Misuse Of Free Will In Causal Ocean?

[Beggar]

 

 

 

PS: an inadvance:

"thank me, you're welcomed, my honor and pleasure to serve you up, each and every time"

Monsieur, why are you trying to "serve me up"? In the South of France before the War they used to say, "veuillez le servir aux cannibales." If this is what you mean? Now to quote Spanky when he was cornered by the Wild Man from Borneo, "I don't taste so good, my mother says I'm spoiled."

 

I am not finding the quotes now, but the Lord Brahma in each universe is the most pious soul. Sometimes when there is no one qualified Lord Visnu takes the post of Brahma. The Brahma in this universe is special for he is the head of the Brahma Madhva Gaudiya Sampradaya. Not every Brahma is as special or a devotee of Lord Krsna.

 

2/19/41 ---"mon cher seigneur, un qui vous attend sincèrement pour accorder votre pitié sans cause sur lui, tout le moment souffrant patiemment les réactions de ses obeisance respectueux passés de méfaits et d'offre vous avec son coeur, mots et corps, est sûrement habilité à la dévotion, parce que c'est devenu sa réclamation légitime". SB 10.14.8

[bhaktajan]

Trying to "serve you up" to Krishna.

[Beggar]

 

Trying to "serve you up" to Krishna.

Yes, but first you have to work on your serve. Too many double faults!

[Beggar]

 

 

Question Concerning the Fall, No Fall of the Jiva

BY: BALAVIDYA DASA

 

Mar 11, USA (SUN) —

On another topic concerning a different previous posting, "

The Fall, No Fall of the Jiva

", one devotee, Amar Puri, has requested an answer.

 

It is an interesting question:

 

• "I wonder what Balavidya Dasa or any other learned person has to say and interpret or contemplate about Text 18.63 of the Bhagavad-gita, page 832, the translation of which reads:
  
  
  "Thus I have explained to you the most confidential of all knowledge. Deliberate on this fully, and then do what you wish to do."
  
  
  Does the above translation not explain that the Jiva has a free will to use and exercise any time, place and circumstances, regardless if may be in Goloka Vrindavan face to face with Shri Krishna?"
  
  

 

Answer:

Yes, the jiva does have free will in all time, place and circumstances. However, situated in Goloka in krsna-prema he does not misuse his free will, being pure, situated in knowledge, and protected by the hladini-shakti, Srimati Radharani Herself.

 

In a lecture, Caitanya-caritamrta Adi 7.108, 2.18.1967, Srila Prabhupada explains this point:

 

• Bhaktijana:
  When the souls [in Goloka] that were never conditioned at all, do they also have the independence?
  
  
  Prabhupada:
  Yes, but they have not misused. They know that "I am meant for Krsna's service," and they are happy in Krsna's service.

 

So the souls in Goloka never fall as they know "I am meant for Krsna's service" and they are "happy". This happiness is the bliss bestowed upon them by Srimati Radharani. In such blessed purity, they never contemplate unconstitutional activities, such as rebellion against the supremacy of Sri Krsna, and resultantly, an attempt to be an independent enjoyer. They are nitya-siddha, eternally perfected.

 

This

eternal

perfection is not subject to change, as quoted in the aforesaid posting:

 

As Srila Prabhupada, summarizes in his Srimad-Bhagavatam. 3.3.26, purport:

 

• "The nitya-siddha devotees never fall down to the region of the material atmosphere even though they sometimes come into the material plane to execute the mission of the Lord."
  
  

 

Also: Purport, Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.15.48:

 

• "From the Vedic scriptures it is understood that sometimes even Brahma and Indra fall down, but a devotee in the transcendental abode of the Lord never falls."
  
  

 

Furthermore, purport, Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.11.12:

 

• "The eternally liberated living beings are in Vaikuntha jagat and they never fall into the material world."
  
  

 

As Srila Prabhupada concludes this topic:

 

• "The conclusion is that no one falls from the spiritual world, or Vaikuntha planet, for it is the eternal abode." (Srila Prabhupada, purport, Sb. 3.16.26)
  
  

 

Therefore, from where does the jiva fall then, one may ask:

 

The Vedas describe the fall of the jiva from his devotionally nascent position within the margin between the material and spiritual worlds that is the Casual Ocean after emanation from Maha-Visnu. In the Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad, 4.3.9, we find:

 

<center>

tasya va etasya purunasya dve eva sthane bhavata

idam ca paraloka-sthanam ca sandhyam trtiyam

svapna-sthanam tasmin sandhye sthane tisthan ete

ubhe sthane pasyati idam ca paraloka-sthanam ca

</center>

"The jiva has access to two places, both of which he may seek, this material world and the spiritual realm.

