isn't Buddhism just a form Vedanta ?

[ARJ]

when Vedanta means conclusion to Vedas, the interpretation of Vedas, on these lines I feel the buddhist philosophy is just a form of Vedanta.

 

Thank you.

[Inedible]

People are addicted to their labels. I have met a lot of Buddhists who look down on Hindus as being unintelligent. I have also met some Hindus who think Buddhists are stupid. Not only was Buddha a Hindu, but he may even have been an incarnation of Vishnu depending on who you ask.

[ARJ]

 

People are addicted to their labels. I have met a lot of Buddhists who look down on Hindus as being unintelligent. I have also met some Hindus who think Buddhists are stupid. Not only was Buddha a Hindu, but he may even have been an incarnation of Vishnu depending on who you ask.

 

It is not the question of "Who you ask", it is the question of "What's the truth". Knowledge needs to be built on proofs & not beliefs, yes it can be easily proved that buddha was a hindu, but it can also be proved easily that he wasn't an avatar of Vishnu. Similarly can the buddhists prove that hindus are unintelligent & vice versa ?

 

anyway thanks for sharing your opinion.

[Inedible]

The point I was trying to make was that you can claim Buddhism is not really its own separate religion, but in so doing you might offend a lot of people.

 

(I am not one of those people who would take offense.)

[indulekhadasi]

In Jayadeva's goswami's Dasavatara sastra it is stated that Buddha is an avatara of Lord Vishnu.

Actually he is a saktyavesa avatara and came to preach ahimsa so that the people would stop misinterpreting the vedas.

[Shivaduta]

well jainism buddhism and sikhism are offshoots of hinduim...

 

just as christianity and islam are offshoots of judaism...

 

and when a offshoot believes it is different from the parent there is nothing the parent can do but agree.

the animosity betwen buddhism and hinduism is a remenant of the politics which happened around the period of Adi Shankaracharya.

but being a hindu i do believe that busddhism has cerainly scored over its parent religion by giving up a lot of deadwood (like the caste system) which bogged hinduism down...

[indulekhadasi]

Adi Shankaracharya came to undo the teachings of Lord Buddha. We cannot understand Krishna's plan. The brahmanas were misinterpreting the vedas and taking advantage of them for killing animals for meat. Then Buddha came and preached sunyavada so that people would stop eating meat and killing animals. Then Shankaracharya came to say- No! The Absolute truth is not zero! The Absolute truth is One! Then Ramanujacharya, Madhvacharya etc. came to preach that we are part and parcel of the Supreme Lord not that we are the Supreme Lord ourselves.

[ARJ]

 

well jainism buddhism and sikhism are offshoots of hinduim...

 

just as christianity and islam are offshoots of judaism...

 

and when a offshoot believes it is different from the parent there is nothing the parent can do but agree.

the animosity betwen buddhism and hinduism is a remenant of the politics which happened around the period of Adi Shankaracharya.

but being a hindu i do believe that busddhism has cerainly scored over its parent religion by giving up a lot of deadwood (like the caste system) which bogged hinduism down...

 

yes & may be caste system was wrongly propagated to lure followers, mainly from the shudra community, who knows,,,,,,,, well I'm not saying Buddha can be compared with the present day politicians who evoke casteist passions to garner votes, just a thought

 

there are similarities between Samkhya & so called Buddhism & Mimamsa & Buddhism, the terminology is different however, even i'm thinking of starting my own cult based on any of the Hindu philosophies

 

 

Actually he is a saktyavesa avatara and came to preach ahimsa

 

Ahimsa was practised & preached much before Buddha.

 

 

Then Buddha came and preached sunyavada so that people would stop eating meat and killing animals

 

Some people believe that Buddha himself was a meat eater, but Dalai Lama definitely is

 

[indulekhadasi]

I meant to say enforce Ahimsa, ARJji.

Thanks for your input however.

The only reason the Dalai Lama is eating meat is because all these religions have become corrupt due to politics and the influence of Kali yuga.

[Shivaduta]

Well buddha was a kshatriya prince before he became buddha so it must be true that he ate meat... also there is one tale regarding his passing away which involves a meat preparation

 

http://zencomp.com/greatwisdom/ebud/ebdha192.htm

 

"In the Mahaparinibbana Sutta, we are told that the Buddha became ill suddenly after he ate a special delicacy, Sukaramaddava, literally translated as "soft pork", which had been prepared by his generous host, Cunda Kammaraputta."

[indulekhadasi]

Rules and regulations do not apply to advanced personalities. But if we ourselves eat meat our consciousness will become contaminated.

