Universality and transcendance

[cbrahma]

 

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No two religions are compatible with one another. Try being a Shaiva and a Vaishnava at the same time or a christian and muslim at the same time. The same logic applies here.

Many people have explained how the two are incompatbile in previous posts and yet you are just repeating the same question again and again. Do this a few more times and you will be on everyones ignore list for making senseless posts.

Any drivel on this thread appears only in your posts. You are perfectly fine with saying Vaishnavism is compatible with Christianity because Prabhhupada said so. But anyone who rejects that claim for lack of evidence you is required to provide shastric evidence? Which planet are you from?

Quoting Prabhupada is the same as Prabhupada said so. Prabhupada saying something does not equate to shastric evidence. Get off your high horse and talk some sense if you want a meaningful discussion.

I need to expand that I was asking for guru-sadhu-sastra. Not just sastra.

The nature of Vaisnavism is non-sectarian, yet it is rare to find bhaktas or professed bhaktas who have not identified with the rites and rituals ,that is the religious practices as being the sum and substance of Vaisnavism.

That is definitely NOT sastric.

Comparing a religion with a spiritual path is like comparing growing turnips with botany. They are a completely separate category of things.

Truth be known, Vaisnavism is sanatana dharma, and sanatana dharma

includes all levels of realization.

 

 

 

TEXT 11

ye yatha mam prapadyante

tams tathaiva bhajamy aham

mama vartmanuvartante

manusyah partha sarvasah

SYNONYMS

 

ye--all of them; yatha--as; mam--unto Me; prapadyante--surrender; tan--unto them; tatha--so; eva--certainly; bhajami--do I reward; aham--I; mama--My; vartma--path; anuvartante--do follow; manusyah--all men; partha--O son of Prtha; sarvasah--in all respects.

 

 

TRANSLATION

 

All of them--as they surrender unto Me--I reward accordingly. Everyone follows My path in all respects, O son of Prtha.

 

 

PURPORT

 

Everyone is searching for Krsna in the different aspects of His manifestations. Krsna, the Supreme Personality of Godhead, is partially realized in His impersonal brahmajyoti effulgence and as the all-pervading Supersoul dwelling within everything, including the particles of atoms. But Krsna is only fully realized by His pure devotees. Consequently, Krsna is the object of everyone's realization, and thus anyone and everyone is satisfied according to one's desire to have Him. In the transcendental world also, Krsna reciprocates with His pure devotees in the transcendental attitude, just as the devotee wants Him. One devotee may want Krsna as supreme master, another as his personal friend, another as his son, and still another as his lover. Krsna rewards all the devotees equally, according to their different intensities of love for Him. In the material world, the same reciprocations of feelings are there, and they are equally exchanged by the Lord with the different types of worshipers. The pure devotees both here and in the transcendental abode associate with Him in person and are able to render personal service to the Lord and thus derive transcendental bliss in His loving service. As for those who are impersonalists and who want to commit spiritual suicide by annihilating the individual existence of the living entity, Krsna helps also by absorbing them into His effulgence. Such impersonalists do not agree to accept the eternal, blissful Personality of Godhead; consequently they cannot relish the bliss of transcendental personal service to the Lord, having extinguished their individuality. Some of them, who are not situated even in the impersonal existence, return to this material field to exhibit their dormant desires for activities. They are not admitted into the spiritual planets, but they are again given a chance to act on the material planets. For those who are fruitive workers, the Lord awards the desired results of their prescribed duties, as the yajnesvara; and those who are yogis seeking mystic powers are awarded such powers. In other words, everyone is dependent for success upon His mercy alone, and all kinds of spiritual processes are but different degrees of success on the same path. Unless, therefore, one comes to the highest perfection of Krsna consciousness, all attempts remain imperfect, as is stated in the Srimad-Bhagavatam:

 

 

akamah sarva-kamo va moksa-kama udara-dhih

tivrena bhakti-yogena yajeta purusam param

 

"Whether one is without desire [the condition of the devotees], or is desirous of all fruitive results, or is after liberation, one should with all efforts try to worship the Supreme Personality of Godhead for complete perfection, culminating in Krsna consciousness." (Bhag. 2.3.10)

 

 

[theist]

 

As usual CBrahma and co will conveniently ignore this post. Talk about honesty...

