chant and then what?

[cbrahma]

I love chanting, even under the rigors of the four principles.

What I find impossible are all the other requirements that drag along and come out of a brahminical, Vedic culture that cannot be practiced in this day and age without serious alienation and impracticality.

It's just too damn complicated. Furthermore it is material-religion and I find that devotees get so caught up in those distinctions and performances, that they lose sight of the spiritual dimension that the Gaudiya vaisnavas claim to proceed solely from the chanting.

[Beggar]

 

I love chanting, even under the rigors of the four principles.

What I find impossible are all the other requirements that drag along and come out of a brahminical, Vedic culture that cannot be practiced in this day and age without serious alienation and impracticality.

It's just too damn complicated. Furthermore it is material-religion and I find that devotees get so caught up that those distinctions and performances, that they lose sight of the spiritual dimension that the Gaudiya vaisnavas claims to proceed solely from the chanting.

Can you be more specific about the requirements that come out of brahminical and Vedic culture that you find impossible?

[bija]

Hi cbrahma,

 

I will be away for some days, catching a train to the bigsmoke in an hour, so will not be able to respond to your new thread.

 

Saturday I am going to see Amma http://www.ammaaustralia.org.au/ and some nice association, maybe a big cosmic hug;) from Mata.

 

Gurumaharaja has given me simple instructions:

 

Follow 4 regs.

Chant and read as much as possible.

Offer food to Sri GaurangaKrishna as much as possible and take the food remnants.

Do not offend others.

 

That last one is the hardest reg of all:)

 

I dont live near a temple. The nearest temple is 3 and half hours away by train. I will be visiting there on and off over the next few days which will be nice. Congregational chanting is a rare thing for me, as is association of other Krsna devotees.

 

I am not a member of Iskcon, so that even presents some difficulties when I visit there. Unfortuantely. So I keep quiet and simply focus on the Holy Name.

 

The most essential activity for me each day is the Holy name and reading. And following the other principles as above to the best of my ability. I chant 64 rounds of the Holy Names of Nityananda and Gauranga every day without fail, and minimum 32 rounds of the Mahamantra. When I have finished that quota and time permits I then keep chanting the Mahamantra and reading during the day.

 

If we are fortunate to have spare time the best thing to do is vibrate the Holy Names. Taking full shelter of Gaura-Naam Tattva and vibrating the Mahamantra constantly is the sure way to become free of offences and then taste the nectar of chanting. As per the revealed writings of our Acaryas like Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura.

 

So of all regulated practice Naam is the most essential according to Gurudeva.

 

We should adopt what is condusive to our individual spiritual lives. Being caught (a stickler) in all the rules and regulations may actually not be the spirit of real sadhana, depending on our indivdual circumstance.

 

Infact full shelter of Sri Gauranga, his name, form, qualities and pastimes will inspire us in the heart to follow the necessary principles, by rapidly cleansing the heart of unwanted things. A real taste for a simple devotional life will awaken, and what appeared to be restricting will become easier and give more freedom.

 

Taxi is here in ten minutes, got my backpack ready, off to the big smoke with japa mala close by;)

 

have a great weekend mate, cya....Hari! Hari!

[Pretender]

For me personally, my chanting is to just emphatically call out to Lord Hari as in "Hari! Hari!" over and over again. I have some feeling for acapella kirtan(ala Ladysmith Black Mambazo), especially namo maha-vadanyaya..., trnad api sunichena..., matra sparasa tu kaunteya..., udilo aruna/jiv jago...when I am permitted by Divine Grace. As Mahaprabhu has told all his real followers for all time in regards to the Holy Name "...there are no hard and fast rules." Especially if rules discourage. Please don't confuse my statement as an excuse to avoid the regulative principles of vaidhi-bhakti which is not my intent. Instead of adjusting the standard set down by the Gurus to suit my own inabilty to follow strictly, I do not consider myself a Vaishnav proper per se. In this way I try and harmonize hoping for forgiveness at what I view as my own failing to live up to the highest standard. Rather I am a fallen soul with an extremely severe existence as Beggar Prabhu well knows. And following many specific rules and regulations do not fit my own personal circumstances. For instance because I take coffee in the morning I've already broken a regulative principle every day first thing. But I am a strict vegetarian and always have been since first trying to join the temple in the 70's. I try and focus more on the principles of always trying to give honor to others and be respectful to them which is often challenge enough and I often fall very short of Mahaprabhu's standard in this regard. For this I am truly sorry.

