Gandhi described in Bhagavad Gita!!

[tackleberry]

Every word in these verses describes the man they call Mahatma Gandhi. It's unbelievable!! http://vedabase.net/bg/17/5-6/en

[theist]

From what I understand Srila Prabhupada was a follower of Gandhi as a young man and up to the point where he met Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, then he transcended.

[kimfelix]

I think Gandhiji tried to follow the Gita's teachings on karmayoga very carefully in his life. He does not seem to have been motivated by selfish desire in his political actions and to have tried to adhere strictly to his vision of dharma. I admire him greatly.

[theist]

"A saint among politicans or a politician amongst saints." - someone famous

[Guest]

 

I think Gandhiji tried to follow the Gita's teachings on karmayoga very carefully in his life. He does not seem to have been motivated by selfish desire in his political actions and to have tried to adhere strictly to his vision of dharma. I admire him greatly.

 

I AGREE as well. Mahatma Gandji was a great man. he did what was right. By the way fasting for bharat Mata is great. Fighting for Jambudvip is right. He tackled unjustice in the correct way. This is not a sin nor demonish.

[eshwaar101]

incase u didnt know gandhi carried 3 books with him always the gita, the koran, and the bible....what ur discribing, i think ghandi would know about.

[kimfelix]

Yes, but he states quite plainly that the inspiration for his conduct was always the Bhagavad Gita. He does not say the same about the Bible or Quran.

[Kulapavana]

 

From what I understand Srila Prabhupada was a follower of Gandhi as a young man and up to the point where he met Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, then he transcended.

 

It was an interesting connection in his life... Seems like SP adopted some things from Gandhi's practical teachings in his movement (back to basics, rural economy, etc.) and at the same time he deeply resented Gandhi as a person, as this reference in Gita shows.

 

"A demoniac person may think that he can force his enemy or other parties to comply with his desire by this method, but sometimes one dies by such fasting. These acts are not approved by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and He says that those who engage in them are demons. Such demonstrations are insults to the Supreme Personality of Godhead because they are enacted in disobedience to the Vedic scriptural injunctions. "

 

Calling Gandhi (however covertly) a demoniac person seems inapropriate and uncalled for to me, as his tapas was motivated by a desire to help the opressed and was part of his non-violence campaign.

 

Prabhupada gives more credit and none of the criticism to Subhas Chandra Bose for example, who very actively collaborated with the Nazis and engaged in other types of potentially questionable activities in order to further his political ambitions.

[kimfelix]

I am not sure that the quotation from Prabhupada refers to Gandhi. Isn't more likely to be about the real asuras of the Puranas such as Ravana, Hiranyakashipu and Vrika. If the quote is about Gandhi then I would seriously question Prabhupada's judgement!

[theist]

I try to stay away from attempts at analyzing Srila Prabhupada in the way you have brought up. Stating that he "deeply resented Gandhi as a person" for example. I don't think you are qualified to make such a statement.

 

As far as Bose goes yes he supported the nazi's who were at war with britain because the more they had to worry about the nazi's the less likely it would become that they would want to hold onto India. Bose's willingness to enage in active warfare with Britain is rarely credit for driving them to give up India with all the credit going to the pacifist Gandhi. Prabhupada makes a wider point using this example to show that sometimes the effects of armed struggle are necessary.

 

This is as far as I will go in this area concerning Srila Prabhupada. Here is a letter he wrote to Gandhi in '47 that many will find interesting.

 

Letter to: Mahatma Gandhi

—

Cawnpore

12 July, 1947

47-07-12

Mahatma Gandhijee

Bhangi Colony

New Delhi.

Dear Friend Mahatmajee,

Please accept my respectful Namaskar. I am your unknown friend but I had to write to you at times and again although you never cared to reply them. I sent you my papers "Back to Godhead" but your secretaries told me that you have very little time to read the letters and much less for reading the magazines. I asked for an interview with you but your busy secretaries never cared to reply this. Anyway as I am your very old friend although unknown to you I am again writing to you in order to bring you to the rightful position deserved by you. As a sincere friend I must not deviate from my duty towards a friend like your good self.

I tell you as a sincere friend that you must immediately retire from active politics if you do not desire to die an inglorious death. You have 125 years to live as you have desired to live but you if you die an inglorious death it is no worth. The honour and prestige that you have obtained during the course of you present life time, were not possible to be obtained by any one else within the living memory. But you must know that all these honours and prestiges were false in as much as they were created by the Illusory Energy of Godhead called the maya. By this falsity I do not mean to say that your so many friends were false to you nor you were false to them. By this falsity I mean illusion or in other words the false friendship and honours obtained thereby were but creation of maya and therefore they are always temporary or false as you may call it. But none of you neither your friends nor yourself knew this truth.