 

Cheers

 

This has come up many times in the past. I don't need to respond to it everytime I see it. I DO NOT accept this quote. I don't dance around controversial statements or topics.

 

It is not consistent with Bhaktisiddanta's definition giving in Vaisnavism real and apparent which is definitive to me.

 

Perhaps Sanatan Gosvami was speaking of Vaisnavism in some religious term but it certainly is not an eternal definition.

 

For those who are not atheists like shvu ask yourselves this question. Are the residents of the Spiritual Sky undergoing formal initiaton rites and ceremonially receivng Vishnu mantras? Or, were the gopis properly initiated and chanting some Vishnu mantra?

 

I don't accept the relevance of what I have heard from the hari bhakti-vilasa as relevant outside of the Indian religious system. Never read the whole thing so that is why I said "of what I have heard".

 

So either one sees the question in terms of gradations of meaning like Vaisnava is also used to refer to mixed devotees but when it comes down to it no one who think that the term vaisnava that they apply to themselves is on par with the Vaisnava that is applied to a Krsna realized devotee.

 

Therefore the word is used variously according to context. I choose to focus on the absolute definition which is the context that fits this present conversation.

[Kulapavana]

http://www.srimatham.com/srimatham/cosmicgame/cosmicgame.pdf

 

This is a very good comparison study of Vaishnavism and other major religions, by an acharya of the Sri Sampradaya line.

[cbrahma]

 

http://www.srimatham.com/srimatham/cosmicgame/cosmicgame.pdf

 

This is a very good comparison study of Vaishnavism and other major religions, by an acharya of the Sri Sampradaya line.

The difficulty with this ISKCON promoted text is that it categorizes Vaisnavism as Hinduism and compares it laterally with Christianity 'qua' religion. The understanding of Vaisnavism that I have read by the prior acaryas is that Vaisnavism is a larger vision than any one practice that can be called a 'religion'. It certainly is not synonomous with Hinduism or any specific 'religious' set of pious practices.

[theist]

 

http://www.srimatham.com/srimatham/cosmicgame/cosmicgame.pdf

 

This is a very good comparison study of Vaishnavism and other major religions, by an acharya of the Sri Sampradaya line.

 

Do you really mean to call Vaisnavism a religion?

[Kulapavana]

 

The difficulty with this ISKCON promoted text is that it categorizes Vaisnavism as Hinduism and compares it laterally with Christianity 'qua' religion. The understanding of Vaisnavism that I have read by the prior acaryas is that Vaisnavism is a larger vision than any one practice that can be called a 'religion'. It certainly is not synonomous with Hinduism or any specific 'religious' set of pious practices.

 

Every new religious movement wants to distinguish itself by making all kinds of grandioso claims. Iskcon is certainly no exception. However, in practice we see what things really look like. In real life ISKCON would not, and will not, reconcile even with their closest "cousins" (Gaudiya Matha) yet it claims it is a movement above any religion? This is a bombastic and absurd notion only a totally brainwashed person can entertain...

[cbrahma]

 

Every new religious movement wants to distinguish itself by making all kinds of grandioso claims. Iskcon is certainly no exception. However, in practice we see what things really look like. In real life ISKCON would not, and will not, reconcile even with their closest "cousins" (Gaudiya Matha) yet it claims it is a movement above any religion? This is a bombastic and absurd notion only a totally brainwashed person can entertain...

I agree and disagree. Yes ISKCON has turned a universal spiritual movement into a Hindu sectarian religious institution. That does not speak to the compatibility between the major theistic religions of the world and Vaisnavism. This a serious philosophical point that was adequately addressed by Bhatkivinode Thakur and his disciples but some professed Vaisnavas don't want to admit it.

[cbrahma]

 

<CENTER>Chapter 5. Karma-yoga--Action in Krsna Consciousness</CENTER>

 

TEXT 18

 

vidya-vinaya-sampanne

brahmane gavi hastini

suni caiva sva-pake ca

panditah sama-darsinah

SYNONYMS

 

 

vidya--education; vinaya--gentleness; sampanne--fully equipped; brahmane--in the brahmana; gavi--in the cow; hastini--in the elephant; suni--in the dog; ca--and; eva--certainly; sva-pake--in the dog-eater (the outcaste); ca--respectively; panditah--those who are so wise; sama-darsinah--do see with equal vision.

