Beware of Kali Temples - blood,alcohol and cigarette offerings

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

Thank you for your beautifully put post. I think that this is very much in line with my sentiments.

 

Ditto on that, Meenakshiamman. Ganeshprasadji's post largely reflects my own sentiments and experiences, and I have said the same thing in not so many words in my own posts.

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

Srva dharma pari tajya--- we hear this very often yet after the war Lord Krishna advise Pandava to worship Lord Shiva, to atone for the sin of killing in the war, now we hardly hear of this do we.

 

 

Indeed, before the War, Sri Krishna exhorted Arjuna to appeal to Maa Durga for Her blessings, and after the conflict, penance was performed by the five Pandavas to Devadideva Mahadeva in atonement for killing so many of their kinsmen. Not to mention that Lord Pitambara Himself worshipped Lord Digambara in His most popular avataras as Sri Rama and Sri Krishna, and that Rukminidevi used to worship Ambe Mata.

 

Hari Om Tat Sat

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

Agni is Fire ~ the perfect conception of Fire ~ and wherever the nature of Fire is present, there is Agnideva ~ the Fire God ~ the Lord of Fire ~ Fire in its essence ~ the very Self of Fire.

 

Terms such as “controller”, “administrator”, or “demigod”, are all rather pathetic titles for such a Deity.

 

And Lord Indra can not adequately be described as the “controller of rain”.

 

There is one Sun, but there are many Days ~ and all are Adityas.

 

One God with many aspects ~ all equally divine ~

 

 

Still, I would differ with you on this one since, even as an Advaitin, I do recognise the difference between the brahma-swarupa Deities such as Lord Hari, Lord Hara, Mother Shakti and "lesser" celestial beings such as Indra and Varuna, who are definitely jivas and are holding these posts for the duration of a manvantara or kalpa at most. For example, in the present Patriarchate, Purandara is assuming the position of the heavenly ruler, whereas in the next, King Bali will fulfill that role. So, my point is that these elemental controllers cannot be equated with Lord Ganesha, Lord Skanda or Surya-Narayana. I know of no verse which praises Agni as all-pervading but Durga Maa, for example is described as brahma-svarupini in many places, and She can award advaitic moksha to Her bhaktas, which Yamaraja, Shani or Vayu cannot bestow upon persons who pray to them.

[theist]

 

Why is Krishna in everything and not other deities?

 

Why is He the only omnipresent deity? What proof is there that other deities cannot?

 

I am being told to take things at face value too often when I ask these questions.

All religions claim that their ultimate deity is omnipresent and blows all other deities out of the water.

What makes them different from you or other Krishna consciousness followers?

 

I take the Vaisnava viewpoint on Krsna.

 

I don't care if you take things at face value or not. I am expressing my viewpoint as you do yours.

 

I have answered your last two sentences time and again in previous posts.

[Amlesh]

Hmmm.... It's not just a matter of concern in Trinidad. Wherever the sacred Murti of Kalima is installed, the above mentionned problems crop as well, and Mauritius also is not spared in that matter.

However, if we go in depth of this issue, it's not surprising also. Maa Durga assumed this form to satisfy the needs of certain people (Upanishads are valued less than vedic principles [pushpitam vaacham]).

 

The Lord is there for everyone; but in this temporary world rarely one is there for the Lord.

[meenakshiamman]

 

I take the Vaisnava viewpoint on Krsna.

 

I don't care if you take things at face value or not. I am expressing my viewpoint as you do yours.

 

I have answered your last two sentences time and again in previous posts.

I am rather surprised at this answer as I do care and have genuine questions of which I was hoping an answer. Who better to ask than a devout follower?

 

The only real answer I've gotten to my last question is that you believe your path to be superior to others. You have never stated exactly why.

 

I am genuinely concerned on this topic and these questions are in no way meant to be an attack on you or anyone else.

[tackleberry]

 

I am rather surprised at this answer as I do care and have genuine questions of which I was hoping an answer. Who better to ask than a devout follower?

 

The only real answer I've gotten to my last question is that you believe your path to be superior to others. You have never stated exactly why.

 

I am genuinely concerned on this topic and these questions are in no way meant to be an attack on you or anyone else.

