isn't Buddhism just a form Vedanta ?

[RadheyRadhey108]

I presented the Buddha's words directly... not my interpretation of what He said.

[Kingdecember]

 

I presented the Buddha's words directly... not my interpretation of what He said.

 

(about 2500 years after Buddha) there is no one here who can say, "I heard the Buddha say differently"

 

(about 2500 years after Buddha) there is no one here who can say, "these are Buddha's words"

 

(about 2500 years after Buddha) there is no one here who can say, "this is exactly what Buddha said / meant"

 

Do you expect anyone to believe this , "I presented the Buddha's words directly" ? As if you are having a telepathic relationship with Buddha or may be his reincarnation.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

(about 2500 years after Buddha) there is no one here who can say, "I heard the Buddha say differently"

 

(about 2500 years after Buddha) there is no one here who can say, "these are Buddha's words"

 

(about 2500 years after Buddha) there is no one here who can say, "this is exactly what Buddha said / meant"

 

Do you expect anyone to believe this , "I presented the Buddha's words directly" ? As if you are having a telepathic relationship with Buddha or may be his reincarnation.

I presented the words attributed to Him in Buddhist scripture.

Going by your logic, one could also say that the Gita is now in doubt, since no one actually heard directly from Lord Krishna's mouth (other than Arjuna) some 5000 years ago.

[Kingdecember]

 

I presented the words attributed to Him in Buddhist scripture.

 

In that article 'Buddhism & Vegetarianism', that monk is claiming the same, he has presented what he believes are words attributed to Buddha in Buddhist scriptures, now I really don't know & can't tell who's correct here, you or him ????

 

the only person who can 'SPOT THE NOT' is Buddha himself, wish he were around.

 

but when someone says "I do not claim that every word in these scriptures is exactly the word of the Buddha" he obviously sounds more rational and dispassionate than you.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

In that article 'Buddhism & Vegetarianism', that monk is claiming the same, he has presented what he believes are words attributed to Buddha in Buddhist scriptures, now I really don't know & can't tell who's correct here, you or him ????

He quotes the same verse from the Pali Canon that you quoted. I quoted a verse for the MahaParinirvana Sutra that has the Buddha explaining why He said that (to gradually wean people off of meat).

 

 

wish he were around.

Me too... but for a different reason.

 

 

but when someone says "I do not claim that every word in these scriptures is exactly the word of the Buddha" he obviously sounds more rational and dispassionate than you.

So I guess I can claim the same of you if you think that the Gita is the exact word of Sri Krishna? And if you defend yourself then you're irrational and stuck in the mode of Rajas?

[Kingdecember]

 

He quotes the same verse from the Pali Canon that you quoted. I quoted a verse for the MahaParinirvana Sutra that has the Buddha explaining why He said that (to gradually wean people off of meat).

 

Lets not deviate, tell me why did he sanction meat eating in Pali Canon in the 1st place ?

[ARJ]

 

Well, Buddhism only has two major schools... Hinduism has hundreds of Sampradayas branching off of four major schools (Vaishnava, Shakta, Shaiva, and Advaita)... so I really don't think it's our right to judge it.

 

you completely missed the point as expected.

 

 

Lord Rama didn't refute the scriptures, but Lord Krishna did specify that He only wanted a leaf, fruit, a flower, or water offered to Him. So, I'd say that He was indirectly refuting passages which seem to (at the very least) suggest animal sacrifice by not mentioning them in the things that He wanted offered to Him. When people didn't listen, He incarnated as Lord Buddha... that's what I think anyway. You have the right to your own opinion, of course.

 

That's defamation at it's worst, however I would still love to know why Narayan as Ram didn't refute Vedas ?