 

TRANSLATION

 

 

 

The humble sage, by virtue of true knowledge, sees with equal vision a learned and gentle brahmana, a cow, an elephant, a dog and a dog-eater [outcaste].

 

PURPORT

 

 

A Krsna conscious person does not make any distinction between species or castes. The brahmana and the outcaste may be different from the social point of view, or a dog, a cow, or an elephant may be different from the point of view of species, but these differences of body are meaningless from the viewpoint of a learned transcendentalist. This is due to their relationship to the Supreme, for the Supreme Lord, by His plenary portion as Paramatma, is present in everyone's heart. Such an understanding of the Supreme is real knowledge. As far as the bodies are concerned in different castes or different species of life, the Lord is equally kind to everyone because He treats every living being as a friend yet maintains Himself as Paramatma regardless of the circumstances of the living entities. The Lord as Paramatma is present both in the outcaste and in the brahmana, although the body of a brahmana and that of an outcaste are not the same. The bodies are material productions of different modes of material nature, but the soul and the Supersoul within the body are of the same spiritual quality. The similarity in the quality of the soul and the Supersoul, however, does not make them equal in quantity, for the individual soul is present only in that particular body whereas the Paramatma is present in each and every body. A Krsna conscious person has full knowledge of this, and therefore he is truly learned and has equal vision. The similar characteristics of the soul and Supersoul are that they are both conscious, eternal and blissful. But the difference is that the individual soul is conscious within the limited jurisdiction of the body, whereas the Supersoul is conscious of all bodies. The Supersoul is present in all bodies without distinction.

[matarisvan]

 

I agree and disagree. Yes ISKCON has turned a universal spiritual movement into a Hindu sectarian religious institution.

 

I disagree. Iskcon is following the system what was laid down its founder. Prabhupada laid down the philosophy of iskcon as a viashnava system following age old vaishnava customs of India and disagreement with other forms of religion. How then is it a "universal spiritual movement"?

Gaudiya Vaishnavism was started by Chaitanya just a few hundred years back, but Vaishnavism has been existing long before his time. It was never at any time seen as a universal spritual movement as you put it. Vaiahnavas have always been distinct from Shaivas, Shaktas, Jainas and every other system of religion or spirituality if you want call it that.

 

 

That does not speak to the compatibility between the major theistic religions of the world and Vaisnavism. This a serious philosophical point that was adequately addressed by Bhatkivinode Thakur and his disciples but some professed Vaisnavas don't want to admit it.

 

Bhakti vinoda or Prabhupada cannot modify the meaning of the name Vaishnava which has been existing for thousands of years. Neither can you are or your other friends on this forum. How hard is that for you to understand?

 

[Kulapavana]

 

I agree and disagree. Yes ISKCON has turned a universal spiritual movement into a Hindu sectarian religious institution. That does not speak to the compatibility between the major theistic religions of the world and Vaisnavism. This a serious philosophical point that was adequately addressed by Bhatkivinode Thakur and his disciples but some professed Vaisnavas don't want to admit it.

 

Just because Bhaktivinoda, Bhaktisiddhanta, or Prabhupada made a theoretical point by placing sanatana dharma above all religions does not mean that the institutions they have built actually embodied such lofty principles. Bahai's also made similar claims for example. Yet in each and every case the reality on the ground is somewhat different than the lofty claims the founders of these groups made. Once an abstract idea takes an actual form, it is no longer abstract.

 

Thus I consider the claims of Iskcon devotees as to being above all religions a mere propaganda tactic. We are part of the Hindiusm religious current no matter how loudly we deny it. And the more we deny it, the more absurd we appear to be in the eyes of the public.

[cbrahma]

 

Just because Bhaktivinoda, Bhaktisiddhanta, or Prabhupada made a theoretical point by placing sanatana dharma above all religions does not mean that the institutions they have built actually embodied such lofty principles. Bahai's also made similar claims for example. Yet in each and every case the reality on the ground is somewhat different than the lofty claims the founders of these groups made. Once an abstract idea takes an actual form, it is no longer abstract.

 

Thus I consider the claims of Iskcon devotees as to being above all religions a mere propaganda tactic. We are part of the Hindiusm religious current no matter how loudly we deny it. And the more we deny it, the more absurd we appear to be in the eyes of the public.

