And this idea of choice? Also there’s EVEN a lesson for ISKCON's GBC

[Sarva gattah]

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=OnserZOf1-4&feature=related

 

Brilliant!!

 

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=Jr_ts-GBk2s&feature=related

[seamusjcarroll]

dear prabhu very nice , some itelegence ,as to instruction , if you were to percieve prabhupadas presence before you now what instruction do you think he would give choose nine words , when you decide the nine words , i will also right down nine words, the rules 1 at a time first last

[seamusjcarroll]

nine words emotion motion prabhupada close spoke only jocking krishna naughtyboy

[seamusjcarroll]

nine words oh krishna im so sorry for leaving you alone( mahdahurya rasa prabhupaada) jai rahda

[suchandra]

 

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=OnserZOf1-4&feature=related

 

Brilliant!!

 

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=m4unErPhJV0&feature=related

 

He highlights, "It's incredible that people put up with it."

This is because he doesn't understand the law of karma.

If people are born with this karma he mentions they feel intuitively that it is hopeless to change their situation and they just capitulate to their materially unfortunate situation.

This is another reason to propagate the chanting of the Holy Name, it immediately helps even the most fallen. In fact they would find out that it is the best situation for chanting they are presently in. But what can we do if even learned Vaishnavas have given up the vow to chant their rounds of japa?

[Sarva gattah]

 

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=OnserZOf1-4&feature=related

 

Brilliant!!

 

 

The above is something that theist would see and like.

Also I went to Melbourne Temple at Lunchtime after months of travelling and saw the beautiful Deities and had some wonderful Maha prasad.

 

I then spoke to some of the devotees who have never even heard of Dandavat.com or Audarya Fellowship. I wasn't at all surprised, as this is the norm for Melbourne Temple, nothing really changes - I relished the Prasad and had memories of Prabhupada when he was here.

I new no one there and they did not know me.

It was almost as if I was in another body, an older more wiser body. I did not say much and just listened to this young devotee preach to me, he warned me that the Internet was too dangerous and said Temple devotees avoided it. I just listened and had memories of how the body I am in was also once a young 18-year-old devotee long ago

I did not say it to this young devotee but realized many of the lessons of humility, selflessness, compassion are still yet to be learned by many Temple devotees. In their isolation they deny themselves of many important lessons of how to balance sentiment and shastra and show genuine kindness to other living entities

I then left the sanctuary and isolation of ISKCON Melbourne, realizing such isolation is a definitely necessary part of indoctrinating training for all young and new devotees to be strong devotees. There is a serious problem however that often comes with such isolation, as ISKCON's colored history proves. In the past and even now more so than one thinks, many are used and exploited emotionally and psychologically in clever ways by others in leadership instead of nurturing them to be confident individual with strong self esteem and faith in Krishna. As the Youtube clip states, "by keeping people hopeless and pessimistic, you control them, first of all frighten people, then demoralize them" Lets face the facts, many ISKCON leaders still use these PUT DOWN tactics today to break the spirits of others and make them feel useless so they can control them under the disguise of 'making others humble'.

 

It is this kind of self rightious nonsense they attempt to impose on others in the name of Krishna Consciousness, in the name of Prabhupadas ISKCON Movement, only keeps the movement stagnated, go to Dandavats live cam and also see Brisbane Temple live, out of a city of 2 million people, the Dandavats Cam reveals no more than 5 devotee chanting in the Temple room at one time in the morning.

 

ANYWAY I would never tolerate such patronising with what I know now.there is NO room for such arrogant tactics today or ever again in the future of ISKCON's development into a bonafide genuin world religion for the purpose of guiding others back Home, back to Godhead.

 

I further realized that the front line of preaching IS the Internet and the future of all preaching.

And like the rest of the material world, it is a very dangerous place.

[suchandra]

 

The above is something that theist would see and like.

Also I went to Melbourne Temple at Lunchtime after months of travelling and saw the beautiful Deities and had some wonderful Maha prasad.

 

I then spoke to some of the devotees who have never even heard of Dandavat.com or Audarya Fellowship. I wasn't at all surprised, as this is the norm for Melbourne Temple, nothing really changes - I relished the Prasad and had memories of Prabhupada when he was here.

I new no one there and they did not know me.