 

As for Krishna, chapter 16 of Bhagvad Gita known as 'Daivasarasaupadwibhagayog', clearly states it is our duty to study the Vedic scriptures. Now when Krishna said "Patram Pushpam Phalam Toyam Yo Me Bhaktya Prayacchati; Tadaham Bhaktyupahritamasanami Prayatatmanah" it means it is not necessary that one should offer gold, silver or costly clothes, but the Lord will accept even a leaf, a flower or a fruit if offered with devotion. Now if at all animal killing was mentioned in the Vedas, there was no need for Krishna to make allusions, but he would've outrightly rejected such practices. If it (animal killing) is mentioned in the Vedas people would practice it no matter what, Krishna wasn't a fool, He would've definitely rejected the Vedas before anyone else.

 

Don't try to mislead anyone.

 

 

I'm sure they would consider Tara as having much more power than the Dalai Lama, since they think she can help them in sticky situations b/c she's not bound by a body at the moment. Tara is basically the female Buddha in Tibetan Buddhism. They love her very much..

 

Well I don't think so, let's see what a 'Female Buddha' has to say about P.P.H.H.Dalai Lama

 

Tibet's only female living Buddha, who is also a top regional official, said she was upset and angered by riots in Lhasa last month, and accused the Dalai Lama of violating Buddhist teachings, state media reported.

 

The twelfth Samding Dorje Phagmo said that since Tibet's incorporation into Communist China it had been transformed from the backwards feudal society of largely illiterate serfs with little medical care that she knew as a child.

 

"Old Tibet was dark and cruel, the serfs lived worse than horses and cattle," she told the official Xinhua agency in an interview published today.

 

Born in 1942, she was chosen as the incarnation of the deity Vajravarahi aged five. Now head of the Samding monastery, she is also vice-chairwoman of the standing committee of the Tibetan Autonomous Regional People's Congress, or regional parliament.

 

She was in Beijing for a meeting of a national consultative body to Parliament when rioting broke out in Lhasa on March 14, after days of monk-led protests.

 

"Watching on television a tiny number of unscrupulous people burning and smashing shops, schools and public property, brandishing knives and sticks to attack unfortunate passers-by I felt boundless surprise, deep heartache and indignant resentment," she said in the interview in Lhasa.

 

China has accused the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled spiritual leader, of plotting the riots and unrest that spread across many ethnic Tibetan parts of the country, in a bid to overshadow the Olympic Games and push for independence.

 

"The sins of the Dalai Lama and his followers seriously violate the basic teachings and precepts of Buddhism and seriously damage traditional Tibetan Buddhism's normal order and good reputation," the Samding Dorje Phagmo was quoted as saying - though she did not detail what his transgressions were.

 

The Dalai Lama rejects China's claims, saying he supports the Olympic Games and seeks only greater autonomy for Tibet.

 

Beijing last week offered talks with his aides, after an international chorus urging dialogue. But state media continue to unleash a barrage of criticism of the Dalai Lama or the Tibet he ruled before the arrival of Communist troops in 1950.

 

http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles/2008/04/30/Female_Buddha_condemns_Dalai_Lama

 

PS. hey KD that was an interesting article on buddhism & vegetarianism

[bhaktajan]

Om Babble, Om Babble, Om Babble, Om Babble, . . .

 

The issue is "KARMA MANAGEMENT" --in this birth; ergo, next and next and next birth, --or nirvana-patha.

 

Yooz guys think your scholars?

 

The Topic is vedanta --yet you have not laid down a ground plan for "What is Vedanta?

--Nirvana-bound?

 

--Brahmaloka-bound?

 

Or as A.C. Bhaktivedanta has uncovered for us: Vaikuntha-bound?"

 

But, I digress.

 

Please talk among yourselves.

 

just nosey Bhakta looking for pot washers,

Bhaktajan

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

Lets not deviate, tell me why did he sanction meat eating in Pali Canon in the 1st place ?

Did you even read the passage from the Mahaparinirvana Sutra I posted?

He says it was b/c He wanted to slowly wean His disciples off meat by restricting it's use.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

you completely missed the point as expected.

What, exactly, was the point?

 

That's defamation at it's worst, however I would still love to know why Narayan as Ram didn't refute Vedas ?

 

Maybe the Vedas hadn't been misused during His time like they were in the time of the Buddha.