Now by the Grace of God that illusion is going to be cleared and thus your faithful friends like Acarya Kripalini and others are accusing you for your inability at the present moment to give them any practical programme of work as you happened to give them during your glorious days of non-co-operation movement. So you are also in a plight to find out a proper solution for the present political tangle created by your opponents. You should therefore take a note of warning from your insignificant friend like me, that unless you retire timely from politics and engage yourself cent per cent in the preaching work of Bhagavad-gita, which is the real function of the Mahatmas, you shall have to meet with such inglorious deaths as Mussolini, Hitlers, Tojos, Churchills or Lloyd Georges met with.

You can very easily understand as to how some of your political enemies in the garb of friends (both Indian and English) have deliberately cheated you and have broken your heart by doing the same mischief for which you have struggled so hard for so many years. You wanted chiefly Hindu-Moslem unity in India and they have tactfully managed to undo your work, by creation of the Pakistan and India separately. You wanted freedom for India but they have given permanent dependence of India. You wanted to do something for the upliftment of the position of the bhangis but they are still rotting as bhangis even though you are living in the bhangi colony. They are all therefore illusions and when these things will be presented to you as they are, you must consider them as God-sent. God has favored you by dissipating the illusion you were hovering in, and by the same illusion you were, nursing those ideas as Truth(?).

You must know that you are in the relative world which is called by the sages as Dvaita i.e. dual- and nothing is absolute here. Your Ahimsa is always followed by Himsa as the light is followed by darkness or the father is followed by the son. Nothing is absolute truth in this dual world. You did not know this neither you ever cared to know this from the right sources and therefore all your attempts to create unity were followed by disunity and Ahimsa. Ahimsa was followed by Himsa.

But it is better late than never. You must know now something about the Absolute Truth. The Truth with which you have been experimenting so long is relative. The relative truths are creations of the daivi maya qualified by the three modes of Nature. They are all insurmountable as is explained in the Bhagavad-gita (7.14). The Absolute Truth is the Absolute Godhead.

In the Katha Upanisad it is ordered that one must approach the bona fide Guru who is not only well versed in all the scriptures of the world but is also the realized soul in Brahman the Absolute—in order to learn the science of Absolute Truth. So also it is instructed in the Bhagavad-gita as follows:—

tad viddhi pranipatena

pariprasnena sevaya

upadeksyanti tad jnanam

jnaninas tattvadarsinah

(Bg. 4.34)

But I know that you never underwent such transcendental training except some severe penances which you invented for your purpose as you have invented so many things in the course of experimenting with the relative truths. You might have easily avoided them if you had approached the Guru as abovementioned. But your sincere efforts to attain some Godly qualities by austerities etc surely have raised you to some higher position which you can better utilize for the purpose of the Absolute Truth. If you, however, remain satisfied with such temporary position only and do not try to know the Absolute Truth, then surely you are to fall down from the artificially exalted position under the laws of Nature. But if you really want to approach the Absolute Truth and want to do some real good to the people in general all over the world, which shall include your ideas of unity, peace and non-violence, then you must give up the rotten politics immediately and rise up for the preaching work of the philosophy and religion of "Bhagavad-gita'' without offering unnecessary and dogmatic interpretations on them. I had occasionally discussed this subject in my paper "Back to Godhead'' and a leaf from the same is enclosed herewith for your reference.

I would only request you to retire from politics at least for a month only and let us have discussion on the Bhagavad-gita. I am sure, thereby, that you shall get a new light from the result of such discussions not only for your benefit but for the benefit of the world at large—as I know that you are sincere, honest and moralist.

Awaiting your early reply with interest.

Yours sincerely,

Abhay Charan De.

Enclosure—one leaf from Back to Godhead

[tackleberry]

 

It was an interesting connection in his life... Seems like SP adopted some things from Gandhi's practical teachings in his movement (back to basics, rural economy, etc.) and at the same time he deeply resented Gandhi as a person, as this reference in Gita shows.

 

"A demoniac person may think that he can force his enemy or other parties to comply with his desire by this method, but sometimes one dies by such fasting. These acts are not approved by the Supreme Personality of Godhead, and He says that those who engage in them are demons. Such demonstrations are insults to the Supreme Personality of Godhead because they are enacted in disobedience to the Vedic scriptural injunctions. "

 

Calling Gandhi (however covertly) a demoniac person seems inapropriate and uncalled for to me, as his tapas was motivated by a desire to help the opressed and was part of his non-violence campaign.