He is situated in svapna-sthanam, the dream-like third state, on the margin of these two worlds [the Casual Ocean]

. From that middle position he is able to see both the material and the spiritual worlds."

 

"Further, the following statement from the Brhad-aranyaka Upanisad, 4.3.18, describes the nature of the marginal position of the jiva:

<center>tad yaths mahs matsya ubhe kule'

nusancarati purvam ca param caivam

evsyam purusa etsv ubhav antav

anusancarati svapnantam ca buddhantam ca </center>

"The symptoms of the marginal existence are like those of a huge aquatic who is capable of living on both the eastern and western sides of the river at his own will. Similarly,

the jiva soul, situated within the waters of the Causal Ocean

, which lies between the material and spiritual worlds, is able to reside in both the dream world of matter and the spiritual world of divine wakefulness."

 

As we see above, the Upanishad explains that the jiva chooses either the material or spiritual world "at his own will". Thus he misuses his independence in the Casual Ocean, not, as Srila Prabhupada explains in all the quotes above, from within the Supreme Abode of the Lord.

The relevant point is that, within the Casual Ocean, between the material and spiritual creation, the jiva, situated in the devotionally nascent condition of santa-rasa, is not fortified by the hladini-sakti. Active devotional service impelled by affection for the Supreme Lord has not yet awoken. Thus he is in a spiritually weak position. In this condition he may choose to rebel against the perceived supremacy of the Supreme Lord and thus fall to the material energy and pursue the illusory goal of competitive independent enjoyment. On the other hand, he may surrender to the Supreme Lord in affection and thus enter the spiritual planets for active service in the four higher primary rasas: servitude, fraternity, parental and conjugal. In such service, he becomes fortified by the cit and hladini-shaktis, i.e. knowledge and happiness (bliss). Thus he attains the pure, sublime status of nitya-siddha, eternally perfected. This eternal perfection is also available for those souls who have fallen into the material world should they practice devotional service under the guidance of guru, sadhu and sastra, faithfully.

We hope this is found helpful,

Your servant,

Balavidya dasa

 

[suchandra]

 

Srila Prabhupada said that pure devotees do not misuse their free will. And why should they? As Kulapavana prabhu pointed out, Krsna is all-attractive. Krsna-prema is the perfection of life. And in Goloka Vrndavana, prema is ever-increasing. It is what the soul hankers for, and having attained this, there is no question about becoming "curious" for other so-called "higher" pleasures in life. No one falls from the level of prema. It is possible at bhava, (as in the case of Bharata Maharaja, becoming attached to a deer), but this example is simply given to illustrate the need for not stopping at bhava, but to perfect that bhava by attaining prema. Non-liberated souls who have not yet tasted the indescribable joy of krsna-prema are subject to misusing their free will.

 

Those who are under the impression that pure devotees in Goloka Vrndavana can fall from prema, or can lose that prema while sleeping or daydreaming have not yet grasped, even intellectually, what krsna-prema is all about.

At least you agree that we have fallen in this material world and are not like Kula thinks here for vacation from feeling terribly bored in the maha-tattva.

Since the maha-tattva is already the material prisonhouse, we fall from the prisonhouse into the prisonhouse? You never saw Vaikuntha but are punished to live in the material world? You never have been in Vaikuntha and you didnt desire to go to Vaikuntha while being born in the maha-tattva. Therefore you were punished to live in the material world?

But how can you desire in the maha-tattva to go to Vaikuntha if you don't know what Vaikuntha is?

[Beggar]

 

At least you agree that we have fallen in this material world and are not like Kula thinks here for vacation from feeling terribly bored in the maha-tattva.

Since the maha-tattva is already the material prisonhouse, we fall from the prisonhouse into the prisonhouse? You never saw Vaikuntha but are punished to live in the material world? You never have been in Vaikuntha and you didnt desire to go to Vaikuntha while being born in the maha-tattva. Therefore you were punished to live in the material world?

But how can you desire in the maha-tattva to go to Vaikuntha if you don't know what Vaikuntha is?

 

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

??????????????????????????...............................................................

