amost Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Hello. I am a college student at University of Georgia and studying comparative religion. Last year a student in the class introduced me to Bhagavad Gita As It Is and other Hindu scriptures. I have studied and have some questions. I came across some information about the 5 relationships in spirituality. There are master and slave, friendship, saintly and the like. I don't see anything about a personal savior and the miserably fallen who are in need of saved. There is also nothing I can find on about a relationship between the sick patient and doctor. In Christianity, the main emphasis is that Jesus is the healer of the sick sinners. Does anyone have any scripture references in Hinduism that worship God as healer of the sick sinner or savior and rescuer of the fallen? Thank you in advance, Amos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientMariner Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 My understanding is that Lord Caitanya has been especially merciful to the fallen souls of the Kali-yuga by giving them the Hare Krishna mantra which can deliver them from the sinful reactions that have created the current physical body. As far as the ailments of the physical body I don't know if Lord Caitanya heals them but I assume he has that power but it seems the main goal is to give up the illusion of associating the soul with the physical body and ultimately to think of Krishna all the time and when the physical body gives in to the inevitable onslaught of time and physical destruction, the person will get a spiritual body that is full transcendental knowledge and bliss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 Hello. I am a college student at University of Georgia and studying comparative religion. Last year a student in the class introduced me to Bhagavad Gita As It Is and other Hindu scriptures. I have studied and have some questions. I came across some information about the 5 relationships in spirituality. There are master and slave, friendship, saintly and the like. I don't see anything about a personal savior and the miserably fallen who are in need of saved. There is also nothing I can find on about a relationship between the sick patient and doctor. In Christianity, the main emphasis is that Jesus is the healer of the sick sinners. Does anyone have any scripture references in Hinduism that worship God as healer of the sick sinner or savior and rescuer of the fallen? Thank you in advance, Amos Hi Amos, I am not a hindu so please don't accept what I say from that angle. Nor am I a representative of the author of Bhagavada gita As It Is, Bhaktivedanta Swami. I am just a beginner. I have read his books and try to learn from them however. Also my introduction to spiritual life came by the grace of Lord Jesus Christ.I had my rebirth experience from the holy spirit in his name. Here again I am not a real follower of Lord Jesus Christ being just a beginner. I mention that because from your post I get the feeling you are his follower. I don't see anything about a personal savior and the miserably fallen who are in need of saved. This is really a very big and important topic. Under the broad conception of hinduism you will find differing answers to this question and some quite at odds with each other. In the books of Bhaktivedanta Swami it is made clear that God is the ultimate person. He is not just a formless energy field as some claim, nor is He just the sum total of the universe as others say According to BG As It Is He, God, is the Supreme Person. As the Supreme Person and Father of everyone we His children are also persons. The eternal difference is His is unlimited and we are very limited. I say eternal difference because at no time do we ever become God ourselves as some philosphies teach. We are eternal servants of God according to Bhaktivedanta Swami. As such his followers are strictly mono-theistic. There is only one God although that one God is known by different names in different languages throughout the world. My point is Krishna is another name for Jehovah. You needn't adopt the name Krishna if you prefer the name Jehovah. Now Jesus or Yeshua's name means salvation in Jehovah. So you mentioned salvation for the miserably fallen (us if we are honest) and according to Bhaktivedanta Swami and his teachers going back to Lord Caitanya,(as well as the Bible) that salvation is to be found in the name of God. God is unlimited and His names are also unlmited. What this means is that that salvation can be found in the name Yeshua. The name of God itself is spiritual and simply by the name of God we can be saved. That is why chanting and praising the names of God are the foundation of the teachings of Bhaktivedanta Swami. The names of the Lord reconnect us to the Lord by awakening divine love for Him within our hearts and that is salvation. This is the real meaning of salvation and not just being saved from going to hell. And this salvation is personal because God is the Supreme Person and we are persons as His children. Salvation is in re-establishing that relationship. One who delivers the holy names of God to humanity is therefore saving the miserable fallen souls of this world and is a personal savior. As the Bible says, "Blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord." The name of God delivers the salvation and the savior delivers the holy names and shows us the way to live a holy life pleasng to God. This is perfectly compatable with the teaching of Lord Jesus Christ. Does anyone have any scripture references in Hinduism that worship God as healer of the sick sinner or savior and rescuer of the fallen? Patita-pavanna and Dina Bandhu are two sanskrit names of God that refer to Him as deliverer and friend of the fallen souls. Sorry I don't know sanskrit of I am sure I could point to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted March 4, 2008 Report Share Posted March 4, 2008 [...]I have studied and have some questions. I came across some information about the 5 relationships in spirituality. There are master and slave, friendship, saintly and the like. [...] Amos, it appears you didn't study very sincerely, for you only got one out of five correct. Sincerity is the only qualification