[Shivaduta]

Absolutely agree

[ARJ]

Now the very fact that the Greeks & Romans couldn't think up of the number 'zero' is because the concept of 'nothing is something' was somewhat contradictory to their philosophy. Hindus were the 1st to use the number 'zero' before Buddha which indicates that the concept of 'Shunyata' is integral to Hindu philosophy & not something which was introduced by Buddha.

 

As for Ahimsa I doubt if Buddha practised Ahimsa or his followers do. Although eastern martial arts originated in India (probably out of Hatha yoga) but it didn't get popular because there wasn't any need for martial arts for Ahimsak Hindus, but lethal forms of martial arts were endorsed & perfected in all the Buddhist nations like China, Korea, Japan etc. As a matter of fact the Samurai people from Japan who were also Buddhists were ardent martial art practitioners & believed in bloodshed as not only a means of achieving their aims but as something that was good in itself, well so much so for Ahimsa.

 

This is the very reason why buddhism didn't gain in popularity in India as it offered nothing new to the masses.

[bhaktajan]

 

when Vedanta means conclusion to Vedas, the interpretation of Vedas, on these lines I feel the buddhist philosophy is just a form of Vedanta.

 

Thank you.

 

Yeah? And what about it?

What else is new?

You just noticed Waldo?

And what do you guess it says in the Vedanta sutra, any guesses you'd like to share?

 

After all your waking hours studying Vedanta you may now make sweeping declarations about ... hm? ...

 

We like our Buddhists. "Buddhist", "Buddhist-Buddhist", "Buddhist-Buddhist-Buddhist"--it's even fun to say. Even the home boys are fond of Buddhists, Buddhas, Buddhis etc.

 

The Dali lama eats meat? Buddha ate meat?

Just because you saw your father eat your grandmother's and your mum's meat, doesn't mean that you can state that everyone is eating meat?

 

sincerely,

Bhaktajan

 

PS: Beware of mentally retarded and blind, lame, drug ridden, two-headed beast-flesh.

 

Do buddhist-flesh eaters prefer male or female gendered servings of flesh?

 

Do buddhist-flesh eaters prefer white or dark meat?

 

Do buddhist-flesh eaters prefer breast, quadracepts or spiced sausages of organ-meats in intestinal wrappings?

[Inedible]

 

This is the very reason why buddhism didn't gain in popularity in India as it offered nothing new to the masses.

 

It was far more popular before Islam moved in.

 

http://www.buddhist-temples.com/bihar/nalanda.html

 

The university of Nalanda, apart from being the largest and oldest university of ancient time, was also first residential international university of the world. Around 2,000 teachers and 10,000 students, from all over the Buddhist world, stayed at this university. Emperor Ashoka and Harshavardhana got a number of temples, monasteries and viharas built here. Some time back, in 1951, an International Center for Buddhist Studies was set up at this place.

 

 

http://www.nalandaopenuniversity.com/

 

Much of the tradition of Nalanda had been carried into Tibet by the time of the Muslim invasions of the twelfth century. While the monasteries of Odantapuri and Vikramashila were then destroyed, the buildings at Nalanda do not seem to have suffered extensive damage at that time, although most of the monks fled before the desecrating armies. In 1235 the Tibetan pilgrim Chag Lotsawa found a 90 year old teacher, Rahula Shribhadra, with a class of seventy students. Rahula Shribhadra managed to survive through the support of a local brahmin and did not leave until he had completed educating his last Tibetan student.

 

[ARJ]

 

The university of Nalanda, apart from being the largest and oldest university of ancient time, was also first residential international university of the world. Around 2,000 teachers and 10,000 students, from all over the Buddhist world, stayed at this university. Emperor Ashoka and Harshavardhana got a number of temples, monasteries and viharas built here. Some time back, in 1951, an International Center for Buddhist Studies was set up at this place.

 

You mean Buddhism is so vast that it was studied in universities even than for your information the university of Nalanda was not meant only for Buddhists & people interested in Buddhism.

 

The universities of Taxila & Nalanda carried out Vedic studies which deals in subjects like health, mathematics, sex, astronomy, psychology & even law apart from spirituality. Buddhism was just another topic

 

I never said there wasn't a single Buddhist in that era, but that doesn't mean it was as poplular. Many new cults have popped up since Buddha & this will continue in the future, today there are atleast half a dozen spiritual gurus like Buddha in India, some have already proclamied themselves as 'Avatars' & they all have their own 6, 7, 8 fold path. You have no idea on how many people are following their cults. Even film actors have their own temples, SO WHAT DOES THAT PROVE ?