It was almost as if I was in another body, an older more wiser body. I did not say much and just listened to this young devotee preach to me, he warned me that the Internet was too dangerous and said Temple devotees avoided it. I just listened and had memories of how the body I am in was also once a young 18-year-old devotee long ago

I did not say it to this young devotee but realized many of the lessons of humility, selflessness, compassion are still yet to be learned by many Temple devotees. In their isolation they deny themselves of many important lessons of how to balance sentiment and shastra and show genuine kindness to other living entities

I then left the sanctuary and isolation of ISKCON Melbourne, realizing such isolation is a definitely necessary part of indoctrinating training for all young and new devotees to be strong devotees. There is a serious problem however that often comes with such isolation, as ISKCON's colored history proves. In the past and even now more so than one thinks, many are used and exploited emotionally and psychologically in clever ways by others in leadership instead of nurturing them to be confident individual with strong self esteem and faith in Krishna. As the Youtube clip states, "by keeping people hopeless and pessimistic, you control them, first of all frighten people, then demoralize them" Lets face the facts, many ISKCON leaders still use these PUT DOWN tactics today to break the spirits of others and make them feel useless so they can control them under the disguise of 'making others humble'. What a load of self rightious nonsense they attempt to impose on others in the name of Krishna Consciousness, in the name of Prabhupadas ISKCON Movement, I militantly would never tolerate such arrogant tactics today

 

I further realized that the front line of preaching IS the Internet and the future of all preaching.

And like the rest of the material world, it is a very dangerous place.

 

Well, yes, some non-Vaishnavas do a better job lately.

[Sarva gattah]

 

Well, yes, some non-Vaishnavas do a better job lately.

 

Non -Vaishnava or Vaishnava? Actually being Vaishnava is not cheap, we are all aspiring Vaishnavas, a real selfless inspiring Vaishnava is very, very rare because he sees the full potential of all living entities as being devotees of Krishna, he or she sees beyond the bodily identity of race, color or condition of all others.

This is the point I am making, does one see the material body or the soul? The devotee within? – Only a real Vaishnava can understand this and see the real truth and know how to treat all others.

[seamusjcarroll]

nine words oh krishna im so sorry for leaving you alone( mahdahurya rasa prabhupaada) jai rahda madatmahurry

[cbrahma]

Present ISKCON makes material life look good.

[Sarva gattah]

 

He highlights, "It's incredible that people put up with it."

This is because he doesn't understand the law of karma.

If people are born with this karma he mentions they feel intuitively that it is hopeless to change their situation and they just capitulate to their materially unfortunate situation.

This is another reason to propagate the chanting of the Holy Name, it immediately helps even the most fallen. In fact they would find out that it is the best situation for chanting they are presently in. But what can we do if even learned Vaishnavas have given up the vow to chant their rounds of japa?

 

Good points however. I only saw in that clip what was applicable to Krishna consciousness only. As devotees we know the choice to leave Krishna eventually puts us in situations where we are so over burdened with karma, practically we loose that ability to choose and are thrown around the material world like a boat is thrown around the sea without a rudder

The other points he made is the atmosphere around controlling others

I just abstracted out of that video clip a Krishna Conscious lesson that we can take from anyone if we are humble enough.

 

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=OnserZ...eature=related

Brilliant!! </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Svarupa]

 

The above is something that theist would see and like.

Also I went to Melbourne Temple at Lunchtime after months of travelling and saw the beautiful Deities and had some wonderful Maha prasad.

 

I then spoke to some of the devotees who have never even heard of Dandavat.com or Audarya Fellowship. I wasn't at all surprised, as this is the norm for Melbourne Temple, nothing really changes - I relished the Prasad and had memories of Prabhupada when he was here.

I new no one there and they did not know me.

