Gaea Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Salaam All! (just to have a different greeting ) I haven't posted here in YEARS, but I've popped in now and again to see the odd discussion - the same battles are still raging, which is good to see since it means everyone is at least a seeker. Here's a question that buzzed between my sister and I - and one I remember posting here about 5 years ago under a different name... Still no closer to an answer... What is Love? How do I Love? These are absolutely fundamental questions (to me at least) - I really do try to experience Love (I equate it with Bhakti, some may disagree with that though) but just get seem to get the floodgates open. Any thoughts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Azwibagan Gaea!!! Love is a great subject matter, and I think it goes well with bhakti. For the last three days I have been thinking of posting the same topic 'what is love'. So thx! I think love is 'ever-new'. With a depth that has no limits. And being a human is way cool to discover what it is! The more we awaken to love to Krsna I think we awaken to love everything that is Krsna. And Krsna is everything. It is late at night here, and I cant quite express what I feel about love. But I know one thing in my heart, discovering love is a journey for eternity...and that is quite a blissful thought. So bliss and all things like that are in relation to love. There are some things about love I dont think we even talk about....and if we do say some things we are in good company. nagabiwzA to you dear Gaea;) How do I love??? If you know how that desire can be fulfilled let me know. I must be off to think about Krsna and His beautiful form. Cheerio! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 (Easter Saturday 22nd March 2008) by bija He called out to me.... but I could not see. Then a cool breeze touched my cheeks. He looked at me... but I could not feel. Then the midday sun warmed my skin. He touched me... but I could not hold such tenderness. Then the songbirds song filled the air! Oh the birds taught me! Then my heart burst open... and madness set upon me. The moon, the flower, the star...shone brightly. And I saw Him! We were One! What was that fear, that kept me from hearing? That kept me from feeling His patient gaze? From feeling the tenderness of touch? Such is the way of Love. He called in whispers! Almost silent...except for song! The bird song opened me! This poem is about all of us. Birds speak to me, watch me, and sing to me often. Years ago a best friend had a canary in a cage. His kids used to freak it out. He asked me what to do about the bird? Everytime anyone would go near its indoor cage it would fly about madly in fear. I showed him what to do! I opened the cage and put my hand in, and gently stroked the canaries breast feathers. The bird showed no fear! My friend was aghast and shocked. 'How did you do that Neil?' I said, ‘Don’t you know? I am mad! And I don’t really know.’ That was twelve years ago. Most of my friends have moved on. God I miss them. I wonder if they know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaea Posted April 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Azwibagan Gaea!!! nagabiwzA to you dear Gaea;) Shalom! (my knowledge is poor, I'm soon going to run out of these - haha) Love is a great subject matter, and I think it goes well with bhakti. For the last three days I have been thinking of posting the same topic 'what is love'. So thx! I think love is 'ever-new'. With a depth that has no limits. And being a human is way cool to discover what it is! The more we awaken to love to Krsna I think we awaken to love everything that is Krsna. And Krsna is everything. It is late at night here, and I cant quite express what I feel about love. But I know one thing in my heart, discovering love is a journey for eternity...and that is quite a blissful thought. So bliss and all things like that are in relation to love. There are some things about love I dont think we even talk about....and if we do say some things we are in good company. That's a good description... did you get the feeling that the more you write the more insufficient the description will be? It's weird... I have a strange sense of knowing what love is, or what it's supposed to be, but no amount of words in my vocab can ever describe it.. or even it's reason.... (if there is one) How do I love??? If you know how that desire can be fulfilled let me know. I think it will take an entire lifetime for me or more - if there is still an internet around at the end of my life, I may well reply to this message if i'm lucky enough I must be off to think about Krsna and His beautiful form. Cheerio! Say hi from me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaea Posted April 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Thanks for Mad Love, bija! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Hoola Hoola! (must be lack of sleep setting in) That's a good description... did you get the feeling that the more you write the more insufficient the description will be? by gaea Yeah I went to see this saint last week called Amma. The hugging saint. Oh man...she's knows what love is. She hugged me and kissed me on the forehead....calling in my ear 'my child my child my child'. Next morning I got up for mangala arati (I was in the city on short stay)...and gee wiz...what ever that saint did to me I dont know...I have never had jaap like that at mangala arati before. And walls about philosophy and advaita and vaisnavism have all been blown to bits. I have never encountered love so deep before. And a strong desire and vision for Krsna consciousness since meeting Amma. Love is everything...I hope I can somehow become a selfless man now and learn to love. y.s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaea Posted April 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Hoola Hoola! (must be lack of sleep setting in) That's a good description... did you get the feeling that the more you write the more insufficient the description will be? by gaea Yeah I went to see this saint last week called Amma. The hugging saint. Oh man...she's knows what love is. She hugged me and kissed me on the forehead....calling in my ear 'my child my child my child'. Next morning I got up for mangala arati (I was in the city on short stay)...and gee wiz...what ever that saint did to me I dont know...I have never had jaap like that at mangala arati before. And walls about philosophy and advaita and vaisnavism have all been blown to bits. I have never encountered love so deep before. And a strong desire and vision for Krsna consciousness since meeting Amma. Love is everything...I hope I can somehow become a selfless man now and learn to love. y.s. Lots of people have told me about Amma's Love - sounds amazing... your experience of having that contagious Love spread to you and your spiritual awareness is EXACTLY the goal (in my non-educated opinion) that ALL, or at least MOST, religions strive for. That is spirituality... That obliteration of all modes of philosophy that you speak of is really a great experience. I can only hope I get to that stage. Thanks!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 I can only hope I get to that stage. gaea oh gaea...you will....you are non-different than love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaea Posted April 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 I can only hope I get to that stage. gaea oh gaea...you will....you are non-different than love. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cbrahma Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 We know love by its effects certainly. In the bhakti tradition it has so many degrees and flavors , the highest of which is prema. Of course it is a Person. It is the very essence of God Himself. The scriptures define that potency as Srimati Radharani. Lord Caitanya is said to be the incarnation of both Krsna and Radharani, because the Lord wanted to feel prema was like from Radharani's viewpoint. By his complete dedication and surrender to Krsna he has taught the meaning of love. Srila Rupa Goswami, describing prema, writes in the Bhakti-rasamrita-sindhu, "That bhava-bhakti which from the start soexcessively affects the heart that it melts into a sublime salve of love, which brings within easy reach the highestsentiments of divine bliss, which generates an intense desire forKrsna, is known by the perfected devotees as prema." From thisstatement it is obvious that an extreme attraction, affection andspontaneous dedication to Lord Krsna is synonymous with prema. The relationship between the visaya (the object of worship,or Krsna) and the asraya (the devotee) is exchanged through thefive principal rasas of neutrality, servitorship, friendship,parenthood and conjugal love. Sometimes the main rasas in therelationship subside, allowing the seven secondary rasas oflaughter, wonderment, pity, bravado, anger, fear and horror to be relished] In the Bible Paul describes love in Corinthians 13 <DD><SUP>1</SUP> If I speak in human and angelic tongues <SUP>2</SUP> but do not have love, I am a resounding gong or a clashing cymbal. <DT>2 <DD>And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge; if I have all faith so as to move mountains but do not have love, I am nothing. <DT>3 <DD>If I give away everything I own, and if I hand my body over so that I may boast but do not have love, I gain nothing. <DT>4 <DD><SUP>3</SUP> Love is patient, love is kind. It is not jealous, (love) is not pompous, it is not inflated, <DT>5 <DD>it is not rude, it does not seek its own interests, it is not quick-tempered, it does not brood over injury, <DT>6 <DD>it does not rejoice over wrongdoing but rejoices with the truth. <DT>7 <DD>It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. <DT>8 <DD><SUP>4</SUP> Love never fails. If there are prophecies, they will be brought to nothing; if tongues, they will cease; if knowledge, it will be brought to nothing. <DT>9 <DD>For we know partially and we prophesy partially, <DT>10 <DD>but when the perfect comes, the partial will pass away. <DT>11 <DD>When I was a child, I used to talk as a child, think as a child, reason as a child; when I became a man, I put aside childish things. <DT>12 <DD>At present we see indistinctly, as in a mirror, but then face to face. At present I know partially; then I shall know fully, as I am fully known. <DT>13 <DD><SUP>5</SUP> So faith, hope, love remain, these three; but the greatest of these is love. </DD> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaea Posted April 13, 2008 Author Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Thank cbrahma - only scripture seems to be able to communicate love in such light... ... so the next question is - how do we develop such Prema? (haha, i guess that's the ULTIMATE question, yet seems like such a simple one, doesn't it?