[mahak]

then die

[theist]

 

I love chanting, even under the rigors of the four principles.

What I find impossible are all the other requirements that drag along and come out of a brahminical, Vedic culture that cannot be practiced in this day and age without serious alienation and impracticality.

It's just too damn complicated. Furthermore it is material-religion and I find that devotees get so caught up in those distinctions and performances, that they lose sight of the spiritual dimension that the Gaudiya vaisnavas claim to proceed solely from the chanting.

 

Your right. Many people are trying to practice what they conceive of as being a brahmana by imitating religious practices from a past era...often with embarassing consequences.

 

Better then concentrating on the external trappings of what we think of as a brahmana is to take the essence on braminical life by concentrating on developing the qualities of a brahmana which are transcendental to time place cultural and religous tradition.

 

Forget about the thread and concentrate on this sloka from the Gita.

 

Chanting itself is complete and these qualities will help us in our chanting.

 

 

Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, knowledge, wisdom and religiousness—these are the natural qualities by which the brähmaëas work. Gita 18. 42

 

[cbrahma]

 

Your right. Many people are trying to practice what they conceive of as being a brahmana by imitating religious practices from a past era...often with embarassing consequences.

 

Better then concentrating on the external trappings of what we think of as a brahmana is to take the essence on braminical life by concentrating on developing the qualities of a brahmana which are transcendental to time place cultural and religous tradition.

 

Forget about the thread and concentrate on this sloka from the Gita.

 

Chanting itself is complete and these qualities will help us in our chanting.

Thank you for your encouraging reply:)

[cbrahma]

 

then die

Bizarre response.

[Beggar]

Srila Sridhar Maharaj:

We are to search for the meaning. The real meaning, the mark, what does it mean? The substance, brahma jijnasa and krishnanusandhana: search for reality the beautiful. Dive deep. Dive. Die to Live, not only here in the surface of your sensual experience, you are to dive, dive deep in to the reality. adau sraddha tathau sadhu sanga bhajana kriya anartha nivritti nistha ruci asakti bhava, then prema. So many stages we are to pass through to dive deep into the reality. So many superficial covers, so many stages of our mental covers we are to pass through and then we are to come in touch of the reality. Die to live. So our state and our progress, our progressive state, that was the search; that we are to pass through, all these covers. And then enter into the substantial world.

[mahak]

sorry. but the first time one chants, it is pure. The motive is to follow guru and gauranga, to hear and utter the name of god. This is the best time to die.

 

But we didnt, then we took it for granted, made many offenses, and it will never be the same.

 

mahaksadasa

[Beggar]

 

sorry. but the first time one chants, it is pure. The motive is to follow guru and gauranga, to hear and utter the name of god. This is the best time to die.

 

But we didnt, then we took it for granted, made many offenses, and it will never be the same.

 

mahaksadasa

 

On one level we shouldn't feel hopeless, but on a deeper level only our hopelessness will draw the mercy towards us.

[bija]

 

then die by mahak

yep....good realization. if we aspire for raga-marga one birth, we will come to that point of hoplessness....and then surrender to Guru.

 

from Ragavartma-Candrika by Visvantha Cakravarti Thakura

'....now the third instruction deals with hearing about the Lord and chanting the glories of the Lord, and other devotional processes sravanot-kirtandini. As the devotee sincerely performs sravanam and kirtanam, he deeply laments his own inadequacy. By this humility, the devotee finds secure shelter in his Guru and other devotional activities.'

