Is idol worship allowed in Hinduism?

[Mazhar]

 

First of all this quote isn't from the Yajur Veda, but the Isa Upanishad (likewise I can not find any of the other verses you quoted from the Yajur Veda, are you sure you are qouting the right scripture, as I don't recall the Yajur Veda having 40 books), and I've never seen it translated in the manner you have posted. Rather I find the verse translated as- Or of a similar variation. I'd be curious though to see if anyone has seen a translation similar to the one Mazhar posted.

 

I searched the web for you, go here and see the 9th verse.

[Samia]

 

I quoted your scriptures, I think I am right and if u think I am wrong then correct me, it is ur duty to correct me as a hindu.

 

Well considering you can't even spell I doubt you even have a minimal grasp on the quotes you posted from a well known propaganda site. To start off it is You not U it is also your not ur. Now that we have some basic spelling out of the way lets correct your first and most pressing assumption, it is not anyones duty here to correct your "misconceptions" I mean propaganda. If your " concern " for our souls was genuine you would have at least used your own words, not the same hack job that is beng sent out to every high traffic Hindu discussion site and mailing list. You are here to convert and ( as your faith allows ) being decietful in your purpose. You slipped up, as often happens when people are being dishonest, and presented your true purpose with the text I quoted.

[Baobabtree]

 

I searched the web for you, go here and see the 9th verse.

I stand corrected, however you still only given us verse nine. Let's see what verse 10 and 11 say

 

 

10 One fruit, they say, from Sambhava, another from Asambhava.

Thus from the sages have we heard who have declared this

lore to us.

11 The man who knows Sambhûti and Vinâsa simultaneously,

He, by Vinâsa passing death, gains by Sambhûti endless life.

Now, unless you (or someone else) knows of another meaning for Sambhuti and Vinasa, I'm going to asume they mean knowledge and ignorance, and this verse means the same as the one found in the Isa Upanishad.

[Mazhar]

 

If your " concern " for our souls was genuine you would have at least used your own words, not the same hack job that is beng sent out to every high traffic Hindu discussion site and mailing list. You are here to convert and ( as your faith allows ) being decietful in your purpose. You slipped up, as often happens when people are being dishonest, and presented your true purpose with the text I quoted.

 

Sister, If I use my own words you will not believe me, so i quoted your scriptures that u considered to be word of God, whats wrong in doing that?

 

I am not deceitful in my purpose, I am completely honest.

[theist]

 

Brother thiest, it is illogical to compare the sound form with idol form. You say that we can hear sound, cannot see it: we can see idol and cannot hear it. So, you saying that we cannot hear idol is illogical as idol can not speak nor it can help you. As regard sound form, we make the sound ourselves, from our own mouth, we do not create instruments or play instruments for the sounds. So the difference is that our sound in natural i.e. given by God but idol is not natural. So we call Allah's name with the sound which Allah gave us. But that is not the case with the idol.

 

God also gives the hands to carve and the wood to carve.

 

Well we will have to agree to disagree.

 

Hare Krishna

[Samia]

 

Sister, If I use my own words you will not believe me, so i quoted your scriptures that u considered to be word of God, whats wrong in doing that?

 

I am not deceitful in my purpose, I am completely honest.

 

1. I am not your sister so don't patronise me.

2. The wrong is in your intent, you did not happen upon these writings then seek out wisdom due to a yearning in your heart. You came here to do your part in the mass " lets spam the Hindus " campain that is flooding so many sites currently. You know nothing about our scriptures and have simply come to stir the pot. You have no decency and no authority to comment on scriptures of which you lack even the basic understanding. It would be much the same thing if I went to a Muslim site and declared the method of worship followed there to be false, but I am much to decent to do that. All you have done is take a few lines , without context of course, and announced yourself an expert. The true nectar of our scriptures would be wasted on you.

[Mazhar]

 

God also gives the hands to carve and the wood to carve.

 

Well we will have to agree to disagree.

 

Hare Krishna

 

do u mean that you make idols with wood, so wood is natural. Is that what u mean?

[Mazhar]

 

I stand corrected, however you still only given us verse nine. Let's see what verse 10 and 11 say

 

Now, unless you (or someone else) knows of another meaning for Sambhuti and Vinasa, I'm going to asume they mean knowledge and ignorance, and this verse means the same as the one found in the Isa Upanishad.

 

The meaning of Sambhuti in verse 9 means created things like chair, table, idos etc...

[Mazhar]

 

1. I am not your sister so don't patronise me.

2. The wrong is in your intent, you did not happen upon these writings then seek out wisdom due to a yearning in your heart. You came here to do your part in the mass " lets spam the Hindus " campain that is flooding so many sites currently. You know nothing about our scriptures and have simply come to stir the pot. You have no decency and no authority to comment on scriptures of which you lack even the basic understanding. It would be much the same thing if I went to a Muslim site and declared the method of worship followed there to be false, but I am much to decent to do that. All you have done is take a few lines , without context of course, and announced yourself an expert. The true nectar of our scriptures would be wasted on you.

 

I told this before that If u think i am wrong regarding ur scriptures then correct me. I am here for a discussion and understanding not to criticize and fight. You are right that I know nothing of Hinduism and you know way better than me, thats why i am telling u to correct me if i am wrong. If u think i am quoting out of context then u give the context to me.

[Samia]

 

I told this before that If u think i am wrong regarding ur scriptures then correct me. I am here for a discussion and understanding not to criticize and fight. You are right that I know nothing of Hinduism and you know way better than me, thats why i am telling u to correct me if i am wrong. If u think i am quoting out of context then u give the context to me.

 

1.To quote you directly

 

"Note: I apologize in advance if this hearts any Hindu’s feelings. My intention is not to heart but to say the truth which is my duty to tell and your right to know. I am only quoting Hindu scriptures here.".

 

So which statement is correct ? Your original one or the retreat you offered up ?

 

2. You are telling me to correct you ? Who are you to tell me to do anything. You are the one who is simply participating in the spamming of Hindu groups with the same uninformed propaganda.

[Mazhar]

 

1.To quote you directly

 

 

So which statement is correct ? Your original one or the retreat you offered up ?

 

 

 

Do u find any difference in it?

 

 

2. You are telling me to correct you ? Who are you to tell me to do anything. You are the one who is simply participating in the spamming of Hindu groups with the same uninformed propaganda.

 

I am not spamming. I didnt opene any thread in the forum other than this and I am not criticizing hinduism and I am quoting correct verses of hindu scriptures.

[theist]

 

do u mean that you make idols with wood, so wood is natural. Is that what u mean?

 

Your objection was sound that forms the name of God comes from God via the human vocal chords so the sound of God is different from the Murti of God. I just mentioned that wood also comes from God as well as the hands to do the carving and the ability to do the carving.

 

But this is not so important really. I don't keep Deities in my home personally. You needn't either. Keep praying in whatever direction you are inclined to and reciting the Holy Name of Allah.

 

One request though. Please stop butchering helpless animals for food. Surely becoming compassionate towards other living beings and not wanting to increase their suffering can only help us advance towards true God consciousness.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

 

 

 

 

Brother we may get problems in our life because of ur deeds but Quran says that this life is the test for the hereafter and we all are undergoing a test. Allah examines different people with different things, e.g. Allah gives some one wealth then He sees that whether the prson surf it in the way of Allah or not. Some one is poor, not because his deeds in this world (as I said it may be) but if his deeds are good and he is in problem that this is that test for him. Quran also says that we will surely test all of you with hunger, fear of death.

As I said your understanding of God is very shallow. No human father will test his child in the way you describe what to speak of God who is so merciful.

 

 

 

I quoted your scriptures, I think I am right and if u think I am wrong then correct me, it is ur duty to correct me as a hindu.

When you think you are so right, no matter what I say or any one else for that matter, will not make any difference. I have no such duty to correct a crusader whose motives are anything but sincere.

 

You have not quoted yajur Veda but a translation which can be faulty. You will have to go learn Sanskrit under a pundit who can impart true meaning of the entire Veda, just one or two sloka out context can not clear your misconception. So if you are serious go learn for your self under proper guidance.

 

I give you a clue Sambhûti means manifest and Asambhûti' means unmanifest

 

Knowing simultaneously the two one becomes immortal.

 

As I say you want to know rocket science but you have not given up your dummy yet.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

[Mazhar]

 

Pranam

I give you a clue Sambhûti means manifest and Asambhûti' means unmanifest

 

Knowing simultaneously the two one becomes immortal.

 

 

 

Sambhuti may mean manifest in the 11th or 10th verse, but in the 9th verse it surely means created things. There is no word in English like "unmanifest" . Asambhuti in 9th verse means natural things like air, water, etc.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

 

 

Sambhuti may mean manifest in the 11th or 10th verse, but in the 9th verse it surely means created things. There is no word in English like "unmanifest" . Asambhuti in 9th verse means natural things like air, water, etc.

 

Thats why i said for you to go learn Sanskrit or approach a pundit who can teach you the real meaning of the words. you are bringing your own vallue of the words. Prifix a in front of Sambhuti means the opposite. If you read one verse in isolation with twisted knowledge of Sanskrit, there is no chance for you to understand the meaning, that is if you are really interested.

 

Since you did not resapond to rest of my post, i can take it you agree.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Baobabtree]

The meaning of Sambhuti in verse 9 means created things like chair, table, idos etc...

Ok how do you know this? Have you studied Sanskrit who has told you it means manifest? And if Sambhuti means manifest what does Vinasa mean?

[Shivaduta]

 

Brother, if everyone will choose his own direction then where is the unity? Islam is the religion of peace. When we offer salaah, we stand shoulder to shoulder so that we love each other, and we can stand like that when we have same direction.

 

Other thing is that we only face towards kaaba for salaah i.e. namaaz and if you want to ask something from Allah or pray to him, here pray means to ask for something, then you can do it in any direction.

 

 

 

when speaking to ones father do brothers need to stand united in one direction and call him in one single format...

 

unity is not for humans humanity is a creative approach to understanding god. what the prophet saw none have seen... some see more and some see less... some are blind and some have senses better than others...

 

unity is not a approach for peace but is a militiristic apprach and is always warlike...

 

Hitler united germany against the world...

 

"but one thing i like about this discussion is" that mazhar is begining to read the vedas and quote from them... hopefully our brother mazhar will realise the wisdom of hinduism which has been acquired over tens of thousands of years... and god willing he will realise the fickleness of all the younger religions which have existed for a mere thousand years...

 

the younger religions have come and vanished without leaving a trace and let us see 500 years from now...

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam all

 

 

p. 304

 

BOOK THE FORTIETH.

 

ENVELOPED by the Lord must be This All—each thing that

moves on earth.

With that renounced enjoy thyself. Covet no wealth of

any man.

2 One, only doing Karma here, should wish to live a hundred

years.

No way is there for thee but this. So Karma cleaveth not

to man.

3 Aye, to the Asuras belong those worlds enwrapt in blinding

gloom.

To them, when life on earth is done, depart the men who

kill the Self.

p. 305

4 Motionless, one, swifter than Mind—the Devas failed to

o’ertake it speeding on before them.

It, standing still, outstrips the others running. Herein Both

Mâtarisvan stablish Action.

5 It moveth; it is motionless. It is far distant; it is near.

It is within This All; and it surrounds This All externally.

6 The man who in his Self beholds all creatures and all things

that be,

And in all beings sees his Self, thence doubts no longer,

ponders not.

7 When, in the man who clearly knows, Self hath become all

things that are,

p. 306

What wilderment, what grief is there in him who sees the

One alone?

8 He hath attained unto the Bright, Bodiless, Woundless,

Sinewless, the Pure which evil hath not pierced.

Far-sighted, wise, encompassing, he self-existent hath

prescribed aims, as propriety demands, unto the

everlasting Years.

9 Deep into shade of blinding gloom fall Asambhûti's

worshippers.

They sink to darkness deeper yet who on Sambhûti are

intent.

10 One fruit, they say, from Sambhava, another from Asambhava.

Thus from the sages have we heard who have declared this

lore to us.

11 The man who knows Sambhûti and Vinâsa simultaneously,

He, by Vinâsa passing death, gains by Sambhûti endless life.

p. 307

12 To blinding darkness go the men who make a cult of

Nescience.

The devotees of Science enter darkness that is darker still.

13 Different is the fruit, they say, of Science and of Nescience.

Thus from the sages have we heard who have declared this

lore to us.

14 The man who knoweth well these two, Science and Nescience,

combined,

O’ercoming death by Nescience by Science gaineth endless

life.

15 My breath reach everlasting Air! In ashes let my body end.

OM! Mind, remember thou; remember thou my sphere;

remember thou my deeds.

p. 308

16 By goodly path lead us to riches, Agni, thou God who

knowest all our works and wisdom.

Remove the sin that makes us stray and wander: most

ample adoration will we bring thee.

17 The Real's face is hidden by a vessel formed of golden light.

The Spirit yonder in the Sun, the Spirit dwelling there am I.

OM! Heaven! Brahma!

 

 

Now I am no expert in anything let alone Sanskrit and since the yajur veda above has no original Sanskrit there is no way we can verify if the translation does justice to what it intends to convey, but still let us consider what we have.

 

There is a great wisdom here, if one is honest, can understand it has nothing to do with murti puja rejection or otherwise. Verse no 5 says it all.

 

Like Prahlad, when asked if he was in the pillar he says father he is every where.

 

If god can appear from pillar what is so difficult for him to appear in his murti form?

 

Verse 11 answers number 9.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[Guest]

What do muslims concentrate on when they close their eyes then?? Whats the point of closing your eyes when you have no fixed image to concentrate upon?

[Mazhar]

 

when speaking to ones father do brothers need to stand united in one direction and call him in one single format...

 

unity is not for humans humanity is a creative approach to understanding god. what the prophet saw none have seen... some see more and some see less... some are blind and some have senses better than others...

 

unity is not a approach for peace but is a militiristic apprach and is always warlike...

 

Hitler united germany against the world...

 

 

When you become a muslim with Allah's grace, you will know that the direction is for the unity.

 

 

"but one thing i like about this discussion is" that mazhar is begining to read the vedas and quote from them... hopefully our brother mazhar will realise the wisdom of hinduism which has been acquired over tens of thousands of years... and god willing he will realise the fickleness of all the younger religions which have existed for a mere thousand years...

 

the younger religions have come and vanished without leaving a trace and let us see 500 years from now...

 

First of all Islam is not a younger religion. It is old than hinduism and any othe religion. It is there since the man came on earth.

[Mazhar]

 

Pranam all

Now I am no expert in anything let alone Sanskrit and since the yajur veda above has no original Sanskrit there is no way we can verify if the translation does justice to what it intends to convey, but still let us consider what we have.

 

There is a great wisdom here, if one is honest, can understand it has nothing to do with murti puja rejection or otherwise. Verse no 5 says it all.

 

Like Prahlad, when asked if he was in the pillar he says father he is every where.

 

If god can appear from pillar what is so difficult for him to appear in his murti form?

 

Verse 11 answers number 9.

 

 

The meaning of sambhuti in verse 9 and 11 are different, if you ead honestly the verse 9, it says that to whome the sambhuti is intent (means they worship sambhuti) they are in deeper darkness.

 

If you say that sambhuti in both the verses is same then tell me the meanings of sambhuti.

 

I have read the verse 5 and i think it is not related to verse 9, it generally says that God is everywhere. Further in 9th verse, it prohibits you to worship asambhuti and sambhuti.

[Mazhar]

Dear brother daas ka daas,

 

we close our eyes to remember Allah, to think of Allah and we concentrate on the concepts given in Quran of Allah and etc. There are many veeses in Quran describing and praising Allah but the most concise and best is in chapter which says:

 

"Say He is Allah, one and only;

Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

He begets not, Nor is He begotten;

And there is none Like unto Him.

[Sunds]

In Hinduism behind every idol has a story, a mythology, a belief , some custom etc. That is what makes Hinduism so very unique. When we see a Krishna idol, immediately our thought goes to Vishnu Avatar, Mahabharata, Leelas,Mathura, Vrindavan etc. Every idol has a story. Similarly Lord Rama's idol has a different story. When we worship this idol we are acknowledging the story behind it and thereby the greatness implied.

[Samia]

 

When you become a muslim with Allah's grace, you will know that the direction is for the unity.

 

OK so lets see, so you are saying one must be a Muslim to fully understand ? Yet you come here and pretend to have an understanding of our scriptures. Boy this routine is approaching the level of belly laughs that can be had watching Larry the Cable Guy. As far as becoming Muslim, lan astaslem !

[Shivaduta]

 

First of all Islam is not a younger religion. It is old than hinduism and any othe religion. It is there since the man came on earth.

 

What history tells us is that islam is a young religion. Prophet Mohammed was born sometime between 570-571 A.D.

so unless u are talking of "some other islam" it is a young religion in comparison to hinduism... which has existed forever...

 

 

When you become a muslim with Allah's grace, you will know that the direction is for the unity.

 

 

I feel no reason for becoming a member of a religion which has just one stone and one direction to pray to...

 

imagine if ever "satan" wishes to destroy islam all he will have to do is use a single nuclear device on the stone "KAABA" and the religion will have nothing to back up the faith...

 

Whereas anyone wishing to destroy hinduism could destroy the world "and believe me many invaders have tried and not succeded" and still hinduism will prevail.