It was almost as if I was in another body, an older more wiser body. I did not say much and just listened to this young devotee preach to me, he warned me that the Internet was too dangerous and said Temple devotees avoided it. I just listened and had memories of how the body I am in was also once a young 18-year-old devotee long ago

I did not say it to this young devotee but realized many of the lessons of humility, selflessness, compassion are still yet to be learned by many Temple devotees. In their isolation they deny themselves of many important lessons of how to balance sentiment and shastra and show genuine kindness to other living entities

I then left the sanctuary and isolation of ISKCON Melbourne, realizing such isolation is a definitely necessary part of indoctrinating training for all young and new devotees to be strong devotees. There is a serious problem however that often comes with such isolation, as ISKCON's colored history proves. In the past and even now more so than one thinks, many are used and exploited emotionally and psychologically in clever ways by others in leadership instead of nurturing them to be confident individual with strong self esteem and faith in Krishna. As the Youtube clip states, "by keeping people hopeless and pessimistic, you control them, first of all frighten people, then demoralize them" Lets face the facts, many ISKCON leaders still use these PUT DOWN tactics today to break the spirits of others and make them feel useless so they can control them under the disguise of 'making others humble' or 'surrender prabhu'.

 

It is this kind of self rightious nonsense they attempt to impose on others in the name of Krishna Consciousness, in the name of Prabhupadas ISKCON Movement, only keeps the movement stagnated, go to Dandavats live cam and also see Brisbane Temple live, out of a city of 2 million people, the Dandavats Cam reveals no more than 5 devotee chanting in the Temple room at one time in the morning.

 

ANYWAY I would never tolerate such patronising with what I know now.there is NO room for such arrogant tactics today or ever again in the future of ISKCON's development into a bonafide genuin world religion for the purpose of guiding others back Home, back to Godhead.

 

I further realized that the front line of preaching IS the Internet and the future of all preaching.

And like the rest of the material world, it is a very dangerous place.

 

 

 

Who's to Blame?

 

 

 

 

By Mahatma das

 

 

From the beginning of Prabhupada’s preaching in New York he spoke about the development of an international society, but his new followers couldn’t imagine Krsna consciousness going beyond the walls of the little storefront on 26 Second Avenue.

 

Fortunately Prabhupada didn’t share their vision. He had deep such deep faith in Lord Caitanya’s prediction and the instructions of his Guru Maharaja that he said the Krsna consciousness would someday go down in history for changing the world in its darkest hour.

 

There are reason’s Prabhupada thought this way, and in this article I examine one of the most essential: taking personally responsibility for making the world Krsna conscious. Instead of thinking people are not interested in Krsna consciousness, Prabhupda taught us to see that it is our fault that we cannot interest them.

 

This empowered way of thinking is at the heart of Prabhupada’s own success - and at the heart of our potential success.

Your servant,

Mahatma Das

 

It All Depends On Us

The preaching of the Gaudiya Math during Srila Bhaktisidhhanta’s life was so powerful that the most famous and prominent religious movement in Bengal at that time gradually lost its popularity. The Gaudiya Math publicly exposed the leader of this movement (he claimed to be an incarnation of Rama and Krsna) and proved that his teachings deviated from the conclusions of the Vedas.

 

However, shortly after the demise of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, that very same religious movement began gaining popularity and again became an influential force, misleading millions of people. Prabhupada said their success was the fault of the Gaudiya Matha.

 

Why?

 

Because after the departure of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta the preaching work of the Gaudiya Matha slackened.

 

About five years ago when I was living in Dallas, several people were shot to death at a weeknight church service. In responding to this incident the pastor of the church said to his congregation,

 

“We are all responsible for the death of those church members.”

 

He said the fact that there are people roaming the street who are so spiritually bankrupt that they would kill innocent people in a church service is a sign that our efforts to spread Christianity are failing.

 

I was impressed by his words. Basically he was saying the same thing that Prabhupada said about the Gaudiya Matha. When a devotee of the Lord sees godlessness in the world he doesn’t blame it on the people. Rather he blames it on the lack of spiritual guidance that is being given to the people. And what this really means is that you and I take responsibility for the lack of God consciousness in the world.

 

Prabhupada was once asked, “How far is Lord Caitanya’s prediction that His name will be heard in every town and village true?” He replied, “That depends on those who are preaching.”

 

I lived in Mauritius for several years and it was commonly accepted that Prabhupada said Mauritius would be the first Krsna conscious country in the world. However, I couldn’t find anyone who actually heard Prabhupada say that.

 

Finally, I was able to ask the man who hosted Prabhupada during his stay in Mauritius if he ever heard Prabhupada predict that Mauritius would become the first Krsna conscious country. He told me he never heard him say that. Then he paused for a minute and thought about it and said, “But I do remember him saying it could become the first Krsna conscious country in the world.”

