Jesus and Krishna

[RadheRade1657]

 

AATHREYA aarbeekay - Dr.BalaKrishna Murthy Ramaraju

27 Mackay Dr. , Marlborough , MA 01752 - 1935, USA

E.M.:- dr.balakrishnamurthy.ramaraju@gmail.com

Cell : 508 - 265 -1124 ; L L : 508 - 229 - 2028

AATHREYA - FOUR SACRED EVENTS OF VAISAAKHAM -

Kali Yug 5109 - 02 - 07 ; 2008 - 05 - 11 , Sunday ( Bhaanu Vaaram )

Chaandra Maana , Sarvadhaari Parivatsara , Vaisaakha Maasam ,

Suddha Sapthami aka BHAANU SAPTHAMI , Pushyami Nakshathram ;

PUSHYA - ARKA VRUDDHI YOGAM .

I. BHAANU SAPTHAMI ; II.PUSHYA - ARKA YOGAM ;

III. GANGOTPATTHI ; IV . MOTHER ' S DAY .

I.Sapthami is The Day of Sun. Sapthami occuring on a Sunday as on

May 11 , 2008 is Bhaanu Sapthami , doubly beneficial.

" AADITHYAM , KAASHYAPEYAM , MAHODYUTHIM , THAMORIM ,

SARVA PAAPAGHNAM , PRANATHOSMI DIVAAKARAM ,

DINAKARAM , BHAANUM."

II.On 11 th May 2008 , Sunday ,Moon is in Pushya Nakshathram , hence

Pushya - Arka Yogam , which according to Vedic Jyothish Pandits is

Very Auspicious for One and All . It is VRUDDHI YOGAM .

III. Vaisaakha Suddha Sapthami is The Day that Bhageeratha , a descendent

of Sagara Chakravarthi brought Pavithra Paavana Ganga Maa to Earth.

IV. MOTHER'S DAY : - Ammala Kanna Amma , Muguru Ammala Moolapu Amma =

Aadi Paraa Shakthi - Mother Of All Mothers , Original Mother of Three Mothers -

Paarvathi , Lakshmi and Saraswathi.

Three Mothers Savithru Mandalam - Gaayathri , Saraswathi and Saavithri.

Kaushalya , Sumithra , Kaikeyi - Mothers of Raama and His brothers.- Sabari

 

VakuLa Devi - Foster Mother of Baalaaji.

Saptha Maathrukas - Seven Mothers of SubrahmaNya.

Devaki and Yashoda - Mothers of Lord Krishna

Our Mothers : Birth Mother ; Grandmother , Mother-in-law , Guru Pathni

ANTHROPOLOGICAL MOTHER : " LUCY " and her Seven Daughters -

Modern Scientific Mothers Of Humanity.

OM SARVA MAATHRUBHYO NAMAHA OM

aathreya - ramaraju , bala krishna murthy of guntur ( gartha puri )

 

I really appreciate that you make postings describing Divine Personalities, but I often have trouble seeing how they work into these conversations.

[guliaditya]

 

"This is the position of sādhu. He is not disturbed. Titikṣavaḥ. In all circumstances, he is tolerant. That is sādhu. Sādhu does not become disturbed. Titikṣavaḥ. At the same time, kāruṇikāḥ. He is himself disturbed, but he is merciful to others. Just like Jesus Christ. He is being crucified, and still he is merciful:

“Father, these people do not know what they are doing. Please excuse them.” This is sādhu. He is personally being disturbed by the demons, but still, he is merciful to the general people. They are suffering for want of Krishna consciousness. So even up to the point of death, he is trying to preach Krishna consciousness. “Let the people be benefited. Eh, what is this material body? Even if I am killed, I am not killed. This body is killed, that’s all.” This is sādhu. Titikṣavaḥ kāruṇikāḥ. In one side he is tolerant, and other side, merciful.

 

What you wanted to prove from your reply???

Pls clarify.

 

Pranaam

[suchandra]

 

It speaks for itself, no further explanations required, why you always want to to drag things on the level of mundane discussion? Those who can't grasp the meaning, why bother?

[guliaditya]

 

 

Where I have drag the issue???

I never indulge in any debate.U can read all my posts.

After reading Bhagavatam, Gita, Ramayan, & divine charitra of Bhaktas, I have drawn the conclusion that Sreeman Narayan is the supreme personality & he alone should be worshipped.Any philosophy which deviates from it, I don't accept it.Hence there is no question of debate on my part.