I think that you are completely misreading Vedesu's post.

[suchandra]

 

???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

??????????????????????????...............................................................

I think that you are completely misreading Vedesu's post.

 

No, you have no answer to what I'm saying. If we start our existence in the maha-tattva without having knowledge about Vaikuntha how you can be punished to live in the material world?

[Beggar]

 

No, you have no answer to what I'm saying. If we start our existence in the maha-tattva without having knowledge about Vaikuntha how you can be punished to live in the material world?

Of course there is no answer to what you are saying. the unmanifest aggregate of the material elements is known as the mahat-tattva. Consequently it is impossible for the jiva to start it's existence in the mahat-tattva and I don't believe from what what I've read on this thread that anyone is writing such a thing. Vedesu and Kulapavana are both saying that the jiva is originating at the marginal position, which is the same as the Viraja River. The Viraja separates material and spiritual existence.

[Kulapavana]

 

At least you agree that we have fallen in this material world and are not like Kula thinks here for vacation from feeling terribly bored in the maha-tattva.

Since the maha-tattva is already the material prisonhouse, we fall from the prisonhouse into the prisonhouse?

 

You should start by realizing that brahmajyoti and maha-tattva are not the same. You enter the maha-tattva from the brahmajyoti. That is the fall.

 

It is a lot easier for me to believe that I got bored existing in bramajyoti, then to believe I got bored while living in Vaikuntha, or more absurdly, that I got envious of Krsna while living in Goloka. Like where did this envy come from, if we are pure and perfect there?

[Svarupa]

 

 

Photo Mayapur March 10, 2008

 

 

 

 

Letter to Madhudvisa (then Swami) in Australia 1972

 

 

Srila Prabhupada - "We never had any occasion when we were separated from Krsna. Just like one man is dreaming and he forgets himself. In dream he creates himself in different forms: now I am the King discussing like that. This creation of himself is as seer and subject matter or seen, two things. But as soon as the dream is over, the "seen" disappears.

 

But the seer remains. Now he is in his original position (with Krsna eternally in Goloka).

 

Our separation from Krsna is like that. We dream this body and so many relationships with other things. First the attachment comes to enjoy sense gratification. Even with Krsna desire for sense gratification is there.

There is a dormant attitude for forgetting Krsna and creating an atmosphere for enjoying independently. Just like at the edge of the beach, sometimes the water covers, sometimes there is dry sand, coming and going. Our position is like that, sometimes covered, sometimes free, just like at the edge of the tide. As soon as we forget, immediately the illusion is there. Just like as soon as we sleep, dream is there.

We cannot say therefore that we are not with Krsna.

As soon as we try to become Lord, immediately we are covered by Maya.

Formerly we were with Krsna in His lila or sport.

But this covering of Maya may be of very, very, very, very long duration, therefore many creations are coming and going.

Due to this long period of time it is sometimes said that we are ever-conditioned. But his long duration of time becomes very insignificant when one actually comes to Krsna consciousness.

Just like in a dream we are thinking very long time, but as soon as we awaken we look at our watch and see it has been a moment only.

Just like with Krsna's friends, they were kept asleep for one year by Brahma, but when they woke up and Krsna returned before them, they considered that only a moment had passed". Letter Madhudvisa in Australia 1972

 

Srila Prabhupada - “Originally everyone is nitya-siddha. Nitya-siddha krsna-bhakti ’sadhya’ kabhu naya sravanadi-suddha-citte karaye udaya Every living entity originally nitya-siddha“.Mayapur, February 18, 1977-“The living entity should become purified and regain his svarūpa, his original identity” SB 8.24.48

Srila Prabhupada - "Svarupa, or “one’s own form.” Purport Bhagavad Gita as it is 4.6

[Beggar]

 

The devotees of the Lord do not misuse their freedom. (Bhag. 1.8.23, purp.)

The living beings are given as much freedom as they deserve, and misuse of that freedom is the cause of suffering. The devotees of the Lord do not misuse their freedom, and therefore they are the good sons of the Lord. (Bhag. 1.8.28, purp.)

A pure devotee of the Lord is so purified in his heart that he cannot leave the shelter of Lord Krsna in any circumstances. There is no self-interest in such service. (Bhag. 2.8.6, purp.)

Bhaktijana:

When the souls that were never conditioned at all..., do they also have the independence?