 

 

As for Krishna, chapter 16 of Bhagvad Gita known as 'Daivasarasaupadwibhagayog', clearly states it is our duty to study the Vedic scriptures. Now when Krishna said "Patram Pushpam Phalam Toyam Yo Me Bhaktya Prayacchati; Tadaham Bhaktyupahritamasanami Prayatatmanah" it means it is not necessary that one should offer gold, silver or costly clothes, but the Lord will accept even a leaf, a flower or a fruit if offered with devotion. Now if at all animal killing was mentioned in the Vedas, there was no need for Krishna to make allusions, but he would've outrightly rejected such practices. If it (animal killing) is mentioned in the Vedas people would practice it no matter what, Krishna wasn't a fool, He would've definitely rejected the Vedas before anyone else.

 

Well, there certainly are passages that at the very least suggest animal sacrifice in the Vedas, and it did occur, so how do you know Lord Krishna wasn't either warning the people of the future to interpret it in a symbolic light or was talking to the priests of His own time?

 

 

 

Don't try to mislead anyone.

 

How am I misleading anyone? People have their own minds. They can make the choice to believe whatever they want. I'm not trying to 'mislead' anyone. I'm just stating my opinion.

 

 

P.P.H.H.Dalai Lama

 

How childish can you get?

 

 

Tibet's only female living Buddha, who is also a top regional official, said she was upset and angered by riots in Lhasa last month, and accused the Dalai Lama of violating Buddhist teachings, state media reported.

 

The twelfth Samding Dorje Phagmo said that since Tibet's incorporation into Communist China it had been transformed from the backwards feudal society of largely illiterate serfs with little medical care that she knew as a child.

 

"Old Tibet was dark and cruel, the serfs lived worse than horses and cattle," she told the official Xinhua agency in an interview published today.

 

Born in 1942, she was chosen as the incarnation of the deity Vajravarahi aged five. Now head of the Samding monastery, she is also vice-chairwoman of the standing committee of the Tibetan Autonomous Regional People's Congress, or regional parliament.

 

She was in Beijing for a meeting of a national consultative body to Parliament when rioting broke out in Lhasa on March 14, after days of monk-led protests.

 

"Watching on television a tiny number of unscrupulous people burning and smashing shops, schools and public property, brandishing knives and sticks to attack unfortunate passers-by I felt boundless surprise, deep heartache and indignant resentment," she said in the interview in Lhasa.

 

China has accused the Dalai Lama, Tibet's exiled spiritual leader, of plotting the riots and unrest that spread across many ethnic Tibetan parts of the country, in a bid to overshadow the Olympic Games and push for independence.

 

"The sins of the Dalai Lama and his followers seriously violate the basic teachings and precepts of Buddhism and seriously damage traditional Tibetan Buddhism's normal order and good reputation," the Samding Dorje Phagmo was quoted as saying - though she did not detail what his transgressions were.

 

The Dalai Lama rejects China's claims, saying he supports the Olympic Games and seeks only greater autonomy for Tibet.

 

Beijing last week offered talks with his aides, after an international chorus urging dialogue. But state media continue to unleash a barrage of criticism of the Dalai Lama or the Tibet he ruled before the arrival of Communist troops in 1950.

 

http://www.livenews.com.au/Articles/2008/04/30/Female_Buddha_condemns_Dalai_Lama

 

PS. hey KD that was an interesting article on buddhism & vegetarianism

Who cares? This discussion has gone far past the Dalai Lama. The Dalai Lama is not the Buddha. He doesn't have direct contact with the Buddha. And, no one knows if everything he does is what the Buddha would want.

[aupmanyav]

RadheyRadhey: Buddhism seems to be 'advaita', only that Buddha did not talk about Brahman. He limited himself to one task and did fairly well in that, though nothing much new, hindus always knew that desires cause sorrow. The eight noble paths also had nothing new, it was only an affirmation of 'dharma'.

 

I like your signature. Radhe-Krishna is nothing other than Maya-Brahman.

[bhaktajan]

"Radhe-Krishna is nothing other than Maya-Brahman" --???