But if anyone challenges it then it needs to be defended also.

Anyway thanks for your reply.

 

Pranaam

[Beggar]

 

 

... I have drawn the conclusion that Sreeman Narayan is the supreme personality & he alone should be worshipped...

Pranaam

Then why is your avatar picture, a picture of Sri Sri Radha Krsna? I never heard of Sri Narayana playing a flute?

 

CC Madhya 23.84-85: "'Above Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa has four specific transcendental qualities — His wonderful pastimes, an abundance of wonderful associates who are very dear to Him [like the gopīs], His wonderful beauty and the wonderful vibration of His flute. Lord Kṛṣṇa is more exalted than ordinary living beings and demigods like Lord Śiva. He is even more exalted than His personal expansion Nārāyaṇa. In all, the Supreme Personality of Godhead has sixty-four transcendental qualities in full.'

[Taipan]

 

I had a major realization last night.. I know it may not seem like much to others but I finaly see the truth in Jesus in relation to Krishna. For a long time I loathed Christianty because when I was a believer what the Christians taught me really screwed me up. Last night I was thinking about Buddha and Krishna and Kabbalah and their similarities.. and Galatians 5: 16-25 and how it's very similar to Bhagavad Gita chapter 16. and Kabbalahs view on Satan. (Not the accepted Christian View of a Evil being trying to rip people into Hell)

I saw how Todays Christians dont understand real Jesus's truth.. How the Bible isn't Infallible and I can point out major mistakes in it's teachings that are accepted today. And I realized Jesus is in union with Krishna. I'm so happy.. I dont have the rising doubt that being a Krishna Devotee is going to send me to Hell because of what Todays Christians preach. And that is a BIG thing..

 

I am pleased the truth is unfolding for you Tirisilex.

 

The truth wears many faces

I am pleased the truth is unfolding for you

[tackleberry]

 

Then why is your avatar picture, a picture of Sri Sri Radha Krsna? I never heard of Sri Narayana playing a flute?

 

 

Because Krishna and Sriman NArAyaNa are one?

[tackleberry]

 

What do you mean by 'that you can hardly deny'? We don't know who wrote it and when. It could've been written by anyone. We don't know if it was a direct disciple of Jesus or not.

Once again, I don't really care if he was Vaishnava or not. I like his teachings. They're interesting and teach good morals. I don't see any problem with me following his teachings and being a worshipper of Sri Sri Radha-Krishna.

 

If, by your own admission, there's so much confusion regarding Jesus and his 'teaching,' whatever that may be, wouldn't it be in your best interest to chuck the whole thing, and instead retain your focus on the gita, bhAgavatam, and the rest? Something to think about, eh?

[guliaditya]

 

Then why is your avatar picture, a picture of Sri Sri Radha Krsna? I never heard of Sri Narayana playing a flute?

 

CC Madhya 23.84-85: "'Above Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa has four specific transcendental qualities — His wonderful pastimes, an abundance of wonderful associates who are very dear to Him [like the gopīs], His wonderful beauty and the wonderful vibration of His flute. Lord Kṛṣṇa is more exalted than ordinary living beings and demigods like Lord Śiva. He is even more exalted than His personal expansion Nārāyaṇa. In all, the Supreme Personality of Godhead has sixty-four transcendental qualities in full.'

 

I appreciate your concern & at the same time surprised also.

 

I don't see there is any difference between Lord Narayana & Lord Krishna. It is Lord Narayana who takes all the avtaars.

 

esha vai bhagavân sâkshâd

âdyo nârâyanah pumân

mohayan mâyayâ lokam

gûdhas' carati vrishnishu(SB 1.9.18)

 

TRANSLATION

This S'rî Krishna is no other than the inconceivable, original Personality of Godhead. He is the first Nârâyana, the supreme enjoyer. But He is moving amongst the descendants of King Vrishni just like one of us and He is bewildering us with His self-created energy.

 

Hence if I worship Lord Narayan or Lord Krishna, how does it matter????

 

Pranaam

 

 

[Dark Warrior]

 

Then why is your avatar picture, a picture of Sri Sri Radha Krsna? I never heard of Sri Narayana playing a flute?