 

Nothing is set in stone. Spreading Krsna consciousness depends on you and me.

 

In 1973 I was living in the San Diego temple and the preaching was rapidly expanding. We regularly reported our successes to Srila Prabhupada. He appreciated our service and in one letter to us made an amazing prediction.

 

“If we go on preaching vigorously as we have been for another 25 years, then all these other so called religions will disappear. After all what do they have to offer?” (letter to Bhakta dasa, 1973).

 

That letter has always weighed heavy in my mind. These other religions have far from disappeared.

 

What Does Our Desire Have To Do With It?

 

Prabhupada writes,

 

“The Supreme Personality of Godhead, influenced by the merciful devotees’ attempt to deliver fallen souls, enlightens the people in general from within by His causeless mercy.”

 

You have more influence over people’s spiritual lives than you might think.

Srila Prabhupada’s personal desire was that every person in the world become Krsna conscious.

 

However, when he was aboard the Jaladuta he was wondering how it would be possible for a civilization completely covered by ignorance and passion to understand the Vedic message. Thus he prayed to Krsna as the supersoul,

 

“I wish that You may deliver them. Therefore if You so desire their deliverance, then only will they be able to understand Your message.”

 

As it is said,

 

“Pray as if everything depends on God and act as if everything depends on you.” This is what Prabhupada did and Krsna definitely answered Prabhupada’s prayers.

 

Personal responsibility towards preaching is empowering. Prabhupada’s god-brothers went to preach in England in the 1920’s and came back saying that the westerners are too fallen to take up Krsna consciousness.

 

Fortunately, Prabhupada didn’t think this way. He took personal responsibility to spread Lord Caitanya’s mission.

 

Remember, ninety-nine percent of all failures come from people who have a habit of making excuses. If the world is not Krsna conscious, we need to look at ourselves.

 

Whenever devotees made excuses and told Prabhupada that people were not receptive or that they were difficult to preach to, Prabhupada always said that the problem was not with the people they were preaching to; the problem was with us.

 

What if I Am Not a Merciful Person?

 

But what if you don’t really feel the burden of the world like the great devotees do? You should – at least if you want to call yourself a human being. The Srimad Bhagavatam says that every human being is meant to be merciful. In a lecture in 1969, Prabhupada said, “So if we human beings, if we forget even ordinary mercy, compassion and gratefulness, then what is that human life?”

 

Gurudas relates that he was once told Prabhupada that he sometimes feels sorry for the people suffering in this material world. Prabhupada replied, “Why only sometimes?”

 

Once Bhumi, mother earth, was not producing enough food to feed the entire population of the world. When King Prithu asked her why she told him she didn’t want to feed all the demoniac people that lived on earth. Maharaja Prithu chastised her and was ready to kill her.

 

To protect herself she took the form of a cow thinking the king wouldn’t hurt a cow. But he continued to pursue her and said if a citizen is not compassionate on his fellow man, he or she may be killed by the king and such killing is never to be considered actual killing.

 

All I can say is, “Wow, that’s heavy!”

 

Prabhupada writes: “Even in the material field, if a person is not interested in other’s welfare, he should be considered to be condemned by the Personality of Godhead or his representative like Prithu Maharaja.”

What’s My Duty? So the implications of not caring about others are heavy. But it is even heavier for us. Why? It is said that with the gift of knowledge comes the obligation to give it to others. We have been given an immense treasure house of knowledge, so we are duty bound to see it is distributed.

“Although India has the sublime knowledge of Bhagavad-gita, Indians have not done their proper duty of distributing it.” (Srimad Bhagavatam, 10.2.19).

 

How many Indians realize that it is their “PROPER DUTY” to spread Vedic wisdom? Just by being Indian, by having this knowledge, Indians are duty bound to distribute it. In the early days of the movement, Prabhupada told his western disciples that since the Indians are not doing their duty, it is now your duty to distribute this knowledge.

 

Even at an initiation in 1966 Prabhupada he made this clear. He said that he is giving knowledge and the initiates are becoming obliged, by accepting initiation, to distribute it widely. He said this is their guru-daksina.

 

What Does Preaching Mean?

 

Before I go on, I want to clarify that I am not talking about preaching in any specific way. We can help others become Krsna conscious in unlimited ways. We all have some special gift to offer in Krsna’s service. Krsna consciousness means to connect with our inspiration and talents and use them in Krsna’s service to help the world.

 

To excite your imagination, I’d like to share with you one inspiring example of how this might be done. This is the mission of one successful author and speaker (who, by the way, became successful as a result of this mission statement).

 

“To create and inspire one million millionaires who each give one million dollars to their church or charity.”

 

Wouldn’t it be nice if a devotee had the same mission? There are so many projects and temples that could flourish with this kind of funding.

 

There are as many ways to serve Krsna as there are devotees. I’d like to share a quote that will hopefully get you thinking how you might be able to expand your service in some way.

 

“The greatest danger for most of us is not that our aim is too high and we miss it, but that it is too low and we reach it.” (MICHELANGELO)

What are You Asking For?

 

Lord Caitanya asked Nityananda Prabhu, “How can all the fallen souls be saved?”

What more could you be doing if you asked this question – and asked it often?

 

If you do regular service at the temple I am not in anyway minimizing that. I am just asking you to consider what more you can be doing by asking yourself how all the fallen souls can be saved.

 

If we as a society are to help the world, I believe it is essential that everyone of us ask ourselves this question continually.

Do We Really Care About Others?

 

I don’t think it is fruitful to ponder whether or not you really care that people are suffering without Krsna consciousness. We all care to one degree or another. The important question to ask is, “Do you care enough to do something about it?*

 

Let me share a thought that has always inspired me. I know that right now there are people somewhere whose lives I can touch by making a little personal sacrifice, by going out of my way to do something to further the mission of Krsna consciousness.

 

I may not know who those people are and I might never meet them; and I can’t always say how my efforts to spread Krsna consciousness will directly influence them. But I do know that doing nothing isn’t helping anyone.

 

There are people all over the world who want Krsna conscious. The reality is that the choices you and I make in our daily lives will determine whether some of them will get it or not.

 

* If we care about others we will take care of our own spiritual lives. Lord Caitanya said make your life successful and then make other’s lives successful. Physician, heal thyself. Devotees have often overextended themselves in the name of preaching and either eventually burned out or fell down as a result. Dead men don’t make good soldiers.

 

Exercise

 

The exercise was actually given above, but I will restate it again.

Ask yourself “What more can I do to make the world more Krsna conscious? How can all the fallen souls be saved?”

 

And never stop asking this question.

[realist]

 

 

 

The Melbourne Temple Aussi experience

 

 

 

Quote -"Some of the devotees had never even heard of Dandavat.com or Audarya Fellowship. I wasn't at all surprised as this is the norm for Melbourne Temple as nothing really changes

I then left the sanctuary and isolation of ISKCON Melbourne, realizing such isolation is a definitely necessary part of indoctrinating training for all young and new devotees to be strong devotees".

 

Or is it healthy?

 

Comment - Gurukulis and many ordinary struggling devotees in the past, were patronized, used and exploited so much while growing up in ISKCON, they only found that they couldn’t leave, even if they wanted to.

 

They where like caged birds being let out of captivity only to find that they could not survive without the cage, without ISKCON. Ha ha ha ha ha - I can hear ISKCON Hardliners and fools laughing at this but they do not understand the HEAVY repercussions?? Which only means nothing has changed, they're always up to there old tricks of somehow manipulating others.

 

Many devotees could never adjust to the world around them - I would never ever send anyone to join Melbourne Temple because of this predicament that often comes with such isolation imposed by arrogent, judgemental, self rightious 'so called' leaders, sanyasis, guru's and immature uneducated adjudicatory Temple devotees, as ISKCON's coloured history proves.

 

However I would and still do sent people, mostly the hindu's and Siks I met, to the Temple to see Prabhupada and the beautiful Dieties and take Prasad, but always warn them to be careful.

Quote - "In the past and even now more so than one thinks, many are used and exploited emotionally and psychologically in clever ways by others in leadership instead of nurturing them to be confident individual with strong self esteem and faith in Krishna.

 

As the Youtube clip states, "by keeping people hopeless and pessimistic, you control them, first of all frighten people, then demoralize them"

 

Lets face the facts, many ISKCON leaders still use these PUT DOWN tactics today to break the spirits of others and make them feel useless so they can control them under the disguise of 'making others humble' or 'surrender Prabhu'".

 

It is this kind of self righteous nonsense they attempt to impose on others in the name of Krishna Consciousness, in the name of Prabhupada’s ISKCON Movement, only keeps the movement stagnated"

 

Comment - Go to Dandavats live cam and also see Brisbane Temple live, out of a city of 2 million people, the Dandavats Cam reveals no more than 5 devotee chanting in the Temple room at one time in the morning".

 

ANYWAY I would never tolerate such patronising attitudes with what I know now. I would militantly cleverly fight strongly against such impersonalism because there is NO room for such arrogant tactics that guru’s, sannyasis, temple authorities and their ‘yes’ followers, still use today.

 

The future of ISKCON's REAL development into a bonafide genuine world religion for the purpose of guiding others Back Home, Back to Godhead, is based on simply being Krsna Conscious and understanding that EVERYONE is originally Krsna's dear devotee - something the immature personal at Melbourne Temple have not learnt and still are a long, long way of understanding.

 

 

 

Below is the real ISKCON MENTALITY

 

 

Let me share a thought that has always inspired me. I know that right now there are people somewhere whose lives I can touch by making a little personal sacrifice, by going out of my way to do something to further the mission of Krsna consciousness.

I may not know who those people are and I might never meet them; and I can’t always say how my efforts to spread Krsna consciousness will directly influence them. But I do know that doing nothing isn’t helping anyone.

 

There are people all over the world who want Krsna conscious. The reality is that the choices you and I make in our daily lives will determine whether some of them will get it or not.

 

* If we care about others we will take care of our own spiritual lives. Lord Caitanya said make your life successful and then make other’s lives successful. Physician, heal thyself. Devotees have often overextended themselves in the name of preaching and either eventually burned out or fell down as a result. Dead men don’t make good soldiers.

 

Exercise

 

The exercise was actually given above, but I will restate it again.

Ask yourself “What more can I do to make the world more Krsna conscious? How can all the fallen souls be saved?”

 

And never stop asking this question.

[realist]

 

Actually being Vaishnava is not cheap, we are all aspiring Vaishnavas, a real selfless inspiring Vaishnava is very, very rare because he sees the full potential of all living entities as being devotees of Krishna, he or she sees beyond the bodily identity of race, color or condition of all others.

This is the point I am making, does one see the material body or the soul? The devotee within? – Only a real Vaishnava can understand this and see the real truth and know how to treat all others.

 

 

 

It All Depends on YOU

 

The preaching of the Gaudiya Math during Srila Bhaktisidhhanta’s life was so powerful that the most famous and prominent religious movement in Bengal at that time gradually lost its popularity. The Gaudiya Math publicly exposed the leader of this movement (he claimed to be an incarnation of Rama and Krsna) and proved that his teachings deviated from the conclusions of the Vedas.

However, shortly after the demise of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta, that very same religious movement began gaining popularity and again became an influential force, misleading millions of people. Prabhupada said their success was the fault of the Gaudiya Matha.

Why?

Because after the departure of Srila Bhaktisiddhanta the preaching work of the Gaudiya Matha slackened.

 

[Kulapavana]

IMO the initial rapid expansion of ISKCON was not sustainable because the movement was not training it's members properly, there was no sustainable and accountable management structure or economic basis, and the movement was making promises to it's members which were overly optimistic to the maximum.

 

It was a pyramid scheme that went bust on unfulfilled promises and on greed and incompetency of it's leaders. Thos who want to go back to the way it was are just daydreamers who do not understand what really happened. There were tons of similar "flash in the pan" religious movements in the past.

 

The calls to do more preaching are nice but what kind of preaching should it be? More bogus claims and more empty promises like before? Hardly... we must go back to the essence of our tradition and to the core teachings of our sampradaya. This is no longer the 1960's and 70's - the old approach does not work and the empty temples are a proof of that.

[realist]

 

IMO the initial rapid expansion of ISKCON was not sustainable because the movement was not training it's members properly, there was no sustainable and accountable management structure or economic basis, and the movement was making promises to it's members which were overly optimistic to the maximum.

 

It was a pyramid scheme that went bust on unfulfilled promises and on greed and incompetency of it's leaders. Thos who want to go back to the way it was are just daydreamers who do not understand what really happened. There were tons of similar "flash in the pan" religious movements in the past.