 

Hey RadheyRadhey!!

 

Time to put up you dukes--Do something, say something!

 

Is this the correct meaning of your signature??

 

GET YOUR TICKETS! TICKETS NOW ON SALE!

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

RadheyRadhey: Buddhism seems to be 'advaita', only that Buddha did not talk about Brahman. He limited himself to one task and did fairly well in that, though nothing much new, hindus always knew that desires cause sorrow. The eight noble paths also had nothing new, it was only an affirmation of 'dharma'.

I think that the Buddha was a moral teacher. I agree with most of what you've said (except about the Advaita part... since the Buddha rarely, if ever, mentioned a concept of God).

 

I like your signature. Radhe-Krishna is nothing other than Maya-Brahman.

Thank you That's not how I, personally, interpret it, but you're free to interpret it however you wish.

I think of Radharani as being much more than the illusive power of God... since She's His counterpart and the part that completes Him. Also, She leads us closer to God and helps us realize Him in a much fuller manner, unlike His Maya potency, which can distract us from Him.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

"Radhe-Krishna is nothing other than Maya-Brahman" --???

 

Hey RadheyRadhey!!

 

Time to put up you dukes--Do something, say something!

 

Is this the correct meaning of your signature??

 

GET YOUR TICKETS! TICKETS NOW ON SALE!

LOL... Bhaktajan... you crack me up

Well... that's not how I personally interpret the verse, but aupmanyav presented his views in a reasonable and adult manner. So, I'm not really going to quibble over which is better, Gaudiya Vaishnavism or Advaita Vedanta.

The way that I interpret it is that Radharani completes Lord Krishna, and without Her, He is nothing.... and vice-versa, of course.

[ARJ]

 

Maybe the Vedas hadn't been misused during His time like they were in the time of the Buddha.

 

If you could please explain how Vedas were 'misused'. I mean if you follow anything thats written in a book tis not a 'misuse' of that book.

 

 

Well, there certainly are passages that at the very least suggest animal sacrifice in the Vedas, and it did occur

 

1st how did you know it did occur

 

 

so how do you know Lord Krishna wasn't either warning the people of the future to interpret it in a symbolic light or was talking to the priests of His own time?

 

Has anyone, other than yourself, for instance Prabhupada, ever claimed (like the way it is said about Buddha avatar) that one of the purpose of Krishna avatar was to stop the widespread practise of killing animals for yajna & thus "Patram Pushpam Phalam Toyam...

 

I still believe Krishna wouldn't have made allusions but would rather order people to follow Vedas but better skip Rig Veda hymns 1.162 and 1.163.

 

 

The Dalai Lama is not the Buddha. He doesn't have direct contact with the Buddha. And, no one knows if everything he does is what the Buddha would want.

 

it seems that some sense is prevailing.

 

 

since the Buddha rarely, if ever, mentioned a concept of God

 

yes, coz Buddha didn't believed in the concept of God, but why do you believe in Krishna

 

 

Yooz guys think your scholars?

 

donno about the rest, but I think I am

 

see ya guys later

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

If you could please explain how Vedas were 'misused'. I mean if you follow anything thats written in a book tis not a 'misuse' of that book.

Well, there are some passages that certainly describe some sort of (possibly symbolic) sacrifice (whether misunderstood or misinterpreted) to God, which God obviously doesn't want, so that's how it would be misused. God didn't want people to sacrifice animals to Him, and that wasn't His intention in the Vedas, but people still interpreted it as such, and practiced it. That would be both a misinterpretation and a misuse of the Vedas.

 

 

 

1st how did you know it did occur

 

It still occurs! Some Hindus still sacrifice animals to God b/c they think that He wants it from the Vedas! Do you really think that every historian in the world is wrong about animal sacrifice having been perfomed in ancient India? I mean, it still occurs today. Why wouldn't it have occured at the beginning of the Kali Yuga as well?