 

CC Madhya 23.84-85: "'Above Nārāyaṇa, Kṛṣṇa has four specific transcendental qualities — His wonderful pastimes, an abundance of wonderful associates who are very dear to Him [like the gopīs], His wonderful beauty and the wonderful vibration of His flute. Lord Kṛṣṇa is more exalted than ordinary living beings and demigods like Lord Śiva. He is even more exalted than His personal expansion Nārāyaṇa. In all, the Supreme Personality of Godhead has sixty-four transcendental qualities in full.'

 

Again, not even a Gaudiya Vaishnava differentiates Vishnu and Krishna. They are one and the same. The Gaudiyas believe that Vishnu is an avatar of Krishna, whereas the other sects believe that Krishna is an avatar of Vishnu.

 

Many Hare Krishna members unfortunately confuse this philosophy. The idea that Krishna and Vishnu are not equal is even against Gaudiya Vaishnava theology.

 

Nobody can accept that the Lord only has 64 qualities. He has infinite qualities (Neti Neti, ie, Not just this, Not just that, says the Upanishads).

 

I think this 64 attributes list was put forward by Jiva Goswami (not sure). If so, he must have meant that these 64 qualities were the most significant ones and not that Sri Krishna had ONLY 64 qualities.

[Beggar]

 

Again, not even a Gaudiya Vaishnava differentiates Vishnu and Krishna. They are one and the same. The Gaudiyas believe that Vishnu is an avatar of Krishna, whereas the other sects believe that Krishna is an avatar of Vishnu.

 

Many Hare Krishna members unfortunately confuse this philosophy. The idea that Krishna and Vishnu are not equal is even against Gaudiya Vaishnava theology...

 

 

Srila Bhaktivedanta Narayana Maharaja:

 

Krsna has two types of expansions in this connection. One is called svamsa and the other vibhinamsa. The svamsa expansions are His plenary portions or portions of His plenary portions; and the vibhinamsa expansions are His infinitesimal parts and parcels, the living entities. In tattva-vicara (the consideration of philosophical truth) His plenary incarnations are one with Him, but by rasa-vicara (the consideration of transcendental mellows, humors or relationships) they are different. Sri Krsna is the source of all incarnations and all others are His incarnations or manifestations.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

If, by your own admission, there's so much confusion regarding Jesus and his 'teaching,' whatever that may be, wouldn't it be in your best interest to chuck the whole thing, and instead retain your focus on the gita, bhAgavatam, and the rest? Something to think about, eh?

Well, the Gospel of Phillip doesn't include Jesus' words in it (or hardly any of them, it's been a while since I've read it). I don't see why I have to chuck out good teachings. They're good teachings whether he was real or not. I like the character of Jesus. I don't see why people have to insult it. Whether real or ficticious, he has some very wise teachings attributed to him.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

Hence if I worship Lord Narayan or Lord Krishna, how does it matter????

 

Pranaam

 

 

They're one and the same, so I really don't understand the problem either. Even if one does believe that Lord Krishna is divinity in it's highest form, and one of his forms is Narayana, then I still don't see a problem. There are many people that only meditate on the form of Lord Chaitanya or the form of Lord Rama, and they're just as progressed in love of Krishna (through these forms) as anyone else.

[Beggar]

 

They're one and the same, so I really don't understand the problem either. Even if one does believe that Lord Krishna is divinity in it's highest form, and one of his forms is Narayana, then I still don't see a problem. There are many people that only meditate on the form of Lord Chaitanya or the form of Lord Rama, and they're just as progressed in love of Krishna (through these forms) as anyone else.

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja

ONE POINTED BHAKTI

 

 

ananyas cintayanto mam ye janah paryupasate

tesam nityabhiyuktanam yoga ksemam vahamy aham

 

 

'Ananyas cintaya' Na-anya. You know what ananya means?

 

 

Govinda Bhakata Prabhu: One pointed; exclusive; no diversion.

 

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Sarva dharman parityajya, mam ekam. What does 'mam ekam' mean?

 

 

Syamarani dasi: Only to me.

 

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Then what is the meaning of ananya? It has also been said, 'api cet su duracaro bhayate mam ananya bhakti'. What is the meaning of ananya here? Prabhu?

 

 

Vraja Vallabha Prabhu: Exclusive.

 

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja: What is meaning of exclusive?

 

 

Govinda Bhakata Prabhu: Only to Krishna.