for success in any religion. The 'doctor' is God and in the Bhagavad-gita He directly offers various medical treatments, all of which eventually lead to sincerity. He describes how He accompanies everyone in their heart as Paramatma, the Holy Spirit and how He in this capacity acts as guru to lead His students to His kingdom. To study comparative religion you must understand that God is the one unborn primal enitity, upon whose existence everything and everyone rest - like pearls are strung on a thread. Knowing that this is God, you can understand each religion and their approach to various aspects of God. The science, the essence of religion is the remembrance of God - all the varieties of religious discpline aim at this perfection. God is the purifier - the path and the goal. Always be conscious of God and you will eventually find your life perfect, life everlasting, your eternal self. Seek ye first the Kingdom -- the message is always the same. Then you can study comparative religion. Religion is the purpose of life - don't waste your time. Fall in love with God as He is glorified everywhere. gHari Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amost Posted March 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Hi Amos, I am not a hindu so please don't accept what I say from that angle. Nor am I a representative of the author of Bhagavada gita As It Is, Bhaktivedanta Swami. I am just a beginner. I have read his books and try to learn from them however. Also my introduction to spiritual life came by the grace of Lord Jesus Christ.I had my rebirth experience from the holy spirit in his name. Here again I am not a real follower of Lord Jesus Christ being just a beginner. I mention that because from your post I get the feeling you are his follower. This is really a very big and important topic. Under the broad conception of hinduism you will find differing answers to this question and some quite at odds with each other. In the books of Bhaktivedanta Swami it is made clear that God is the ultimate person. He is not just a formless energy field as some claim, nor is He just the sum total of the universe as others say According to BG As It Is He, God, is the Supreme Person. As the Supreme Person and Father of everyone we His children are also persons. The eternal difference is His is unlimited and we are very limited. I say eternal difference because at no time do we ever become God ourselves as some philosphies teach. We are eternal servants of God according to Bhaktivedanta Swami. As such his followers are strictly mono-theistic. There is only one God although that one God is known by different names in different languages throughout the world. My point is Krishna is another name for Jehovah. You needn't adopt the name Krishna if you prefer the name Jehovah. Now Jesus or Yeshua's name means salvation in Jehovah. So you mentioned salvation for the miserably fallen (us if we are honest) and according to Bhaktivedanta Swami and his teachers going back to Lord Caitanya,(as well as the Bible) that salvation is to be found in the name of God. God is unlimited and His names are also unlmited. What this means is that that salvation can be found in the name Yeshua. The name of God itself is spiritual and simply by the name of God we can be saved. That is why chanting and praising the names of God are the foundation of the teachings of Bhaktivedanta Swami. The names of the Lord reconnect us to the Lord by awakening divine love for Him within our hearts and that is salvation. This is the real meaning of salvation and not just being saved from going to hell. And this salvation is personal because God is the Supreme Person and we are persons as His children. Salvation is in re-establishing that relationship. One who delivers the holy names of God to humanity is therefore saving the miserable fallen souls of this world and is a personal savior. As the Bible says, "Blessed is he that comes in the name of the Lord." The name of God delivers the salvation and the savior delivers the holy names and shows us the way to live a holy life pleasng to God. This is perfectly compatable with the teaching of Lord Jesus Christ. Patita-pavanna and Dina Bandhu are two sanskrit names of God that refer to Him as deliverer and friend of the fallen souls. Sorry I don't know sanskrit of I am sure I could point to others. Hi, Thanks for your answer. It makes sense in some ways. I guess my question sought an answer to a Hindu perspective on God as Lord and personal savior. I saw in some books that there was emphasis on relationships between God and people, but I didn't see emphasis on a personal God as Savior or as healer or comforter of the afflicted. Thank you for your response as it helps me in my studies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amost Posted March 5, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 5, 2008 Amos, it appears you didn't study very sincerely, for you only got one out of five correct. Sincerity is the only qualification for success in any religion. The 'doctor' is God and in the Bhagavad-gita He directly offers various medical treatments, all of which eventually lead to sincerity. He describes how He accompanies everyone in their heart as Paramatma, the Holy Spirit and how He in this capacity acts as guru to lead His students to His kingdom. To study comparative religion you must understand that God is the one unborn primal enitity, upon whose existence everything and everyone rest - like pearls are strung on a thread. Knowing that this is God, you can understand each religion and their approach to various aspects of God. The science, the essence of religion is the remembrance of God - all the varieties of religious discpline aim at this perfection. God is the purifier - the path and the goal. Always be conscious of God and you will eventually find your life perfect, life everlasting, your eternal self. Seek ye first the Kingdom -- the message is always the same. Then you can study comparative religion. Religion is the purpose of life - don't waste your time. Fall in love with God as He is glorified everywhere. gHari I guess I am just trying to understand the Hindu perspective on God as personal savior or healer. There seem to be so many persons of God in Hinduism, but