 

 

Has anyone, other than yourself, for instance Prabhupada, ever claimed (like the way it is said about Buddha avatar) that one of the purpose of Krishna avatar was to stop the widespread practise of killing animals for yajna & thus "Patram Pushpam Phalam Toyam...

 

I still believe Krishna wouldn't have made allusions but would rather order people to follow Vedas but better skip Rig Veda hymns 1.162 and 1.163.

 

Once again, I think He was warning the people of Kali Yuga, the age in which corruption and animal sacrifice (whether for God or greed) is widespread. When they still offered Him more than He wanted (through animal sacrifice), He incarnated as the Buddha to stress the point even more (since people couldn't take a hint).

 

 

it seems that some sense is prevailing

.

 

Well, since no one on here ever claimed that, I must say that sense has always been prevailing in this area.

 

 

yes, coz Buddha didn't believed in the concept of God, but why do you believe in Krishna

 

He is specifically mentioned as an incarnation of Krishna in the Bhagavata Purana... read it? Or do you believe in Krishna, but just not the scripture that details His pastimes in the most detail? So, the real question should be, "Why don't you believe in Buddha, when you believe in Lord Sri Krishna, and the scripture that details His pastimes the most lists the Buddha as His avatar?"

 

 

donno about the rest, but I think I am

 

see ya guys later

See ya.

[aupmanyav]

 

--yet you have not laid down a ground plan for "What is Vedanta?

"veda = "knowledge" + anta = "end, conclusion": "the culmination of knowledge" or "appendix to the Veda"

veda = "knowledge" + anta = "essence", "core", or "inside": "the essence of the Vedas".

 

Vedānta is also called Uttara Mimamsa, or the 'latter' or 'higher enquiry', and is often paired with Purva Mimamsa, the 'former enquiry'." (Wikipedia)

 

So Vedanta is any later or modern enquiry into the knowledge of Vedas. If I talk about Vedas, then it is Vedanta.

[aupmanyav]

yes, coz Buddha didn't believed in the concept of God, but why do you believe in Krishna

You are not correct in saying this. Buddha did not answer. He asked his disciples to note what he did not answer and what he did answer. We do not know what his personal views on the subject were.

[aupmanyav]

Actually 'sacrifice' is a wrong translation of the word 'Yajna', that is how the confusion starts. The correct translation, IMHO, is 'effort' (like in Shrama-dana Yajna). Akin to Yojna - plan, Yajan - to do. The sacrifice of the 'Purusha' also is symbolical and not killing of a person. I do not discount that in neolithic age, it may have meant a sacrifice. Hindus sacrificing animals to propitiate Shakti is a different tradition, basically pre-Aryan. (A point to note: Book 1 and Book 10 of the Vedas are supposed to have been newer than the other books)

[bhaktajan]

 

Originally Posted by aupmanyav "veda = "knowledge" + anta = "end, conclusion": "the culmination of knowledge" or "appendix to the Veda"

veda = "knowledge" + anta = "essence", "core", or "inside": "the essence of the Vedas".

 

Vedānta is also called Uttara Mimamsa, or the 'latter' or 'higher enquiry', and is often paired with Purva Mimamsa, the 'former enquiry'." (Wikipedia)

 

So Vedanta is any later or modern enquiry into the knowledge of Vedas. If I talk about Vedas, then it is Vedanta.

 

I am referring to old fashion vedanta.

1-- analyzing the material elements,

2--establishing what is temporary vs. what is eternal,

3--how karma works vs. non-action,

4--the nature of ego vs. re-incarnating soul,

5--dharma, etc.

 

Vendanta-sutra is comprised of metaphysical discussions --as are the Buddhist sutras.

 

A discussion of Buddhism's tenets vs. Vedanta's tenets are simular yet differing in nomencatures --this is what should be discussed so as to lead the non-vaisnava toward the conclusion: bhakti-vedanta siddhanta.

