Energetic/energy

[Oneuser]

Hi,

 

what is the definition of concept of energetic and what is the definition of concept of energy?

 

(question is related to Gaudiya Vaishnava philosophy/theology)

 

Regards

[theist]

Well ultimately there is only one energetic and that is Krishna, God, the Cause of all causes. Krishna has no cause other than Himself.

 

Everthing and everyone else are His different energies. The living entities (us) are considered His superior energy because like Him we are conscious, sentient living beings, eternal individuals. The world of matter is called His inferior energy because it is not conscious or sentient.

 

Because the living entities are parts of Krishna we share in many of His attributes, only minutely. In this way we ourselves also are energetic and give off energy. The difference is Krishna is unlimitedly energetic and we are minutely so. Also our energetic nature is caused by Krishna's energetic nature but not the other way around. He is the only truly independent being.

 

A nice example is the Sun and the sunshine. The Sun is the energetic and the sunshine is the energy. However each particle of sunshine individually gives of it's own endowment of heat and light (energy).

 

Hope this helps.

[Beggar]

Jaiva Dharma

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura

Prameya: Sakti Tattva

Chapt.14

 

...Babaji: Now see how the sakti of para-tattva is never absent from Him. Para-tattva is always self-illuminated and self-manifesting. The Vedic mantras describe the three types of sakti of that self-manifested tattva as follows:

 

 

sa visvakrd visvavidatma-yonirjnah

 

 

 

 

kalakalo guni sarvavid yah

 

 

 

 

pradhana-ksetrajna-patirgunesah

 

 

 

 

samsara-moksa-sthiti-bandhahetuh

 

 

 

 

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Svetasvatara Upanisad (6.16)

 

 

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That Paramatma is omniscient and the creator of the world. He is Self-born (atma-yoni), the controller of kala (time), the knower of all, the Isvara of pradhana (maya), and the Isvara of all ksetrajnas (jivas). He is full of all transcendentalqualities and beyond all material qualities, yet He is their master. He binds the jivas in samsara, places them in their positions, and liberates them from it.

 

This mantra describes the three states of para-sakti. The word pradhana denotes maya-sakti; the word ksetrajna denotes the jivasakti; and the cit-sakti has been alluded to by the word ksetrajnapati. The Mayavadis explain that brahma is the condition of paratattva without sakti, and that Isvara is of this state with all sakti, but this doctrine is simply imaginary. In reality, Bhagavan always possesses all sakti. Sakti is present in all of His aspects. He is eternally situated in His svarupa, and although He has all sakti in that svarupa, He Himself remains the Supreme Person, full of His own independent will.

Vrajanatha: If He is fully associated with sakti, He only works with the assistance of sakti. Then where is His independent nature and desire?

Babaji: Sakti-saktimator abhedah – according to this statement in Vedanta, sakti (potency) and the saktiman purusa (the Supreme Person who possesses all sakti) are non-different. Work shows the influence of sakti; that is, all work is accomplished only by the means of sakti. However, the desire to do work is an indication of saktiman. The mundane material world is the work of maya-sakti, all the jivas are the work of jiva-sakti, and the cid-jagat (spiritual world) is the work of cit-sakti. Bhagavan inspires the cit-sakti, jivasakti and maya-sakti to be engaged in their respective activities, but He Himself is still nirvikara (unattached and unaffected).

Vrajanatha: How can He remain nirvikara when He works according to His independent desire? Indeed, to be possessed of independent desire (sva-icchamaya) means that He experiences vikara (transformation).

Babaji: Nirvikara means to be free from any material transformations (mayika-vikara). Maya is the shadow of svarupa-sakti. Thework of maya is reality, but it is not an eternal reality. Thus the defect of maya is not present in the para-tattva. The vikara that is present in Sri Hari in the form of His desire and pastimes is nothing but the highest manifestation of prema. Such wonderful manifestations of transcendental variegatedness are present in advaya-jnana Bhagavan. In spite of creating the material world by His desire through His maya-sakti, this cit nature remains in eternal, unbroken existence. Maya has no connection with the astonishing, variegated lila of Bhagavan in the spiritual world. However, jivas whose intelligence has been rendered dull by the influence of maya think that the wonderful variegatedness of the spiritual world is just another affair of maya.

One who suffers from jaundice sees everything as yellow, and one whose eyes are covered by clouds perceives the sun also to be covered by clouds. Similarly, those with mayika intelligence imagine that transcendental names, forms, qualities and pastimes are also mayika. The purport is that maya-sakti is a shadow of cit-sakti, so the variegatedness found in spiritual activities is also reflected in the workings of maya. The variegatedness seen in maya-sakti is an inferior reflection, or shadow, of the variegatedness found in cit-sakti, so although these two types of variegatedness are apparently similar to each other, they are actually completely opposite. Superficially, a person’s reflection in a mirror appears the same as his body. However, with careful examination they are seen to be exactly the opposite, for one is the body and the other is its reflection.The body’s various parts appear opposite in their reflection: the left hand appears on the right side and right hand on the left; the left eye appears on the right side and the right eye on the left. Similarly, the variegatedness of the spiritual world and that of the material world appear superficially the same. From a subtle point of view, however, they are opposed to each other, for material variegatedness is a distorted reflection of transcendental variegatedness. Therefore, although there is some apparent similarity, they are nonetheless different in essence. That independent Supreme Person, who works by His own sweet will, is the controller of maya. He is free from any mayika transformation, and through maya He fulfills His purposes...

[Oneuser]

I named this topic - Energetic/energy - because i found these words mentioned in the explanation of the relation of jiva (individual soul) to God, which is also compared to a relation of sunshine particle to Sun.

 

Energetic/energy

God/individual soul

Sun/sunshine particle

----------------

 

I believe the key to interpretation of these "word games" is in the understanding of words: Brahman and Atman.

