form of energy. Therefore work and money are one and the same even in the light of the inter conversion of matter and energy as proved in science. One can do any one of these two or both according to his convenience and according to the extent of his devotion. The devotion should not be due to fear from hell expecting the Lord to protect them there. The devotion should not be also for any fruit in return.

When there is no aspiration for any fruit and when there is no desire for protection here or there, such devotion is real. Sankara says that the devotion and service should not aspire any fruit here as well as there (ihaamutra phala viragah).

At the Lotus Feet of His Holiness Sri Dattaswami

Anil <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Antony</st1:City></st1:place>

www.universal-spirituality.org

Universal Spirituality for World Peace

antonyanil@universal-spirituality.org

[dattaswami]

 

if you worship a murti thinking it to be inert then you become inert object(which is a natural law what u think u become) .......but a murti is never inert ........whenever a murti is placed in a new temple a very eloborate ritual of "prana prathista " is undertaken to install the prana(life ) of devi/devata or avatara or guru into their respective murtis.....after such a ritual the prana of the respective d age.....

 

The unimaginable God requires a medium for expression. When the medium is charged by God the medium is treated as God directly and service to such medium is the direct service to God. When the wire is charged by the current, touching the live wire means touching the current only. But if you touch the picture of a live wire on a paper, you are not touching the current. It is only an indirect representative model of the live wire. Service to the charged medium is called as sakshat upasanam, which is direct service. Service to the representative model is called as pratika upasanam, which is indirect service only. The indirect service is a total waste because neither you are experiencing God in the model nor God is experiencing your service. This second type of worship is the worship of statues of God. Then, why not we do away with this second type of worship? No. It becomes necessary since majority of the human beings does not recognize the contemporary human incarnation due to repulsion between common external media or common external gross human bodies.

For such majority, the model worship is maintained so that through such worship, at least the psychological repulsion to the human form is removed because the statues are carved in human form only like Vishnu, Rama, Jesus etc. Some people have repulsion even to the human form in the statue and for such people the Shivalinga, which has no human form, is established. At least the concept of formless God is removed here since Shivalinga has a form. Some worship formless objects like light energy as representative models of God. Some worship qualities like love, bliss, etc as representative models of God. The human body contains awareness (soul), qualities (jeeva), matter (gross body) and energy as the shining and heat of the body and thus is a complete medium. For such psychological treatment of the human beings to remove the repulsion to the human form the rituals in the temples are being carried on even though the service part is a waste.

The initiation of life in the statues in the temples indicates the concept of life in the inert material body (statues). This initiation of life (prana pratishtha) advises you to go for the live human form and it does not mean that the same inert statue became alive after such initiation, since no sign of life is witnessed in the statue after such initiation. The ignorant priest says that the radiation of life (pranakala) entered the statue but all this is a brainwash only, since the statue does not even vibrate once.

[dattaswami]

 

if you worship a murti thinking it to be inert then you become inert object(which is a natural law what u think u become) .......but a murti is never inert ........whenever a murti is placed in a new temple a very eloborate ritual of "prana prathista " is undertaken to install the prana(life ) of devi/devata or avatara or guru into their respective murtis.....after such a ritual the prana of the respective deties live in the murtis and all murtis are to be treated as the deties themselves .......they SHOULD definately be offered food and clothes and treated as persons .........to know ..and if you want to test ..........make a dish of acceptable food (sweet dish will do,no meat onion or garlic).....and divide the prepared food into 2 parts ......and take one of the part and keep it in front of the temple murti ....and offer it to the diety with love an affection........

 

the other part dont affer it to anyone .....after s age.....

 

In the indirect worship, the worship is not aimed at the model but it is aimed at the God only. God is pleased to some extent in such worship also because the aim is God only. Of course, in the direct worship God is extremely pleased because God, who always exists in the human form only and receives your service directly. God does not exist in the inert objects (Natasya pratima <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">asti</st1:City></st1:place>… Veda) but still He is pleased in such worship also because the aim is God only. People worship salagrama (a piece of stone) as a representative model of Vishnu (God). Here, the worship is aimed at Vishnu and not aimed at the stone.

Sumati worshipped her husband Kaushika as God. Kaushika is the greatest sinner and was ready to go to hell. But from such worship of Kaushika, Sumati derived super power to stop the sunrise! Only God controls the sun (Bishodeti suryah … Veda). The wretched Kaushika cannot give such power to Sumati. This power is derived from God only because when Sumati worshipped her husband as God, the worship was aimed at God and not aimed at Kaushika. Kaushika was a representative model of God for Sumati like the petty stone (salagrama) representing the all-pervading Lord Vishnu. If that is the power of Sumati obtained from indirect worship of God, what shall be power of a devotee who worships God directly through the service to the contemporary human incarnation? Hanuman worshipped Rama who was His contemporary human incarnation and became God and controlled the sun forever. Veda says that the sun moves constantly due to the fear to God. Even in His childhood He was meditating upon Rama introduced by His mother and the result of that was the power to swallow the sun like a fruit!

[dattaswami]

 

if you worship a murti thinking it to be inert then you become inert object(which is a natural law what u think u become) .......but a murti is never inert ........whenever a murti is placed in a new temple a very eloborate ritual of "prana prathista " is undertaken to install the prana(life ) of devi/devata or avatara or guru into their resp age.....

 

What is the importance of human incarnation over a statue in our worship?

 

A statue cannot test your real essence in the sacrifice. When you offer food to a statue the sacrifice is only by words and by mind but when you sacrifice the food to the human incarnation the sacrifice is real because the human form of the Lord eats the food. Thus the reality of the worship comes out only when the Lord is in human form. Sakthuprastha was tested by the Lord in human form and not by the statue.