sai baba

[theist]

 

So you disagree that the highest saints are not one with God?

 

x

 

Try to understand, we don't accept your definition of oneness.

[theist]

This thread shows the danger of all this pop "IAM God"ism. People get so confused by it and it's nearly impossible to unravel such thinking.

[Inedible]

 

This thread shows the danger of all this pop "IAM God"ism. People get so confused by it and it's nearly impossible to unravel such thinking.

 

Why do you feel compelled to do that unravelling?

[xexon]

 

Krsna says in the Gita, "In one sense I am everything yet I am independent." IOW's Krsna is beyond just being everything.

 

You know xexeon you seem to be really hung up on us not understanding you. The truth is we do understand you and disagree with whtat you are saying.

 

Ever consider perhaps you are not understanding us?

 

 

Krishna says this. Krishna says that.

 

The fact is, these are words in a book and nothing more. Unless you were there and heard Krishna, you don't know for sure what he said.

 

You have faith that they are true and to the point, but unless you have all those thousands of words written in your own heart, you will never know. It goes way beyond memorizing them. They become you.

 

The book they came from, closes.

 

I understand people very well. And speaking their language is a matter of trial and error. The heart understands all languages, and when mine finds the correct one, you'll hear what I say. Not before.

 

 

 

x

[Beggar]

 

Krishna says this. Krishna says that.

 

The fact is, these are words in a book and nothing more. Unless you were there and heard Krishna, you don't know for sure what he said.

 

You have faith that they are true and to the point, but unless you have all those thousands of words written in your own heart, you will never know. It goes way beyond memorizing them. They become you.

 

The book they came from, closes.

 

I understand people very well. And speaking their language is a matter of trial and error. The heart understands all languages, and when mine finds the correct one, you'll hear what I say. Not before.

x

 

A book is a medium to store printed words. This website and this page is an electronic media and it stores data as words. So what does it matter what the media or medium is? Whose authority should we accept, that is the question? Should we accept your authority, who are you and what is the basis for what you are saying for surely you have robbed thinkers of the past and present from the books that you have read. Were you there and did you here Shankara? Yet your paraphrasing his Bhasya - his words. You may not even know it, so many are taking credit. And now you are taking credit by not presenting an authority here. Yet on the thread, The Avadhuta Gita of Dattatreya, you are clearly using that book as authority. So your argument about books does not fly, and you probably read it in a book anyway![url="http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/spiritual-discussions/446237-avadhuta-gita-dattatreya.html"]

[Vedesu]

 

You have to be both the ocean and the raindrop.

 

Earlier you used the analogy of the leaf on the tree, and that you were only a leaf (although prior to that, you claimed that "I am you ... and aware of it.") Yet here in the raindrop/ocean analogy, you're claiming that you are both. So which is it? Are you only the leaf, or are you the tree also?

 

 

The difference exist only in the mind.

 

Well, it does sound like you're on the mental platform alright, sort of making things up as you go along, accepting your own mind as the ultimate authority.

[theist]

 

Why do you feel compelled to do that unravelling?

 

Why do you feel compelled to ask why?

 

Lord Caitanya's mission was one of spreading the glories of Sri Krsna.

 

Srila Prabhupada is glorified by his mission to free the western world from impersonalism and voidism. Some feel inspired to assist in that effort to some small extent.

[theist]

 

Krishna says this. Krishna says that.

 

The fact is, these are words in a book and nothing more. Unless you were there and heard Krishna, you don't know for sure what he said.

 

You have faith that they are true and to the point, but unless you have all those thousands of words written in your own heart, you will never know. It goes way beyond memorizing them. They become you.

 

The book they came from, closes.

 

I understand people very well. And speaking their language is a matter of trial and error. The heart understands all languages, and when mine finds the correct one, you'll hear what I say. Not before.

 

 

 

x

Oh Krsna's words in the Gita are so limited whereas your words on an internet forum are so liberating. Throw out Krsna and accept what you say.

 

Clearly you are a pompous character.

[Sunds]

I recently visited Puttaparthi and was amazed to see the place. But there seem to be some controversy regardung 'Satya Sai Baba' as a fraud. Though I do not believe such accusations, but is he a genuine ;Miracle Man'?