 

But what history has shown us that all these cults will eventually die out just like Buddhism (atleast in India).

 

 

Yeah? And what about it?

What else is new?

You just noticed Waldo?

And what do you guess it says in the Vedanta sutra, any guesses you'd like to share?

 

After all your waking hours studying Vedanta you may now make sweeping declarations about ... hm? ...

 

We like our Buddhists. "Buddhist", "Buddhist-Buddhist", "Buddhist-Buddhist-Buddhist"--it's even fun to say. Even the home boys are fond of Buddhists, Buddhas, Buddhis etc.

 

The Dali lama eats meat? Buddha ate meat?

Just because you saw your father eat your grandmother's and your mum's meat, doesn't mean that you can state that everyone is eating meat?

 

Dear Bhaktjan, just coz your mother didn't fellate you today, it doesn't mean you can vent out your frustration just anywhere

[bhaktajan]

 

You mean Buddhism is so vast that it was studied in universities even than for your information the university of Nalanda was not meant only for Buddhists & people interested in Buddhism.

 

The universities of Taxila & Nalanda carried out Vedic studies which deals in subjects like health, mathematics, sex, astronomy, psychology & even law apart from spirituality. Buddhism was just another topic

 

I never said there wasn't a single Buddhist in that era, but that doesn't mean it was as poplular. Many new cults have popped up since Buddha & this will continue in the future, today there are atleast half a dozen spiritual gurus like Buddha in India, some have already proclamied themselves as 'Avatars' & they all have their own 6, 7, 8 fold path. You have no idea on how many people are following their cults. Even film actors have their own temples, SO WHAT DOES THAT PROVE ?

 

But what history has shown us that all these cults will eventually die out just like Buddhism (atleast in India).

 

 

 

Dear Bhaktjan, just coz your mother didn't fellate you today, it doesn't mean you can vent out your frustration just anywhere

 

 

 

Holy Cow!

Do you think you have some relavatory observation to make?

Buddhism was the state official religion from circa 500BC to 1,000AD in India.

 

No one doubts the extent of University-Level of study available in old India.

 

I asked you questions in my earlier postings--I expect you to address them before you proceed with sophmoric disparagements.

 

My words are carefully choosen an are intended to be read literally and understood literally.

 

THE SHAME INVOKED THROUGH MY REVEALING HIPOCRACY IN THE VERY NOMENCLATURES USE TO DESCRIBE "POLISHED ANIMAL LIFE IN THE HUMAN BEING" IS MISSED BY YOU . . .

 

"Mensa" needs members, you may be missing your vocation--but you would have to prove your 'IQ' to them before presenting some postulations.

 

We Hare Krishna Devotees belong to the Cult of Lord Sri Krishna Chaitanya Mahaprabhu!

 

I will vent when ever I'd like to.

 

"for your information" . . . I was not venting I was spelling it out for you and other un-knowing readers "What the situation was, what is, and, what it will be".

 

Bollywood Film actors have a temple? Well, ARJ sweetheart, there's also other queer stuff in the world too. You are conflating the two spheres.

[ARJ]

 

Buddhism was the state official religion from circa 500BC to 1,000AD in India.

 

your great grand papa worked in the census department back then or buddha himself whispered this in your ears ?

 

hmmmm,,,,,,,must be some strong doobage

[bhaktajan]

India<DL><DD>Further information: History of Buddhism in India </DD></DL>After the end of the Kushans, Buddhism flourished in India during the dynasty of the Guptas (4th-6th century). Mahayana centers of learning were established, especially at Nalanda in north-eastern India, which was to become the largest and most influential Buddhist university for many centuries, with famous teachers such as Nagarjuna. The Gupta style of Buddhist art became very influential from South-East Asia to China as the faith was spreading there.

Buddha and Bodhisattvas, 11th century, Pala Empire.

 

 

Indian Buddhism had weakened in the 6th century following the White Hun invasions and Mihirkulas persecution.