 

Prabhupada gives more credit and none of the criticism to Subhas Chandra Bose for example, who very actively collaborated with the Nazis and engaged in other types of potentially questionable activities in order to further his political ambitions.

 

Chanakya Niti says enemy's enemy could be an ally. So Bose's actions must be viewed in this connection, and NOT as a sympathiser of the nazis. To call this a 'furthering of political ambition' would be unfair, especially because unlike Ghandi, Bose was willing to fight for freedom, rather than beg for it.

[Kulapavana]

 

Stating that he "deeply resented Gandhi as a person" for example. I don't think you are qualified to make such a statement.

 

We all have to evaluate situations based on the information available to us. If Srila Prabhupada indeed thought about Gandhi in terms of the above Gita quote, while in his youth he was his big supporter, what else can you conclude? I know the letter you quoted, and it does not lead me to think otherwise. I'm not sure that Srila Prabhupada gave Gandhi much credit for anything in his writings.

[Kulapavana]

 

Chanakya Niti says enemy's enemy could be an ally. So Bose's actions must be viewed in this connection, and NOT as a sympathiser of the nazis. To call this a 'furthering of political ambition' would be unfair, especially because unlike Ghandi, Bose was willing to fight for freedom, rather than beg for it.

 

My point was that many of Boses actions and tactics can be viewed as questionable, probably a lot more so then those of Gandhi. If we criticize one person for having political ambitions and resorting to questionable tactics to achieve their material goal, we should probably not praise another person for doing just that.

 

Gandhi was not exactly begging British for the independence. His was a campaign of civil disobedience and non-violent protest. Bose's troops killed many Indians fighting for the Allies. I'm quite sure that at least in my book Gandhi's tactics (satyagraha) stand on a higher moral ground. In the end, India's independence was achieved through a political avenue and not through a barrel of a gun.

 

But if the passage in the Gita is not about Gandhi, then the point is mute.

[tackleberry]

Let's understand this objectively, then. The Lord has described the following about asuric behavior:

 

#1 Austerities not recommended by scriptures - Gandhi's satyagraha and several of his idiosyncratic habits (starving, wearing loin cloth, practicing tantric sex with his neice etc. etc.) fit this category.

 

#2 Driven by lust and power - Gandhi used satyagraha to blackmail members of his own party.

 

#3 Torture of body - Gandhi went to an extreme in this matter.

 

#4 Deluded mentality - Gandhi with no training as a spiritual man claimed he knew the truth better than anyone else, including the acharyas.

 

All this is established on an objective basis, comparing Gandhi's life with the gita verses. Nobody is inventing these things about Gandhi, it's there in the books, and therefore, these are not mere accusations.

[Kulapavana]

 

All this is established on an objective basis...

 

And of course you are claiming to be impartial and objective here, as well as fully aware of Gandhi's real motivations and aspirations, using only confirmed facts...

 

Can I make the same claim?

 

Lets start here:

 

aśāstra-vihitaḿ ghoraḿ - austerities which go against shastric injunctions and cause harm to others, as well as to the practicioner.

 

Fasting or wearing only a loincloth do not fit that category - if they did, our six goswamis of Vrindavana would be guilty of that too.

 

And as to the charge he had sex with his niece: based on his biography he slept naked with his niece and other women to prove he can control his lust. and besides, sex - even tantric - is not an austerity.

 

The rest of your presentation is equally flawed.

 

I do not see Gandhi as a saint. But I also do not see him as a demoniac person. He was simply a mortal man, with his virtues and vices.

[suchandra]

 

My point was that many of Boses actions and tactics can be viewed as questionable, probably a lot more so then those of Gandhi. If we criticize one person for having political ambitions and resorting to questionable tactics to achieve their material goal, we should probably not praise another person for doing just that.

 

Gandhi was not exactly begging British for the independence. His was a campaign of civil disobedience and non-violent protest. Bose's troops killed many Indians fighting for the Allies. I'm quite sure that at least in my book Gandhi's tactics (satyagraha) stand on a higher moral ground. In the end, India's independence was achieved through a political avenue and not through a barrel of a gun.

 

But if the passage in the Gita is not about Gandhi, then the point is mute.

So far I talked to so many Indians living in the West and they all seem to feel unsecure about Bhagavad-gita. Prabhupada brought it to the point, people in general quit right at the point when Krishna tells Arjuna to fight.

 

"After reading Bhagavad-gītā, they are accusing Krishna as immoral. One professor in Oxford University, he is a student or professor of Bhagavad-gītā, has written book. Now his conclusion is that Krishna is immoral. That means he could not understand Bhagavad-gītā. Bhagavad-gītā cannot be understood by any demon or third-class man. That is explained in the Bhagavad-gītā. Krishna said to Arjuna that: “I am speaking to you the same Bhagavad-gītā, science of God, which I spoke millions of years ago to the sun-god, because the paramparā is lost and I have picked up you because bhakto ’si me priyo ’si, you are very dear friend and bhakta.”So Bhagavad-gītā is not meant for the demons or the abhaktas. The first condition is that he must be a devotee of Krishna. Then it will be revealed. Otherwise it is not possible. Nāhaṁ prakāśaḥ sarvasya yoga-māyā-samāvṛitaḥ [Bg. 7.25]. Na māṁ duṣkṛtino mūḍhā prapadyante narādhamāḥ. These things are there. So if one is devotee of Krishna, he can understand Bhagavad-gītā very easily. Just like Arjuna understood within half an hour. Others, they cannot understand..........But, at the present moment, the highest intelligent class of men cannot understand. Just see the difference. Formerly, 5000 years, this was meant for the less intelligent class of men, and we have deteriorated so much that the so-called highest intelligent class of men cannot understand this Bhagavad-gītā. And he is posted as the professor in the Oxford University.So this class of men are leading the society. The third-class, fourth- class men, they are leaders. Andhā yathāndhair upanīyamānāḥ. So now we are talking with so many big, big persons, guests, coming daily. But actually, we can see how much the third-class, fourth- class men, practically blind, they are leading the society. That we can understand. Therefore, the social order is… Just like Arjuna is describing here, saṅkaro narakāyaiva kula-ghnānāṁ kulasya ca. Who knows this? Who knows this science, that saṅkaro narakāyaiva, if you produce unwanted hellish condition? Who is caring for that? The world is in hellish condition, we can perceive, but they are trying in a different way. They want to remain demons; at the same time, they want to become leaders. So at the present moment, comparing the social status 5000 years ago… According to Darwin’s theory, 5000 years ago, men were uncivilized, uncivilized. Now this literature is written by uncivilized men. Just see. So highly intellectual writings, they were uncivilized. Now they have become civilized. That is Darwin’s theory. We are now making progress. So Arjuna said that patanti pitaro hy eṣāṁ lupta-piṇḍodaka-kriyāḥ. Piṇḍodaka. In Calcutta, there was a big scientist. His name was Sarpisirat. He was speaking in a, he was atheist number one, he was speaking that: “This piṇḍodaka, by offering piṇḍa, prasāda and water, it will go to my forefather. So just give me to eat downstairs whether I can eat upstairs?” This reasoning. But he does not know that how much there are different types of eating. They do not know there is eating in the subtle body also. The ghosts also, they eat. But the method is different. So even a big scientist speak like that, then how the ordinary people…? Yad yad ācarati śreṣṭhaḥ, lokas tad anuvartate. If the so-called advanced in education they speak so irresponsibly, naturally, others will follow. Therefore, at the present moment, the whole generation is covered with ignorance and darkness. No clear knowledge."

 

Bhagavad-gītā 1.41-42

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

London, July 29, 1973

[Kulapavana]

 

So far I talked to so many Indians living in the West and they all seem to feel unsecure about Bhagavad-gita. Prabhupada brought it to the point, people in general quit right at the point when Krishna tells Arjuna to fight.

 

 

Arjuna's fight was just and moral, but not every war is like that. Also, please remember that Krsna came very specifically to destroy the power of the proud and war-mongering kshatriyas of His times, and the battle of Kuruksetra was a key element in that plan. So when Krsna is telling Arjuna to fight, the story is far from complete.

 

Gandhi is not an authority on the Gita - Vaishnava acharyas like Prabhupada are. But we should not equate every soldier with Arjuna and see every attempt of peace makers as naive and misguided folly. I would rather err on the side of peace making then on the side of war making. I have seen too much violence perpetrated in the name of lofty ideas to fall for that trick.

[theist]

 

We all have to evaluate situations based on the information available to us. If Srila Prabhupada indeed thought about Gandhi in terms of the above Gita quote, while in his youth he was his big supporter, what else can you conclude? I know the letter you quoted, and it does not lead me to think otherwise. I'm not sure that Srila Prabhupada gave Gandhi much credit for anything in his writings.

I could have concluded that he found a higher path and goal. The resentment idea comes strictly from you. That is why I said I don't consider you or anybody else to tell me that Srila Prabhupada was motivated by some mundane negative emotion like resentment.

 

The letter was one of general interest to the topic and not to persuade you of anything.