And you're perfectly ok with that I see.

[cbrahma]

 

 

I disagree. Iskcon is following the system what was laid down its founder. Prabhupada laid down the philosophy of iskcon as a viashnava system following age old vaishnava customs of India and disagreement with other forms of religion. How then is it a "universal spiritual movement"?

Gaudiya Vaishnavism was started by Chaitanya just a few hundred years back, but Vaishnavism has been existing long before his time. It was never at any time seen as a universal spritual movement as you put it. Vaiahnavas have always been distinct from Shaivas, Shaktas, Jainas and every other system of religion or spirituality if you want call it that.

 

 

Bhakti vinoda or Prabhupada cannot modify the meaning of the name Vaishnava which has been existing for thousands of years. Neither can you are or your other friends on this forum. How hard is that for you to understand?

 

I was in ISKCON when Prabhupada was still in his body. I know exactly what he was preaching and what kind of spiritual movement he intended to spread. His was a mission in line with Caitanya Mahaprabhu to spread the sankirtana Yuga dharma to 'every town and village' and for Prabhupada that meant the mlechha West. Go figure.

[raghu]

 

More ignorance. Some people who advertise themselves as very learned in Veda apparently think Veda is a set of books that have an origin in a certain place at a certain time in human history.

 

Excuse me???? *You* were the one who previously opined that the Vedas were sectarian holy books of Hindus. *You* were the one who scoffed at the idea of limiting one's understanding of God to the Vedas as sectarian.

 

*I* have always held to the Vaishnava point of view that Vedas are apaurusheya and beginningless. If memory serves, this was explained to you, but in your infinite wisdom but you had no use for such concepts even though they are held by all Vaishnava acharyas including members of your own sampradaya.

 

Would you like me to pull out the URL's?

[raghu]

 

The difficulty with this ISKCON promoted text is that it categorizes Vaisnavism as Hinduism and compares it laterally with Christianity 'qua' religion. The understanding of Vaisnavism that I have read by the prior acaryas is that Vaisnavism is a larger vision than any one practice that can be called a 'religion'. It certainly is not synonomous with Hinduism or any specific 'religious' set of pious practices.

 

Right. Nevermind all the good points it made. Nevermind the fact that the author is a practicing Vaishnava. Nevermind the fact that he can put two and two together and derive a logical conclusion, in contrast to the iskcon-prabhupada groupies.

 

The whole article must be dismissed because its author used the dirty H word.

[raghu]

 

Thus I consider the claims of Iskcon devotees as to being above all religions a mere propaganda tactic. We are part of the Hindiusm religious current no matter how loudly we deny it. And the more we deny it, the more absurd we appear to be in the eyes of the public.

 

I think you are being unfair to iskcon.

 

When iskcon devotees are preaching, it is only then that iskcon/krishna-conciousness/hare-krishna is transcendental to Hinduism.

 

It's only when iskcon devotees want money or are fighting persecution that suddently iskcon is a part of the grand Hindu tradition.

 

Nothing wrong with that, right?

[theist]

 

Just because Bhaktivinoda, Bhaktisiddhanta, or Prabhupada made a theoretical point by placing sanatana dharma above all religions does not mean that the institutions they have built actually embodied such lofty principles. Bahai's also made similar claims for example. Yet in each and every case the reality on the ground is somewhat different than the lofty claims the founders of these groups made. Once an abstract idea takes an actual form, it is no longer abstract.

 

Thus I consider the claims of Iskcon devotees as to being above all religions a mere propaganda tactic. We are part of the Hindiusm religious current no matter how loudly we deny it. And the more we deny it, the more absurd we appear to be in the eyes of the public.

 

I must take strong exception to calling sanatan dharma (the eternal religion of the soul) a theoretical point.

 

On the point of the instituion not being on the level of the idea I can agree. Joining a movement or religious organization is not the same as attaining the goal.

[theist]

 

Excuse me???? *You* were the one who previously opined that the Vedas were sectarian holy books of Hindus. *You* were the one who scoffed at the idea of limiting one's understanding of God to the Vedas as sectarian.

 

*I* have always held to the Vaishnava point of view that Vedas are apaurusheya and beginningless. If memory serves, this was explained to you, but in your infinite wisdom but you had no use for such concepts even though they are held by all Vaishnava acharyas including members of your own sampradaya.