 

 

Prema Prayojana Prabhu: Excluding everything except for one.

 

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja: If it is Radha and Krishna who we are serving, is it ananya or not? Who are you worshiping? Krishna or Radhika? If you are worshiping both, it will not be ananya.

 

 

Syamarani dasi: Sakti, saktimatayo aveda (there is no difference between the energy and the energetic, Radha and Krishna).

 

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja: But even so, they come as Krishna and Radhika. They are always two.

 

 

Syamarani dasi: So just serve Radhika.

 

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Yes, then it will be ananya. And our relation with Krishna is to please Radhika. She is our worshipful deity, our isvari. What does isvari means?

 

 

Syamarani dasi: Worshipful deity.

 

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja: Our Deity is Radhika. I am an eternal maidservant of Radhika. My relation to Krishna is not direct. Krishna is the beloved of Radhika; so to please Radhika, I am serving Krishna under Her guidance. In this way it is ananya - in our line of disciplic succession.

 

 

But, if you are worshiping Sriman Mahaprabhu and Sri Nityananda, there will be four; and in that case there is no ananya. How can we reconcile this? Mahaprabhu is Krishna Himself, and He has come to give Krishna-prema to this world. He is therefore like guru. If anyone is worshiping guru, and also Mahaprabhu, or Radhika, or Radha-Krishna conjugal, this is not even 'two'. It is still one. I am under the guidance of gurudeva, and I am serving Srimati Radhika with Her beloved.

 

 

Here Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the guru. Consider Him 'saci-sunum nandisvara-pati-sutatve guru-varam'. Although He is Krishna Himself, taking the dhuti (luster) and the inner mood of Sri Radhika, He has descended to this world to give Krishna-prema. He is like a guru. He is the guru of Srila Sanatana Gosvami, and the guru of Srila Rupa Gosvami in Prayaga. He also empowered and inspired Sri Raya Ramananda. So we should consider Caitanya Mahaprabhu as guru. Then there is no duality - only one. Saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastrair. Guru is non-different from Krishna.

 

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja

ONE POINTED BHAKTI

 

I've never read this before, but I'm really glad I'm a Radharani-Bhakta right about now I have a picture of Her alone in the forest that I always chant in front of, and I always wondered if Sri Krishna was okay with me concentrating on only Her form, and I guess He is Thank you Beggar Prabhu for this beautiful post.

[suchandra]

The religions should also understand that presently they're all under attack and like cry for help (see article below) from Christians in Iraq, things are not very different anywhere else. War against Christianity, war against Hinduism, war against the Hare Krishnas...Since any war has one loser and one winner time to wake up and do the needful.

 

The War Against Christianity

 

 

Hussein Al-Alak – April 25, 2008

 

 

There is a war against Iraq’s Christians taking place, at the behest of two allegedly Christ-loving regimes and one supposed Islamic government, with one commonality being their need to hide behind the walls of Jericho to carry out the persecution of men, women and children.

 

How else can any one describe the systematic ethnic cleansing of Iraq’s Christians, who were born and raised in the land between two rivers, the land which gave birth to the founder of the three major religions and whose lineage of Judaism, Christianity and Islam is now the land which being destroyed at the hands of “god fearing” heathens.

 

It has been five years and still silence is the golden fleece for Britain and America. They have chosen to ignore the murders - the beheadings, the attacks, the forced displacement and increases in taxation upon the Christians for refusing to convert, the intimidation by militias upon women for not wearing a headscarf .

 

Most Christians in Iraq are Chaldeans, members of an Eastern Rite denomination that recognizes the pope's authority. Other sizable denominations include the Assyrian Catholic Church, which traces its roots to the 1st century. Iraqi Christians are also affiliated with the Church of the East, the Anglican Church and other Protestant faiths. Pope Benedict XVI and President Bush said that in a meeting last week they discussed the "precarious state" of Christian communities in Iraq and elsewhere in the Middle East.

 

The Bishop of Mosul reported in 2006 that a “fourteen year old boy was crucified in Al Basra” and how members of the US/UK trained Iraqi Police forces, have assaulted “civilian passers-by with anti-Christian and racist slurs” - grotesque acts which apparently Britain takes seriously within its own borders, when addressing “institutional racism” in the police force and cases relating to honour killings against its own civilians.

 

But how the West has turned the other cheek, when Paulos Iskandar the Syriac-Orhtodox priest was beheaded in October 2006, and how they failed to act when reports emerged from Iraqi newspaper Azzaman, when they reported that US troops were taking over churches and using them for military purposes, with over fifty percent of Iraq’s Christians having believed to have already fled.

 

In March this year, Paulos Faraj Rahho, archbishop of Mosul's Chaldean community, was found dead after being abducted. This month, Youssef Adel, an Assyrian Orthodox priest, was fatally shot in a drive-by attack in Karrada, one of Baghdad's safest neighbourhoods and home to Abdal's Holy Catholic Assyrian Church

 

Let's not forget the looting of churches, the bomb attacks carried out against congregations. Let's remember the priests, decons and other members of the Christian Church who have become the victims of sectarian kidnappings, and how militias have taken their hatred of a multi-national society and left their victims' heads on the doorsteps of God's holy “house“.

 

The Western response has been typically quiet, and in an effort to be emphasise its multi-cultural credentials, the Socialist Worker reported how the, “highlight” of one Stop the War Coalition demonstration in “Red” Ken Livingston’s London was Sheikh Zagani, foreign affairs spokesperson for Moqtada al-Sadr, who under the noses of New Labour, MI5, MI6 and the Foreign Office announced to 100,000 non-Burkha-wearing British people that, “We are the voice of humanity,” but failed to mention the murders of Christians, Palestinians, Shiite, Sunni, the destruction of ancient sites, the collapse of the health service, the murder of academics, and growing illiteracy.

 

Asia News has also reported that the Iranian-backed Mehdi Army death squads, have been threatening women into the forced wearing of the “veil”, with IRIN reporting how the Mehdi have also been responsible for the “hunting” down of women for “religious reasons or because they had criticised the militants” or, as one resident put it, "They accuse them [the women victims] of different things such as prostitution, or of being informants for Iraqi and US forces, or of not wearing a headscarf or for wearing Western clothes,"

 

Al-Sadr’s forces have also been responsible for the murders of homosexuals, which they claim to be “sexual perverts”, along with having murdered members of Iraq’s Palestinians community. Unlike the Mehdi Army, which was brought to Iraq in 2003, the Palestinian community has been resident in the country since the creation of the state of Israel.

 

It is perhaps hardly surprising that the US and UK should fail to act upon the plight of the Christians, when most people in “liberated” Britain don’t even know that under Saddam Hussain, the various religions were celebrated and not persecuted, and that many in the US still think that Saddam was behind the 9/11 twin towers attack.

 

At present, Iraq’s Christians are one of the few communities left which do not have their own army to protect themselves, something that maybe the Christian community should consider as being essential, if only to assist and save the lives of religious minorities against slaughter in present-day Iraq.

 

 

 

Hussein Al-Alak is Chairman of the Iraq Solidarity Campaign.

 

[Malati dasi]

 

 

from Beggar's post: Srila Narayana Maharaja: Our Deity is Radhika. I am an eternal maidservant of Radhika. My relation to Krishna is not direct. Krishna is the beloved of Radhika; so to please Radhika, I am serving Krishna under Her guidance. In this way it is ananya - in our line of disciplic succession.

But, if you are worshiping Sriman Mahaprabhu and Sri Nityananda, there will be four; and in that case there is no ananya. How can we reconcile this? Mahaprabhu is Krishna Himself, and He has come to give Krishna-prema to this world. He is therefore like guru. If anyone is worshiping guru, and also Mahaprabhu, or Radhika, or Radha-Krishna conjugal, this is not even 'two'. It is still one. I am under the guidance of gurudeva, and I am serving Srimati Radhika with Her beloved.

Here Caitanya Mahaprabhu is the guru. Consider Him 'saci-sunum nandisvara-pati-sutatve guru-varam'. Although He is Krishna Himself, taking the dhuti (luster) and the inner mood of Sri Radhika, He has descended to this world to give Krishna-prema. He is like a guru. He is the guru of Srila Sanatana Gosvami, and the guru of Srila Rupa Gosvami in Prayaga. He also empowered and inspired Sri Raya Ramananda. So we should consider Caitanya Mahaprabhu as guru. Then there is no duality - only one. Saksad-dharitvena samasta-sastrair. Guru is non-different from Krishna.

 

 

 

 

 

That's beautiful, beggar. That is the core of Gaudiya Vaishnavism as profounded by our foundational acharyas. And that is why Gvs are called ekantic bhaktas-- being one pointed in devotion.

 

Radhe Radhe

[Dark Warrior]

Mainly philosophical differences exist. I don't think these are significant, as long as one understands that Narayana is non-different from Krishna. Eka Bhakti to Krishna is quite admirable, as long as this fact is understood. The Gaudiya Vaishnava sampradaya has a long and illustrious list of Krishna bhaktas, no doubt about that.

 

I have no intentions of arguing over this. Just stop considering Narayana as 'inferior' to Krishna. Trust me, the Sri Vaishnava alvars had moods of conjugal love towards Lord Rama. Periyalvar had motherly feelings for Trivikrama, Rama, Narasimha and Krishna.

 

Sri Nammalvar, in His divine bhakti, becomes two persons. One is Parankusa Nayaki, the lover of Lord Rama. The other is the mother of Parankusa Nayaki. Read this particular exercept from the Divya Prabandham:

 

She (Nammalvar in nayika bhavam) disagrees with me when I found fault with You. She calls You, "You who bear the shower of arrows on Your broad beautiful chest, just for your sweetheart! ". She appears to be in an emotional transformation to the personality of Sita, since she appeals to You : "You did so much then ; Crossed the sea, fought the hundreds of rAkshasAs, obliterated Lanka ....all this for me. Now, you can quickly come on Your favourite Garuda, raising the Garuda-banner aloft, as You are always used to when Your devotees seek Your help". Saying so, she heaves a very warm sigh; her inflammed passion is an easy incendiary to nearby greens. And she sheds tears to exhaust the rest of her pangs. Ans she folds her hands in supplication - she who deserves it from You - which justly merits Your coming here immedietly with an anjali for making amend for the delay. Please do so.

 

Here, Nammalvar as the mother, laments about how her daughter (who is Nammalvar as well in conjugal mood) is hopelessly infatuated with Sri Rama!! Truly, this is a mood that highlights the greatness of this acharya. There are also several philosophical meanings in this, but I will skip those.

 

An example of Periyalvar's motherly love to Narasimha - He is afraid that Narasimha may be feeling a bit weak during His battle with Hiryanakasipu. Because according to Periyalvar, Lord Narasimha was only just born, and hence, He was a baby who had to fight Hiranyakasipu on His first day!! So Periyalvar starts crying over baby Narasimha.

 

I think the Prabandham is sufficient proof that all avatars of the Lord possess the desirable trait of accessibility.

[cbrahma]

 

By Dr. A.D. Srirangapriya Ramanujadasan

<!--start section-->“We find great shelter at the lotus feet of Sri Ramanujacharya because his lotus feet are the strongest fort to combat the Mayavadi philosophy.” (Srila Prabhupada letter, November 22, 1974)

Srila Prabhupada is the foremost modern representative of the Madhva-Gaudiya Vaishnava sampradaya (lineage). Sri Ramanujacharya (1017-1137) was from the Sri Vaishnava sampradaya. Why then does Srila Prabhupada revere Sri Ramanujacharya? Moreover, in the Age of Quarrel, what does Srila Prabhupada’s attitude towards Sri Ramanujacharya teach us about unity and etiquette?

First, although Srila Prabhupada was not a theological post-modernist who taught “anything goes,” he was not sectarian. He affirmed that God is the Supreme Person and we are his eternal servants. He appreciated such sentiments, whether expressed in Judaic, Christian, Islamic, or even existential terms

 

 

 

No doubt there are some differences between the Sri Vaishnava and Madhva-Gaudiya sampradayas. Sri Vaishnavas believe Sriman Narayana to be the Supreme Person and the root of all incarnations; Madhva-Gaudiyas hold Sri Krishna to be Supreme, with Sriman Narayana and others as his incarnations

 

 

Śrīmad Bhāgavatam 1.3.28

ete cāḿśa-kalāḥ puḿsaḥ

kṛṣṇas tu bhagavān svayam

indrāri-vyākulaḿ lokaḿ

mṛḍayanti yuge yuge

SYNONYMS

ete — all these; ca — and; aḿśa — plenary portions; kalāḥ — portions of the plenary portions; puḿsaḥ — of the Supreme; kṛṣṇaḥ — Lord Kṛṣṇa; tu — but; bhagavān — the Personality of Godhead; svayam — in person; indra-ari — the enemies of Indra; vyākulam — disturbed; lokam — all the planets; mṛḍayanti — gives protection; yuge yuge — in different ages.

TRANSLATION

All of the above-mentioned incarnations are either plenary portions or portions of the plenary portions of the Lord, but Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the original Personality of Godhead. All of them appear on planets whenever there is a disturbance created by the atheists. The Lord incarnates to protect the theists.

PURPORT

In this particular stanza Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, the Personality of Godhead, is distinguished from other incarnations. He is counted amongst the avatāras (incarnations) because out of His causeless mercy the Lord descends from His transcendental abode. Avatāra means "one who descends." All the incarnations of the Lord, including the Lord Himself, descend on the different planets of the material world as also in different species of life to fulfill particular missions. Sometimes He comes Himself, and sometimes His different plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions, or His differentiated portions directly or indirectly empowered by Him, descend on this material world to execute certain specific functions. Originally the Lord is full of all opulences, all prowess, all fame, all beauty, all knowledge and all renunciation. When they are partly manifested through the plenary portions or parts of the plenary portions, it should be noted that certain manifestations of His different powers are required for those particular functions. When in the room small electric bulbs are displayed, it does not mean that the electric powerhouse is limited by the small bulbs. The same powerhouse can supply power to operate large-scale industrial dynamos with greater volts. Similarly, the incarnations of the Lord display limited powers because so much power is needed at that particular time.

For example, Lord Paraśurāma and Lord Nṛsiḿha displayed unusual opulence by killing the disobedient kṣatriyas twenty-one times and killing the greatly powerful atheist Hiraṇyakaśipu. Hiraṇyakaśipu was so powerful that even the demigods in other planets would tremble simply by the unfavorable raising of his eyebrow. The demigods in the higher level of material existence many, many times excel the most well-to-do human beings, in duration of life, beauty, wealth, paraphernalia, and in all other respects. Still they were afraid of Hiraṇyakaśipu. Thus we can simply imagine how powerful Hiraṇyakaśipu was in this material world. But even Hiraṇyakaśipu was cut into small pieces by the nails of Lord Nṛsiḿha. This means that anyone materially powerful cannot stand the strength of the Lord's nails. Similarly, Jāmadagnya displayed the Lord's power to kill all the disobedient kings powerfully situated in their respective states. The Lord's empowered incarnation Nārada and plenary incarnation Varāha, as well as indirectly empowered Lord Buddha, created faith in the mass of people. The incarnations of Rāma and Dhanvantari displayed His fame, and Balarāma, Mohinī and Vāmana exhibited His beauty. Dattātreya, Matsya, Kumāra and Kapila exhibited His transcendental knowledge. Nara and Nārāyaṇa Ṛṣis exhibited His renunciation. So all the different incarnations of the Lord indirectly or directly manifested different features, but Lord Kṛṣṇa, the primeval Lord, exhibited the complete features of Godhead, and thus it is confirmed that He is the source of all other incarnations. And the most extraordinary feature exhibited by Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa was His internal energetic manifestation of His pastimes with the cowherd girls. His pastimes with the gopīs are all displays of transcendental existence, bliss and knowledge, although these are manifested apparently as sex love. The specific attraction of His pastimes with the gopīs should never be misunderstood. The Bhāgavatam relates these transcendental pastimes in the Tenth Canto. And in order to reach the position to understand the transcendental nature of Lord Kṛṣṇa's pastimes with the gopīs, the Bhāgavatam promotes the student gradually in nine other cantos.

According to Śrīla Jīva Gosvāmī's statement, in accordance with authoritative sources, Lord Kṛṣṇa is the source of all other incarnations. It is not that Lord Kṛṣṇa has any source of incarnation. All the symptoms of the Supreme Truth in full are present in the person of Lord Śrī Kṛṣṇa, and in the Bhagavad-gītā the Lord emphatically declares that there is no truth greater than or equal to Himself. In this stanza the word svayam is particularly mentioned to confirm that Lord Kṛṣṇa has no other source than Himself. Although in other places the incarnations are described as bhagavān because of their specific functions, nowhere are they declared to be the Supreme Personality. In this stanza the word svayam signifies the supremacy as the summum bonum.