 

Vishnu is considered supreme in the vedas, puranas, itihaasas etc. The puranas are satvik, rajasic, and tamasic in nature. Satvik puranas consistently declare that Vishnu is supreme, whereas tamasic and rajasic puranas also do, albeit rarely. Vishnu Himself so declares in the Gita. All acharyas, including Sankara who was advaitin, have maintained that Vishnu is supreme. Therefore it isn't a vaishnava conclusion that Vishnu is supreme. It's the conclusion of Sanatana Dharma.

 

But that doesn't mean one shouldn't worship other deities. Shiva, for instance, who's the tatva-abhimani-devata for manas (mind) must be worshipped for a good memory, Vayu and Saraswati for intelligence, and so forth. It's to show this that Vishnu sometimes used to 'worship' Shiva, Surya, or other deities, to set an example for people to follow.

 

Hope this answers your doubts.

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

[Vishnu is considered supreme in the vedas, puranas, itihaasas etc. The puranas are satvik, rajasic, and tamasic in nature. Satvik puranas consistently declare that Vishnu is supreme, whereas tamasic and rajasic puranas also do, albeit rarely. Vishnu Himself so declares in the Gita. All acharyas, including Sankara who was advaitin, have maintained that Vishnu is supreme. Therefore it isn't a vaishnava conclusion that Vishnu is supreme. It's the conclusion of Sanatana Dharma.

 

But that doesn't mean one shouldn't worship other deities. Shiva, for instance, who's the tatva-abhimani-devata for manas (mind) must be worshipped for a good memory, Vayu and Saraswati for intelligence, and so forth. It's to show this that Vishnu sometimes used to 'worship' Shiva, Surya, or other deities, to set an example for people to follow.

 

Hope this answers your doubts.

/QUOTE]

 

tackleberry, go do your homework properly before you come vomit your narrow, fanatical, benighted nonsense. I, like countless others, take an Advaitic reading of the Bhagavata, and anyone who knows Sanskrit would concur with me that this is incomparably more sensible than the cultish personalism that you think we should all bow down to. It is your sectarian propaganda that is a blight on Sanatana Dharma, not the correct conclusions of Meenakshiamman and Ganeshprasad. Then again, you and your handful of co-religionists cannot be reasoned with. And for your information, there are countless Gitas in the shastras, not just the one of the Mahabharata.

[cbrahma]

 

<CENTER>Chapter 4. Transcendental Knowledge</CENTER>

 

TEXT 12

 

kanksantah karmanam siddhim

yajanta iha devatah

ksipram hi manuse loke

siddhir bhavati karma-ja

SYNONYMS

 

 

kanksantah--desiring; karmanam--of fruitive activities; siddhim--perfection; yajante--worship by sacrifices; iha--in the material world; devatah--the demigods; ksipram--very quickly; hi--certainly; manuse--in human society; loke--within this world; siddhih bhavati--becomes successful; karma-ja--the fruitive worker.

 

TRANSLATION

 

 

 

Men in this world desire success in fruitive activities, and therefore they worship the demigods. Quickly, of course, men get results from fruitive work in this world.

 

PURPORT

 

 

There is a great misconception about the gods or demigods of this material world, and men of less intelligence, although passing as great scholars, take these demigods to be various forms of the Supreme Lord. Actually, the demigods are not different forms of God, but they are God's different parts and parcels. God is one, and the parts and parcels are many. The Vedas say, nityo nityanam: God is one. Isvarah paramah krsnah. The Supreme God is one--Krsna--and the demigods are delegated with powers to manage this material world. These demigods are all living entities (nityanam) with different grades of material power. They cannot be equal to the Supreme God--Narayana, Visnu, or Krsna. Anyone who thinks that God and the demigods are on the same level is called an atheist, or pasandi. Even the great demigods like Brahma and Siva cannot be compared to the Supreme Lord. In fact, the Lord is worshiped by demigods such as Brahma and Siva (siva-virinci-nutam). Yet curiously enough there are many human leaders who are worshiped by foolish men under the misunderstanding of anthropomorphism or zoomorphism. Iha devatah denotes a powerful man or demigod of this material world. But Narayana, Visnu, or Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, does not belong to this world. He is above, or transcendental to, material creation. Even Sripada Sankaracarya, the leader of the impersonalists, maintains that Narayana, or Krsna, is beyond this material creation. However, foolish people (hrt-ajnana) worship the demigods because they want immediate results. They get the results, but do not know that results so obtained are temporary and are meant for less intelligent persons. The intelligent person is in Krsna consciousness, and he has no need to worship the paltry demigods for some immediate, temporary benefit. The demigods of this material world, as well as their worshipers, will vanish with the annihilation of this material world. The boons of the demigods are material and temporary. Both the material worlds and their inhabitants, including the demigods, and their worshipers, are bubbles in the cosmic ocean. In this world, however, human society is mad after temporary things such as the material opulence of possessing land, family and enjoyable paraphernalia. To achieve such temporary things, they worship the demigods or powerful men in human society. If a man gets some ministership in the government by worshiping a political leader, he considers that he has achieved a great boon. All of them are therefore kowtowing to the so-called leaders or "big guns" in order to achieve temporary boons, and they indeed achieve such things. Such foolish men are not interested in Krsna consciousness for the permanent solution to the hardships of material existence. They are all after sense enjoyment, and to get a little facility for sense enjoyment they are attracted to worship empowered living entities known as demigods. This verse indicates that people are rarely interested in Krsna consciousness. They are mostly interested in material enjoyment, and therefore they worship some powerful living entity.