[mohan]

 

Every word in these verses describes the man they call Mahatma Gandhi.

 

 

I have many times thought while reading the said verse from A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami's 'Bhagavad Gita as it is' that it could be describing Gandhi or many of todays leaders. I wondered whether others thought so too.

 

But, strangely enough, from my perspective, it was Gandhi who inspired me to read and understand the Bhagavad-gita many years ago. Gandhi in his autobiography refers to the Bhagavad-gita as the dictionary of life. In India one often hears verses from the Bhagavad-Gita quoted. But it was this statement that actually inspired me to read the Bhagavad-gita.

 

While Gandhi may fall short of Gaudiya Vaisnava standards, there still are a few things I learnt from him.

 

The efficacy of Hari nama. Gandhi was a believer in RAma nama.

 

The concept of a Sadguru.

 

Practical example of karma yoga. His description of Raychandbhai, who he believed to be so, in his autobiography.

 

And, finally it was Gandhi who popularised the Vaishnava saint Narsinh Mehta's " Vaishnava Jana to ...."

 

Perhaps he was unfortunate in never finding the Sadguru he refers to. Gandhi may not have been the perfect saint, which he never claimed, but to the masses, he was still a mahatma.

[Shivaduta]

Read the thread...

What i make out is that so many people have so many firm opinions about Gandhi...

Some find him good... others find him diametrically opposite...

I am not big enough to comment on gandhi the person and the politician...

 

But one thing for sure... it is the making of a great man ...that so many should have diverging firm opinions about one single man ...and should be willing to fight over it 50 years after the man's death...

 

so remember good or bad gandhi was a great man... jai hind

[theist]

[

[mohan]

??

[ukarma55]

Ridiculous!! Its illusory to think that Gandhi was described in the Gita....

Gandhi was no saint or yogi.... jus regarded as such by some politicians..

Read the words of Godse during his trial at court and discern..

[suchandra]

 

Ridiculous!! Its illusory to think that Gandhi was described in the Gita....

Gandhi was no saint or yogi.... jus regarded as such by some politicians..

Read the words of Godse during his trial at court and discern..

Prabhupada mentioning Mahatma Gandhi: So Arjuna also is playing like an ordinary foolish person. Nimittāni viparītāni. “Where is my happiness? I came here to fight, to get happiness, and I have to kill my own kinsmen. Then where is my happiness? I cannot enjoy the property or the kingdom alone. There must be relatives, brothers. I will be very proud: ‘Just see how I have become king.’ So if they are dying, then who, whom I shall show my opulence?” This is the psychology. Nimittāni ca viparītāni paśyāmi. Just the opposite. This is illusion. This is illusion.There is no happiness actually, expanding selfishness. Just like a national leader like Mahatma Gandhi in our country. He planned that “Let the Britishers go away. My countrymen will be happy. My countrymen will be happy.” But when the Britishers went away, giving the responsibility of Indian empire to the Indian people, Gandhi was thinking in the morning, “Oh, I am so unhappy. Now only death will please me.” And the next, the same evening, he was killed. He was so unhappy. Because everything was topsy-turvied. He wanted Hindu-Muslim unity. Now the country was divided. The Muslims became separated. The whole program was changed. There were so many things. He wanted that the government should be very simplified. But he saw that his disciples, his followers, were after office, simply for office. So nimittāni. He saw that “I shall be happy, my countrymen will be happy,” but at the end he saw viparītāni, all opposite. Everyone will experience that. So long he will be materially attached, he will find viparītāni. “I wanted to be…” Sukhera lāgiyā, e ghara bandhinu, aguṇe puriyā gelā : “I constructed this nice house for living happily, but there was fire and everything finished.” This is the way. You construct everything for happiness, but there will be something which will put you into the most miserable condition. This is called material world. They do not know. Therefore one who is intelligent, he thinks that “If I have to work so hard for so-called happiness, and here is Krishna is canvassing, asking me, that ‘You work for Me,’ so why not work for Krishna?

 

 

Here I see viparītāni, everything is opposite. There is no happiness.” So that is intelligence. “I have to work hard. Krishna says, ‘Just surrender unto Me.’ ” Sarva-dharmān parityajya mām ekaṁ śaraṇaṁ vraja [Bg. 18.66]. So Krishna is asking to work for Him, giving up everything. That is clear, everyone knows. “Here also I am working very hard, but here I am working hard to be happy, but the viparītāni, I am becoming unhappy. So why not work for Krishna?” This is intelligence.

 

Bhagavad-gītā 1.30

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

London, July 23, 1973

 

full lecture: http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/730723BG.LON.htm?i=1973