What have we done to come or be born in ISKCON?

realist · March 10, 2008

Morning Walk, Mayapur, March 14, 1976, 760314MW.MAY:

Panca-dravida: Srila Prabhupada, what is our fortune that we've come in contact with a qualified guru? What have we done to qualify to come in contact with you?

Revatinandana: In other words, why do some come and others not come?

Prabhupada: It is the ajnata-sukrti, say. Ajnata-sukrti. You might have done something, very pious activities, which you do not know, but on the effect of...

Madhudvisa: So it seems like it's up to chance, then.

Prabhupada: No chance. Just like a sinful man. Some saintly person comes to him and he gives some money to him. He does not know that "I am doing very pious activity," but because he has given, he becomes pious.

Revatinandana: If not even a blade of grass moves unless Krsna sanctions it, then why does someone have the opportunity to perform such ajnata-sukrti, another person not?

Prabhupada: Yes, Krsna wants... Suppose a saintly person comes to a very sinful man. He needs some money. Immediately Krsna says, "Give him some money. He requires." So he says, "All right, sir, take it." So Krsna's desires, he gives. Unless Krsna dictates from within, how he can give?

Harisauri: So then where is the question of free will? If I want to give or not give...

Prabhupada: No, no, free will under Krsna. You can become free will and become a big man immediately. Your free will sanctioned by Krsna. You are not so free that whatever you like, you can do.

Madhudvisa: So even if I want to perform some ajnata-sukrti, it is only by Krsna's mercy that I will do it.

Prabhupada: Yes. That is stated by Caitanya Mahaprabhu. (CC Madhya 19.151)

brahmanda bhramite kona bhagyavan jiva

guru-krsna-krpaya paya bhakti lata bija

As soon as he gives to a saintly person, bhakta, he immediately acquires some asset of future development. Immediately.

Acyutananda: If someone gives to a person for spiritual..., consciously for spiritual improvement...

Prabhupada: There is no question of...

Acyutananda: ...and the person misuses the money, does he benefit?

Prabhupada: Eh?

Acyutananda: If a man says, "I am giving you this donation because it is a spiritual organization," but if the money is misused, does that man benefit?

Prabhupada: If money is misused, then both of them become implicated. If it is not used for Krsna, then both of them becomes under the laws of karma.

Acyutananda: But that man is sincere.

Prabhupada: Well, this word sincere, there is no meaning unless he is a devotee. Ei bala ei manda sab mano dharma: "These are all mental concoction." There is no meaning. "This man is good. This man is sincere. This man is bad. This man is..." They are all mental concoction. Only good is he who is Krsna conscious. Others all rascals.

Harisauri: So if Krsna has given the dictation, then is He dictating every sinful man to give?

Prabhupada: Hm?

Harisauri: Is he dictating every sinful man to give?

Prabhupada: Why do you question like that? Krsna is so foolish that He will dictate to give to a foolish, er, sinful man? It is odd question.

Harisauri: This is that point that does one come to..., does one get contact with a pure devotee and advance like that from his own free will, from accepting the mercy of the spiritual master or not?

Prabhupada: What does he say? Hm?

Harisauri: The point.... The point...

Prabhupada: Somebody answer.

Jayadvaita: Not every sinful man is dictated to give money; otherwise they'd all be giving us money. They're all sinful. We'd be getting money from everyone.

Revatinandana: But then the question is why some and not others also?

Trivikrama: Krsna is in everyone's heart.

Gurukrpa: But some are innocent.

Prabhupada: That is Krsna's dictation.

Revatinandana: Yes.

Prabhupada: Yes. And you cannot bind Krsna to dictate in a similar way. If He likes, He can ask a sinful man, "Do this." If He doesn't like, He may not act. That is Krsna.

Revatinandana: So ultimately it is simply by the mercy of Krsna...

Prabhupada: Yes.

Revatinandana: ...that he comes back to Krsna.

Prabhupada: Yes. So it is Krsna's business where to show mercy, where not to show. You cannot oblige Him that "You show mercy everywhere." No. Naham prakasah sarvasya yoga-maya-samavrtah. Krsna.... You cannot oblige Krsna, "You do this." That is not Krsna. That is not Krsna.

If one is obliged to act to your dictation, then he is not Krsna. Therefore whatever Krsna likes, He'll do.

You cannot oblige Him that "You have to do it." No. That is karma-mimamsa, that "If good work gives good result, so why should we care for Krsna? We shall do the good work."