is there a person of God that is specifically healer or comforter of the afflicted. Or God, savior of the most fallen sinners? I have found references to God as: All attractive, the reservoir of pleasure, and more, but not a God who is called the personal Lord and savior of the sinners, or comforter and healer of the afflicted. That was my only question. Thank you for your time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Oh, you mean fairy tale religion - where I believe on someone then I can do whatever I want and still go to the Kingdom of God. Sorry, that is a fairy tale proposed and swallowed by insincere poseurs who cheat the world out of the legacy of Jesus Christ. Nitai-Gaura offer salvation to even those who don't deserve it. That is your only hope. Or you could try actually reading the answers here. That would be a start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 All attractive, the reservoir of pleasure, and more, but not a God who is called the personal Lord and savior of the sinners, or comforter and healer of the afflicted. That was my only question. I thought I answered that question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amost Posted March 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Oh, you mean fairy tale religion - where I believe on someone then I can do whatever I want and still go to the Kingdom of God. Sorry, that is a fairy tale proposed and swallowed by insincere poseurs who cheat the world out of the legacy of Jesus Christ. Nitai-Gaura offer salvation to even those who don't deserve it. That is your only hope. Or you could try actually reading the answers here. That would be a start. No, I don't mean fairy tale religion. I am not asking my question the right way it seems. I am asking specifically about the names for God in Hinduism. I've found many names of God, like Krsna, Rama, Siva, Vishnu. They all seem to represent God in a certain form. I thought at first this was polytheism but as a studied closer, I found that a common belief is actually monotheism. One God with many names in different forms. From all I've read I think I am correct with that assertion. Am I? I am not trying to enter into any sort of religious debate, as I am trying to approach this from as academic perspective as possible. (If I don't I know I won't get a very good grade on my paper if my topic is not well researched and presented objectively) My question is very simple. Is there a Hindu name for God where God is worshipped as The One who Saves, or The Savior of the Sinners, or the Savior of the Fallen, or the Healer of the Sick, or the Comfortor of the Afflicted? I have yet to find such name for God in Hindu literature. I am not asking about references of God saving people in various hindu myths, legends, and religious scriptures. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 ] Patita-pavanna and Dina Bandhu are two sanskrit names of God that refer to Him as deliverer and friend of the fallen souls. Sorry I don't know sanskrit of I am sure I could point to others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amost Posted March 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 I thought I answered that question. Sorry. I didn't ask the right way. I am asking about the actual NAme of God as "Savior (of fallen sinners)" or "Healer or Comfortor of the Sick and Afflicted". Like Rama means reservior of all pleasure. Vishnu means protector among other meanings. KRishna means all attractive one. What is the personal God's Name of the "one who saves" in Hinduism? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Mukunda-grantor of liberation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amost Posted March 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 ] Patita-pavanna and Dina Bandhu are two sanskrit names of God that refer to Him as deliverer and friend of the fallen souls. Sorry I don't know sanskrit of I am sure I could point to others. Thank you. Does he have a story of his life and something about his personality? Do you know of who worships him and in what region of India? Do you have an URLs that point to his shrines or temples or anything? I just did a quick search and can't find much of anything. Thanks again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Please remember there is only one God. Not a Hindu God or Muslim God or Christian God or Hebrew God..... One God.... Only One... language differences are irrelevant when calling upon the Lord. He hears all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Thank you. Does he have a story of his life and something about his personality? Do you know of who worships him and in what region of India? Do you have an URLs that point to his shrines or temples or anything? I just did a quick search and can't find much of anything. Thanks again This confusion is not your fault. Hinduism is presented in such a confusing manner with so many different gods being worshipped. I can't advise you about gods. I am only interested in learning and sharing what I learn about God. The Lord is known and named according to His attributes. The world could not begin to hold a separate temple for each attribute and there is no need to worship each attribute separately. They are all contained in One Supreme Being. The same God who heals the body is also the God who rules time and over takes everyone as death. So there is no need to have a temple for the healer God and and another for the death God. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Healer http://vedabase.net/sb/2/7/21/en http://vedabase.net/d/dhanvantarih Hari - Vanquisher of miseries http://vedabase.net/sb/2/1/5/en Savior http://vedabase.net/bg/18/66/en http://vedabase.net/cc/madhya/1/188/en http://vedabase.net/cc/madhya/1/199/en http://vedabase.net/cc/madhya/1/200/en http://vedabase.net/nbs/71/en DayAmaya - Most merciful http://vedabase.net/cc/adi/4/15-16/en http://vedabase.net/sb/11/5/34/en http://vedabase.net/sb/11/7/18/en http://vedabase.net/sb/11/11/29-32/en http://vedabase.net/sb/11/19/10/en [url="http://vedabase.net/cc/adi/4/15-16/en"] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amost Posted March 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Please remember there is only one God. Not a Hindu God or Muslim God or Christian God or Hebrew God..... One God.... Only One... language differences are irrelevant when calling upon the Lord. He hears all. I understand that, but there are certainly different sects. Correct? There is a Siva sect, and Krishna sect, a Rama sect. Or maybe not sects, but certainly worship of God having a certain name and manifested form. I mean, Rama is considered an avatar as was Krishna. From what I can tell, the name of God is very closely related to his manifestation and how he is worshipped. I've been told by a Hindu classmate, that he is not a Siva worshipped because Siva is the destroyer and those that worship Siva don't have money or good fortune. I am not saying that his perspective is universal among Hindus or anything, but there is definite identification of God's name with his manifestation, or so it seems. In the story of Rama, him being God, then he would have had to reveal his own name. (like when moses went to the mountain to find God .. God had to reveal to Moses the name of God Yahweh, I am that I am) So it is logical for me to conclude that Rama must have had to reveal his personal name to humans, and therefore, he must have told them that Rama means "reservior of all pleasure", otherwise the name would be just made up by humans. Similarly with Krishna, he had to tell Arjuna or other humans that his personal name means "all attractive". Siva must have revealed his personal name as 'destroyer'. Each of the above names for God have also some legends and stories about them and also followers who worship them. So far from the answers here and what I've studied on line and in religious books from Hinduism, there does not seem to be a sect of worship dedicated to God as savior or Healer. There is no personal name for God as savior or healer and a cult that worships him in that way. I can clearly understand that Hinduism has many facets and is complex (from my view at least). I think I understand that to worshippers of God as Siva or Rama etc., believe their form of God a savior to them. The emphasis in Christianity is of a personal relationship between a sick needing healed and with God the physician .. and the personal relationship of the fallen hanging on by a fragile thread is with God who saves. I was just wondering if there was a branch in Hinduism with that specific emphasis, and what the personal name for God in that cult would be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted March 6, 2008 Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 I understand and trying to suggest that your question can be better framed. Of course if you are just curious in an academic way that will be different then if your question is more personal. To be honest my take is it is more personal but you are trying to frame it in an academic way as a way of trying to present Christ. If I am wrong I apologize and will refrain from trying to answer. If I am correct then perhaps just be more straight forward and I believe we can have a fruitful conversation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
amost Posted March 6, 2008 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2008 Thank you for these references. They help complete 1/2 of my research. The Hindu religion has a God as a divine healer God, or form of God which was my part of my original question. According to what I discovered on the web it looks like he is important to traditional Indian medicine. As for the savior part of my question, I can't find any scriptural sources for the name patita-pāvana except the one you gave. The word patita-pāvana does not seem to be in use in any of the classical Indian holy books or anywhere much on the net except in reference to the one source you gave. According to the sanskrit dictionary I checked, the meaning of pāvana is purifier, but all the sanskrit dictionaries that I've referenced have no meaning for patita . The only other reference to a name patita-pāvana I can find is in a Kannada hymn of Karnataka India. I checked the Karnataka region for worship of the patita-pāvana but it is not found. So I can't find God the savior anywhere other than what you say here and no reference to him being worshipped as the personal patita-pāvana savior. But thanks as I now think I have all the research done for my paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gHari Posted March 7, 2008 Report Share Posted March 7, 2008 [...]The emphasis in Christianity is of a personal relationship between a sick needing healed and with God the physician .. and the personal relationship of the fallen hanging on by a fragile thread is with God who saves. I was just wondering if there was a branch in Hinduism with that specific emphasis, and what the personal name for God in that cult would be. Yes, that is our reality and His name would be Krsna as described ontologically in this cornerstone verse: http://vedabase.net/sb/1/3/28/en That verse confirms that all manifestations of God emanate from the primal Lord Krsna "Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam": healer, savior, etc. If we cultivate humility we will appreciate that Krsna has much more going on than just saving and curing us. We are very tiny, so it follows that His name does not revolve around our infinitesimal selves. He stays within the hearts of every living being and within every atom in this material world as the ever-present friend, the Supersoul, the Holy Spirit; but that is only a spark of His splendor. When we are offered greater perspective about the Kingdom of God from the information in the Vedas, knowing that God's Kingdom is four times as large as this world of stone, and that it is inconceivably more wonderful in every respect, then we can see that God's main or original or most-fitting name will not involve us. He is filled with unlimited opulences, Bhagavan and He is attractive to everything and everyone - therefore in every way He is Krsna. "Krsnas tu bhagavan svayam" I feel your premise may be off. Jesus said that he was "sent" to reveal the good news of the Kingdom of God. He directed his disciples to preach this message in every town and village. May that continue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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