Are you sectarian?

[atbas]

Analyse it with the help of this questionnaire.

 

Use your common sense. If this questionnaire helps you to be less sectarian it will serve a good purpose. If you feel offended please excuse us, that was not the purpose :-)

 

Take it with humour; broad-mindedness is required to cope with the worldwide expanding mission of the Vaisnavas.

 

"There is nothing more contradictory then preaching about divine love while still maintaining a sectarian attitude."

Srila Bhaktivinoda Thakura

 

 

1. Do you believe or teach that only members of your Vaisnava mission have a chance to reach secret esoteric areas of the divine reality?

 

2. Are the members of your mission allowed to read books of other contemporary Vaisnava authors, even though they may not be from the mission you belong to?

 

3. Are the students of your mission being taught to show the same respect to renunciants of other missions as they are taught to show to the renunciants in your mission?

 

4. Do you feel non-sectarian and do you act accordingly?

 

5. Do you believe that the Supersoul guides and protects people with other religious beliefs?

 

6. Are the members of your mission taught hypocrisy by being told to be polite with those you talk badly about in private?

 

7. Do you eat together with those who are not of your caste or clan?

 

8. Do you allow others to explain their opinion even if it may be different from yours?

 

9. Do they teach in your mission that access to divinity depends on membership in a particular institution and are they limiting grace for those who follow the exact or similar teaching or rituals as you do?

 

10. What is the real difference between blind fanatic belief and enlightened faith?

Pick your answer:

A. The real versus the apparent.

B: not much difference.

C: dramatically different.

D: different levels on the path to saintliness.

 

11. Do they discriminate the donations they receive according to their origin?

( Would they accept a donation coming from sinful activities conducted specially to make money for the donation )

 

12. Do you believe that holy tirthas can be managed like private properties?

 

13. Do you believe that the holy dhama should be protected from sinful activities and unrestricted business interests?

 

14. Do you believe that the dhama should only be open to practising Vaisnavas?

 

15. Do you believe that financial power should be allowed to interfere with the interest and the needs of other missions present in the dhama?

 

16. Is is acceptable that brahmacaris collect money for the mission with pretexts which are below suddha bhakti?

 

17. Would you allow devotees to keep a commission of the donations they collect?

 

18. Do you believe that devotees can chant the glory of God in their local language and derive the same benefit from it as when chanting in Sanskrit or Bengali ?

 

19. Do you teach people to respect all others and to not disturb their faith?

 

20. Can you think of Krishna when you see buildings erected by another religious group for their worship?

 

21. Would you eat vegetarian food offered to you by a friendly person that was not offered?

Pick your answer.

A. I would first offer it.

B: I consider it send by the mercy of my guru and accept it.

C :I would not eat it at all.

 

22. Do you believe that a person has to take a certain birth to become a Brahmana?

 

23. Do you restrict people from certain services due to their birth?

 

24. Do you make efforts that other people may find out about your sacred faith?

 

25. Do you believe that Guru and Krishna are more partial towards you then to others?

 

26. Do you believe that the same God inspires different people in different faith traditions to talk about him?

 

27. Do you accept the principle of Guru-tattva and want to qualify yourself and many other to be able to act as sat Gurus- those who keep the disciplic chain intact?

 

28. Do you teach that spiritual advancement depends on initiation by a specific Guru?

 

29. Do you treat people more friendly because they put on the same tilak as you?

 

30. Do you show some respect to a guru of another Vaisnava to encourage his guru bhakti?

 

31. Are you taught or do you teach others about the universal principle of Guru Tattva, the plurality of teachers in our sampradaya, the nature of representing Srila Vyasadeva etc. ?

 

32. Do you know or would you allow others to know about the history and diversity of vaisnavism? ( How vaisnavism has spread by the input of many Vaisnava-missions, which were started by great pioneers ... )

 

33. Do you actively participate in meetings which are meant to develop and promote the common goals of Vaisnavas?

 

34. Would you like to participate and present your faith on a inter-religious platform?

 

35. Should the new discoveries of science and the social developments be explained in the light of Vaisnava teachings, to help the Vaisnava community cope with the changing world?

 

36. Are the brahmins in your mission to be informed about the basic news of the mundane world?

 

37. Do you care about the environmental situation? Would you like to do something about dumping of plastic in the holy dhamas and holy rivers such as Ganga or Yamuna?