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xexon Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Love is the ability to see yourself in other things. A worldly person has a small orbit. They love what is close to them or of them. Wife, husband, children, friends, pets, career, food, etc. This is what you practice love on. Their hearts are not fully opened yet. They can love only with discrimination based upon reason. The mind controls who it goes to and in what amount. This is not true love. A divinely realized person has an orbit which encompasses all of creation. They are not at the mercy of the mind and it's limitations so the heart has no restrictions. All is loved equally. Even the vile and profane. A realized person sees no difference between themselves and the divine. Love of self is now seen as love of all things, because you have become all things. Only then will you know what love is. x Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted April 13, 2008 Report Share Posted April 13, 2008 Love is the ability to see yourself in other things. by xexon Yes:) You are right mate, that is real love what you have expressed. Deep reciprocation in God consciousness. Bhagavad Gita As It Is by Srila Prabhupada Chapter Nine text 17 and 19 TRANSLATION I am the father of this universe, the mother, the support and the grandsire. I am the object of knowledge, the purifier and the syllable om. I am also the RG, the Sama and the Yajur Vedas. PURPORT The entire cosmic manifestations, moving and nonmoving, are manifested by different activities of Krsnas energy. In the material existence we create different relationships with different living entities who are nothing but Krsna's marginal energy; under the creation of prakrti some of them appear as our father, mother, grandfather, creator, etc., but actually they are parts and parcels of Krsna. As such, these living entities who appear to be our father, mother, etc., are nothing but Krsna. In this verse the word dhata means "creator." Not only are our father and mother parts and parcels of Krsna, but the creator, grandmother and grandfather, etc., are also Krsna. Actually any living entity, being part and parcel of Krsna, is Krsna. All the Vedas, therefore, aim only toward Krsna. Whatever we want to know through the Vedas is but a progressive step toward understanding Krsna. That subject matter which helps us purify our constitutional position is especially Krsna. Similarly, the living entity who is inquisitive to understand all Vedic principles is also part and parcel of Krsna and as such is also Krsna. In all the Vedic mantras the word oḿ, called pranava, is a transcendental sound vibration and is also Krsna. And because in all the hymns of the four Vedas — Sama, Yajur, Rg and Atharva — the pranava, or omkara, is very prominent, it is understood to be Krsna. TRANSLATION O Arjuna, I give heat, and I withhold and send forth the rain. I am immortality, and I am also death personified. Both spirit and matter are in Me. PURPORT Krsna, by His different energies, diffuses heat and light through the agency of electricity and the sun. During summer season it is Krsna who checks rain from falling from the sky, and then during the rainy season He gives unceasing torrents of rain. The energy which sustains us by prolonging the duration of our life is Krsna, and Krsna meets us at the end as death. By analyzing all these different energies of Krsna, one can ascertain that for Krsna there is no distinction between matter and spirit, or, in other words, He is both matter and spirit. In the advanced stage of Krsna consciousness, one therefore makes no such distinctions. He sees only Krsna in everything. Since Krsna is both matter and spirit, the gigantic universal form comprising all material manifestations is also Krsna, and His pastimes in Vrindavan as two-handed Symasundara, playing on a flute, are those of the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 ... so the next question is - how do we develop such Prema? (haha, i guess that's the ULTIMATE question, yet seems like such a simple one, doesn't it?) by gaea By showing respect to all Gaea, and never offending them. Always considering oneself servant of others. Simplicity, freedom from guile and self deceit. The Holy Name.The grace and mercy of God. "Birth after birth we seek love, by unconditional mercy the most fallen find home is the heart" "The heart is a land where every movement is dance, where every voice is song, where there are green pastures and wish-fulfilling cows, and that land I choose in total freedom" "Freedom of choice is the very foundation of love" "Vraj is the land of cows, Vraj means to go...." "If I choose to live in Vraj, all is perfect and complete" "The key to the inner chamber of my lover is the Holy Name" "The inner chamber of the heart is truth, satisfying, cooling, and saturated with the bliss of love" "Always choose love and chant the Holy Name, showing no disrespect to others, then Sri Gauranga will show himself in all beatitude" by bija <embed src="http://blip.tv/scripts/flash/showplayer.swf?enablejs=true&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvishjashan%2Eblip%2Etv%2Frss&file=http%3A%2F%2Fblip%2Etv%2Frss%2Fflash%2F747535&showplayerpath=http%3A%2F%2Fblip%2Etv%2Fscripts%2Fflash%2Fshowplayer%2Eswf" quality="best" name="showplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" height="255" width="400"> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted April 14, 2008 Report Share Posted April 14, 2008 Even the vile and profane. by xexon It must take some depth of vision for this