 

ragavartma candrika book - click here

[xexon]

I've never chanted. I've always preferred to listen to the divine rather than talk to it. x

[bija]

 

I've never chanted. I've always preferred to listen to the divine rather than talk to it. x

In my spiritual life xexon hearing and chanting are very inter-twined...infact by chanting we can hear very deeply, feel very deeply the divine.

[theist]

"It's" by definition don't communicate.

[Beggar]

 

"It's" by definition don't communicate.

Yes this Malcom Xexon guy is a hardcore impersonalist. Maybe in his last life he was converted by the Honorable Elijah Mohammed? Also I have boycotted Xexon ever since that big spill in Alaska.

[AncientMariner]

Krishna is a pretty interesting so I don't find impersonalism to be all that interesting since I started reading Srimad Bhagavatam but whatever floats Xexon's boat.

[Malati dasi]

Full nama sankirtan is aiming the mind at relishing the sweetness of Sri Krishna's names and thus chanting the name with full attention, great love and affection. This means one should not chant simply to complete a compulsory daily number of rounds like a machine, without fixing one's mind.

In his Krama Sandarbha commentary on Srimad Bhagavatam 6.2.20, Sri Jiva Goswami writes: One can chant the Lord's names in 2 ways: kevala(mere chanting) and sneha samyukta (with love). An offenceless person who merely chants will attain the abode of the Lord only (salokya), but one who chants with love will be able to reside near the Lord (samipya). Sri Krishna told the gopis when they came to Kuruksetra (Bhag. 10.82.45) : Oh beautiful girls! The living beings attain amrta (immortality or nectar of love) by being devoted to Me, and fortunately the love you feel for me has forcibly attracted Me to you!"

These words of the Lord proclaim that love is the best way to attract Him.

 

Commentary on Sri Sri Siksastakam from the book Sri Sri Siksastakam of Chaitanya Mahaprabhu by a most venerable rasika devotee Srila Ananta das Babaji Maharaj of Radha kunda. wwww.krishnachaitanya.com

[Amlesh]

and be happy...

 

Everything gets activated by chanting only.

[Pretender]

And yet hearing IS one of the nine processes of devotional service recommended in Srimad-Bhagavatam. Just by hearing (or any of the other eight processes) one can achieve full devotional perfection. I also prefer to listen to the Divine, when I am permitted. In some ways hearing can be of even more importance which may be why God gave me two ears and only one tongue. If I have the ears to listen, the Divine is always speaking in every way on every day thereby causing the entire creation to manifest as one big Temple of Understanding for my benefit and the benefit of all others. Apologies in advance, the preceding statements are not meant to minimize the paramount influence given by Mahaprabhu on worshiping the Holy Name. Please consider that the scriptures and saints like Srila Prabhupada have placed emphasis on hearing correctly first or I will not know how and what to chant. Hearing itself forever remains an intrinsic aspect of the process dilineated by the Acharyas when chanting (worshiping) the Holy Name. If I am a good listener, it will be of much help to me and all others. The initial question might also have been phrased " Hear/Listen and then what?"

[Kulapavana]

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: navbar_link -->chant and then what? <!-- END TEMPLATE: navbar_link -->

 

chant some more and listen with attention...

 

the process is simple, and there is no need for artificial renunciation. with purification your taste will begin to change and following sadhana will be easier

[cbrahma]

I want to thank all those who have posted. The replies have been sincere and helpful. Except for theist, however, nobody seems to have got the primary point which is the complications of everything that comes along with the sadhana, the rituals, the brahmanism, the complexity of rules.

It's really what keeps me away and what actually makes it possible to turn this process into a religion the way ISKCON has done, being caught up with all the details of religious qualification.

[Beggar]

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Sadhana Bhakti

 

 

by

Swami B. B. Visnu

 

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu instructed Srila Sanatana Gosvami that a most essential element of Sadhana Bhakti is guru-padasraya — one must take shelter at the feet of a qualified guru. Without this shelter one's devotional activities will not lead to pure devotional service (Uttama-Bhakti).

 

guru-padasraya, diksa, gurura sevana

sad-dharma-siksa-prccha, sadhu-marganugamana

 

“On the path of regulative devotional service, one must observe the following items: (1) One must accept a bona fide spiritual master. (2) One must accept initiation from him. (3) One must serve him. (4) One must receive instructions from the spiritual master and make inquiries in order to learn devotional service. (5) One must follow in the footsteps of the previous acaryas and follow the directions given by the spiritual master. (Cc. Madhya 22.115)

Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada, has written in the introduction to the Nectar of Devotion (a summary study of Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu) that, "Without initiation by a bona-fide spiritual master, the actual connection with Krsna consciousness is never performed." One should understand that it is essential that anyone serious about taking up the process of Krsna consciousness, do so under the direction of a bona-fide spiritual master.

The same essential elements mentioned in the guru-padasraya verse as to one's relationship with their spiritual master are also mentioned in Bhagavad-gita 4.34 as pranipata (offering proper respect to the spiritual master), pariprasna (inquiring submissively of the guru with devotional questions) and seva (offering service to the guru).

 

tad viddhi pranipatena

pariprasnena sevaya

upadeksyanti te jnanam

jnaninas tattva-darsinah

 

 

Just try to learn the truth by approaching a spiritual master. Inquire from him submissively and render service unto him. The self-realized souls can impart knowledge unto you because they have seen the truth.

 

The sincere devotee who takes shelter in this way is assured of success in their devotional practices. Such assurances are found many places in sastra, such as Bhagavad-gita, 18.65.

 

man-mana bhava mad-bhakto

mad-yaji mam namaskuru

mam evaisyasi satyam te

pratijane priyo ’si me

 

Always think of Me, become My devotee, worship Me and offer your homage unto Me. Thus you will come to Me without fail. I promise you this because you are My very dear friend.

Tad-vijnanartham sa gurum evabhigacchet: [MU 1.2.12] in order to understand the transcendental science, one must approach the bona fide spiritual master.

 

yasya prasadad bhagavat-prasado

yasyaprasadan na gatih kuto ’pi

dhyayan stuvams tasya yasas tri-sandhyam

vande guroh sri-caranaravindam

 

By the mercy of the spiritual master one receives the benediction of Krsna. Without the grace of the spiritual master, one cannot make any advancement. Therefore, I should always remember and praise the spiritual master. At least three times a day I should offer my respectful obeisances unto the lotus feet of my spiritual master.(Gurvastakam 8)

The earnest aspirant of pure devotional service, who eagerly accepts the instruction of their guru as their life and soul and who is ready to engage in any devotional service as requested will surely achieve success.

Srila Viswanatha Cakravarti Thakura in his commentary on the Bhagavad-gita verse vyavasayatmika buddhir / ekeha kuru-nandana (2.41) states that it is the duty of a disciple to strictly follow the orders of his spiritual master.

Viswanatha writes as follows: "The instructions that my gurudeva has given me about sravanam, kirtanam, smaranam, pada-sevanam, etc. of Sri Bhagavan are my very sadhana, my very sadhya and my very life. I am unable to relinquish them in either the sadhana stage or in sadhya. My single desire and only engagement is to follow them. Besides this, I have no other desire or engagement, even in my dreams. There is no loss for me, whether by following these instructions I attain happiness or misery, or whether my material life is destroyed or not."

Pure devotional service has been defined by Srila Rupa Gosvami in the Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu as krisnanu-shilanam, actively serving Krsna and all that is related to Krsna with a genuine liking and relish in a way that is agreeable or pleasing to Krsna (anukulyena) and without any motives other than the desire for Bhakti itself, and without adulteration with desires for gain in the way of material benefit, fruitive activity, knowledge or yogic realization ( jnana-karmady-anavritam).

This means that we cannot taint this service with our own mentality or desires, rather we must embrace that which is coming to us from above. The guru is the direct representative of the Lord and as such his instructions are non-different from those of the Lord. He does not mention anything not mentioned in the authorized scriptures nor by his predecessor acaryas. Narottama Dasa Thakura states that such instructions will not differ from those of the saintly persons and the scriptures.