 

38. Are you trying to clean the road in front of your temples or ashrams?

 

39. Do you think that littering is an offence against mother earth?

 

40. Do you think it is important that the products used for offerings to your thakurji come

from an organic farm, which does not use chemical pesticides or poisonous fertilizers?

 

41. Do you feel happy when you hear about the success of other vaisnava missions?

 

42. Do you promote reading journals or websites which are presenting all vaisnava missions as equally important?

 

43. To which Vaisnava institution do Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu or his pure devotees belong?

 

44. Do you teach or have you learned that there are big and small Gurus whose messages have thus big or small importance?

 

45. Do you allow your mind to see other vaisnavas according to their birth?

 

46. Are you allowed and do you generalize, minimize or treat with prejudice, members of other vaisnava missions?

 

47. Would you accept a devotee who has committed an offence and asked to be forgiven?

 

48. Do you believe that the Holy Name can purify a person of all mistakes he may have committed in the past?

 

49. Do you find it feasible that members of one mission help in the service of other Vaisnava-missions?

 

50. Would you eat the food offered to Krishna by an initiated person who was born in the "non hindu" world?

 

51. Have you ever heard of claims that only one mission has the right to publish and distribute the teachings of a Guru?

 

52. Do you think the truth (sastras, photos or instructions of spiritual masters) can be restricted for the use of others through a "copyright" claim?

 

 

Please look deep into your feelings and meditate on your behaviour.

Is there some sectarianism which could disturb the spiritual advancement of both, yourself and others who are learning from you?

 

This questionnaire is only for self evaluation.

It is not for pointing fingers at anyone or to make anyone feel bad.

We need to appreciate all those who sincerely search for God. What to speak of those who belong to our same parivara, chant the same mantras, read the same books and worship the same holy deities, holy places and holy sages.

 

Praying to be of service

Swami B.A. Paramadvaiti</pre>

[bija]

I was reading these questions one by one and began to 'like what I was reading'.

 

Then I saw the signature at the bottom and realized why.

 

All blessings to your Srila Guru Maharaja. Thanks.

[cbrahma]

These questions almost speak for themselves.

Sectarian wars must be the furthest thing from Vaisnavism.

[theist]

I really like this. A call for more honest introspection and evaluation can only be a valuable thing.

 

 

5. Do you believe that the Supersoul guides and protects people with other religious beliefs?

[indulekhadasi]

Number 5 is very obvious. The Lord even protects atheists what to speak of people who believe in Him. The thing is that there is a much closer relationship between devotees of the Lord and the Supreme Lord.

[theist]

 

Number 5 is very obvious. The Lord even protects atheists what to speak of people who believe in Him. The thing is that there is a much closer relationship between devotees of the Lord and the Supreme Lord.

 

And by devotees do you mean those who have the same religious beliefs as you?

[suchandra]

 

And by devotees do you mean those who have the same religious beliefs as you?

Devotees having a religious believe?

When people are hungry and by eating they feel their hunger being satisfied, can this be called a believe, to eat? No, of course not, it is rather an undisputed requirement.

This is also the meaning of genuine spiritual life, it is above dispute, it is the original need of the soul.

 

Prabhupāda: But then why you are asking about guru? You do not know what is happiness.

Mike Barron: Can you tell me?

Prabhupāda: Yes. Your happiness is that you do not like to die: you die. That is your distress. You do not like to become old man: you become old. So that is stated in the Bhagavad-gītā. This is unhappiness. Janma-mṛtyu-jarā-vyādhi-duḥkha-doṣānudarśanam. That is intelligence, that “I do not want death. Why death comes upon me? Where is my happiness?” This knowledge will lead you to understand what is happiness. But if you remain ignorant like animal, you do not know what is happiness, and if you think, “The dog is having sex. I’ll have sex. That is happiness,” then where is the difference, dog mentality and your mentality?

Mike Barron: And Krishna consciousness can help me attain this?

Prabhupāda: Yes, that is Kṛṣṇa consciousness. He knows, “This dog’s mentality of eating, sleeping, sex and defense is not my happiness. My real distress is that I do not want to die; I am being forced to die. So how to escape from this position?” That is happiness.

Mike Barron: Thank you.

 

 

Room Conversation

with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

April 20, 1976, Melbourne

[theist]

 

Devotees having a religious believe?

When people are hungry and by eating they feel their hunger being satisfied, can this be called a believe, to eat? No, of course not, it is rather an undisputed requirement.

This is also the meaning of genuine spiritual life, it is above dispute, it is the original need of the soul.

 

Seeking disagreement for argument's sake suchandra?

 

The original question:

 

5. Do you believe that the Supersoul guides and protects people with other religious beliefs?

 

 

 

<!-- BEGIN TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> Quote:

<table border="0" cellpadding="6" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px solid rgb(102, 102, 102); padding-left: 3ex; padding-right: 3ex;" bgcolor="#e0e0e0"> Originally Posted by indulekhadasi

Number 5 is very obvious. The Lord even protects atheists what to speak of people who believe in Him. The thing is that there is a much closer relationship between devotees of the Lord and the Supreme Lord.

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

<!-- END TEMPLATE: bbcode_quote --> My question to Indulekhadasi:

 

 

And by devotees do you mean those who have the same religious beliefs as you?

 

 

 

Perhaps theological beliefs would be a better term. I used religious because the original used religious.

 

To avoid confusion I will restate the question.

 

And by devotees do you mean those who have the same religious(theological) beliefs as you?

[bija]

Number 5 is very obvious. The Lord even protects atheists what to speak of people who believe in Him. The thing is that there is a much closer relationship between devotees of the Lord and the Supreme Lord. posted by Indulekhadasi

Jaya Nitaai! All living entities sure are most fortunate that the Supreme Personality of Godhead is an Absolute Entity of relationship. And once the tiny sparks awaken to their real identity a realm of close intimacy between the absolute whole and the part develops.

 

It is the duty of all simple vaisnavas to show compassion to all living entities and somehow encourage them to awaken to what is true. A life of love and relationship with Reality the Beautiful. Jaya Sri Krsna! As the Lord says, there is none more dear to Him than one who shares this secret with the devotees. From this I gather that the Lord loves all his parts and parcels unlimitedly.

 

Jaya Vaisnava Thakura!

 

BG 12.13-14: One who is not envious but is a kind friend to all living entities, who does not think himself a proprietor and is free from false ego, who is equal in both happiness and distress, who is tolerant, always satisfied, self-controlled, and engaged in devotional service with determination, his mind and intelligence fixed on Me — such a devotee of Mine is very dear to Me.

BG 12.15: He for whom no one is put into difficulty and who is not disturbed by anyone, who is equipoised in happiness and distress, fear and anxiety, is very dear to Me.

BG 12.16: My devotee who is not dependent on the ordinary course of activities, who is pure, expert, without cares, free from all pains, and not striving for some result, is very dear to Me.

BG 12.17: One who neither rejoices nor grieves, who neither laments nor desires, and who renounces both auspicious and inauspicious things — such a devotee is very dear to Me.

BG 12.18-19: One who is equal to friends and enemies, who is equipoised in honor and dishonor, heat and cold, happiness and distress, fame and infamy, who is always free from contaminating association, always silent and satisfied with anything, who doesn't care for any residence, who is fixed in knowledge and who is engaged in devotional service — such a person is very dear to Me.

BG 12.20: Those who follow this imperishable path of devotional service and who completely engage themselves with faith, making Me the supreme goal, are very, very dear to Me.

 

 

 

 

BG 18.68: For one who explains this supreme secret to the devotees, pure devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me.

BG 18.69: There is no servant in this world more dear to Me than he, nor will there ever be one more dear.

 

From Srila Bhaktivinoda Vani Vaibhava:

4. What is the proof of a Vaisnava's compassion toward the living entities?

Until a living entity's good fortune has been awakened, his propensity to serve Krsna does not arise. Helping the living entities awaken their good fortune is the only proof of a Vaisnava's compassion toward them. (Sajjana Tosanl 4/8)

5. How does a Vaisnava show compassion toward living entities?

The main activity of a Vaisnava is to incline living entities toward serving Lord Krsna. Whenever curing diseases or satisfying the body's hunger becomes the main objective, it is to be understood that there is a lack of Vaisnavism there. This is because by such activities, the living entities receive only temporary relief, not eternal relief. Whenever such activities are directed to help the living entities inclination towards Krsna, however, the Vaisnavas take pleasure in them. (Sajjana Tosanl 4/8)

[suchandra]

 

 

To avoid confusion I will restate the question.

 

And by devotees do you mean those who have the same religious(theological) beliefs as you?

Well, what can be done, your believe is that monkey gave birth to man...

 

Prabhupāda: ......they are simply placing some bogus theory without any authorized statement: “All of a sudden monkey once gave birth.” And where is that authority?

Harikeśa: Monkey?

Prabhupāda: “Monkey gave birth to man, all of a sudden, millions of years…” Now, what is the support of your statement? Then anyone can say anything and it becomes science. You have no support. You are the first man. You are saying like this, nonsense. Where is your support? You are support of your statement? Then everyone will say, “I have got some statement, and I support. I am the support.”

Harikeśa: That’s what they do.

Prabhupāda: That is…

Harikeśa: That’s how you become a big scientist. (end)

 

Room Conversation

with His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

October 14, 1975, Johannesburg

751014rc.joḥ

[indulekhadasi]

To theist:

 

Devotee means anyone who believes in the Lord and wants to develop a loving relationship with him. It doesn't matter which religion he/she belongs to.

[theist]

Agreed. That is non-secatarian.

[theist]

 

Well, what can be done, your believe is that monkey gave birth to man...

 

What a stupid thing to say. I have never said any such thing. You are starting to sound like a monkey.

[theist]

From the Lord's perspective what would be the difference between a soul's praying for mercy whose body happens to be wearing a Christian or Islamic suit or even of no religion affiliation at all and one wearing a suit compossed of dhoti and tilak?

 

Most Christians, Hindus and Muslims think God only hears their prayers or at least gives more weight to their prayers over the other groups. Prabhupada's teachings are transcendental to this type infantile thought.

[suchandra]

 

You are starting to sound like a monkey.

Thanks, yes, since this is a Vaishnava forum, feel free to say and believe what you like!

 

Theist: "It should be said that I don't accept all the stories in the Bhagavatam as literal as most here do. Or the Mahabharata either. I don't believe in a literal battle of Kuruksetra for example which leaves me outside the fold and awkwardly in a position opposite the Gaudiya Acaryas."

 

Prabhupada: But how you can prove nonviolence from Bhagavad-gītā? Because Bhagavad-gītā is being spoken in the violent battlefield. But because he wanted to prove nonviolence, therefore he says, “Oh, these Pāṇḍavas means this. This Krishna means this. This chariot means this. These Kurus means this. Dharmakṣetra means this. Kurukṣetra means this.” He has invented and manufactured so many rascal meaning that it is very difficult… He said that dharmakṣetre… In the beginning of Bhagavad-gītā there is the verse, dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ [Bg. 1.1]. Now the very word yuyutsavaḥ means persons who are desiring to fight with one another. Now, how you can prove nonviolence? But he extracts some meaning: “These Pāṇḍava means five senses and the Kurukṣetra means this body.” In this way, his interpretation.Therefore, all different interpretation… The Vedic literature, either take Bhāgavata or Śrīmad Bhagavad-gītā, or any Upaniṣad, the meaning is very clear. It is sheer foolishness to understand that “The meaning is vague, now I am clearing. I am a great scholar. I can interpret in a different way.” So… As if Vyāsadeva left the meaning to be cleared by some rascal. You see? He was not himself competent to clear the meaning, but he left the work to be done by some rascal. That is their interpretation. But actually it is not. In every śloka, if you know Sanskrit, you’ll see the meaning is clear. Just like in the Bhagavad-gītā, dharmakṣetre kurukṣetre samavetā yuyutsavaḥ [Bg. 1.1].

 

Śrī Caitanya-caritāmṛta, Madhya-līlā 25.40-50

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

San Francisco, January 24, 1967

670124CC.SF

[RadheRade1657]

I really like this little quiz. It brings to the fore a lot of sectarian issues we've been having here at Audarya.

Jai Radhey-Krishna ki Jai! Jai Nitai Gauranga! Jaya Jai Shiv-Parivar! Jaya Jai Mariam-Yeshu! Jaya Jai Buddha!

And Victory to all the true teachers of our world!

[theist]

 

Thanks, yes, since this is a Vaishnava forum, feel free to say and believe what you like!

Thanks for the permission slip. At least I am honest and in touch with my areas of doubt and disagreement. I position I prefer to being a parrot.

 

Again I need to remind you I have never said I am a Vaisnava I leave that posturing to others.

[Malati dasi]

Theist said: From the Lord's perspective what would be the difference between a soul's praying for mercy whose body happens to be wearing a Christian or Islamic suit or even of no religion affiliation at all and one wearing a suit compossed of dhoti and tilak?

 

Malati : The difference is the degree of surrender. In the Gita, Lord Krishna says to the effect that as much as you surrender to me that much I give you the intimate knowledge by which you can come to me.

