Milk Production And Cruelty to Cattle

[theist]

Milk Production And Cruelty to Cattle

 

by Sridhar Raman

Posted March 11, 2008

There has been some discussion about vegan versus vegetarian diets and which is superior — morally, spiritually and health-wise. Here are some points that might be useful to consider.

Most large-scale modern farms treat their animals cruelly. Cows are injected with massive doses of antibiotics and growth hormones, and they are crammed into very small spaces. A lot of them get crippled because their legs can't hold their unnatural weight due to the growth hormones, and many become diseased because of their living conditions. These are very stressful conditions, and stress is known to produce toxins within the body. The milk produced from cows in large-scale farms not only promotes cruelty to the animals but is also unhealthy to ourselves.

For lacto-vegetarians, a better alternative would be to buy organic milk and milk products from farms that allow animals to roam free- range for at least for a good part of the day and that provide decent living spaces to them. These farms are typically family-owned and operate as a small-scale business. They often encourage you to write to them to obtain information about their farming practices and philosophy (check the labels on the container for contact information). Some of these people come across as conscientious human beings who are committed to treating their animals more humanely.

However, there are some downsides to this alternative. Cost is a factor, in that organic milk and milk products are more expensive than regular ones. More importantly, these farms must send male calves to the veal industry and the older cows for slaughter in order to survive against market forces. If they don't, they will have to shut down.

A vegan diet which satisfies all the nutrient requirements and contributes to physical well-being is the best option. If one is unable to follow a vegan diet but wishes to minimize one's participation in the cruelty to cows, one could do these three things: buy milk from organic and small-scale farms that treat their animals humanely, use milk sparingly as needed and, when possible, use soy milk as a substitute.

We can go on endlessly discussing and rationalizing about how Krishna liked his milk and how Prabhupada encouraged milk consumption, but ultimately, it all comes down to our conscience and how much compassion we are willing to extend — both to suffering animals and to own well-being. The only place where controversy exists is within ourselves.

[gHari]

Who controls the birth of a cow?

 

So we have a cow.

 

What will we do with it since we do not control its presence?

 

Or really, what will THEY do with it? Will they kill them all?

 

The problem is not so straight forward.

 

Don't drink chocolate milk.

[Malati dasi]

Radhe Radhe

 

Though I mostly use soy milk, I, from time to time, use commercial milk for baking. So I'm also guilty of this crime of violence to cows. But if you look at the big picture, eating only plants also means killing.

 

I agree with GHari. These cows will eventually meet their violent end, whether we buy their milk or not. One GM Guru said that the only way to liberate these poor cows in commercial cow farms is to offer their milk to Radha_Krishna.

 

[theist]

 

Who controls the birth of a cow?

 

So we have a cow.

 

What will we do with it since we do not control its presence?

 

Or really, what will THEY do with it? Will they kill them all?

 

The problem is not so straight forward.

 

Don't drink chocolate milk.

 

Sorry I lost my decoder ring gHari. Maybe you could put that in straight english.

[theist]

 

Radhe Radhe

 

Though I mostly use soy milk, I, from time to time, use commercial milk for baking. So I'm also guilty of this crime of violence to cows. But if you look at the big picture, eating only plants also means killing.

 

I agree with GHari. These cows will eventually meet their violent end, whether we buy their milk or not. One GM Guru said that the only way to liberate these poor cows in commercial cow farms is to offer their milk to Radha_Krishna.

 

 

This is a standard meat eatter argument. You are responsible for your own actions. Maybe you would like to take birth as a dairy cow and see how it feels from their perspective.

[gHari]

Karma controls the birth of cows and centipedes. So no matter what we do there will be 100 cows. Some will be killed, some will be used for dairy then killed. What will the world do with dairy cows if there is no dairy market? Once we start eating dairy cows the price of meat will fall and more people will eat meat.

 

If you were a cow would you prefer dying early or getting milked with cold hands?

 

Of course the complicity in karma is very complex and just how outreaching is it? For example, if I buy an orange and pay a buck, that dollar is split amongst the grower, the picker, and the truck driver who kills two armadillos on the road and who all buy steaks with their cut. Am I to endure karma for the dead cows and armadillos whose death I funded? I hope not.

[theist]

 

Karma controls the birth of cows and centipedes.

Yeah and karma controls humans also. You reap what you sow. Your callous attitude towards the suffering of the dairy cows and you willingness to contribute to their suffering will surely come back to you just like the cows and centipedes. You are not immune.

[Malati dasi]

Radhe Radhe

 

It is a fact that Bhaktivedanta Swami and some Indian Gurus had taken commercial milk. So does it mean, Theist, that you are a more "evolved" soul than them?

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

Yeah and karma controls humans also. You reap what you sow. Your callous attitude towards the suffering of the dairy cows and you willingness to contribute to their suffering will surely come back to you just like the cows and centipedes. You are not immune.

 

Such arrogant self-righteousness is sickening to the core. Give people a break.

[gHari]

 

Yeah and karma controls humans also. You reap what you sow. Your callous attitude towards the suffering of the dairy cows and you willingness to contribute to their suffering will surely come back to you just like the cows and centipedes. You are not immune.

I don't get it. If I don't pay them for the milk, they will kill the cow. Am I not saving the cow's life?

[theist]

 

I don't get it. If I don't pay them for the milk, they will kill the cow. Am I not saving the cow's life?

 

What?

 

Look it works like this. The cows first are artifically breed to meet the demand for milk. The dairy industry (like all others in a matrket economy) gauge that demand by the amount of the previous sales. Demand and supply.

 

Everytime you by commercial milk that sale is recorded as a demand that determines future production. If the demand is very great they will impregnate more cows to produce more milk. That means more male calves will be slaughtered for veal anfd more female calves will be kept as future milk slaves.

 

The cow now producing milk should have a natural life span of about 25 years. But she will not live that long because when her milk production falls below optimum levels at about five years she will be sent to be slaughtered for hamburger and a younger cow will take her place.

 

So everytime you buy a gallon of milk or pound of butter you are simultaneously placing an order for more of the same.

 

There is no other way to look at it. Buying milk from unprotected cows is DIRECTLY supporting cow slaughter.

[Malati dasi]

Theist: This is a standard meat eatter argument. You are responsible for your own actions. Maybe you would like to take birth as a dairy cow and see how it feels from their perspective.

 

And so what is our standard answer? That though eating plants also involve killing it is acceptable because, quoting from the Gita, Krishna accepts that kind of foodstuff.

 

So are we also going to argue that because Krishna likes butter, yoghurt, milk and ghee we are absolved from the result of inflicting suffering to the cows if we offer them to Him? Note that up to the point of extracting milk the cow is not being killed.

 

If you have been a lactating mother you know that it is such a relief from pain if the painful breast swollen with milk is pumped of its milk. I suppose that applies to cows too.

 

Living in this world suffering and causing suffering is inevitable. Honey from bees is a product of enslavement by human. They get hurt and suffer in the process too.

 

You being very attached to the internet, please check your computer for parts that may contain traces of gelatine. They come from dead cows you know. It's even worst.

 

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[Malati dasi]

And btw, judging from your 13,000 + posts, I'm sure you will not leave this thread unless you think you won the debate!

 

Goes to show your reasons for cyber sanga !

 

 

 

Radhe Radhe:pray:

[gHari]

 

Look it works like this. .

So you think jivas are born as cows because we say so?

 

No more McDonalds if no more milk? I don't see it quite so simple. The cows will be born some way, and the females will give milk for a while if that is profitable or they will be slaughtered by the beasts like the males are now. But the flesh-eaters will have their pound of flesh whatever the vegans do.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if the dairy demand pushes meat prices higher, forcing many to choose chicken and fish to gnaw on. Like all the rest, she has a price on her head for steaks and belts, but she is worth more as a milk producer. We'll spare her, for now.

[theist]

 

So you think the cows are born because we say so?

 

No I think the cows that are born are born due to their past karma accumulated by supporting cow slaughter.

 

Do you see how buying commercial milk implicates a person in the act of cow slaughter?

 

And forget karma. I am not talking about getting karma. I am talking about the cruelty involved. Compassion and cruelty cannot be simultaneously cultivated in the same heart.

 

Compassion leads towards Godhead. Cruelty leads to a hell.

[theist]

 

No more McDonalds if no more milk? I don't see it quite so simple. The cows will be born some way, and the females will give milk for a while if that is profitable or they will be slaughtered by the beasts like the males are now. But the flesh-eaters will have their pound of flesh whatever the vegans do.

I see you added to your post. So let me answer that also. No one said McDonalds will close down. Your becoming a lacto-vegetarian won't close them down either.

 

The point each individual must contend with is their own participation in the matter. I registered as a conscientious objector in the Viet Nam war. By doing so I never expected to war to stop because of my action.

 

Each person is responsible for their own particiption is what right and wrong.

[theist]

 

Theist: This is a standard meat eatter argument. You are responsible for your own actions. Maybe you would like to take birth as a dairy cow and see how it feels from their perspective.

 

And so what is our standard answer? That though eating plants also involve killing it is acceptable because, quoting from the Gita, Krishna accepts that kind of foodstuff.

 

So are we also going to argue that because Krishna likes butter, yoghurt, milk and ghee we are absolved from the result of inflicting suffering to the cows if we offer them to Him? Note that up to the point of extracting milk the cow is not being killed.

 

And the cows gave Krsna as a love offering. And Krsna loves the cows right? What you are saying is that Krsna loves milk products more than he loves the cows. Krsna wants that milk so bad that we must get it for Him even if cows have to be sytematically tortured and slaughtered to get it for Him.

 

I don't think that way. For me it is an issue of cow protection and not one of drinking milk or not drinking milk. You are wlling to sacrifice cow protection for milk and I am not.

 

 

If you have been a lactating mother you know that it is such a relief from pain if the painful breast swollen with milk is pumped of its milk. I suppose that applies to cows too.

 

Dairy cows are kept in that state perpetually and are pumped full of hormones to increase their milk production beyond natural limits. This causes them great distress as their milk bags become so huge they can barely walk and their milk bags often become infected because of it. That is called mastitis and it means that pus gets into the milk. Did you know there is a legally acceptable amount of pus that is in all milk?

 

None for me thanks>

 

 

Living in this world suffering and causing suffering is inevitable. Honey from bees is a product of enslavement by human. They get hurt and suffer in the process too.

 

You are correct and that is why I gave up honey. I don't buy it. I also boycott silk. It may be considered ritually pure but because it is a product of so much suffering I consider it unwearable like leather or fur.

 

 

You being very attached to the internet, please check your computer for parts that may contain traces of gelatine. They come from dead cows you know. It's even worst.

 

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Yes animal products are everywhere and it is impossible to escape using some form them in modern life. But not just modern life even in a totally so-called natural environment, a so-called Garden of Eden on earth where everyone is a vegan and living on fallen fruit and nuts from trees one would have to step on insects just to go and pick the fruit off the ground. !00% ahimsa is simply not possible in the material world. Afterall this is Martyaloka, the land of death. No place for gentle people but we must do our best.

 

And it does seem ironic for a society that preaches so loudly about cow protection in particular some devotees are so cavalier about the cow suffering that went into the milk they drink.

[theist]

 

And btw, judging from your 13,000 + posts, I'm sure you will not leave this thread unless you think you won the debate!

 

Goes to show your reasons for cyber sanga !

 

 

 

Radhe Radhe:pray:

 

Well I guess you got me pegged alright. Can't fool you Malati.

[gHari]

 

No I think the cows that are born are born due to their past karma accumulated by supporting cow slaughter.

 

Do you see how buying commercial milk implicates a person in the act of cow slaughter?

 

And forget karma. I am not talking about getting karma. I am talking about the cruelty involved. Compassion and cruelty cannot be simultaneously cultivated in the same heart.

 

Compassion leads towards Godhead. Cruelty leads to a hell.

If I don't buy her milk, they will kill her. Killing seems more cruel to me.

 

I used to see the cows everyday on the way to work when I lived in the country. They looked content. They were there because I bought their milk, and offered it to Sri Krsna. Had I not bought their milk, they would be dead.

 

Maybe it's different in the big city ... not too many cows around, but our local farmers band together to get the juice to us.

[theist]

 

If I don't buy her milk, they will kill her. Killing seems more cruel to me.

 

I used to see the cows everyday on the way to work when I lived in the country. They looked content. They were there because I bought their milk, and offered it to Sri Krsna. Had I not bought their milk, they would be dead.

 

Maybe it's different in the big city ... not too many cows around, but our local farmers band together to get the juice to us.

 

NO you still don't get it. Please reread the opening article and also my post on how it works.

[theist]

 

Milk Production And Cruelty to Cattle

 

by Sridhar Raman

Posted March 11, 2008

There has been some discussion about vegan versus vegetarian diets and which is superior — morally, spiritually and health-wise. Here are some points that might be useful to consider.

Most large-scale modern farms treat their animals cruelly. Cows are injected with massive doses of antibiotics and growth hormones, and they are crammed into very small spaces. A lot of them get crippled because their legs can't hold their unnatural weight due to the growth hormones, and many become diseased because of their living conditions. These are very stressful conditions, and stress is known to produce toxins within the body. The milk produced from cows in large-scale farms not only promotes cruelty to the animals but is also unhealthy to ourselves.

For lacto-vegetarians, a better alternative would be to buy organic milk and milk products from farms that allow animals to roam free- range for at least for a good part of the day and that provide decent living spaces to them. These farms are typically family-owned and operate as a small-scale business. They often encourage you to write to them to obtain information about their farming practices and philosophy (check the labels on the container for contact information). Some of these people come across as conscientious human beings who are committed to treating their animals more humanely.

However, there are some downsides to this alternative. Cost is a factor, in that organic milk and milk products are more expensive than regular ones. More importantly, these farms must send male calves to the veal industry and the older cows for slaughter in order to survive against market forces. If they don't, they will have to shut down.

A vegan diet which satisfies all the nutrient requirements and contributes to physical well-being is the best option. If one is unable to follow a vegan diet but wishes to minimize one's participation in the cruelty to cows, one could do these three things: buy milk from organic and small-scale farms that treat their animals humanely, use milk sparingly as needed and, when possible, use soy milk as a substitute.

We can go on endlessly discussing and rationalizing about how Krishna liked his milk and how Prabhupada encouraged milk consumption, but ultimately, it all comes down to our conscience and how much compassion we are willing to extend — both to suffering animals and to own well-being. The only place where controversy exists is within ourselves.

[gHari]

Humor me. I'm not an idiot. Just tell me where my logic is wrong. It must be wrong, otherwise you are not doing your share to save the cows by giving the farmer a reason not to kill the cow. And it is I who can feel justified belittling your primitive uncaring lifestyle, but hopefully I will have more class and humility than to be so crass.

 

That nonsense about demand causing more cows to kill forgets that the flesh-eaters will make their cows however they need. If not as a dairy by-product, then the mother-butchers will raise them on their own ranches. Billy-Bob will not go without his daily blood.

 

I cannot accept that all cows must be slaughtered immediately.

[theist]

You are justifying your participation. Similar reasoning can be claimed by a vegetarian who transports the cows to slaughter. He can say, "they will be killed anyway and somebody else will drive the truck so I am not responsible." But I have read and so have you, that one who transports, sells etc. the meat is also cupable.

 

You will do what you want just as I will. We both will be held responsible for what we do personally and all the rationalizations concerning our actions that cause suffering to others needlessly won't mean damn in the end.

 

You put your $ down to support the dairy industry so to that extent they work for you. You got some responsibility for what they do rather you like it or not.

 

Some devotees like to pretend they are living in a Krsna book world where all the cows and calves are happily providing milk for Govinda and Balarama and Mother Yashoda with the gopis are churning butter during the day.

 

So much sahajiyism as far as I am concerned. Kanistha devotees (us) don't live in that reality except in our own pretenses. We live in a much harsher dimension and are still subject to the karmic laws which rule this place.

[gHari]

But the bottom line is: in your world every cow born is killed as soon as someone gets hungry for it.

 

The answer is to reform the dairy industry. If we destroy it, then there is no infrastructure left to try to save at least some cows for some period in a humane way. All the farms will become ranches. It will be a major setback. All cows will die.

 

Very soon the earth has to come to its senses. When we run out of money we are forced to become detached - this is about to happen to planet earth. It's not far away. When the oil is gone we will need the male cows to farm the land. When the rivers and skies are too polluted we will have to sit down quietly and rethink our position here. Maybe they'll just kill all the others like rats in a cage although I'd like to think we're more noble than that. Yet, we talk of Iran as though that's really a possibility, so I have some doubts about the humanity of man.

[meenakshiamman]

Wow, even though I am not completely vegan at the moment, I don't understand such hostility towards it.

 

This is an issue mostly about commercial milk...especially in America, Canada and England. If you know of a good company that you personally trust to get quality milk from (and who treat their cows decently) then drink it.

 

Otherwise, why would you contribute to one of the most corrupt industries on earth as the mass meat industry?

 

This isn't just about "saving the cows" but also about helping the planet. Going vegan also helps the environment as the meat industry is a major contributor to global warming. Also, the meat industries in America (I can't speak for other countries at the moment) are running mostly on illegal immigrant workers....whom they can get away with abusing and severely underpaying.

I can't believe how much people take all of this for granted. Being vegan is not very difficult, nor extreme. Like all things, if you WANT to do it, you can.

 

We have to end this corrupt cycle somehow. At the very least you can say to yourself "I don't have anything to do with this."