The summum bonum Kṛṣṇa is one without a second. He Himself has expanded Himself in various parts, portions and particles as svayaḿ-rūpa, svayam-prakāśa, tad-ekātmā, prābhava, vaibhava, vilāsa, avatāra, āveśa, and jīvas, all provided with innumerable energies just suitable to the respective persons and personalities. Learned scholars in transcendental subjects have carefully analyzed the summum bonum Kṛṣṇa to have sixty-four principal attributes. All the expansions or categories of the Lord possess only some percentages of these attributes. But Śrī Kṛṣṇa is the possessor of the attributes cent percent. And His personal expansions such as svayam-prakāśa, tad-ekātmā up to the categories of the avatāras who are all viṣṇu-tattva, possess up to ninety-three percent of these transcendental attributes. Lord Śiva, who is neither avatāra nor āveśa nor in between them, possesses almost eighty-four percent of the attributes. But the jīvas, or the individual living beings in different statuses of life, possess up to the limit of seventy-eight percent of the attributes. In the conditioned state of material existence, the living being possesses these attributes in very minute quantity, varying in terms of the pious life of the living being. The most perfect of living beings is Brahmā, the supreme administrator of one universe. He possesses seventy-eight percent of the attributes in full. All other demigods have the same attributes in less quantity, whereas human beings possess the attributes in very minute quantity. The standard of perfection for a human being is to develop the attributes up to seventy-eight percent in full. The living being can never possess attributes like Śiva, Viṣṇu or Lord Kṛṣṇa. A living being can become godly by developing the seventy-eight-percent transcendental attributes in fullness, but he can never become a God like Śiva, Viṣṇu or Kṛṣṇa. He can become a Brahmā in due course. The godly living beings who are all residents of the planets in the spiritual sky are eternal associates of God in different spiritual planets called Hari-dhāma and Maheśa-dhāma. The abode of Lord Kṛṣṇa above all spiritual planets is called Kṛṣṇaloka or Goloka Vṛndāvana, and the perfected living being, by developing seventy-eight percent of the above attributes in fullness, can enter the planet of Kṛṣṇaloka after leaving the present material body.

 

[Dark Warrior]

We have a different meaning for that verse:

 

'Krishnas tu Bhagavan Swayam', does not mean other avatars are 'plenary portions'. We learn from Upanishads and Vedas that Narayana is Brahman. We do not accept a difference between 'Bhagavan' and 'Brahman', because Brahman is simply Bhagavan...He has all auspicious attributes.

 

So, 'Krishnas tu Bhagavan Svayam' means - 'Krishna is verily that Bhagavan Himself'. Who is that Bhagavan? It is Vishnu. So it means, 'Krishna is verily that Vishnu/Narayana Himself'.

 

Understand that the 'amsa' word does not pertain to Narayana, because Krishna is being hailed as Narayana Himself (svayam bhagavan) in this verse. In the previous two verses, sutar says that the number of incarnations of Sriman Narayana (Hari) are innumerable like thousands of rivulets flowing from a river & goes on to say that Rishis & devas (demigods),Manus & Prajapatis are all amsas of Lord Hari.

 

So, here, to clear things up, Sutar says, 'All others (Rishis, Manus, etc.) are merely amsas, but Krishna is svayam Bhagavan, ie, Svayam Narayana'. Note that the amsas do NOT include avatars like Rama or Narasimha.

 

Compared to other avatars, Sri Krishna exhibited all attributes openly. Lord Rama chose to hide them, for instance. But if you say Rama did not play the flute, I could say that Krishna did not fight with bow and arrow, or that Krishna did not have just one wife (like Rama), etc. Its elementary - all avatars of the Lord, except the Shaktyavesa, are purna and have all attributes.

 

Don't bring up the bit about sectarianism again.

 

There's no doubt that a Bhakta gets Moksha, no matter what Sampradaya he belongs to. Therfore, I have always respected all acharyas, as they were great bhagavatas (Sri Madhva, Sri Nimbarka, Sri Chaitanya, etc.). The philosophy, however, is another matter. I do not agree with Acintya Bheda Abheda, Dvaita, Shuddhadvaita, etc.

 

But these differences are insignificant. One can read devotional literature of other sampradayas without needlessly involving oneself in debates. Sri Hari is the leader for all Vaishnavas, and hence, we can be united in that aspect.