 

sadhu-sastra-guru-bakyacittete kariya aikya

satata bhssiba prema-majhe

 

Making the words of the guru, sadhus, and çastras one with my heart, I constantly float and swim in the ocean of pure love. (Prema-bhakti-candrika 1.9)

We may wish to offer the results of our activities as devotional service, but one should realize that pure devotional service means to serve according to the necessity of guru and Gauranga, not according to our choosing. First surrender, then serve.

In the beginning we are told to simply chant the Holy Name, dance in front of the Deities and take lots of prasadam. As we become more attracted and simultaneously convinced of the validity of the process we naturally inquire further. Then we find that we must follow so many more instructions to assure our proper advancement in Krsna consciousness. Experiencing the higher taste of the Holy Name and the association of devotees, a sincere sadhaka will naturally wish to follow these instructions.

As far as the regular daily chanting of the Maha-Mantra on beads is concerned, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura requested his disciples to chant sixty-four rounds daily. The only exception to this was when one was engaged in full temple service. Under such circumstances one must chant at least a minimum of four rounds. Mallika upavasa na — the mala must not fast.

For householders living outside the temple, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta also recommended that they chant sixty-four rounds a day. As a concession to present day necessity, we have received a similar instruction from Srila Prabhupada to strictly chant a minimum of sixteen rounds per day without fail. The essence of this instruction is to always chant the Holy Name, kirtaniyah sada hari. Therefore those who are serious devotees will always look to keep chanting continuously whenever they can.

Sadhana Bhakti

 

It is essential to maintain steadiness in ones sadhana, never slacking. Many verses from the Bhagavad-gita and Srimad Bhagavatam recommend this steadiness with such words as "nityam bhagavata sevaya." Krsnadasa Kaviraja Gosvami relates in the Caitanya-caritamrta that the sadhana of Raghunatha Dasa Gosvami, our prayojana-acarya (acarya showing the highest goal of sadhana-bhakti), was so much regulated that his steadiness could be compared to lines in a stone: yena pasanera rekha.

By following a regulated daily program one's mind becomes peaceful and one's capacity for concentration and absorbtion in their sadhana becomes more steady. Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu recommends that the five most important processes of devotional service are

 

sadhu-sanga, nama-kirtana, bhagavata-sravana

mathura-vasa, sri-murtira sraddhaya sevana

 

 

“One should associate with devotees, chant the holy name of the Lord, hear

Srimad Bhagavatam,

reside at Mathura and worship the Deity with faith and veneration. (

Cc. Madhya

22.128)

 

Here it is recommended that one live in a holy place - "mathura-vasa." This means, Vrndavana, Puri, Navadvipa or in a Gaudiya Vaishnava temple where Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and Radha-Krsna are worshipped. If one cannot live in a temple the next best thing is to make one's home into a small temple and daily maintain one's sadhana there. In order to stay fixed in the proper conception, maintain determination and avoid speculation it is of utmost importance to associate with devotees regularly (sadhu-sanga), especially with one's guru.

The sadhaka's sincerity is an essential ingredient for success. If one simply endeavors sincerely then Lord Krsna will help one by revealing from within essential knowledge for ones advancement — dadami buddhi yogam tam — To those who are constantly devoted to serving Me with love, I give the understanding by which they can come to Me. (Bg. 10.10)

Krsna also states in Bg. 9.22 that He carries what one lacks and preserves what one has — yoga ksemam vahamy aham. That is, we can use whatever capabilities we have in His service and that which we are lacking, whether it be understanding, knowledge or skills, He will supply from within if we simply endeavor sincerely. Within the instruction of the guru is contained the potency to carry out that instruction.

This is confirmed as follows: In his Amrta-pravaha-bhasya, Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura explains that the spiritual potency is the essence of the pleasure potency. By these two potencies, one is empowered with devotional service. Lord Krsna Himself, or His representative, the unalloyed devotee, can mercifully bestow these combined potencies upon any man. Being thus endowed with such potencies, one can become an unalloyed devotee of the Lord.