Xuanzang reports in his travels across India during the 7th century of Buddhism being popular in Andhra, Dhanyakataka, and Dravida which today roughly correspond to the modern day Indian states of Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu.[2] While reporting many deserted stupas in the area around modern day Nepal and the persecution of buddhists by Ssanka in the Kingdom of Gouda. (In modern day West Bengal.) Xuanzang compliments the patronage of Harshavardana during the same period. After Harshavardanas kingdom, the rise of many small kingdoms that lead to the rise of the Rajputs across the gangetic plains and marked the end of Buddhist ruling clans along with a sharp decline in royal patronage until a revival under the Pala Empire in the Bengal region. Here Mahayana Buddhism flourished and spread to Bhutan and Sikkim between the 8th and the 12th century before the Palas collapsed under the assault of the Hindu Sena dynasty. The Palas created many temples and a distinctive school of Buddhist art. Xuanzang noted in his travels that in various regions Buddhism was giving way to Jainism and Hinduism.[3] By the 10th century Buddhism had experienced a sharp decline beyond the Pala realms in Bengal under a resurgent Hinduism and the incorporation in Vaishnavite Hinduism of Buddha as the 9th incarnation of Vishnu.[4]

A milestone in the decline of Indian Buddhism in the North occurred in 1193 when Turkic Islamic raiders under Muhammad Khilji burnt Nalanda. By the end of the 12th century, following the Islamic conquest of the Buddhist strongholds in Bihar, and the loss of political support coupled with social and caste pressures, the practice of Buddhism retreated to the Himalayan foothills in the North and Sri Lanka in the south. Additionally, the influence of Buddhism also waned due to Hinduism's revival movements such as Advaita, the rise of the bhakti movement and the missionary work of Sufis.

<DL><DD>See also: Indian Buddhism and Decline of Buddhism in India </DD></DL>

[bhaktajan]

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

The Decline of Buddhism in India, in the land of its birth occurred for a variety of reasons, and happened even as it continued to flourish beyond the frontiers of India. <SUP class=reference id=_ref-Thai14_0>[1]</SUP> Buddhism was established in the area of ancient Magadha and Kosala by Gautama Buddha in the 6th century BCE, in what is now modern Uttar Pradesh and Bihar. <SUP class=reference id=_ref-Merriam155_0>[2]</SUP> Buddhism, over the next 1500 years became the region's dominant belief system, spreading across the Indian sub-continent (see History of Buddhism).

After the death of Gautama Buddha, Buddhism saw rapid expansion in its first century, especially in northern and central India. <SUP class=reference id=_ref-Merriam155_1>[2]</SUP> The Mauryan Emperor Ashoka (304-232 BCE) and later monarchs encouraged the expansion of Buddhism into Asia through religious ambassadors. Hindu monarchs endorsed the religion (viewing it as their own.) National Geographic reads, "The flow between faiths was such that for hundreds of years, almost all Buddhist temples, including the ones at Ajanta, were built under the rule and patronage of Hindu kings."<SUP class=reference id=_ref-0>[3]</SUP> Chinese scholars traveling through the region between the 5th and 8th centuries CE, such as Faxian, Xuanzang, I-ching, Hui-sheng, and Sung-Yun, began to speak of a decline of the Buddhist sangha, especially in the wake of the White Hun invasion. <SUP class=reference id=_ref-Merriam155_2>[2]</SUP> A continuing decline occurred after the fall of the Pala dynasty in the 12th century CE, continuing with the later destruction of monasteries by Muslim conquerors. <SUP class=reference id=_ref-Merriam155_3>[2]</SUP>

Buddhism was virtually extinct by the end of the 19th century. In recent times, Buddhism has seen a revival in India from the influence of Anagarika Dharmapala,Kripasaran Mahasthavir[3],Dr. B. R. Ambedkar and Tenzin Gyatso.

[ARJ]

 

India

Further information: History of Buddhism in India

After the end of the Kushans, Buddhism flourished in India during the dynasty of the Guptas (4th-6th century). Mahayana centers of learning were established, especially at Nalanda in north-eastern India, which was to become the largest and most influential Buddhist university for many centuries, with famous teachers such as Nagarjuna. The Gupta style of Buddhist art became very influential from South-East Asia to China as the faith was spreading there.

 

Buddha and Bodhisattvas, 11th century, Pala Empire.

 

Indian Buddhism had weakened in the 6th century following the White Hun invasions and Mihirkulas persecution.