Prabhu? One key I have found in this direction is to realize we are a microcosm of the fullness. So anything that is within us, is in all....so as we accept that depth within our very-selves...we love that same depth in all. Even to the extent of God. These days I see the fullness of God in such light. I heard him within oneday say 'If I was all these things would you still love me?' It was a sensitive voice, almost human, 'oh yes', I replied 'I would' At some point xexon we sure can love the vile and profane, and be healed! Please forgive me for foolishness in being so open in a public forum. Love will make us do crazy things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 <embed src="http://blip.tv/scripts/flash/showplayer.swf?enablejs=true&feedurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvishjashan%2Eblip%2Etv%2Frss&file=http%3A%2F%2Fblip%2Etv%2Frss%2Fflash%2F834067&showplayerpath=http%3A%2F%2Fblip%2Etv%2Fscripts%2Fflash%2Fshowplayer%2Eswf" quality="best" name="showplayer" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" height="255" width="400"> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandrajenkins Posted April 15, 2008 Report Share Posted April 15, 2008 Love comes in different forms, so it's not easy to say what it's. even in vaishnavism religion, I think thyey say one must approach Krishna in different ways. So it proves that love has multiple forms, and hence a definition would be out of question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rohini108 Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 Thank cbrahma - only scripture seems to be able to communicate love in such light... ... so the next question is - how do we develop such Prema? (haha, i guess that's the ULTIMATE question, yet seems like such a simple one, doesn't it?) From my very superficial understanding and reading, you don't develop "such Prema," in the sense of some material endeavor. Rather it is a blessing - a gift. "....This supreme gift perfectly matches the supreme goal spoken about in the Holy Scriptures—attaining love of God. In other words, when you’ve got love of Godhead, you’ve got all there is to get. It is exactly this criterion of love that is compressed within the Holy Name. Remember, attaining love of God is the ultimate result of devotional service—the "development of genuine love for the Supreme Lord." (Shrimad-Bhagavatam 1.7.7) And as far as the quality of that love—produced by the Holy Name—"it is the unique and highest development of love of God!" This is "the ultimate benediction for all human beings—situating (them) within the Lord’s intimate circle of devotees." (Chaitanya-charitamrita, Adi-lila 7.1, 7.17,& Introduction) Shrila Prabhupada writes that, "Krishna and His devotees become perfectly intimate" within this yardstick of love, "enjoying transcendental bliss perfectly." "Lord Krishna is indeed captivated by this standard of love." The saints remind us that it is exactly this kind of love that Lord Chaitanya so highly praises. As we pray, this coveted treasure awakens within our heart. "It imbues the chanter with a spirit of devotion for the Lord, and makes one more and more greedy to achieve the shelter of the lotus-feet of Lord Krishna." (Chaitanya-charitamrita, Introduction: Adi-lila, & Madhya-lila 8.8) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AncientMariner Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 In the material world anyway isn't love basically maya? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 In the material world anyway isn't love basically maya? ancient Yes it can be only maya. Or this world can be the cultivation ground for the deepest of spritual love. As we become purified the intimacy between Krsna and his devotees develops. So purity enables us to see deeper aspects of love. Try and see everyone as a devotee....as parts of Krsna. ps. I am not talking about basic morality when using the word purity. Shrila Prabhupada writes that, "Krishna and His devotees become perfectly intimate" within this yardstick of love, "enjoying transcendental bliss perfectly." quote by rohini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theist Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 To cure Krishna's headache the gopis were willing to give Him the healing balm in the form of the dust of their feet even though this was seen by them as a sure ticket to hell. They did not hesitate taking time to weigh the calculations concerning their future suffering. Krsna welfare was the only consideration. How to develop this? First is to accept this selfless example as the ultimate expression of love and goal of one's life and then to engage in sadhana bhakti (specifically chanting the Holy Names) as one is able and go through all the internal transformations necessary until that goal is realized. There are no shortcuts that the mind can manufacture. Visualize the goal and with patient determination chant Hare Krsna. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bija Posted April 16, 2008 Report Share Posted April 16, 2008 ....then to engage in sadhana bhakti (specifically chanting the Holy Names) as one is able and go through all the internal transformations necessary until that goal is realized. There are no shortcuts that the mind can manufacture. theist I like that advice theist, a sure way for us to gradually awaken to love free of maya. SIKSASTAKA VERSE ONE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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