Although austerity or tapasya can be beneficial for the advancement of the serious sadhaka, one must be careful to not attempt austerities which demand more than one's adhikari can support. That is, one must be sufficiently advanced in realization and spiritual standing so that this tapasya is not artificial. Our goal is to please our guru and Gauranga, so it is recommended by Srila Rupa Gosvami that real renunciation is to accept anything for the service of the Lord which can be used properly in His service — yukta vairagyam ucyate. To reject something as material, when it could be used in the Lord's service, is vairagyam phalgu kathyate, false renunciation.

 

anasaktasya visayan yatharham upayunjatah

nirbandhah krsna-sambandhe yuktam vairagyam ucyate

prapancikataya buddhya hari-sambandhi-vastunah

mumuksubhih parityago vairagyam phalgu kathyate

 

 

“When one is not attached to anything, but at the same time accepts everything in relation to Krsna, one is rightly situated above possessiveness. On the other hand, one who rejects everything without knowledge of its relationship to Krsna is not as complete in his renunciation.” (

Bhakti-rasamrta-sindhu

2.255–256)

 

In the Srimad Bhagavatam it is recommended that one undergo a life of austerity, starting with Brahmacarya.

 

tapasa brahmacaryena samena ca damena ca

tyagena satya-saucabhyam yamena niyamena va

deha-vag-buddhijam dhira dharmajnah sraddhayanvitah

ksipanty agham mahad api venu-gulmam ivanalah

 

 

To concentrate the mind, one must observe a life of celibacy and not fall down. One must undergo the austerity of voluntarily giving up sense enjoyment. One must then control the mind and senses, give charity, be truthful, clean and nonviolent, follow the regulative principles and regularly chant the holy name of the Lord. Thus a sober and faithful person who knows the religious principles is temporarily purified of all sins performed with his body, words and mind. These sins are like the dried leaves of creepers beneath a bamboo tree, which may be burned by fire although their roots remain to grow again at the first opportunity. (

Bhag.

6.1.13-14)

 

It is also stated in the verse following this one that the essential ingredient is "kecit kevalaya bhaktya" unalloyed devotion.

 

kecit kevalaya bhaktya vasudeva-parayanah

agham dhunvanti kartsnyena niharam iva bhaskarah

 

 

Only a rare person who has adopted complete, unalloyed devotional service to Krsna can uproot the weeds of sinful actions with no possibility that they will revive. He can do this simply by discharging devotional service, just as the sun can immediately dissipate fog by its rays.(

Bhag.

6.1.15)

 

Austerity without devotion is simply a disturbance and will not produce any positive benefits. Indeed, too much austerity will make the heart hard. We need only look to the Mayavadi sannyasis, who although very austere, do not exhibit the qualities of saintliness.

The process is perfect, and the result (krsna-prema) is guaranteed if we follow it. Should the sadhaka's practice be lacking, we should not blame the process, only one's sincerity.

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[mahak]

abandon all varieties of religion and surrender to Krsna. Its not Krsna or his Names that pose problems, its the religion created by men that create the confusion. So, chant, then chant, then chant, then read a little from bhagavatam, then chant, have some prasadam, then chant.

 

Let others do the weird stuff.

[xexon]

To me, chanting IS the weird stuff. So is dressing like an Indian when you aren't one. Just think, if Indians had worshipped John Wayne, they would all be walking around with cowboy hats on. It's THAT silly. God has no opinion on what you wear. When you change dress for the sake of religion, you do so for religion's sake, not your spiritual health.

 

I understand the function chanting has in keeping the mind centered, but beyond that...you could chew gum and repeat holy names and have the same effect. Repetition is repetition, only the subject of concentration changes.

 

But what if God is already a living presence in your life? No concentration required. Why chant?

 

I have been called an impersonalist by several here. I had to look the term up so I could respond.

 

Call me whatever you like. It means nothing to me personally. I identify only with the absolute. If you need a path with deities, demi-gods, and scriptures, go right ahead. You won't know where the path leads until you travel it. I even encourage it. Its the only way you'll ever know.

 

I'll be sitting here under my tree when you're done.

 

 

 

x