chant and then what?

[cbrahma]

Beggar I believe is snapping at my heels again.

[bija]

Beggar I believe is snapping at my heels again. by cbrahma

In my humble opinion that book beggar just quoted from is one of the greatest Gaudiya Vaisnava books written by any disciple of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Prabhupada.

 

And why do I think that? Because the author is an 'extremely' kind hearted soft hearted devotee!

 

With such 'life nectar' as contained in this book, we may tolerate the miserable affairs in this material existence. We may also taste the nectar of spiritual life.

 

Surrender!

[cbrahma]

 

And why do I think that? Because the author is an 'extremely' kind hearted soft hearted devotee!

 

 

You haven't read his virulent attacks. That's why I've put him on my ignore list.

[bija]

You haven't read his virulent attacks. quote by cbrahma

The author is Srila B.R. Sridhara Dev Goswami. Maybe us fallen souls (yep, beggar and me and you) need shelter of such a great soul, or a great soul of like calibre. Even shelter of Lord Jesus Christ in your case...but full surrender to Him is essential. Then his blood will take effect.

 

I have read it all cbrahma. I have been reading this forum for the last three years (got my first computer 3 years ago). This forum has sorely tested me many times.

 

So why come here? Why do we come here? To serve each other! To help each other awaken....and to deepen our own 'maturity to carry each others burdens' hopefully. Carrying each others burdens seems to be a pre-requisite for a happy life as a resident of planet earth;)

 

Sure we will fail, but love covers a multitude of sins.

 

Three simple things for chanting:

 

1 Take prasadam (mercy) in any form it comes, and relish it in gratitude.

 

2 Try not to offend anyone to the best of your ability (cultivate humility and tolerance)

 

3 Chant the Holy Name of the Lord constantly.

If you follow these three things with full sincerity you will taste the supreme nectar very soon!

 

Its not complex, its not religious, its not varna ashrama dharm, its not inclusive of only brahmanas.....its just plain simple good common sense, and foundational for Naam bhajan.

 

Forget the rest....and just do these three things.

 

p.s. and hopefully not to add more complexity to somethings simple:

 

4 take full shelter of Nitaai-Gauranga Naam Lila Tattva, especially when our hearts are full of offences. (this is essential to understand what Hare Krsna actually means and we can even tatse ecstacy while still full of offences by doing this).

If we can taste a drop of ecstacy....we will get greedy for it. And when we get greedy....things are looking good:)

 

Chant and then what....be happy!!!

[Malati dasi]

Radhe Radhe

 

I understand your apprehension. I think it also depends on the line you are following. I am with Advaita acharya parivar. I have a simple but demanding life. I have a humble home with a garden, shopping to be done 2 times/week, 2 kids (one in Univ), I work full time, I have my own blog, despite of all these, I can still do my recommended sadhana everyday without fail, cook for my deities, and roam the net and from time to time throw in my 2 cents worth. Still sometimes I have time to look at the pitch black sky ornamented only by the stars and think "are they the same stars Radha_Krishna see?". Life for me sometimes is still sweet! My point is we have to set up priorities in our lives, drop things that are of no value (anarthas) to our spiritual life like watching TV!

 

To be honest, when I was following the line of ISKCON where we had Blanket Purchase Order of 16 rounds quota@day, I was becoming frustrated and getting diverted from the goal of japa chanting. Now, you can see the side effect of that Blanket P.O. -- ISKCON devotees doing their japa while driving. I sometime think that most of us set aside a time to be alone with our partners, why can't we do that with our Radha-Krishna?

 

Hari Bhakti Vilasa says minimum 4 rounds is reasonable. I think the point there is quality than quantity. With regards to offering bhoga, in our line our mantra is not like reciting a treatise. But of course we have the disksha mantra too to say. Im at the point of my life where sadhana for me is relishable because it's not forced!

 

Please don't give up! Look for one that find resonance in our life.

[cbrahma]

 

Radhe Radhe

 

I understand your apprehension. I think it also depends on the line you are following. I am with Advaita acharya parivar. I have a simple but demanding life. I have a humble home with a garden, shopping to be done 2 times/week, 2 kids (one in Univ), I work full time, I have my own blog, despite of all these, I can still do my recommended sadhana everyday without fail, cook for my deities, and roam the net and from time to time throw in my 2 cents worth. Still sometimes I have time to look at the pitch black sky ornamented only by the stars and think "are they the same stars Radha_Krishna see?". Life for me sometimes is still sweet! My point is we have to set up priorities in our lives, drop things that are of no value (anarthas) to our spiritual life like watching TV!

 

To be honest, when I was following the line of ISKCON where we had Blanket Purchase Order of 16 rounds quota@day, I was becoming frustrated and getting diverted from the goal of japa chanting. Now, you can see the side effect of that Blanket P.O. -- ISKCON devotees doing their japa while driving. I sometime think that most of us set aside a time to be alone with our partners, why can't we do that with our Radha-Krishna?

 

Hari Bhakti Vilasa says minimum 4 rounds is reasonable. I think the point there is quality than quantity. With regards to offering bhoga, in our line our mantra is not like reciting a treatise. But of course we have the disksha mantra too to say. Im at the point of my life where sadhana for me is relishable because it's not forced!

 

Please don't give up! Look for one that find resonance in our life.

Thank you for taking the time to respond mataji. You are following a practical program, it appears, but nothing I could follow because I am single and have to work for a living. That leaves little time for all the rituals of making prasadam and keeping house in that brahmincally particular way.

I tried it and ended up exhausted and completely stressed out.

Never again.

[cbrahma]

 

You haven't read his virulent attacks. quote by cbrahma

 

The author is Srila B.R. Sridhara Dev Goswami. Maybe us fallen souls (yep, beggar and me and you) need shelter of such a great soul, or a great soul of like calibre. Even shelter of Lord Jesus Christ in your case...but full surrender to Him is essential. Then his blood will take effect.

 

I have read it all cbrahma. I have been reading this forum for the last three years (got my first computer 3 years ago). This forum has sorely tested me many times.

 

So why come here? Why do we come here? To serve each other! To help each other awaken....and to deepen our own 'maturity to carry each others burdens' hopefully. Carrying each others burdens seems to be a pre-requisite for a happy life as a resident of planet earth;)

 

Sure we will fail, but love covers a multitude of sins.

 

Three simple things for chanting:

 

1 Take prasadam (mercy) in any form it comes, and relish it in gratitude.

 

2 Try not to offend anyone to the best of your ability (cultivate humility and tolerance)

 

3 Chant the Holy Name of the Lord constantly.

 

If you follow these three things with full sincerity you will taste the supreme nectar very soon!

 

Its not complex, its not religious, its not varna ashrama dharm, its not inclusive of only brahmanas.....its just plain simple good common sense, and foundational for Naam bhajan.

 

Forget the rest....and just do these three things.

 

p.s. and hopefully not to add more complexity to somethings simple:

 

4 take full shelter of Nitaai-Gauranga Naam Lila Tattva, especially when our hearts are full of offences. (this is essential to understand what Hare Krsna actually means and we can even tatse ecstacy while still full of offences by doing this).

 

If we can taste a drop of ecstacy....we will get greedy for it. And when we get greedy....things are looking good:)

 

Chant and then what....be happy!!!

I cannot possibly become masochistic enough to enjoy enslavement to some other human being. Nobody I have encountered is that fixed spiritually to be trusted with one's very life and soul.

As far as prasadam is concerned, that too is complicated and stressful. Just finding the requisite foodstuffs, those that meet full vegetarian protein requirements and yet are free of animal contamination - is very restrictive.

And then there's the preparation and all its fussy antiseptic cleaning requirements. No thanks. I just don't have that kind of time.

[xexon]

Maybe there needs to be a line of Hare Krsna TV dinners?

 

I've been a vegetarian for over 25 years. Its not that hard except in the beginning.

 

Ritual, such as prescribed by various religions, is a behavior modification technique. It lifts you out of the rut you've been running in all your life and replaces it with something else. Another rut. Hopefully on a higher road.

 

The main danger in rituals like chanting is you don't know when to stop.

 

It can become like people who spend their whole life in college. When does it end? When do you graduate? Do you become so busy in your studies that you miss the graduation ceremony and return for another year?

 

You must also excercise silence. Even a songbird is silent long enough to hear the call of it's lover.

 

 

 

x

[cbrahma]

 

Maybe there needs to be a line of Hare Krsna TV dinners?

 

I've been a vegetarian for over 25 years. Its not that hard except in the beginning.

 

Ritual, such as prescribed by various religions, is a behavior modification technique. It lifts you out of the rut you've been running in all your life and replaces it with something else. Another rut. Hopefully on a higher road.

 

The main danger in rituals like chanting is you don't know when to stop.

 

It can become like people who spend their whole life in college. When does it end? When do you graduate? Do you become so busy in your studies that you miss the graduation ceremony and return for another year?

 

You must also excercise silence. Even a songbird is silent long enough to hear the call of it's lover.

 

 

 

x

I am also a vegetarian. But the kind of vegetarianism that you need to offer food, not to mention all the cooking rituals is very specific and complicated. It's not just behaviour mod. Its incredibly compulsive,obsessive, and nit-picking. You get so caught up in these details that it takes too much time and energy away from the practical necessities of living a normal life.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

Beggar I believe is snapping at my heels again.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Uh uh brother, I don't want no Wild Man (Beggar) snappin at my heels!

[xexon]

This is the quandary of many seekers.

 

Spirtual life, or normal life?

 

At some point, it begs a question of you.

 

Do you want a normal life? It this not what you are attempting to escape from by being a seeker?

 

While we all have obligations to the outside world, we can steer our lives in such a way that both are possible. It can be difficult with family and children and career, but as you age, these become less and less demanding on your time.

 

IF, you act now. If you don't, the years of normal living will slip by and where will death find you?

 

Its good to be born normal. It is a great misfortune to die normal.

 

 

x

[cbrahma]

 

This is the quandary of many seekers.

 

Spirtual life, or normal life?

 

At some point, it begs a question of you.

 

Do you want a normal life? It this not what you are attempting to escape from by being a seeker?

 

While we all have obligations to the outside world, we can steer our lives in such a way that both are possible. It can be difficult with family and children and career, but as you age, these become less and less demanding on your time.

 

IF, you act now. If you don't, the years of normal living will slip by and where will death find you?

 

Its good to be born normal. It is a great misfortune to die normal.

 

 

x

By normal, I mean practical and sound. I don't mean conformity to the world. To speak in such a cavalier fashion about how 'both are possible' is just so much carbon dioxide. I don't know what your practices are, but they are obviously not the Vaisnava cum brahmana style. You can't even walk into the bathroom and then into the kitchen. You have become ritually unclean. There are literally hundreds of such ritual rules. Is that how you live?

[Shakti-Fan]

 

By normal, I mean practical and sound. I don't mean conformity to the world. To speak in such a cavalier fashion about how 'both are possible' is just so much carbon dioxide. I don't know what your practices are, but they are obviously not the Vaisnava cum brahmana style. You can't even walk into the bathroom and then into the kitchen. You have become ritually unclean. There are literally hundreds of such ritual rules. Is that how you live?

 

What about the story of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His servant (whose name I forgot): Mahaprabhu is always chanting Krsna nama incessently but when he goes to pass water he stops. Then his servant reminds Him that there are no hard and fast rules for taking Krsna nama meaning that it can be done anywhere and at anytime. Then Mahaprabhu tells him, "today you have become my guru." Isn't this chanting of Krsna nama the process or Yuga dharma for this age?

[xexon]

I have no practices. I bloomed naturally.

 

 

x

[Beggar]

 

I have no practices. I bloomed naturally.

 

 

x

 

Boycott Xexon and all big oil companies who think that their God!

[Beggar]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Uh uh brother, I don't want no Wild Man (Beggar) snappin at my heels!

 

[Beggar]

5.15

nirasrayanam evaikasrayah -

vivrta-vividha-badhe bhranti vegad agadhe

balavati bhavapure majjato me vidure

asarana-gana-bandho ha krpa-kaumudindo

sakrd-akrtavilambam dehi hastavalambam

<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 117 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>Sri Rupapadanam</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

The only shelter for the shelterless -

"I am drowning in some remote region of a fathomless, treacherous ocean - the vast see of frustration, swept by the tide of hallucination. O friend of the shelterless, O benediction moon, please just once now lend me Your helping hand."

<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 118 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>Sri Rupa Goswami</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

5.16

vilambasahanasya bhaktasya tad raksana-visrabdhatvam -

ya draupadi paritrane, ya gajendrasya moksane

mayy arte karuna-murte, sa tvara kva gate hare

<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 119 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>Jagannathasya</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

The devotee who needs immediate protection has full faith that the Lord will come to his aid -

"O compassion incarnate, now I am in danger. O Lord Hari, where is that urgency You showed in delivering Draupadi and liberating Gajendra?"

<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 120 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>Jagannatha</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

5.17

raksisyatiti-visvasasya prakasa-madhuryam -

tamasi ravir ivodyan majjatam aplavanam

plava iva trsitanam svadu-varsiva meghah

nidhir iva nidhananam tivra-duhkhamayanam

bhisag iva kusalam no datum ayati saurih

<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 121 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>Sri Draupadyah</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

The revealed sweetness of confidence in the Lord's protection -

"Like the sun ascending through the darkness,

<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 122 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>like a boat for the helplessly drowning, </td> </tr> </tbody></table> like a raincloud of sweet waters for the parched;

<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 123 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>like a treasure for the impoverished, </td> </tr> </tbody></table> like a physician for the deadly afflicted -

<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 124 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>the Lord Sri Krsna is now coming to bless us </td> </tr> </tbody></table> with all good fortune."

<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 125 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>Srimati Draupadi</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

5.18

tad raksakatve tat karunyam eva karanam -

pracinanam bhajanam atulam duskaram srnvato me

nairasyena jvalati hrdayam bhakh lesalasasya

visva-dricim aghahara tavakarnya karunya vicim

asa-binduksitam idam upaity antare hanta saityam

<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 126 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>Sri Rupapadanam</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

The cause of the Lord's protectiveness is His mercy alone -

"O destroyer of sin, my heart is averse to a trace of devotion, and it burns in the fire of hopelessness when I hear about the incomparable, formidable devotional services rendered by the great predecessor devotees. But now that I have heard about the wave of Your mercy which floods the universe, the core of my heart, sprinkled by a drop of hope, is soothed with cooling relief once again."

<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 127 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>Sri Rupa Goswami</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

5.19

bhagavatah sri-caitanya-rupasya param audaryam -

ha hanta citta-bhuvi me paramosarayam

sad-bhakti-kalpa-latikankurita katham syat

hrdy ekam eva paramasvasaniyam asti

caitanya-nama kalayan na kadapi socyah

<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 128 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>Sri Prabodhanandapadanam</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

The supreme magnanimity of the Supreme Lord Sri Caitanyadeva -

"Alas, alas! How will the charming wish-fulfilling creeper of pure devotion ever sprout from the desperately barren planes of my consciousness?

Despite my predicament, just one great hope awakens in my heart: by chanting the name of Sri Caitanyadeva, nothing can remain to be lamented for by anyone at any time."

<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 129 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>Sri Prabodhananda Saraswati</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

5.20

sri-gaurahareh sarvopaya-vihinesv api raksakatvam -

jnanadi-vartma-virucim vraja-natha-bhakti-

ritim na vedmi na ca sad-guravo milanti

ha hanta hanta mama kah saranam vimudha

gauro-haris tava na karna-patham gato 'sti

<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 130 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>Sri Prabodhanandapadanam</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

Sri Gaurahari is the savior of even those bereft of any method of approach -

"I know not the way of love in Sri Vrndavana,

which breeds disloyalty to wisdom and the world;

nor do I come to meet with saintly teachers -

to whom shall I surrender, where shall I go?

O foolish fellow! You cannot have heard about

the Golden Lord, Sri Gaura Mahaprabhu."

<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 131 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>Sri Prabodhananda Saraswati</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

<center>iti sri-prapanna-jivanamrte sri-bhakta-vacanamrtantargato

raksisyatiti visvaso nama pancamo 'dhyayah

thus ends the fifth chapter

Confidence in the Lord's Protection - Words of Nectar from the Devotees

in

Life-Nectar of the Surrendered Souls

Positive and Progressive Immortality

</center>

[Shakti-Fan]

 

5.18

tad raksakatve tat karunyam eva karanam -

pracinanam bhajanam atulam duskaram srnvato me

nairasyena jvalati hrdayam bhakh lesalasasya

visva-dricim aghahara tavakarnya karunya vicim

asa-binduksitam idam upaity antare hanta saityam

<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 126 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>Sri Rupapadanam</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

The cause of the Lord's protectiveness is His mercy alone -

"O destroyer of sin, my heart is averse to a trace of devotion, and it burns in the fire of hopelessness when I hear about the incomparable, formidable devotional services rendered by the great predecessor devotees. But now that I have heard about the wave of Your mercy which floods the universe, the core of my heart, sprinkled by a drop of hope, is soothed with cooling relief once again."

<table width="95%"> <!-- Table 127 Row 01 --> <tbody><tr> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td> </td> <td>Sri Rupa Goswami</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

 

[cbrahma]

 

I have no practices. I bloomed naturally.

 

 

x

A contest of words again. You decry normal and extol natural.

[cbrahma]

 

What about the story of Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu and His servant (whose name I forgot): Mahaprabhu is always chanting Krsna nama incessently but when he goes to pass water he stops. Then his servant reminds Him that there are no hard and fast rules for taking Krsna nama meaning that it can be done anywhere and at anytime. Then Mahaprabhu tells him, "today you have become my guru." Isn't this chanting of Krsna nama the process or Yuga dharma for this age?

That's the way ISKCON hooks you in. "Oh all you have to do is take prasadam and chant" Yah right. Then comes the sting - 'Oh but devotional service is the whole point of chanting". which comes down to serving THEM and contributing to their economic development.

Been there, done that.

[Shakti-Fan]

 

That's the way ISKCON hooks you in. "Oh all you have to do is take prasadam and chant" Yah right. Then comes the sting - 'Oh but devotional service is the whole point of chanting". which comes down to serving THEM and contributing to their economic development.

Been there, done that.

 

So if you feel cheated that they are not giving the real thing then try another sanga. If groups are not your thing, then stay by yourself and chant. You can adopt those parts of the process which are favorable for your own development and conditonal nature. May I suggest that you read about the dealings amongst genuine Vaisnavas in Jaiva Dharma. You can read it online at: http://www.bvml.org/SBNM/JaivaDharma/index.html

[cbrahma]

 

So if you feel cheated that they are not giving the real thing then try another sanga. If groups are not your thing, then stay by yourself and chant. You can adopt those parts of the process which are favorable for your own development and conditonal nature. May I suggest that you read about the dealings amongst genuine Vaisnavas in Jaiva Dharma. You can read it online at: http://www.bvml.org/SBNM/JaivaDharma/index.html

Its a supermarket of gurus and dharmas on sale. Why do I need this? Why should salvation depend on so much chance and circumstance?

[Beggar]

 

 

Beggar plays three roles on this thread: Dr. Strangelove, President Merkin Muffley and Group Captain Lionel Mandrake.

 

 

 

 

[Shakti-Fan]

 

 

Beggar plays three roles on this thread: Dr. Strangelove, President Merkin Muffley and Group Captain Lionel Mandrake.

 

 

 

 

 

AHA!!! I KNEW IT ALL ALONG!

[xexon]

 

A contest of words again. You decry normal and extol natural.

It just semantics.

 

Normal, is worldly, and all the attachment that comes from that. It is an artificial world built by the mind for the mind.

 

Normal, is your natural spiritual state, that has become buried under all the worldy things you have attached to yourself.

 

Religion attempts to give you rebirth by cesarean section.

 

With no religion, your rebirth is natural.

 

 

x