[xexon]

 

Earlier you used the analogy of the leaf on the tree, and that you were only a leaf (although prior to that, you claimed that "I am you ... and aware of it.") Yet here in the raindrop/ocean analogy, you're claiming that you are both. So which is it? Are you only the leaf, or are you the tree also?

 

 

 

Well, it does sound like you're on the mental platform alright, sort of making things up as you go along, accepting your own mind as the ultimate authority.

 

 

If you knew me in real life, you would not say such a thing.

 

While I may be seen as an intellectual by some, this soul realizes that the mind is only a tool and not an identity.

 

It is my servant and not my master. The ego is quite intact, and this needed to communicate in human terms. But it doesn't run the show. It's a clerk, and understands it's position.

 

There is a conciousness behind the mind. If you were to drop dead this very instant, that flame keeps burning although it's torchbearer has ceased to exist.

 

That is closer to who you really are, than the traveling freakshow that most people have turned themselves into. Adorned with all manner of earthy dirt, thinking themselves beautiful.

 

I'm here to tell those people they have a booger hanging out of their nose.

 

And they're not gonna want to hear it either.

 

 

 

 

x

[Beggar]

 

 

I'm here to tell those people they have a booger hanging out of their nose.

 

And they're not gonna want to hear it either.

 

 

Most persons who follow a real spirtual path have boogers hanging out of their nose and that booger is hypocrisy or the failure to live up to one's ideal. But what you are doing is attacking the ideal of Vaisnavism itself and claiming that you are separating the rice from the husk. In other words your argument is that the Caitanyite conception of eternal bhakti or service to Krsna is actually not nirguna but rather saguna or of this Mayik world. To the Vaisnava's this is taken as a great offense against both Krsna and the sampradaya (line of gurus). It is considered Mayavada or one who sticks to Maya. One of the main tenets of Mayavada is consider oneself identical in both quality and quantity with Parabhrahma.

[Vedesu]

 

[...]That is closer to who you really are, than the traveling freakshow that most people have turned themselves into. Adorned with all manner of earthy dirt, thinking themselves beautiful.[...]

 

Okay, now that your tangential rant is out of the way, can you please answer the questions which I raised above? And also the points raised by Beggar in post #80? Thankyou.

[xexon]

 

A book is a medium to store printed words. This website and this page is an electronic media and it stores data as words. So what does it matter what the media or medium is? Whose authority should we accept, that is the question? Should we accept your authority, who are you and what is the basis for what you are saying for surely you have robbed thinkers of the past and present from the books that you have read. Were you there and did you here Shankara? Yet your paraphrasing his Bhasya - his words. You may not even know it, so many are taking credit. And now you are taking credit by not presenting an authority here. Yet on the thread, The Avadhuta Gita of Dattatreya, you are clearly using that book as authority. So your argument about books does not fly, and you probably read it in a book anyway!

 

 

 

I didn't use a scripture as an authority. I used it as an example. It has no authority other than what you chose to give it. You already know how I feel about scripture.

 

I don't want you to accept what I say. I want to to prove it for yourself when you get to the same place. But it you don't accept the possibility of it, you will never know it. You will never strive for it.

 

And I want you to, because I love you.

 

I'm not interfering with your free will, I'm only giving you more options to express it.

 

 

 

x

[xexon]

I am the rain drop and the ocean.

 

Different points of awareness. Same observer.

 

But I can only express to you the rain drop.

 

 

x

[Inedible]

 

Why do you feel compelled to ask why?

 

 

It seems like a good idea at the time.

 

No, really, it did.

 

Maybe I just want to know about your motivations when you answer questions.

[bija]

We all come from points of our own experience xexon. Some of the sages who wrote these books speak from a tangible experience.

 

If we have not experienced the higher realms of taste in devotion to Sri Krsna, how can we debunk it off hand?

 

Many of the Gaudiya sages have explored deep relams of consciousness and concluded the rasa of bhakti is deeply relishable in all facets of the self.

 

I we are honest with our self, can we claim to have deep experience of such realms. And if we havent, maybe we should look at all facets of our being. Really explore it.

 

You know.....tasting the stillness of shanti and oneness of togetherness, of interconnections one with another can be so rich on a human level. Tasting the ecstacy of devotion one with another (God) is very sweet! We can be grateful to have access to a wealth of writing available to us....to give us beacons and pointers.