[HST108]

 

As for Ahimsa I doubt if Buddha practised Ahimsa or his followers do. Although eastern martial arts originated in India (probably out of Hatha yoga) but it didn't get popular because there wasn't any need for martial arts for Ahimsak Hindus, but lethal forms of martial arts were endorsed & perfected in all the Buddhist nations like China, Korea, Japan etc. As a matter of fact the Samurai people from Japan who were also Buddhists were ardent martial art practitioners & believed in bloodshed as not only a means of achieving their aims but as something that was good in itself, well so much so for Ahimsa.

 

This is the very reason why buddhism didn't gain in popularity in India as it offered nothing new to the masses.

 

I was brought up as a buddhist (although I have no particular attachment to the religion) -- So I can tell you for sure that the cornerstone of buddhisum is Ahimsa. The original teachings of Buddha had nothing to do with martial arts. Martial arts came into existance in various parts of the world due to political and cultural influences. Buddhism may have complimented these martial arts as they require a level of mental discipline and Buddhism is able to offer that.

 

However, I tend to agree with you that Buddhism didn't gain popularity in India as it did not have anything new to offer. Buddhism isn't all that different from the Jnana yogi path in Hinduism although there are subtle differences between the two.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

As for Ahimsa I doubt if Buddha practised Ahimsa

Tsk, tsk, ARJ. Once again, your display of blind ignorance is amusing. I think you need to read up on people before you blindly criticize them, you little genius:

"Abandoning the taking of life, the ascetic Gautama dwells refraining from taking life, without stick or sword."

--Digha Nikaya 1.18

"Hatreds do not ever cease in this world by hating, but by love. This is an eternal truth... Overcome anger by love, overcome evil by good. Overcome the miser by giving. Overcome the liar by truth."

--Dhammapada 1.5, 17.3

"If one should give you a blow with his hand, with a stick, or with a dagger, you should abandon all desires and utter nothing evil."

--Majjhima Nikaya 21.6

[ARJ]

 

Do you really think that every historian in the world is wrong about animal sacrifice having been perfomed in ancient India?

 

Ever heard about the 'Lies of White Men'

 

 

He incarnated as the Buddha to stress the point even more (since people couldn't take a hint)

 

Tibet, China , Japan, the West, every where nonvegetarian Buddhists out numbers their vegetarian counterparts, if Buddha really stressed the point even more, the ratios would have been different today.

 

 

He is specifically mentioned as an incarnation of Krishna in the Bhagavata Purana...

 

So what ? people have been claiming that Jesus Christ & Prophet Mohammed have been predicted in Puranas, should I start believing in them ?

 

 

Tsk, tsk, ARJ. Once again, your display of blind ignorance is amusing.

 

Many Buddhists believe that Buddha wasn't a vegetarian & they have reasons to believe that. So don't blame me if I have doubts if Buddha practised Ahimsa.

 

 

If I talk about Vedas, then it is Vedanta

 

Exactly, whatever associated with Buddhism can be traced back to Vedas. Atleast I've shown some respect to Buddhism & called it a form of Vedanta.

 

 

The original teachings of Buddha had nothing to do with martial arts. Martial arts came into existance in various parts of the world due to political and cultural influences. Buddhism may have complimented these martial arts as they require a level of mental discipline and Buddhism is able to offer that.

 

My contention was why something like martial arts never interferred with their (Buddhists) beliefs

 

I still don't believe there's any need to perfect the art of killing anyone with a single blow if you believe in Ahimsa.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

Ever heard about the 'Lies of White Men'

Oh please. Once again, many Hindus still practice animal sacrifice today based on their ideas of Vedic sacrifice... but I suppose the Kalighat Temple is also a lie of the white man... right?

 

Tibet, China , Japan, the West, every where nonvegetarian Buddhists out numbers their vegetarian counterparts, if Buddha really stressed the point even more, the ratios would have been different today.

And in many western countries Hindus eat meat every day of their lives... even cow meat. Does that mean that Krishna wants His followers to do that? No. Does that mean that people who self-identify as Hindu still do it? Yes.

 

So what ? people have been claiming that Jesus Christ & Prophet Mohammed have been predicted in Puranas, should I start believing in them ?