Prabhupada:

Yes, but they have not misused. They know that "I am meant for Krsna's service," and they are happy in Krsna's service. (670218CC.SF)

 

[Svarupa]

 

You should start by realizing that brahmajyoti and maha-tattva are not the same. You enter the maha-tattva from the brahmajyoti. That is the fall.

 

No, the living entity, as their secondary baddha-jiva consciousness, enters the mahat-tattva, which is in one cornor of the Brahmajyoti or Spiritual Sky, coming down OR ORIGINATING from Vaikuntha. In other words, THE LIVING ENTITY is simultaneously their eternal svarupa bodily identity in the Vaikuntha portion of the Brahmajyoti or Spiritual Sky while they are dreaming as the baddha-jiva that enters the mahat-tattva or material creation.

 

The mahat tattva takes up 25% of the Spiritual Sky and is under the control of time (past, present and future)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Above is Maha-Vishnu and His mahat-tattva temporary creation that takes up 25% of the Spiritual Sky or Brahmajyoti

 

[Beggar]

 

The impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti is the individual baddha-jivas in a dreamless state of consciousness attained ONLY after passing through the various bodily mahat-tattva vessels provided by Maha-Vishnu.

 

I don't think that you can find a quote that will back this up

 

 

To the contrary, India is a corrupt place full of people masquerading as devotees of Krsna who never understood their own Vedas, that is until Srila Prabhupada came to America and with his Western disciples, again restarted the bonafide teachings of Vedanta back in India.

 

Do you really believe that Srila Prabhupada would write that Srila Sridhar Maharaja was his siksa guru if Srila Sridhar Maharaja did not have the proper idea of the origin of the soul? I don't think so. Do you really believe that the only other person according to Srila Prabhupada who could have translated the Bhagavatam into English, namely Srila Sridhar Maharaja, would have the wrong understanding of the origin of the soul? I don't believe it. Do you really think that the reason all the English versions of Srila Bhaktivinode Thakura's Jaiva Dharma tell that the soul's origin is the tatastha (brahmajyoti) is because the translators are corrupt agents of a secret impersonal conspiracy among Prabhupada's godbrother's? That's total foolishness! There is not one shred of evidence of such a thing and I have never believed it from the first moment I heard it after 3 weeks in the Movement in 1971.

[Svarupa]

 

 

 

 

The living entity falls 'consciously' from above depiction of Goloka to enter the mahat-tattva

 

 

The Vaikuntha planets and the central Goloka Vrndavana planet of Radha and Krsna (above) take up 75% of the Spiritual Sky and is timeless (the eternal present where there is no past or future – only the eternal ‘now’ which means EVERY living entity is already and perpetually in Goloka AS their nitya siddha body serving Krishna.

 

The impersonal aspect of the Brahmajyoti is the individual baddha-jivas in a dreamless state of consciousness attained ONLY after passing through the various bodily mahat-tattva vessels provided by Maha-Vishnu.

 

This is difficult to comprehend, just because someone is born in India and is a life long Vaishnava like Narayana Maharaj, does not mean he must know the meaning and origins of life.

 

To the contrary, India is a corrupt place full of people masquerading as devotees of Krsna who never understood their own Vedas, that is until Srila Prabhupada came to America and with his Western disciples, again restarted the bonafide teachings of Vedanta back in India.

[Svarupa]

 

Do you really believe that Srila Prabhupada would write that Srila Sridhar Maharaja was his siksa guru if Srila Sridhar Maharaja did not have the proper idea of the origin of the soul? .

 

Prabhupada wrote so many things and was always nice to Sridar Maharaj but never trusted him in fact Prabhupada says that Sridhar Maharaj ruined the Gaudiya math

 

Sridhar Maharaj's presentation of the origin of the soul is not only wrong, it is impersonal and nonsense. Too many Westerners are sucked in by little old Indian men dressed as Sadhu's (this is not refering to Sridar or Narayana Maharaja's). Unlike those lazy old fools, Prabhupada came to the West earnt recognition through struggle and hard ship and I pray the present ISKCON leadership does not allow that to be highjacked by fools and upstarts in the Gaudiya math.

 

Hare Krsna

[Beggar]

 

Sridhar Maharaj's presentation of the origin of the soul is not only wrong, it is impersonal and nonsense.