 

And then we can choose from that wealth of self realization we have discovered within.

 

I love you to as a human, but I cant force you to love me. And Sri Krsna can't force us to love him either. And that is something I am grateful for. That freedom, gives space for relationship to grow. I love that, even though it hurts sometimes.

 

Inconceivable really....within Sri Krsna is both impersonalism and personalism....Sri Krsna has no inner conflict with this. Only the conditioned souls do.

 

But as we grow day by day in enlightenment the heart becomes spacious like God's inner space. As we are motivated by kindness also dear friend, we can be practical, and humbly share our realizations of the Divine. I have space for that too:)

 

But from my own experience, the joy and bliss from the name of Sri Gauranga, I have not found anywhere else. And I know the depth of that well of love is endless.

 

y.s.

[xexon]

When you're on a hill with so few people, there is some amount of difficulty in describing what you see.

 

 

 

x

[bija]

When you're on a hill with so few people, there is some amount of difficulty in describing what you see. quote by xexon

yes for sure. and that hill can be a really lonely place sometimes...I am glad to be a transcendent being implanted deeply in earth mostly these days (occasionally with head in the clouds of my own ego). best place to learn the science of love I feel planet earth. The lofty heights are charming, the siddhis are enticing...knowledge is deep....but the inner yearning for simplicity will always bring us home hey:pray:

 

to get a glimpse of god as a simple being is something I am real hungry for. That is what I love about Gaudiya Vaisnavsim, the deepr one goes the simpler it appears to be so. i dont care if the gaudiya sages are right or wrong, but goodness its simple!

 

http://nitaaiveda.com

http://nitaaiveda.com/veda.zip

[bija]

oh and a little ego snippet from me xexon,

 

the spiritual writings of Rupa Goswami and Santana Goswami are full of blissful nectar. Paramahansa Yogananda's Autobiography of a Yogi just didnt hit that sweet spot within for me the same. All the high talk of siddhis and spiritual powers is a bit dry for me. Many human beings have some form of siddhi or another, some more so than others. The siddhis come for various reason, even good doses of long term marijuana use can bring siddhis on. But simple humility and devotion to Sri Krsna and his devotees is not so cheap to attain. Even a tiny drop of that devotion, shivering or tears in the eyes in love (even the shadow of such), far excels the bliss of siddhi and the peace of monism.

 

Monism seems to be a negation of the suffering state. I see it as view looking up, in a comparative way to what the suffering was. A pure negation. In essence that is not wrong and it is not false. It's a part of the absolute whole. Can there be a transcendence which is not negating in nature? A state of being where suffering is not the impetus? Where there is no need for liberation? Where suffering may even be accepted, if the loving expression is fully relishable?

 

Maybe such a state of being is directly from the transcendent realm, and not based on the human experience of suffering and the need to negate it. Not this not that!

 

This could be refuted also no doubt by an intellectual. But the inner yearning of the soul will always ring true with ultimate love and bliss. Wherever that bliss is....there we are almost compelled to run...by our nature! Wherever it is we must go!

 

Wherever we find the ultimate satisfaction there we will be. Love by its very nature appears to be unlimited...so where will that ultimate satisfaction find rest? If we find ourselves satisfied there we may stay...unless the grace of love gives us another glimpse of it's nature.

 

Sri Brhad Bhagavatamrta by Sanatana Goswami - click

 

[Oneuser]

Which sampradaya is Sai Baba?

[bhaktajan]

 

Which sampradaya is Sai Baba?

 

The devotee of Krishna fullfills all obligations to society and family et al., simply by following the yogic disciplines of Bhakti-yoga. In contrast to those who propagate "avidya" in the name of enlightenment

Bhaktajan

..........................................................................................................................

Sri Isopanisad Mantra 11 Purport:

 

 

 

. . . The culture of vidyä is summarized in Çrémad-Bhägavatam (1.2.14) in the following words:

 

 

 

 

tasmäd ekena manasä

 

bhagavän sätvatäà patiù

çrotavyaù kértitavyaç ca

dhyeyaù püjyaç ca nityadä

“Therefore, with one-pointed attention one should constantly hear about, glorify, remember and worship the Personality of Godhead, who is the protector of the devotees.”