 

Vaishnava identify with Atman and is talking from Atman's position,

Mayavadi identify with Brahman and is talking from Brahman's position.

 

Please comment.

[theist]

 

Vaishnava identify with Atman and is talking from Atman's position,

Mayavadi identify with Brahman and is talking from Brahman's position.

 

Vaisnava's speak from the eternal position of the jiva atma in relationship to the Paramatma.

 

Mayavadis don't speak from the position of Brahman because according to them Brahman has no attributes like speech as a means of communication. From the position of Brahman there would be no one else to speak to anyway. Mayavada is so fooloish.

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

Vaisnava's speak from the eternal position of the jiva atma in relationship to the Paramatma.

 

Mayavadis don't speak from the position of Brahman because according to them Brahman has no attributes like speech as a means of communication. From the position of Brahman there would be no one else to speak to anyway. Mayavada is so fooloish.

 

May I ask how much Brahmavada (not Mayavada) you have studied, Theistji? Before denigrating such a lofty spiritual philosophy, at least get your facts right. This simplistic but inaccurate characterisation that you have just indulged in is a common, parochial, mistaken position which Vaishnavas take. If you're interested in the true Vedic religion, get in touch and I shall direct you to places where you can have access to the sublime shiksha of highly evolved Advaitin rishis and swamis. I bet, when you come in contact with such advanced souls, you shall find the behaviour of sectarians most reprehensible and will get down to some real soul-searching of your own.

[theist]

 

May I ask how much Brahmavada (not Mayavada) you have studied, Theistji? Before denigrating such a lofty spiritual philosophy, at least get your facts right. This simplistic but inaccurate characterisation that you have just indulged in is a common, parochial, mistaken position which Vaishnavas take. If you're interested in the true Vedic religion, get in touch and I shall direct you to places where you can have access to the sublime shiksha of highly evolved Advaitin rishis and swamis. I bet, when you come in contact with such advanced souls, you shall find the behaviour of sectarians most reprehensible and will get down to some real soul-searching of your own.

 

I have no interest in your shiksa or studying Advaita in any form. I am only interested in the vaisnava conclusion. You mock Vaisnavas in your posts so who are you to lecture anyone about appreciating anothers path.

[matarisvan]

 

May I ask how much Brahmavada (not Mayavada) you have studied, Theistji? Before denigrating such a lofty spiritual philosophy, at least get your facts right. This simplistic but inaccurate characterisation that you have just indulged in is a common, parochial, mistaken position which Vaishnavas take. If you're interested in the true Vedic religion, get in touch and I shall direct you to places where you can have access to the sublime shiksha of highly evolved Advaitin rishis and swamis. I bet, when you come in contact with such advanced souls, you shall find the behaviour of sectarians most reprehensible and will get down to some real soul-searching of your own.

 

You re wasting your time trying to talk sense to someone like theist who mostly dropped out of school early and has not learnt much since then. He is simply repeating stupid comments made by others on advaita without knowing the first thing about it.

 

Your arguments are useless. He is incapable of thinking on anything new and prefers to repeat himself as someone said even after 2020.

[cbrahma]

I never thought I would witness such an argument of the same kind that challenged Caitanya Mahaprabhu. He was continually assailed by Mayavadis who rejected the personalist siddhanta.

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

You mock Vaisnavas in your posts so who are you to lecture anyone about appreciating anothers path.

 

 

It is most regrettable that you think like this. Still, I would reiterate that your criticisms should be founded and valid, which they certainly are not from what I've read so far.

[theist]

Only Mahaprabhu could deliver them by His mercy. Only Mahaprabhu can deliver them today.

[Kulapavana]

 

I named this topic - Energetic/energy - because i found these words mentioned in the explanation of the relation of jiva (individual soul) to God, which is also compared to a relation of sunshine particle to Sun.

 

 

what would the Sun be if it was not emanating sunshine? would it still be sun? Can you really separate the two - sun and sunshine? you can take this analogy only to a point when applied to the relationship between God and living entities.

 

the voices in a chorus all sing: "we are the chorus". and they are, but not in every sense.

 

if tou want to understand advaita, do not start with mayavada concepts. if you try to understand Vaishnavas, do you start with the sahajiya concepts?

 

the advaitin chorus sings: we are Brahman. what is the harm in that? what counts is how we understand Brahman. advaitins start with what is tangible and right in front of us: our own spirituality. bhaktas often start with God, without understanding their own spirituality. that is why Prabhupada stressed: "first you must understand you are not this body". have you achieved this platform? that is what advaitins are after as well.

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

Only Mahaprabhu could deliver them by His mercy. Only Mahaprabhu can deliver them today.

 

And I've got some news for you! Mahaprabhu was himself an Advaitin. Read Ramakrishna Paramhamsa's meditations on Shri Chaitanya and you will be surprised. It's a very good read, trust me.

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

what would the Sun be if it was not emanating sunshine? would it still be sun? Can you really separate the two - sun and sunshine? you can take this analogy only to a point when applied to the relationship between God and living entities.

 

the voices in a chorus all sing: "we are the chorus". and they are, but not in every sense.

 

if tou want to understand advaita, do not start with mayavada concepts. if you try to understand Vaishnavas, do you start with the sahajiya concepts?

 

the advaitin chorus sings: we are Brahman. what is the harm in that? what counts is how we understand Brahman. advaitins start with what is tangible and right in front of us: our own spirituality. bhaktas often start with God, without understanding their own spirituality. that is why Prabhupada stressed: "first you must understand you are not this body". have you achieved this platform? that is what advaitins are after as well.

 

Thank you, Ji. This is a most laudable piece, and it can go a long way in minimising the differences between followers of various paths.

 

Hari Om Tat Sat