Xuanzang reports in his travels across India during the 7th century of Buddhism being popular in Andhra, Dhanyakataka, and Dravida which today roughly correspond to the modern day Indian states of Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu.[2] While reporting many deserted stupas in the area around modern day Nepal and the persecution of buddhists by Ssanka in the Kingdom of Gouda. (In modern day West Bengal.) Xuanzang compliments the patronage of Harshavardana during the same period. After Harshavardanas kingdom, the rise of many small kingdoms that lead to the rise of the Rajputs across the gangetic plains and marked the end of Buddhist ruling clans along with a sharp decline in royal patronage until a revival under the Pala Empire in the Bengal region. Here Mahayana Buddhism flourished and spread to Bhutan and Sikkim between the 8th and the 12th century before the Palas collapsed under the assault of the Hindu Sena dynasty. The Palas created many temples and a distinctive school of Buddhist art. Xuanzang noted in his travels that in various regions Buddhism was giving way to Jainism and Hinduism.[3] By the 10th century Buddhism had experienced a sharp decline beyond the Pala realms in Bengal under a resurgent Hinduism and the incorporation in Vaishnavite Hinduism of Buddha as the 9th incarnation of Vishnu.[4]

 

Sweet

 

Dear Bhaktajan, I've read many such fanciful explanations before, I've spent hours reading such stupid cooked up 'Adjusted' theories. Theories that are adjusted to specific needs. If we concur with such theories than yes Aryan is really a 'Race' & they (Aryans) were nomadic conquering invaders from Persia or that as claimed by a gentleman from Japan that it were Buddhists who introduced Yoga to the Hindus & that the Buddhists taught the Hindus how to carve stones & artistic temples & meditation techniques & what not HAHAHAHOHOHEEHEEE……… sorry, I couldn’t resist, see such theories are not reliable at all, you should take them with a pinch of salt. Your assertions made me remind of a guy named Dr. Zakir Naik.

& why Vedas can’t be any older than 3000-1500 BC as per Max Muller?? of course I’m aware of how the dates are fixed, but since the DATE the world was created is already mentioned in the Bible so how could Vedas be any older, of course theories presented by European historians & Eastern explorers have political & missionary interests, always bear this in mind. A lake at what is now Kashmir has been mentioned in the Rig Veda, Scientists now believe that there was indeed a lake in that region but during the ice age (even the internet has some info on this) so wouldn’t it simply make Vedas older than they are believed to be ? I’ve also read a theory that says stone age Shamans in Africa practised something like yoga & yoga originated out of such practises, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA……….

You can’t expect anyone to be fools enough to believe such crappy fabricated stories. Does such stories & the theory cited by you prove anything, to me they don’t make any sense at all. I have travelled India from E to W & N to S, I’ve seen many ruins, met many people, real scholars on Vedas & Hinduism, I can safely say that Jainism had more influence on the society, than Buddhism ever had. It simply doesn’t make any sense since there is NOTHING in Buddhism that can’t be traced back to Vedas, why would anyone deem it as a different philosophy.

[ARJ]

The explanations cited for the decline of Buddhism in India are either oppression by Hindu rulers or 'revival movements such as Advaita' so if Hindus were oppressive why couldn’t they defend themselves against the Arabian Invaders & why there were no “revival movements” in SE Asia & elsewhere ? but the sweethearts even have a theory that the Hindu Kingdoms were busy warring with each other, but no way they would consider Hindus as Ahimsak as only Buddhists reserve the right to practise Ahimsa & that Buddhism declined for just one reason, cause it failed to appeal the masses.

 

As for neo-buddhists, I can assure you that politicians & their followers in India didn’t convert to Buddhism for its eightfold path. I doubt if majority of them even know or have the time to learn what the heck is Buddhism all about. You have absolutely no idea how the political system works in India.

 

But why am I arguing wit an ignorant ‘Atman’ like you, when I very well know life is short. Next time don’t waste my time.

 

P.S. it seems no one has ever told you that Wikipedia is not a reliable source.

[bhaktajan]

It's a dashed good thing <HR style="COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=1><!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->

ARJ, What ho Old Chap!,

 

Forgive me for having been presumptous in thinking that you couldn't handle the subject.

 

I can see you now with your thin pencil-line mustashe just over your top lip. The yellow-gold pinky ring(s). The silk paisley colored Brookes-Brothers fashioned shirt with ascot at the empty old British-raj's club in your dottage.

Drinking martinis and indian sweets. It's indeed a dashed good thing to know that the Raj is still around. Hoorrah Hoorrah.

 

be seeing you,

Bhaktajan

 

 

<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

[Shivaduta]

Buddhism is a peaceful religion... at peace with the world... why disturb its peace

[Kautilya]

Whoever said Shakyamuni Buddha's last meal was pork is following the misreading of the Pali texts, Buddha's last meal sukkara-madava with sukkara meaning "pig" and "maddava" meaning delicacy, so:

 

"in Narahari's

Raajanigha.n.tu, among the names of medical plants,

there occurs a whole series of compound words having

'pig' as their first element; thus suukara-kanda,

'pig-bulb': suukara-paadika"

 

I cant post url for the source because I don't have enough posts

 

 

 

 

source: