Are Planets, Moons & Stars Living Entities?

[Rishi_L]

The Vedic literature appears to personify the heavenly bodies of our universe as living entities, such as rishis and devas. From what little I know, Surya and Chandra, the Sun and the Moon respectively, are devas. Mother Earth is Bhudevi, a beautiful devi/goddess and one of Sri Vishnu's consorts (the other consort is Sridevi/Lakshmi). I have also read numerous legends in which Bhudevi, when overcome by impurity and evil, requests Vishnu to descend to Earth and cleanse Her. I am completely CONVINCED that Earth is a living, breathing, conscious entity just like us. I'm also aware that a scientist called James Lovelock proposed basically the same thing with a theory of his known as 'Gaia Theory'. Mother Earth is alive! The oceans are Her blood, the rivers are Her veins, all the landmasses are Her skin, the wind is Her breath and the Sun and the Moon are Her eyes. But this is purely from a physical viewpoint. According to the Vedic literature, Earth is also a devi. Yet from NASA photographs, Earth appears to be a blue ball. Could it be that Earth as a devi is actually referring to the subtle astral form of our planet? Astral forms, according to my understanding, are composed of varying combinations of the elements of mind, intelligence and false ego. So perhaps the people of ancient times weren't merely being poetic or symbolic when they thought of heavenly bodies as gods, goddesses, sages etc. They might have had higher psychic faculties in previous, more enlightened epochs (such as Satya Yuga and Treta Yuga, for example) and hence, they were able to perceive of heavenly bodies as living entities... sometimes even with subtle forms that differ from their gross physical forms! What do you think? Am I on the right track here with this line of thinking?

[Kulapavana]

 

I am completely CONVINCED that the Earth is a living, breathing, conscious entity just like us.

 

Yes, she is. When people worship Goddess it is often her they worship, while others worship Goddess as the personification of the entire material energy.

 

Because Earth is a person, tread lightly on her and show your gratitude for her gifts and patience.

[Rishi_L]

 

Because Earth is a person, tread lightly on her and show your gratitude for her gifts and patience.

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you! My late grandma used to say a special Sanskrit prayer every morning when she awoke that was addressed to Mother Earth. It was simply asking Mother Earth to forgive us for walking all over Her body. Very beautiful stuff.

[xexon]

Alive but not in the way you understand life.

 

Physical matter is crystallized consciousness. It has lowered it's frequency to the point it becomes matter. Not unlike the way water can become ice.

 

There is still a wonderful dance of particles in and out of the thoughtform that gives it shape. It can be a planet or a rock. Substance is the same. The level of "life" within something is dependent upon it's physical density.

 

There is a correlation between density and the level of "awareness" in non living forms.

 

In life forms, the awareness comes from a concentration of conscious energy particles we would call a soul. It has the ability to be self aware and move independent of it's surroundings. It is also endowed with the power of creativity. These are the "god" particles. They have the highest frequency, and can manipulate all particles below them.

 

I often refer to the moon as "grandmother moon".

 

 

 

x

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree with you! My late grandma used to say a special Sanskrit prayer every morning when she awoke that was addressed to Mother Earth. It was simply asking Mother Earth to forgive us for walking all over Her body. Very beautiful stuff.

 

 

 

 

MORNING PRAYER

 

 

Samudra vasane Devi, Parvata stana-mandle

 

Vishnu patni namas tubhyam, pada sparsha kshamasvame

 

.

 

O! Mother Earth, who has ocean as her clothes, mountains

And forests as her body, who is the wife of Lord Krishna (Vishnu) I bow to you.

 

Please, forgive me as my feet are going to touch you.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

 

[Rishi_L]

 

Pranam

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

MORNING PRAYER

 

 

Samudra vasane Devi, Parvata stana-mandle

 

Vishnu patni namas tubhyam, pada sparsha kshamasvame

 

.

 

 

 

 

 

O! Mother Earth, who has ocean as her clothes, mountains

 

 

And forests as her body, who is the wife of Lord Krishna (Vishnu) I bow to you.

 

Please, forgive me as my feet are going to touch you.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

 

 

 

 

YES! That's it! That's the one I was referring to!

[Kulapavana]

Anybody here read "Whipping Star" by Frank Herbert? Very interesting concept of star being a person

[Rishi_L]

 

Anybody here read "Whipping Star" by Frank Herbert? Very interesting concept of star being a person

 

I've never heard about "Whipping Star" before. Could you please elaborate more about it?

[Kulapavana]

 

I've never heard about "Whipping Star" before. Could you please elaborate more about it?

 

Read the book. You might like it.

[Rishi_L]

 

Read the book. You might like it.

 

Is it fiction or non-fiction?

[xexon]

On the spiritual plane, away from your physical and mental bodies, you soul resembles a star. The brightness is determined by your spiritual maturity. So it is very much like a nightime sky.

 

A master watches this place for souls that glow brightly. This is where the master and you first meet.

 

 

 

x

[Kulapavana]

 

Is it fiction or non-fiction?

 

It is science-fiction. Makes a good read. The author was a very intelligent and imaginative person.

[Ashvatama]

The materal world is the external lifeless energy of Krsna.

 

Question - So how does this work?

 

Out earth planet, the moon, the sun, the Solar System and the billions of Galaxies just in this one MATERIAL creation of our particular Lord Brahma (meaning who is empowered by Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead) is the agent or demigod empowered by Maha Vishnu, who is the creator of the mahat-tattva or lifeless material Cosmos.

 

Question - How do we understand the presents of life then in a lifeless creation (the external material energy or mahat-tattva)??

It is understood in this way, the mahat-tattva or material energy imprisons the living entity known as Krsna's marginal potency (tatastha s'akti) and therefore not only are living entities living on the earth, moon, Sun and stars, they are contained in bodily vessels that coincide with their particular existence, in a particular vessel, that is also the material energy and a part of the mahat-tattva.

For example, this lifeless earth planet has biological vessels of external matter that is only moved by the presents of the living entity inside that lifeless material vehicle of mahat-tattva energy, the same for the Sun, moon and stars, although the material vessels on those are more subtle (ethereal bodies) than our secular or gross biological vessels.

Your planet appears round but it isn't. The universe looks very different if you could see the sub-space realities all around us (dark matter) made up of material ethereal bodily vessels (ghosts, bhutas, celestial and hellish) as well.

Primitive material science of the 21<SUP>st</SUP> Century has barely scratched the surface that can only be understood by piety and not mundane knowledge so use you intelligence and start chanting Hare Krishna.

 

 

 

 

[Beggar]

 

this lifeless earth planet

 

What makes you so sure that Mother Bhumi is lifeless, mate? Do you really think that your Mother is lifeless?

 

 

Hare Krishna Today Magazine<!-- InstanceEndEditable -->

 

 

atma-mata guroh patni

brahmani raja-patnika

dhenur dhatri tatha prithvi

saptiata matarah smritah

(from Chanyaka’s Niti Shastra)

 

Atma-mata is our own mother from whom we take birth. Guru-patni is the wife of the guru or teacher, who is also our mother just as the bona-fida guru is our well-wishing spiritual father. Brahmani, or the wives of Brahmanas should also be considered as mothers, as should be raja-patnika, or queens, or, in modern society, the wives of presidents or prime-ministers. Dhenur means the mother cow who feeds humans with her milk. Prithvi is mother earth, (bhumi-devi), who often takes the form of a sacred cow when in the heavenly planets or in the eternal pastimes of the Lord. Dhatri means a nurse, who cares for us just like a mother.

By His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada

Once the world was overburdened by the unnecessary defense force of different kings, who were actually demons, but were posing themselves as the royal order. At that time, the whole world became perturbed, and the predominating deity of this earth, known as Bhumi, went to see Lord Brahma to tell of her calamities due to the demoniac kings. Bhumi assumed the shape of a cow and presented herself before Lord Brahma with tears in her eyes. She was bereaved and was weeping just to invoke the lord’s compassion. She related the calamitous position of the earth, and after hearing this, Lord Brahma became much aggrieved, and he at once started for the ocean of milk, where Lord Visnu resides. Lord Brahma was accompanied by all the demigods headed by Lord Siva, and Bhumi also followed. Arriving on the shore of the milk ocean, Lord Brahma began to pacify the Lord Visnu who formerly saved the earthly planet by assuming the transcendental form of a boar...

[Beggar]

Srila Sridhar Maharaj

The Subjective Evolution of Consciousness

The Aryans, the spiritually developed persons of former times, used to see everything as consciousness. Everything is a person. The great rishis, whose thinking is highly developed, address whatever they find within the environment as if they were all persons. In the Vedas, the ancient scriptural inheritance of India, we find that the sages are always in the midst of so many persons in their natural surroundings; in the background everything we experience is a person. It is all personal. And so the rishis with such a vision of reality used to address everything as a person: the trees, the mountains, the sun, the moon, the ocean. They are conscious persons in some mixed stages of consciousness; a person suffering karma. "Person" means not a fully developed spiritual person at present, but a person in a mixed, worldly condition.

[Beggar]

Everything is conscious. As the present scientists say everything is matter, we have real cause to think that everything is consciousness.

<dl>

M

atter does not evolve into a human form and brain and then produce the idea of "soul;" rather the soul contains within it, in one negligible portion, the conception of matter. Like an eczema, it is a disease. The concept of a "material world" exists like an eczema in a wholesome body.

</dl>

This is the understanding given by the Veda, the literature of ancient India. It would certainly be a wonderful miracle if stone could produce the soul, but it is easier and more reasonable for us to think that the soul has produced the conception of stone. In the soul, there are many conceptions, and one conception is that of stone.

[Ashvatama]

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>[quote=Beggar] Do you really think that your Mother is lifeless?[/quote]

 

 

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

The material vessel she (my mataji) is in is, it only moves because of the presents of life, the presents of consciousness that moves the vessel we are in - the marginal living entity .

 

Take away the consciousness pervading the material vessel and you have a dead body, dead matter that is known as the external maha-tattva energy of Lord Krsna. -

 

Try to understand that the External energy is lifesles but is also used as a covering or vessel for the jiva tattva or marginal living entity to move around in while trapped within the mahat-tattva. All visiting Vishnu tattvas within the mahat-tattva or material creation are not affected by the external energy and are never covered by it. This is the teachings of your Sridar Maharaj as well, study carefully and you will see this is what he and Srila Prabhupada says

 

 

 

The materal world is the external lifeless energy of Krsna.

 

 

 

 

Question - So how does this work?

 

 

 

 

 

Out earth planet, the moon, the sun, the Solar System and the billions of Galaxies just in this one MATERIAL creation of our particular Lord Brahma (meaning who is empowered by Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead) is the agent or demigod empowered by Maha Vishnu, who is the creator of the mahat-tattva or lifeless material Cosmos.

 

 

 

 

Question - How do we understand the presents of life then in a lifeless creation (the external material energy or mahat-tattva)??

 

 

 

 

 

It is understood in this way, the mahat-tattva or material energy imprisons the living entity known as Krsna's marginal potency (tatastha s'akti) and therefore not only are living entities living on the earth, moon, Sun and stars, they are contained in bodily vessels that coincide with their particular existence, in a particular vessel, that is also the material energy and a part of the mahat-tattva.

 

 

 

 

 

For example, this lifeless earth planet has biological vessels of external matter that is only moved by the presents of the living entity inside that lifeless material vehicle of mahat-tattva energy, the same for the Sun, moon and stars, although the material vessels on those are more subtle (ethereal bodies) than our secular or gross biological vessels.

 

 

 

 

Your planet appears round but it isn't. The universe looks very different if you could see the sub-space realities all around us (dark matter) made up of material ethereal bodily vessels (ghosts, bhutas, celestial and hellish) as well.

 

 

 

 

Primitive material science of the 21<SUP>st</SUP> Century has barely scratched the surface that can only be understood by piety and not mundane knowledge so use you intelligence and start chanting Hare Krishna - and yes we do all originate from Vaikuntha because ultimately we are all devotees of Krsna.

 

[tackleberry]

I am not sure we can call earth a conscious entity. Otherwise, why do we have classifications like jaDa, chEtana etc.? JaDa refers to inanimate matter, and by definition, lifeless. If not, we'll have to equate jaDa with chEtana, which would render the classification itself useless.

[Sarva gattah]

 

. Take away the consciousness pervading the material vessel and you have a dead body, dead matter that is known as the external maha-tattva energy of Lord Krsna. -

 

Try to understand that the external energy is lifeless but is also used as a covering or vessel for the jiva tattva or marginal living entity to move around in while trapped within the mahat-tattva.

 

 

 

The mahat-tattva or material energy imprisons the living entitES WHO ARE known as Krsna's marginal potency (tatastha s'akti) and therefore not only are the living entities contained in material costumes on the earth, moon, Sun and stars, they are contained in bodily vessels that is also the material energy and a part of the mahat-tattva.

 

 

 

For example, this lifeless earth planet has biological vessels of external matter that is only moved by the presents of the living entity inside that lifeless material vehicle of mahat-tattva energy, the same for the Sun, moon and stars, although the material vessels on those are more subtle (ethereal material bodies) than our secular or gross biological vessels.

 

 

 

 

 

To enter the material world the baddha jiva must first have a suit made from that material energy in order to move around in the material world

 

 

 

 

 

Like one puts a glove on or a diving suit to go swimming or a space suit to go in space, one must have a material bodily costume while present in the material world.

 

 

 

 

 

There are two suits or costumes that cover the baddha-jiva, first there is the ethereal or subtle body that is a vessel in the heavenly, ghostly and hellish realms of sub-space, which is part of the universe that no one on the secular or gross level of reality contained in biological human vessels, can percieve, not even with the scientists Hubble telescope or the electron microscope. The sub-space realm can never be proven with gross material scientific instruments

 

 

 

 

 

Gross matter cannot analyse subtle matter - that is impossible, that is why no one can prove the existence of ghosts, people have recorded so many experiences over the centuries, but they can never be proven.

 

Only ones consciousness can do that based on pious or even impious activities. This is why its hard to explain ones realizations and out of body experiences to others - there is no material way to express such experiences or prove them.

 

 

 

 

Therefore, as a further covering of that subtle or ethereal costume, there is the biological suit or material body. In this way, on our gross middle planet we are all contained in two suits, the ethereal body and the biological body, of which there are millions of different species.

 

The material vessel we are all individually in, only moves because of the presents of life, or the presents of consciousness that moves the vessel we are in.

 

Take away the consciousness pervading the material vessel and you have a dead body, dead matter that is known as the external energy of Lord Krsna.

 

 

[Sarva gattah]

 

To enter the material world the baddha jiva must first have a suit made from that material energy in order to move around in the material world

 

 

Like one puts a glove on or a diving suit to go swimming or a space suit to go in space, one must have a material bodily costume while present in the material world.

 

 

 

In this way, as a further covering of that subtle or ethereal costume, there is the biological suit or material body. In this way, on our gross middle planet we are all contained in two suits, the ethereal body and the biological body, of which there are millions of different species.

 

 

 

 

 

How do we understand this?

 

 

 

 

Achintya-bheda-abheda tattva

 

 

Actually everything works in the entire universe in a simultaneously one and different manner, for example, the bodily vessels one wears while in the material creation are provided by Maha-Vishnu but is also simultaneously projected and created by the living entity (jiva-tattva)

 

 

 

 

 

Hypothetically Krishna is only Krishna when there are living entities existing as well (which is ALWAYS perpetual), just like the Sun is only the Sun when there is Sunshine. Once again, this is an example of the entire creation being simultaneously one and different.

 

When one enters the material world one creates their own conditions of existence however simultaneously the Lords expansion of Maha-Vishnu provides what the living entities or jiva-tattvas create that ultimately means the workings of the entire creation rests with Krishna and His many Vishnu-Tattva expansions.

 

It is important to understand that the jiva tattvas and the Vishnu Tattvas ARE one in the same way the Sun and the Sunshine are one – which means in Vaishnava teachings everything is not only simultaneously one and different, but inconceivably simultaneously one and different. Achintya-bheda-abheda tattva

Krishna is always with us and we are always with Krishna, the choice is ours with what we actually see, experience and serve.

 

[cbrahma]

The Vedic understanding is that matter comes from life and not the other way around - so ultimately all reality - material and otherwise is personal.

On the other hand there is energy and that is impersonal.

The energy and the energetic. A deity and his planet. I don't believe that the Sun god drives a subtle chariot with subtle horses for millenia, just to pull the Sun around. We see the Sun. It is not subtle. What kind of physical laws require the pulling of a huge object like the sun by a subtle chariot of all things.

[Sarva gattah]

 

The Vedic understanding is that matter comes from life and not the other way around - so ultimately all reality - material and otherwise is personal.

On the other hand there is energy and that is impersonal.

The energy and the energetic. A deity and his planet. I don't believe that the Sun god drives a subtle chariot with subtle horses for millenia, just to pull the Sun around. We see the Sun. It is not subtle. What kind of physical laws require the pulling of a huge object like the sun by a subtle chariot of all things.

 

All impersonalism originates from personalism, just like all matter comes from life, and all energy originates from the energetic. And most important of all - all living entities come from Vaikuntha.

Also the sub-space material aspect of the mahat-tattva, where living entities are confined to ethereal or subtle bodies, is governed there in a completely different dimension of space and time than our world of biological vessels and secular matter. It is on that 'subtle' level of reality that the heavenly Moon and Sun worlds exist.

 

Actually the majority of the mahat tattva or material creation is in material sub and higher-space where heavenly, hellish and ghostly worlds exist, only the middle plantary systems, like our earth, are in secular or gross material space.

 

Although what we see and learned at school is not really what our planet and the universe looks like according to the Vedas, the subtle world and gross universes are interweaved and overlap each other.

 

I will post a new thread on what our planet really looks like if we could see the subtle world as well - remember it's all still material even though Buddhist, Christians, Jews and Muslims think that in this subtle 'material' univese is where 'eternal' heaven is found, because of the Srimad Bhagavatam, we know their heavenly worlds are only temporary because they are material and have nothing to do with Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrndavana, the real unending perpetual Kingdom of God (Krishna) outside of this mahat-tattva material decaying creation.

[Beggar]

 

And most important of all - all living entities come from Vaikuntha.

 

This is from the viewpoint of eternity. But from the viewpoint of manifesting which automatically implies time the tatastha conception is put forth by the sastra. Both are true from different angles of vision. But as Srila Prabhupada emphasized, we are immersed in a dream like state and must awaken our dormant relationship with Krsna. It is waking up and re-establishing our relationship with Krsna under the guidance of a bona fide spiritual master which is the most important thing not trying to understand our origin, because it is beyond the capacity of our puppy brains to understand. When we chant Hare Krsna without offense and experience that spiritual ecstacy of selfless service to Sri Krsna then everything will be revealed to us.

[Svarupa]

 

All impersonalism originates from personalism, just like all matter comes from life, and all energy originates from the energetic. And most important of all - all living entities come from Vaikuntha.

Also the sub-space material aspect of the mahat-tattva, where living entities are confined to ethereal or subtle bodies, is governed there in a completely different dimension of space and time than our world of biological vessels and secular matter. It is on that 'subtle' level of reality that the heavenly Moon and Sun worlds exist.

 

Actually the majority of the mahat tattva or material creation is in material sub and higher-space where heavenly, hellish and ghostly worlds exist, only the middle plantary systems, like our earth, are in secular or gross material space.

 

Although what we see and learned at school is not really what our planet and the universe looks like according to the Vedas, the subtle world and gross universes are interweaved and overlap each other.

 

I will post a new thread on what our planet really looks like if we could see the subtle world as well - remember it's all still material even though Buddhist, Christians, Jews and Muslims think that in this subtle 'material' univese is where 'eternal' heaven is found, because of the Srimad Bhagavatam, we know their heavenly worlds are only temporary because they are material and have nothing to do with Vaikuntha and Goloka Vrndavana, the real unending perpetual Kingdom of God (Krishna) outside of this mahat-tattva material decaying creation.