Well, the difference is that the names 'Jesus' or 'Muhammad' aren't specifically mentioned in shastra. The city of Nazareth or the country of Saudi Arabia aren't mentioned in shastra. The missions of Jesus and Muhammad aren't mentioned in shastra. On the other hand, the name of the Buddha is, His mission is described, and it is stated when and where He would be born... all in shastra. You're really thick, you know that?

So, here we go again:

"Then, in the beginning of Kali-yuga, the Lord will appear as Lord Buddha, the son of Anjana, in the province of Gaya, just for the purpose of deluding those who are envious of the faithful theist." --Srimad Bhagavata Purana 1.3.28

How much more evidence from Shastra do you need? I didn’t realize we could now pick and choose which one of the Lord’s Maha Das Avatara were real avatars and which ones weren’t. I suppose next you're going to say that Lord Narasimha Deva wasn't a real avatar b/c you wonder about His 'practice of ahimsa', or that Lord Krishna wasn't a real avatar b/c you wonder about His practice of brahmacharya.

 

Many Buddhists believe that Buddha wasn't a vegetarian & they have reasons to believe that. So don't blame me if I have doubts if Buddha practised Ahimsa.

 

Many Hindus believe that Lord Rama wasn't a vegetarian w/o basis. Does that mean that Lord Rama isn't an avatar either? And that we should hold it against Him when His 'followers' say, "Lord Rama wasn't a vegetarian so it's okay to eat meat."?

Once again, many Hindus don't practice Ahimsa to it's fullest extent as well. We shouldn't always blame a religion's god, prophet, or founder for what their followers do. Especially in the Kali Yuga, when all things become corrupted.

[Kingdecember]

 

but I suppose the Kalighat Temple is also a lie of the white man... right?

Idiots like you should know that what is practised at Kalighat temple is Tantric in nature & not necessarily Vedic in nature. Kalighat is a Tantric pilgrimage center.

Here's some information for a dumbo like you:

Kalighat temple in Kolkata is famed for its tantric rituals and blood sacrifices. This ancient temple reverberates with extraordinary stories of tantriks and their devotion to the goddess.

 

The Kalighat Kali temple in Kolkata is one of the 51 pithosthans (centers of pilgrimage where Goddess Sati’s body parts fell) in India. As the mythological tale goes, when Vishnu cut Sati’s corpse with his chakra, four toes of her right foot fell in Kalighat. This Puranic tale bestows an antiquity to Kalighat. Indeed, we get the legendary reference about the creation of pithosthans in ancient texts Kalika Purana and Mahabhagat Purana, though the name of Kalighat has been omitted from these accounts. The Puranas have mentioned a place called Samotat referring to the forested region of south Bengal where present-day Kalighat is situated.

 

Geologists confirm that in the ancient past, this region of Bengal was under water and gradually with alluvial deposition, the area developed to firm earth. In the present day the Kalighat Kali Temple premises house a large number of small temples of different allied deities. The main temple housing the deity of the goddess Kali follows the atchala (eight-roof) hut-pattern, which is the traditional thatched roof construction pattern of Bengal.

 

It is believed that the legendary mutilated fragment of the Goddess (called Soti-ango in Bengali) is preserved within the temple room, which is bathed once a year on the auspicious day of Snanjatra. It is a secret where the Soti-ango is exactly kept—it may be placed just beneath the image, within a small iron chest.

 

Only a few worshippers of the temple are entitled to know where it is actually kept. The face and four hands of the deity are exposed. The face is most probably made of touchstone. Myth says that it was engraved by the god Vishwakarma and was originally found floating in the Ganga.

 

As far as the practice of Tantra in Kalighat is concerned, the texts Pithmala Tantra and Nigam Tantra refer to a place named ‘Kalikshetra’—an area that is bow-shaped and extends for about 16 miles from Bahula to Dakhineshwar. It was believed that a part of the mangled corpse of Sati had fallen centrally within that arched area. The Tantra Chudamani acknowledges Kalighat as a ‘Kali pith’ (centre dedicated to the worship of Kali). In the Mahanil Tantra the presiding deity at Kalighat has been named as the Guhya Kali, the Kali who is not revealed.