 

Would you like me to pull out the URL's?

 

I have understood that Veda is an eteral sound vibration long long before you showed up here Raghu. I also understand that there are teachings in the books called vedas that are particular to time place and circumstance and not universally applicable.

 

I also understand that that same Veda can and does manifest in any planet or country at anytime by the sweet will of the absolute and is still veda. 1 plus 2 = 3 and 2 plus 1 = 3. Get it. It's pretty simple really. A rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.

 

Try to see things beyond the bodily desoignation at least theoretically and you might catch a glimpse of what we are trying to say to you. You are not an Indian. You are not a Hindu.You are minute spiritsoul and your eternal religion is love and service to God or sanatan dharma. When egaged in that eternal religion of loving and serving God you can be called an awakened Vaisnava or servant of the Supreme Lord.

 

Do you not understand that the Supreme Lorsd can be communicated with in more than Bengali Sanskrit or Hindi? Do you not comprehend that simple thing.

[raghu]

 

I have understood that Veda is an eteral sound vibration long long before you showed up here Raghu.

that's not what you said before:

 

In http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/spiritual-discussions/36602-jesus-only-way-2.html (posting #33) in response to a poster who claimed that the Vedas predict Jesus, another poster made the point that Vedas do NOT predict Jesus. In response to this latter point, you (Theist) sarcastically wrote, in a posting entitled "blinders on" that:

 

 

"its not in my book there it cannot be"

So back then, Vedas were a "book" to you. And one who relied on them to extrapolate reality was guilty of sectarian feelings in your eyes. Certainly the whole "eternal sound vibration" theory didn't seem to occur to you then. Well, why should it, since the poster made a logical point, and you knew you just had to disagree, because it was against Jesus... so you dredged up the whole "sectarian Hindu books" theory for lack of anything more intelligent to say.

[cbrahma]

 

RADICAL KRISHNA CONSCIOUSNESS by His Divine Grace Sri Srimad Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Goswami Maharaja Prabhupada

...The idea of an organized church, in an intelligible form, indeed marks the close of the living spiritual movement. The great ecclesiastical establishments are the dikes and the dams supposed to retain the current that cannot be held by any such contrivances. They, indeed, indicate a desire on the part of the masses to exploit a spiritual movement for their own purpose. They also unmistakably indicate the end of the absolute and unconventional guidance of the bona fide spiritual teacher. The people of this world understand preventative systems; they have no idea at all of the unprevented positive eternal life. Neither can there be any earthy contrivance for the permanent preservation of the life eternal on this mundane plane on the popular scale.

Those are, therefore, greatly mistaken who are disposed to look forward to the amelioration of the worldly state--in any worldly sense—due to the worldly success of any really spiritual movement. It is these worldly expectants who become the patrons of the mischievous race of the pseudo-teachers of religion, the Putanas, whose congenial function is to stifle the theistic disposition at the very moment of its suspected appearance. But the real</U> theistic disposition can never be stifled by the efforts of those Putanas. The Putanas have power only over the atheist. It is a thankless, but salutary, task which they perform for the benefit of their unwilling victims...

 

[theist]

 

that's not what you said before:

 

In http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/spiritual-discussions/36602-jesus-only-way-2.html (posting #33) in response to a poster who claimed that the Vedas predict Jesus, another poster made the point that Vedas do NOT predict Jesus. In response to this latter point, you (Theist) sarcastically wrote, in a posting entitled "blinders on" that:

 

 

 

So back then, Vedas were a "book" to you. And one who relied on them to extrapolate reality was guilty of sectarian feelings in your eyes. Certainly the whole "eternal sound vibration" theory didn't seem to occur to you then. Well, why should it, since the poster made a logical point, and you knew you just had to disagree, because it was against Jesus... so you dredged up the whole "sectarian Hindu books" theory for lack of anything more intelligent to say.

Raghu you and I should not have any further conversations. You misrepsentsent everything I say and don't answer any questions so bye bye.

[raghu]

 

Raghu you and I should not have any further conversations. You misrepsentsent everything I say and don't answer any questions so bye bye.

 

No, I just quoted you word for word.

 

Those highlights again -

 

 

enlightening Theist quote #1:

Some people who advertise themselves as very learned in Veda apparently think Veda is a set of books that have an origin in a certain place at a certain time in human history.