 

The calls to do more preaching are nice but what kind of preaching should it be? More bogus claims and more empty promises like before? Hardly... we must go back to the essence of our tradition and to the core teachings of our sampradaya. This is no longer the 1960's and 70's - the old approach does not work and the empty temples are a proof of that.

 

Finally there is something we can agree on, we may disagree on some philosophical points but ultimately it does not matter how we got here, we somehow must learn what are the real qualifications of a genuine devotee of Krsna is and what a real humble selfless non judgemental Vaishnava really is.

 

A real Vaishnava first sees EVEYONE is a devotee and does not try to make this material world his home or think that he, she and others are the material bodies they are in.

Melbourne Temple is a joke because most cannot understand they are not their material bodies, it like visiting a Hindu Temple where such Hindus are no different than Christians, who are at church for the social side of religion, for material blessings and pray for their daily bread for personal selfish gain. ISKCON is not meant for becoming another Hindu Temple so the Hindu's can have their Holi celebrations, what's next, India's independence day?

 

This is why ISKCON is stagnant and never grows, of course except for the majority of Hindu students who go there who have recently over flooded Australia and especially Melbourne whom I also talk to everyday and send to the Temple.

 

As far as the devotees being converted from the white or European Australians are concerned, it has been stagnated and isolated for Years, the libraries are empty of Prabhupada's books, you never see Prabhupada’s books in Book Shops, most of the householder devotees look like Karmis because they never wear devotional clothing outside the Temple. Go to the suburbs of any Australian city, hardly anyone has heard of or see the Hare Krishnas anymore.

 

The householders are too busy watching ‘Desperate house wife’s’ and the ‘Footy Show on TV’ or the VFL or NRL game of the day on TV. And they call themselves Vaishnava’s, they can't even understand they are not the material bodies they occupy, so how can they understand all the bodily vessels they see, is containing a soul forgetful of Krsna?

 

 

And back at their cosy secluded Temple in Danks Street Melbourne THEY think they are spreading Krishna consciousness - to whom? The Hindus who came and help serve out the feast to their fellow Hindus? Not that there is anything wrong with that however, it is the Australian public the Melbourne ISKCON Temple should be reaching also, THIS IS WHY PRABHUPADA CAME TO THE WEST.

[seamusjcarroll]

the truth is very common ,would you like to be happy , yes , how , love krishna , so much blah blah , at some point we finish talking and start building , practical , bahkti can not hide , because pleasure always shows ,it is time for us all to get on with the job, we only live in the moment , and what you place there you get , surrender your minds to percieving krishna everywher all the time , and if you can stand as ajuna if you cant do as ajuna still be brave and do your duty as best you can , some one must know something by now about bahkti some may have developed qualities or even skills where are they are you 1 do you know 1 , i would love to be a fly on the wall , and listen to devotees speak the truth , sins to hope , fear to love , prabhupada said do the work and success is garanteed, who is doing the work , and has any one had any sucess , love prabhupada be a friend to all , teach what you know , and reveal what you learn , as everything teaches you , no high no low , who is hiding from who , when krishna knows all

[realist]

I found your post very hard to follow, are you from India?

 

It is very nice to write however, type out you spiel in Word first, correct the spelling and punctuation mistakes, then copy and move to Notepad, then copy again and paste in the thread you want to comment on.

 

Hari Bol

[seamusjcarroll]

thank you for your help , but please comment on the content ,i come to these forums to see how personel the laguage is , krishna is 100% personel , so is prabhupada , still here giving us instruction in the moment , right now , the more personel we become , the clearer the vision , we must all come togeather as a family , and protect the children and women , and protect the devotee with trancendental knowledge , prepared to show love to all creation without separation , oneness and differance same time , love makes one diferent the same as krihna resides in all , serve the servant and be ever busy pleasing prabhupada your servant seamus j carroll

[Ganeshprasad]

 

Melbourne Temple is a joke because most cannot understand they are not their material bodies, it like visiting a Hindu Temple where such Hindus are no different than Christians, who are at church for the social side of religion, for material blessings and pray for their daily bread for personal selfish gain. ISKCON is not meant for becoming another Hindu Temple so the Hindu's can have their Holi celebrations, what's next, India's independence day?