 

References in ancient texts say that in the past, Kalighat was inhabited by the kapalikas who would worship the Goddess with human sacrifices. On new moon nights, they would chant Kali’s name, which would reverberate in the dense forests of the area. Boatmen would warn travelers not to stop over at Kalighat else their lives would be in danger. Once when the kapalikas decided to sacrifice a little boy to the Goddess, his widowed mother pleaded with the Goddess to save her son’s life. As the story goes, the Goddess did answer her prayer. She brewed up a storm. The boy sought shelter under a cactus bush when it started to rain heavily. The kapalikas were unable to find the boy and dispersed in the storm. The cactus bush under which the boy hid got the name sosthi tala; it’s well known that Kali is also known as Sosthi—goddess of child welfare.

 

The benign Goddess wished human sacrifices to stop. It is said she wanted householders only to worship her. It was upon her wish that a girl child was born by the union of a Brahmachari and a Vairavi. She got married to a Brahmin named Bhagwandas Chakraborty of Jessore district. Bhagwandas felt that since his wife Uma was an illegitimate child, her descendants should not be allowed to worship the Goddess. He realized that it was a better idea to appoint specialized persons from outside to take care of Kalighat. Thereafter the Haldars started worshiping the Goddess at Kalighat.

 

There have been heated debates in recent times about the sacrifice of animals before the altar of the Goddess. Santi Pada Bhattacharya, chief ritual and scriptural advisor and head priest of Mahapith Kali Mandir, says, “Non-vegetarians do eat meat. When goats are killed in butchers’ shops, it is often done mercilessly and those who buy the meat usually don’t feel any gratefulness to the Goddess for the food they are eating. Goats are killed in the temple with minimal pain, by just one stroke of the sword. Vegetarians can offer coconuts, pumpkin and sugarcane to the Goddess. Sacrificing a vegetable has the same symbolic significance and value as sacrificing an animal.” The tradition of animal sacrifices that prevails in Kalighat is on the lines of Tantric scriptures.

 

Kalighat has always been an important center of Tantric pilgrimage. Tantra is open to men and women of all castes. Prevailing misconceptions often associate Tantra with black magic and sex. Tantric practices in Kalighat cannot be categorized so myopically. Also, when genuine Tantriks imbibe meat and alcohol, it is not for hedonistic pleasure but with faith that that they are tasting the Divine Goddess through the consumption of these.

 

Says Santi Pada Bhattacharya, "Brahmananda Giri, a renowned Tantrik of India, practised in Kalighat. He underwent penance to reach out to Goddess Kali. In the scorching heat of summer, he would be deeply immersed in prayer after having lit fires around him. On bitterly cold winter nights, he would immerse himself neck deep in the water of the Ganga and pray to the Goddess. Finally, he was blessed with the divine form of the Goddess. Kali promised Brahmananda that she would be there for him whenever he asked for her. The Goddess put herself in a stone which still exists and can be seen below the altar of the Goddess in the temple." Adds Santi Pada’s brother Mukti Bhattacharya, "A true sadhak can be called a true Tantrik. Lokhnath Brahmachari, Ramakrishna Paramahansa and Vivekananda would come to Kalighat to worship the Goddess." Tantra is the path to realise and make optimum use of one’s innate shakti (power) through the worship of Goddess Shakti.

 

Tantriks still come to Kalighat to take vows of self-discipline. But how can one identify a true Tantrik? Not everyone who is dressed in red robes is a Tantrik. "Unfortunately there are many fraud Tantriks in Kalighat, making brisk money in the name of Tantra. A true Tantrik will not want to reveal his identity and the secret of Tantra," explains Santi Pada. After all, the ultimate aim of Tantra sadhana is to merge individual consciousness with the Cosmic Force.

 

Now please answer this question why does the Kalachakra-Tantra which supposedly is a “ritual for world peace” prophesy and glorify a holy war (Shambhala war) by Buddhists against non-Buddhists ?