Unless religion, economic development and sense gratification aim toward the attainment of devotional service to the Lord, they are all simply different forms of nescience, as Çré Éçopaniñad indicates in the following mantras.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

.......................................................................................................

 

 

 

[bhaktajan]

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by theist

Why do you feel compelled to ask why?

 

 

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

 

It seems like a good idea at the time.

 

No, really, it did.

 

Maybe I just want to know about your motivations when you answer questions.

 

Theist!

How can you pick on Inedible?

Inedible is one of the most sincere and dearest poster on this forum.

 

Take another close look at Inedible's picture to the left--the cup in his hand is a cup of nectar that he can pour from unlimitedly to share with us all. Look closer and you'll see the spirit of Devotion fervor that only a bonefide bhakta can manifest . . .

 

I am getting a bit misty-eyed at this point so, so, Oh my, I must go for now.

[xexon]

 

When you're on a hill with so few people, there is some amount of difficulty in describing what you see. quote by xexon

yes for sure. and that hill can be a really lonely place sometimes...I am glad to be a transcendent being implanted deeply in earth mostly these days (occasionally with head in the clouds of my own ego). best place to learn the science of love I feel planet earth. The lofty heights are charming, the siddhis are enticing...knowledge is deep....but the inner yearning for simplicity will always bring us home hey:pray:

 

to get a glimpse of god as a simple being is something I am real hungry for. That is what I love about Gaudiya Vaisnavsim, the deepr one goes the simpler it appears to be so. i dont care if the gaudiya sages are right or wrong, but goodness its simple!

 

http://nitaaiveda.com

http://nitaaiveda.com/veda.zip

 

 

If you want to see God in human form, look into the eyes of someone who needs you. Really needs you.

 

It might be an old lady fallen in the streets or a lost child, but when you first make eye contact with them, there I am also.

 

Mental processes push into the background, and for that fleeting moment, two hearts have become as one. When they pull back apart after the emergency has passed, you'll both walk away with that memory of being one in that moment.

 

Now imagine what thats like when you make eye contact with God.

 

You may walk away with something other people don't understand.

 

But thats okay too.

 

It wasn't for them, unless you wish to share it.

 

 

 

x

[bija]

hi xexon,

 

If you want to see God in human form, look into the eyes of someone who needs you. Really needs you.

 

It might be an old lady fallen in the streets or a lost child, but when you first make eye contact with them, there I am also.

Mental processes push into the background, and for that fleeting moment, two hearts have become as one. When they pull back apart after the emergency has passed, you'll both walk away with that memory of being one in that moment.

Now imagine what thats like when you make eye contact with God.

You may walk away with something other people don't understand.

But thats okay too.

It wasn't for them, unless you wish to share it. quote by xexon

 

Yes a very lovely encounter you have just described. This chance of humanity is a gift hey:).

 

I feel sometimes from experience of life, meeting God is meeting his devotee. The communion and love, of hearing another share their heart and realization, and experience of God. In a way that is more relishable than meeting God face to face. Can we get to that point of openess as humanity?

 

To stand with others in sankirtana, congregational chanting the glories of Sri Krsna, real sankirtan is rare sometimes. If we can hit that sweet spot in Kirtan that's perfection. In that place of the heart there may not even be need for words. Maybe then we have seen God. And have found home.

 

Who is God's devotee?

 

Sankirtana (siksastaka 1) - click

 

Thx for sharing Xexon.

[theist]

 

Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr><td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-right: 3ex; padding-left: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0">Originally Posted by theist

Why do you feel compelled to ask why?

 

 

</td></tr></tbody></table>

 

 

 

Theist!

How can you pick on Inedible?

Inedible is one of the most sincere and dearest poster on this forum.

 

Take another close look at Inedible's picture to the left--the cup in his hand is a cup of nectar that he can pour from unlimitedly to share with us all. Look closer and you'll see the spirit of Devotion fervor that only a bonefide bhakta can manifest . . .

 

I am getting a bit misty-eyed at this point so, so, Oh my, I must go for now.

 

I wasn't picking on him. It was word play. "Why ask why?" ..Oh well