Hare Krsna

Try to use logic an explain why since the origin of the brahmajyoti is Bhagavan Krsna, Baladeva, Rama or Narayana etc. then how such an idea would be impersonal. BTW Srila Prabhupada does not always refer to brahmajyoti as the "impersonal brahmajyoti", sometimes he just calls it the brahmajyoti. After all the word "brahmajyoti" is Sanskrit and really needs no adjective appended to it except for naive Westerners who still after hearing so much, want to merge with God.

[Svarupa]

Here is some nonsense Narayana Maharaj preaches

 

Narayana Maharaja: "So I want to say that your Prabhupada has given those things, only these things, and not beyond these things, then he was only the servant of Maha-Vishnu" he was not actually a servant of Krishna,

but only a servant of Maha-Vishnu?

[Beggar]

 

Here is some nonsense Narayana Maharaj preaches

 

Narayana Maharaja: "So I want to say that your Prabhupada has given those things, only these things, and not beyond these things, then he was only the servant of Maha-Vishnu" he was not actually a servant of Krishna,

but only a servant of Maha-Vishnu?

 

[url="http://www.............../narayana.htm"]

That's a rhetorical question put forth by Narayana Maharaja which he has laced with sarcasm towards those who define Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu as the hidden avatar of Kali Yuga who only preaches the Yuga Dharma, Hare Nama. But actually the anarpita carim cirat verse of Caitanya Caritamrta shows that in this special Kali yuga, this Mahaprabhu who is Radha and Govinda combined comes to give something much higher and rarely ever given. In other words those who ignore this distiction really in a sense are worshiping Mahaprabhu as Gaura Narayana. That Gaura Narayana is an avatar of Maha Visnu but the Gaurachandra of this Kali Yuga is actually the avatari or source of all incarnations. It is not Narayana Maharaja who thinks that Srila Prabhupada was actually not a servant of Krsna, but actually those dullards who do not understand and actually oppose the inner identity and purpose of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu given to the world though Srila Rupa Goswami. The first symptom of such foolishness is to blaspheme Srila Prabhupada's godbrothers and their disciples. I guess that Australian Rules Football toughened you up to be a bull in a china shop.

[Beggar]

Oh by the way, you never answered this question. Since you can't, then you tried to turn the argument into ad hominem rant. This only works on foolish people.

 

Try to use logic an explain why since the origin of the brahmajyoti is Bhagavan Krsna, Baladeva, Rama or Narayana etc. then how such an idea would be impersonal. BTW Srila Prabhupada does not always refer to brahmajyoti as the "impersonal brahmajyoti", sometimes he just calls it the brahmajyoti. After all the word "brahmajyoti" is Sanskrit and really needs no adjective appended to it except for naive Westerners who still after hearing so much, want to merge with God.

[Svarupa]

 

 

This letter written in 1985 seems was way ahead of its time.

 

 

The writter of this letter blames ISKCON leaders for taking advice off Sridar Maharaj who encouraged the bogus Guru system and was really the instigator of it.

Very few don’t know this true fact about Sridar Maharaj.

“I beg to remind Dheera 1 did not touch upon the bad advice Sridhar Maharaj gave ISKCON's GBC when they approached him in 1978 for approval to play guru.

Two famous quotes by Sridhar Maharaja at that time were: "It will be to deceive the disciple (telling them you're a pure devotee)" or, "There is no big mantra or little mantra for guru. Guru is one. (So go ahead and pose as uttamas.)"

A few years later when that bogus advice exploded in a series of falldowns, violence and dissension, Sridhara Maharaja said to Dheera, "They will dig their own graves (and bury Prabhupada along with them.)" Then he summed it all up very clearly by saying to Yashomatinandan,

"I am a form breaker," and, "I don't agree with Swami Maharaja (Prabhupada) in everything."

The effect of Sridhar Maharaja's bad advice on ISKCON did not surprise us since Prabhupada had already warned:

"They (specifically Sridhara Maharaja) cannot help us in our movement but they are very competent to harm our natural progress." (Letter to Rupanuga.)

As such, the fact that Dheera could not answer the section on the impersonal tendency leaves little doubt in our minds that he will not be able to respond to these heavy charges, i.e., that Sridhar Maharaja unduly interfered with the divine mission of Srila Prabhupada.

Personally, because I have full faith in Srila Prabhupada, I never had to read further than the one quote written to Rupanuga wherein Prabhupada said,

"Sridhar Maharaja is responsible for disobeying this order of Guru Maharaja."

Dheera simply refuses to address this and other serious statements made by Prabhupada.