[Malati dasi]

Theist in answer to Suchandra: Thanks for the permission slip. At least I am honest and in touch with my areas of doubt and disagreement. I position I prefer to being a parrot.

 

Again I need to remind you I have never said I am a Vaisnava I leave that posturing to others.

 

 

Malati : To be a parrot is a good thing so long as you abide by this: Shastra, Guru and Sadhu.

 

I believe that to think that paramatma is talking to us or directing us all the time is deception of the highest order. The worst kind is self-deception.

[Malati dasi]

Theist : Most Christians, Hindus and Muslims think God only hears their prayers or at least gives more weight to their prayers over the other groups. Prabhupada's teachings are transcendental to this type infantile thought.

 

 

Malati: Being a Vaishnava, SP also expounds the idea that Krishna's Rasa lila is the most intimate knowledge about God given to the most surrrendered devotee through revelations in the shastras. As you very well know that knowledge is not available in any revealed scriptures except through Krishna's line.

 

Just my practical thoughts, the whole concept of the practices of Gvism hopes to give rise to nistha or being fixed on one's devotional path which by the mercy of a guru will lead us to the surpreme goal which is prema.

 

Of course, respect for others, their opinions, preferences and choices are not only part of Vaishanava etiquette but also common sense if we want to live in an orderly world. Moreover, they are protected by human rights legislation especially in democratice countries.

 

 

 

 

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[bija]

Just my practical thoughts, the whole concept of the practices of Gvism hopes to give rise to nistha or being fixed on one's devotional path which by the mercy of a guru will lead us to the surpreme goal which is prema. by malati dasi

This quote Mataji is very beautiful and deep. If somehow we can attain that nistha (steadiness) by grace of Gurudeva we are most fortunate. Thank you for reminding me of this. Jaya Gurudeva!

How can that day ever be without the mercy of sadhu sanga? Wherever the mercy of that top class association is, wherever it is reaching out to us, we gotta go! And leave sectarian considerations behind. The hearts longing will lead us beyond such sectarian affairs I am sure. The sweet sound of Krsna katha is much more attractive.

'sraddha to sadhu-sanga to bhajana-kriya to anartha-nrvriti to nistha to ruci to asakti to bhava to prema'

[theist]

 

Theist said: From the Lord's perspective what would be the difference between a soul's praying for mercy whose body happens to be wearing a Christian or Islamic suit or even of no religion affiliation at all and one wearing a suit compossed of dhoti and tilak?

 

Malati : The difference is the degree of surrender. In the Gita, Lord Krishna says to the effect that as much as you surrender to me that much I give you the intimate knowledge by which you can come to me.

 

Yes but that is an individual consideration and not one based on religious or non-religious affiliation. Krsna did not tell Arjuna to join any one particular religion, He told him to abandon them all.

[theist]

 

Theist in answer to Suchandra: Thanks for the permission slip. At least I am honest and in touch with my areas of doubt and disagreement. I position I prefer to being a parrot.

 

Again I need to remind you I have never said I am a Vaisnava I leave that posturing to others.

 

 

Malati : To be a parrot is a good thing so long as you abide by this: Shastra, Guru and Sadhu.

The problem is a parrot does not understand what it is saying. Becoming a parrot or an echo is not self realization.

 

I believe that to think that paramatma is talking to us or directing us all the time is deception of the highest order. The worst kind is self-deception

I would suggest rereading the Bhagavad-gita. There you will learn that Supersoul is directing the wanderings of ALL conditioned souls.

 

 

The Supreme Lord is situated in everyone's heart, O Arjuna, and is directing the wanderings of all living entities, who are seated as on a machine, made of the material energy. Bg 18.61

 

Not to hear Supersoul is the worst kind of self-deception.

[bija]

Theist said: From the Lord's perspective what would be the difference between a soul's praying for mercy whose body happens to be wearing a Christian or Islamic suit or even of no religion affiliation at all and one wearing a suit compossed of dhoti and tilak? quote by theist

This is a very good question actually. I feel the dress may be important for t he devotional life of the practicioner. But to God I dont think dress and other cultural forms really matter. It is just the devotion isn't it?

 

You are right on the mark here, that devotion is universal sanatana dharma.

 

Everything else is secondary and of some benefit to the practicioner. But to God, what does he want? ....

[bija]

Oh and by the way theist I just had a realization from supersoul:eek:

 

'You really dig these discussions dont you?' I do:)