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

Also, the so-called division of the Puranas according to the gunas is almost certainly a Vaishnavite interpolation in scripture, hence the disregarding of it by everyone else. After all, it is purportedly from the Padma Purana, that ever fluid text, which even contains a few shlokas by Rupa Goswami. Nobody in his right mind would accept any absolutist statement from the Padma, for this precise reason.

[theist]

 

I am rather surprised at this answer as I do care and have genuine questions of which I was hoping an answer. Who better to ask than a devout follower?

 

The only real answer I've gotten to my last question is that you believe your path to be superior to others. You have never stated exactly why.

 

I am genuinely concerned on this topic and these questions are in no way meant to be an attack on you or anyone else.

 

The why is because I have chosen to accept the Vaisnava viewpoint. It is not that I did not answer but rather you did not recognize the answer. I am not interested in trying to enter into all this talk about which demigod is higher or lower than some other demigod.

 

I can understand that there is one Supreme God, known by various names, who controls everything and everyone including all these so-called gods.

 

In the Gita Krsna explains that those who worship the demigods are really worshipping Him in a wrong way. I accept that.

 

What else can I say?

[theist]

I have not ignored your questions meenashiamman. Here is my post #45

 

 

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by meenakshiamman

Why so elite?

Why must we have to see Krsna in everything? Is there not a time and place to see other deities as well? Or perhaps some of us are not at the right stage for Krsna worshipping?

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Because Krishna is in everything. Why ignore Krishna? Krishna is within the stone wood and paint that you have constructed your deity with.

 

Only one person is omnipresent and that is Krishna. You other deoties cannot say that.

 

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Also, exactly what constitutes as a demi-god to the Krsna Consciousness movement? </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

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Demi-god is a post and not an eternal designation. You can rise up and become a Brahma for instance. The king of heaven Indra can be fired and replaced by Krishna at anytime. You can also become an Indra. You cannot ever take Krishna's position however.

 

 

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> All religions do have an equal thread in that all people are looking for something bigger than themselves. A great surrender of their egos for a greater Spirit or cause. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

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Many lost people may be looking for the way home but they are still lost. Looking is important but finding is the goal. We have to judge which is best on the basis of what they have found. Only that will help us in our search.

 

Chairman Mao also performed great austerities for his cause.

 

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Still, I am becoming weary of this elitist attitude. I have enjoyed my time at an ISKCON temple, but I have heard things that have sent alarm bells off in my head. I've heard Buddhists being called a "cult" and I've also heard Saivites being criticized and supposedly "blown out of the water" by the Krsna Consciousness movement.

This does not exactly set well with me. </td> </tr> </tbody></table>

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I am not associated with Iskcon so you will have to take that up with them.

You can consider me an elitest if you like. That makes no difference to me.

 

 

<!-- / message --> <!-- sig --> __________________

"If a devotee accepts Lord Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu as the universal guru and Lord Jagannatha as the Supreme Personality of Godhead Krsna, he is benefited by the combined mercy of Krsna and guru." - Madhya 13.18 purport

 

http://www.vedabase.net

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

As for cbrahma's post, I couldn't help giggling when I saw it - just another erroneous rendition and interpretation of scripture. But then, if he had any clue as to what constitutes true religion, he wouldn't be a Hare Krishna. As they say, ignorance is bliss.