No one is denying that at one tune Sridhar Maharaja was sincere, advanced, friends with Prabhupada, etc., and that Prabhupada liked him and even confided in him, but when an offence is committed to a pure devotee, or his mission (the Gaudiya Math) which is non-different, one loses all importance in Krsna consciousness and immediately fails down to mundane mental speculation.

(Narayana Maharaja said, "Don't you know this man (Sridhar Maharaja) is a breaker of institutions?")

As far as "high realizations" go, I'm sure Jayatirtha also has some very high realizations which make him and his followers "faint" all the time. We are not interested in those kinds of "high realizations."

We are interested in solid, direct, and concise rebuttals to our philosophical points. Words spoken by Prabhupada in the mood of flattery, encouragement, Vaisnava etiquette, respect for seniors, humility, gratitude, friendship, etc., are not valid arguments to counter all of the negative statements Prabhupada made about Sridhar Maharaja just before leaving this world.

Prabhupada even when talking to the most disgusting human beings imaginable always used flattering and encouraging speech, so what to speak of what Prabhupada was capable of saying to a senior Godbrother, and in that Godbrothers presence.

The words Prabhupada spoke about Sridhar Maharaja to his disciples when Sridhar was not there is the actual fact. And even then, Prabhupada was very cautious. If Prabhupada put in writing that Sridhar Maharaja is responsible for disobeying an order of his guru, that's it. Case closed.

If Dheera wants to defend Sridhar Maharaja, then he has to confront these points, and not simply invoke the sentiments of those with no knowledge of Prabhupada's style of encouragement, his tactfulness, and humility and compassion.

All these factors have to be taken into consideration when analysing something Prabhupada says about an individual. To say that Prabhupada was whimsical when he wrote the letter to Rupanuga is very offensive.

Prabhupada always was very careful about what went into writing.

So if Dheera still wants to defend Sridhar Maharaja on the basis of flattering statements, then first he has to explain why Sridhar Maharaja says the jiva soul originates in the Brahmajyoti, whereas Prabhupada says the jiva's original home is with Krsna.

 

Why did Prabhupada write to Visvakarma in August of 1975,

"I have now issued orders that All of my disciples should avoid all of my Godbrothers."

And why did Prabhupada tell Gargamuni right after Sridhar Maharaja left the room once, "He is simply envious."

These are solid facts that we require solid rebuttals to if Dheera wants to be a preacher and try and establish Sridhar Maharaja as being equal to Prabhupada.

Actually, even though he denies it, Dheera and his clan are trying to establish Sridhar Maharaja as superior to Prabhupada. His statements clearly reveal this fact.

Your servant in the exclusive service of Srila Prabhupada:

Sulocana dasa, Dec. 12, 1985

 

The following also exposes Narayana Maharaj. http://iskcon.krishna.org/Articles/2002/05/001.html

 

Why are you following this man when Prabhupada has given us so much. Don't judge ISKCON by the present version of ISKCON with the likes of Ramai Swami on the GBC, movie goers like him will fade away within a few years anyway, but ISKCON will remain. Whos going to know or care about him in 2050? Be smart and follow the teachings of Prabhupada instead of the charisma of fools.

[Beggar]

But the question of the characters of particular sannyasis will raise a red flag to their disciples and then we will only have charges and counter charges.

Now why don't we get back to something philosophical that we can discuss no matter what are our allegences. Why is saying that the soul manifests in the brahmajyoti inherently impersonal? And in this context what do you really mean by impersonal? And for the sake of a rational discussion, set aside your attacks on non-ISKCON Maharajas.

[indulekhadasi]

This thread should be closed. It is another one of those fall of the jiva threads with a lot of blasphemy. I have had enough and I think people with the right mind who are on Audarya have also had enough. I suggest Admin5 should close this thread as soon as possible.

 

Hare Krishna and Jai Nitai

indulekhadasi

[Beggar]

 

This thread should be closed. It is another one of those fall of the jiva threads with a lot of blasphemy. I have had enough and I think people with the right mind who are on Audarya have also had enough. I suggest Admin5 should close this thread as soon as possible.

Hare Krishna and Jai Nitai

indulekhadasi

I don't believe that in a Gaudiya Vaisnava discussion, the topic of the origin of the soul is inherently inappropriate or wrong. It is the Vaisnava aparadha that is wrong. I think that clarification is necessary between the two.