That is... Ordinary people, they think like that. Karma-mimamsa. "If I do good work, Krsna will be obliged to give me good effect. Why shall I care for Krsna?"

That is karma-mimamsa. "Work is final. Do good work, that's all." They say like that. But we say, even if you do good work, if Krsna does not want it, then it will not produce good result. That is Krsna.

Trivikrama: We don't have the mercy of Krsna yet, so...

Prabhupada: No, no. Everyone has got the mercy, but that mercy is not obligatory. If He likes, He can give you mercy; if He does not like, He may not.

Trivikrama: But everyone has it.

Prabhupada: Everyone... He is giving mercy. That is general. But if He does not like, He may not give you. You cannot make Him obliged.

Panca-dravida: So why is it, then, if it's a question of ajnata-sukrti... The Indians, from their birth they're watering Tulasi, they're chanting Hare Krsna, they're doing so many activities, but mostly your disciples are foreigners?

Prabhupada: So that... No, means that is temporary. They may come again. It will never go in vain. Just like this cloud. Cloud is meant for raining. Now it is not raining, but when there is sufficient cloud, it will rain. You cannot say there is no rain. There is, but it is not sufficiently collected. When it is sufficiently collected, then.

Giriraja Swami, Nectar of Devotion course, Vrindavan 1994(?): Well, there's something called ajnata-sukrti, which means some activity that's favorable to Krsna consciousness in which the person is not aware of the fact that he is doing devotional service.

So, in a broad definition of bhakti, just like someone sees a devotee and he just appreciates that the devotee is nice, so that appreciation... one makes advancement by that appreciation, but he doesn't know that the person is a devotee and that he is engaged in devotional service, but he just appreciates the person, so the person makes advancement.

Now whether we want to say that's devotional service or something preliminary to devotional service, it would depend, because definitions can be more broad or more narrow and when Srila Prabhupada is in a more generous mood, he may call it devotional service, but when he's discussing in a more strict way, it becomes like a preliminary activity and when enough of such preliminary activities accumulate, then one can engage in devotional service.

But you see it can't be considered pious activity, because devotional service isn't caused by anything material, so no amount of pious activity can cause devotional service to manifest. But these activities, they're like devotional service, but they're not exactly devotional service.

...they're favorable to the devotee, the devotee is related to Krsna, so therefore they're favorable to Krsna and Krsna will be pleased, that "O, he's appreciating My devotee..."

Bhaktivinoda Thakura has said that there are two types of fortunate activities.

One which leads to bhakti and one which doesn't lead to bhakti and the type that doesn't lead to bhakti is not really fortunate.

So activities like giving in charity may help or they may not help, but ajnata-sukrti, which means activities favorable to Krsna consciousness done without knowledge, that will definitely lead to Krsna consciousness.

Just like when Srila Prabhupada went to New York - at one of the programs he wanted to sell his books after the program, so he asked someone in the audience to help him sell his books.

So the person didn't know what is Krsna consciousness, who is Srila Prabhupada, what is devotional service, but he did unknowingly something. So that's ajnata-sukrti and when such ajnata-sukrti accumulates, then one becomes very open to Krsna consciousness.

Pious activity, especially in relation to pure devotees, makes one fortunate. But we cannot say that... I'll give an example: the same topic was discussed with Srila Prabhupada.

And Srila Prabhupada was saying, that you cannot say that bhakti is caused by karma, because that would mean that bhakti is subservient to karma; that means that Krsna has to give bhakti.

So this is the karma-mimamsa theory: that everything is karma and if one does good karma, God has to give the result. So don't care for God, just care for karma. So that's the karma-mimamsa theory.

So if bhakti were, if one could get bhakti by karma, then where is Krsna, where is Krsna's independence.

So Srila Prabhupada gave the example that ajnata-sukrti, it accumulates. Like sometimes we see many pious people in India, people who are more pious than we were. They chant, they pour water on Tulasidevi and they're vegetarian and so many things. But they don't actually take to devotional service. But Srila Prabhupada said "Yes, but whatever they are doing is not going in vain. It's all good

So Raghubir Prabhu also made a good point, that with a moment's association, you can get some ajnata-sukrti and ultimately the ajnata-sukrti could lead to bhakti.

Karma-unmukhi-sukrti - virtue or merit from pious acts

Jnana-unmukhi-sukrti - virtue or merit from the cultivation of knowledge

Bhakty-unmukhi-sukrti - virtue or merit from devotional activities