[theist]

 

As for cbrahma's post, I couldn't help giggling when I saw it - just another erroneous rendition and interpretation of scripture. But then, if he had any clue as to what constitutes true religion, he wouldn't be a Hare Krishna. As they say, ignorance is bliss.

 

You must be riding high on waves of bliss then. Coming from a self confessed advaitin you should know vaisnavas don't care a fig about the opinion of someone who condiders himself the supreme God.

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

You must be riding high on waves of bliss then. Coming from a self confessed advaitin you should know vaisnavas don't care a fig about the opinion of someone who condiders himself the supreme God.

 

Aha Theist, ask any Advaitin worth his salt whether he considers himself God in a literal sense and you will get your answer. This is in fact a propagandist misrepresentation of Smarta thought in which Vaishnavas love to engage. What you say in your last sentence is correct, however, it also holds true the other way round. Non-Vaishnava Vedantins likewise do not give two hoots about relativisations of the Supreme Truth, Parabrahman.

[matarisvan]

 

You must be riding high on waves of bliss then. Coming from a self confessed advaitin you should know vaisnavas don't care a fig about the opinion of someone who condiders himself the supreme God.

 

Typical Hare Krishna ignorance to say Advaitins consider themselves the supreme God.

 

Get off your high american horse and stop judging india and indian religions based on your stupid christian interpretations. Your mindless ad hominem answers can only come from someone who dropped out of school and yet considers himself capable enough to pontificate on religions he never interacted with.

[cbrahma]

 

As for cbrahma's post, I couldn't help giggling when I saw it - just another erroneous rendition and interpretation of scripture. But then, if he had any clue as to what constitutes true religion, he wouldn't be a Hare Krishna. As they say, ignorance is bliss.

You are giggling at a great sadhu which is a very dangerous practice.

In fact you are giggling at a whole sampradaya, line of sadhus and acaryas that go back all the way to a demigod - lord Brahma.

I don't see how you can maintain such a position - you don't even have being a Christian as an excuse.

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

You are giggling at a great sadhu which is a very dangerous practice.

In fact you are giggling at a whole sampradaya, line of sadhus and acaryas that go back all the way to a demigod - lord Brahma.

I don't see how you can maintain such a position - you don't even have being a Christian as an excuse.

 

My shelter is THE largest school of Vedic thought in existence, that founded by Adi Shankaracharya, and in big part relayed by Shaivites, Shaktas and right-hand Tantrik yogis. You're a great sadhu, right? I'd take a dig at you any day.

 

Hari Om Tat Sat

[cbrahma]

 

My shelter is THE largest school of Vedic thought in existence, that founded by Adi Shankaracharya, and in big part relayed by Shaivites, Shaktas and right-hand Tantrik yogis. You're a great sadhu, right? I'd take a dig at you any day.

 

Hari Om Tat Sat

I didn't call myself a sadhu. It was in reference to the person who wrote the purport, Srila Prabhupada.

There's a much larger group of devotees to Maya - called materialists. They pretty much populate this planet at this time.

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

Except that I'm not one of those devotees. And yes, just do some basic research and it should be plain to you that "demigod" is a poor rendering of the Sanskrit term Deva indeed. Only personalist sects are capable of such errors. I to a decidedly more universalist tradition than yours.

[cbrahma]

 

Except that I'm not one of those devotees. And yes, just do some basic research and it should be plain to you that "demigod" is a poor rendering of the Sanskrit term Deva indeed. Only personalist sects are capable of such errors. I to a decidedly more universalist tradition that yours.

You make puffed up claims for yourself with very little demonstration.

[theist]

This thread is a perfect example of what a hodge podge bowl of confusion this hinduism is.

 

These people will accept anything and everything except the reality they we are the eternal servants of the Supreme God.

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

This thread is a perfect example of what a hodge podge bowl of confusion this hinduism is.

 

These people will accept anything and everything except the reality they we are the eternal servants of the Supreme God.

 

It can be a massive source of confusion for those who misunderstand it. If you want to know about the greatness of Hindu Dharma, that could be arranged in many ways. Just say the word.

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

You make puffed up claims for yourself with very little demonstration.

 

What do you expect me to demonstrate?

[cbrahma]

 

What do you expect me to demonstrate?

Your knowledge