 

 

enlightening Theist quote #2, in regards to the Vedas not predicting Jesus:

"its not in my book there it cannot be"

 

But anyway, goodbye to you, and don't let the door hit you on the way out...

[shvu]

 

I must take strong exception to calling sanatan dharma (the eternal religion of the soul) a theoretical point.

 

As I have said several times before, Sanatana Dharma is a term coined by Indian patriots less than 200 years ago as they were resentful of the term Hindu for its foreign origin. It was an outcome of the mood of the time, much similar to how Bombay became Mumbai recently.

 

I fail to see how this now becomes the eternal religion of the soul. A christian will make the same argument for his religion and a moslem will do the same.

 

Cheers

[shvu]

 

I was in ISKCON when Prabhupada was still in his body. I know exactly what he was preaching and what kind of spiritual movement he intended to spread. His was a mission in line with Caitanya Mahaprabhu to spread the sankirtana Yuga dharma to 'every town and village' and for Prabhupada that meant the mlechha West. Go figure.

 

I know he wore saffron, the nama, practised ekadashi, etc, etc., which - surprise, surprise - is exactly the set of traditions peculiar to Vaishnava sects in India.

 

What make it is a universal solution to the world's problems? I do not see Hare Krishnas from Prabhupada's time necessarily being happier than other humans. In fact, it is the other way around for a number of them - their misery and repressions a testimony of the failure of the path they chose. So much for an universal solution.

 

Cheers

[bija]

I do not see Hare Krishnas from Prabhupada's time necessarily being happier than other humans. post by shvu

 

Why do you think this is so shvu?

 

Why do some people become happy in this world and some dont, despite religious (spiritual practice)?

 

Is the biological mind make up just the way it is? And we make the best with what we have?

Then begin the work of rewiring our neural networks just like a computer?

 

Is that all there is?

 

I don't think so shvu. But ofcourse we need to do the work on the ol' programing, or else we isolate ourselves in many ways from the greater environment.

 

Even if it is just the mind shvu...we will be amazed at its depth and subtle existence. And oneday the mystery of that depth may lead us to god.

 

What is the universal experience? So many have their ways and words explaining that one.

 

Even if we say it is love, there are so many words and ways. Maybe we just got to accept the expanse of what is, and walk our path well. Then actualize!

 

If I can fully actualize to my organic potential (if I dare call myself an organism) and be a happy whole person, that surely would be a nice service to humanity. And if others at least have a nice impression of Sri Krsna through my being, maybe that is good enough (the internal life between myself and Sri Krsna would be my own affair). There is enough misery in this world, it needs happy people. So the way I see it, any spiritual path that raises

a persons development to become conscious serves its purpose. Any path that divides and reduces a souls growth needs to be looked at with a keen eye. Ofcourse a fool may spoil something beautiful just by his proclamation of its truth!

 

An impression in the mind can work wonders on the old computer. And sometimes religious bent people can leave stinkers.

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

 

As I have said several times before, Sanatana Dharma is a term coined by Indian patriots less than 200 years ago as they were resentful of the term Hindu for its foreign origin. It was an outcome of the mood of the time, much similar to how Bombay became Mumbai recently.

 

I fail to see how this now becomes the eternal religion of the soul. A christian will make the same argument for his religion and a moslem will do the same.

 

 

Indeed, and this resurgence of Hindu nationalistic sentiments occurred at the height of the Raj. For this reason, I quit utilising the term Sanatana Dharma long back. I prefer to simply describe what I construe as authentic religious principles as "dharma", which at least finds explicit presence in the Sanskrit writings.

 

Of course, like Theist and cbrahma, I also acknowledge the positive value of systems other than Veda-based ones, even though I myself find Advaita and Buddhism to be more universalistic in outlook, and at the same time more rationalistic and logically sound in theoretical framework as well as application, than cults revolving around personal deities, with all of the unavoidable cultural associations. Hence, I would laud the attempts of those who recognise the indubitable validity (from a historical perspective) of the Semitic faiths as opposed to the India-only imbecilic arguments of others.

 

In the end, I can only sign off from this thread with the following quote of Albert Einstein's, which is particularly pertinent to the theme under discussion here:

 

"ALL RELIGIONS, ARTS, AND SCIENCES AR BRANCHES OF THE SAME TREE."