 

This is why ISKCON is stagnant and never grows, of course except for the majority of Hindu students who go there who have recently over flooded Australia and especially Melbourne whom I also talk to everyday and send to the Temple.

 

As far as the devotees being converted from the white or European Australians are concerned, it has been stagnated and isolated for Years.

 

Pranam

 

I detect a serious Hindu phobia, now you want to blame Hindus for Iskcon failures, just go ahead, we can take it, after all we withstood worse form of atrocities and abuse then you can ever imagine in keeping the Dharma intact.

What’s wrong with holi I wonder, a past time of Prahlad Maharaj his triumph over Holica.

 

Your statement is nothing sort of racial abuse, you prefer your temples to be filled by white faces, it pains you to see Indians at the temples, why don’t you put a sign up saying no Indians, problem solved.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

[realist]

 

Pranam

 

I detect a serious Hindu phobia, now you want to blame Hindus for Iskcon failures, just go ahead, we can take it, after all we withstood worse form of atrocities and abuse then you can ever imagine in keeping the Dharma intact.

What’s wrong with holi I wonder, a past time of Prahlad Maharaj his triumph over Holica.

 

Your statement is nothing sort of racial abuse, you prefer your temples to be filled by white faces, it pains you to see Indians at the temples, why don’t you put a sign up saying no Indians, problem solved.

 

Jai Shree Krishna

 

Quote:

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="BORDER-RIGHT: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-RIGHT: 3ex; BORDER-TOP: #666666 1px solid; PADDING-LEFT: 3ex; BORDER-LEFT: #666666 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #666666 1px solid" bgColor=#e0e0e0>Originally Posted by realist

And back at their cosy secluded Temple in Danks Street Melbourne THEY think they are spreading Krishna consciousness - to whom? The Hindus who come and help serve out the feast to their fellow Hindus?

 

Not that there is anything wrong with that however, it is the Australian public the Melbourne ISKCON Temple should be reaching also, THIS IS WHY PRABHUPADA CAME TO THE WEST.

 

 

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

Ganeshprasad I am not criticising Hindus, in fact it's a very good thing they attend the Temple, even though many want material blessings they are used to praying for back in India.

The purpose of ISKCON is not to just covert the converted (the Hindus ONLY) but to covert the Aussi's and bring in thousands of Australians of all religions , colours and creeds to Lord Caitanya's Movement. Krishna is the creator and maintainer of everyone, not just Indians or Hindus.

 

THIS IS WHY SRILA PRABHUPADA CAME TO THE WEST.

 

As far as Holi is concerned, Srila Prabhupada, did not introduce Holi, bringing in such festivals waters down what Srila Prabhupada gave us. It does not represent what HE gave us. It changes HIS mission. If Srila Prabhupada considered this important, HE would have done so. Purity (to what Prabhupada set up and gave us) is the Force.

 

Srila Prabhupad told the GBC - just Maintain what he had given us. If they could have just done this, ISKCON would still be Vaikuntha. Unfortunately for many older Prabhupada disciples, it has become too much Hinduized.... Hindus are our great friends, but, we don't need to become one with them.

 

Or as explained by Akruranatha prabhu -

 

"It is interesting to read that traditionally in India the brahmacaris, sannyasis, and widows do not play with Holi colors. That might explain why most of my experiences in ISKCON have been that devotees are not very enthusiastic about it. When I have been in India during Holi mostly people warn me to stay indoors or at least to avoid wearing expensive clothes out on the street.

 

But it always seemed like such a joyous holiday, and connected as it is to Prahlad Maharaja and also Krishna’s pastimes, I wondered why we were always so cool about it, not spreading dyes on each other. It may be that we are more renunciation-oriented and as Mother Gandhari points out, it is more of a householder, sense-enjoyment affirming festival".

 

Hare Krsna

[realist]

Srila Prabhupada - "I don't like that idea. Some Hindus are supporting. I don't want a Hindu temple. Our constitution is different. We want everyone, Krsna consciousness is for everyone. It is not a Hindu propaganda. People may not misunderstand. And actually, till now in our society there is not a single other Hindu than me. (laughter) Is that not?" Meeting with Devotees - June 9, 1969, New Vrindaban"