Sanatana dharma defined

[theist]

Therefore, sanatana-dharma does not refer to any sectarian process of religion. It is the eternal function of the eternal living entities in relationship with the eternal Supreme Lord. Sanatana-dharma refers, as stated previously, to the eternal occupation of the living entity. Sripada Ramanujacarya has explained the word sanatana as "that which has neither beginning nor end," so when we speak of sanatana-dharma, we must take it for granted on the authority of Sripada Ramanujacarya that it has neither beginning nor end.

 

The English world religion is a little different from sanatana-dharma. Religion conveys the idea of faith, and faith may change. One may have faith in a particular process, and he may change this faith and adopt another, but sanatana-dharma refers to that activity which cannot be changed. For instance, liquidity cannot be taken from water, nor can heat be taken from fire. Similarly, the eternal function of the eternal living entity cannot be taken from the living entity. Sanatana-dharma is eternally integral with the living entity. When we speak of sanatana-dharma, therefore, we must take it for granted on the authority of Sripada Ramanujacarya that it has neither beginning nor end. That which has neither end nor beginning must not be sectarian, for it cannot be limited by any boundaries. Those belonging to some sectarian faith will wrongly consider that sanatana-dharma is also sectarian, but if we go deeply into the matter and consider it in the light of modern science, it is possible for us to see that sanatana-dharma is the business of all the people of the world—nay, of all the living entities of the universe.

 

Non-sanatana religious faith may have some beginning in the annals of human history, but there is no beginning to the history of sanatana-dharma, because it remains eternally with the living entities. Insofar as the living entities are concerned, the authoritative sastras state that the living entity has neither birth nor death. In the Gita it is stated that the living entity is never born and he never dies. He is eternal and indestructible, and he continues to live after the destruction of his temporary material body. In reference to the concept of sanatana-dharma, we must try to understand the concept of religion from the Sanskrit root meaning of the word. Dharma refers to that which is constantly existing with a particular object. We conclude that there is heat and light along with the fire; without heat and light, there is no meaning to the word fire. Similarly, we must discover the essential part of the living being, that part which is his constant companion. That constant companion is his eternal quality, and that eternal quality is his eternal religion.-Bhagavad gita introduction

[thehat]

Thanks for posting this Theist, its a very interesting article. I'm going to read this properly in the evening. I don't even recall seeing this in the Gita introduction.

[theist]

 

Thanks for posting this Theist, its a very interesting article. I'm going to read this properly in the evening. I don't even recall seeing this in the Gita introduction.

 

This happens to me everytime I reread something I haven't read in a while. I always see new things or things in a new light or am reminded of things forgotten.

 

I am finding Prabhupada's teachings grow and expand right along with our ability to appreciate what he has to say. I forsee no time in the future where I will outgrow his books and commentaries.

[bija]

Similarly, the eternal function of the eternal living entity cannot be taken from the living entity. Sanatana-dharma is eternally integral with the living entity. by Prabhupada

Thank you Theist, same, everytime I read new things come into understanding.

[Tirisilex]

EXCELLENT Theist! Very well said!

[Tirisilex]

I know it may be hard for some to accept this.. But Last night I heard Krishna playing his flute for me with amazing skill.. I love him so much..

[bija]

Nice....imagine how we will discover the finer nuances of his sweet music as we hear day by day. The subtle notes, the trills, the variations of breathe. Surely his music will mature in our appreciation hey Tiri:pray:

 

Its sunny day here, just finished gardening, time to sit in the sun near the plants and do some Holy Name vibration. cya soon.

[cbrahma]

definitive

[Beggar]

 

I know it may be hard for some to accept this.. But Last night I heard Krishna playing his flute for me with amazing skill.. I love him so much..

Srila Sridhar Maharaj said that if an advanced devotee will have such an experience (or similar) then they will think, "It is not possible, this could not be the real Krsna, I am so unqualified". Another time he said that even if we have such an experience then we should think, "I don't want that Krsna, I want that Krsna which is very difficult to attain."

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja:

 

Even Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu, in the mood of Srimati Radhika, has said:

na prema-gandho ’sti darapi me harau

krandami saubhagya-bharam prakasitum

vamsi-vilasy-anana-lokanam vina

bibharmi yat prana-patangakan vrtha

Sri Caitanya-caritamrta (Madhya-lila 2.45)

[“My dear friends, I have not the slightest tinge of love of Godhead within My heart. When you see Me crying in separation, I am just falsely exhibiting a demonstration of My great fortune. Indeed, not seeing the beautiful face of Krsna playing His flute, I continue to live My life like an insect, without purpose.”]

“I have not even a scent of bhakti to Krsna. I am more wretched than anyone.” Radhika Herself is saying, “Oh, the forest deer are superior to me. They can go near to Krsna and beg His love and affection as a beloved, but we cannot go there. The rivers are also so much more fortunate than us gopis. Krsna goes to the Yamuna to bathe and she can embrace Krsna; she can give Him a lotus flower from her hand-like waves. She can give her whole heart to Krsna and tell Him, ‘O my beloved.’ When Krsna plays on His flute, she becomes stunned and stops flowing. She is much greater than us, for we cannot do as she does.

“And what is the condition of the calves and cows? The cows are grazing, but when they hear the sweet sound of Krsna’s flute, they raise their ears to hear and to drink in the sweet nectar of that flute. Their calves also drink the nectar of Krsna’s flute through their ears. While they drink the milk from their mothers’ udders, they hear the flute, and at that time they forget the milk altogether; they neither swallow it nor spit it out, and it simply remains in their mouths. Oh, we are not like this.”

Mahaprabhu similarly laments, “The fish are superior to me. If they are taken from water, they will die at once; but I am not dying although I have no darsana of Krsna. How wretched I am!”

[Beggar]

 

I know it may be hard for some to accept this.. But Last night I heard Krishna playing his flute for me with amazing skill..

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja:

 

There is one thing to note here. We should try to keep that transcendental wealth in our heart, like our own soul. We should not distribute it. If you distribute it, what will happen? It will become like camphor kept in the open air. It will evaporate in a moment. Camphor should be kept in a bottle with some black pepper - airtight. Then it will not evaporate.

We should only let it out as Mahaprabhu did - with only three and one half persons - because it is our life and soul. Otherwise, even if tears are coming, after some time you will see that your tears have gone and they will never return. Try to keep all this in mind. Keep it sacred and secret. Don't take it to the market, the fish market, or here and there. Only speak deeply to those who are very qualified. Whisper in their ears. This very careful whispering is like the black pepper. My dear children, try to obey all these things. Otherwise you will lose everything.

[shvu]

More than a response to post #1, this is really a response to post #8 [which has since been removed by a moderator]. It would be shameful to look on and not act to curtail ignorance and falsities when we see them. And certainly not when we see moronic attempts of Christians trying to redefine Hinduism.

 

Half knowledge is worse than no knowledge. However, here it appears increasingly obvious that half knowledge is all there is for people who take the “Prabhupada said so” approach.

 

It is commonly misunderstood that Sanatana Dharma is an ancient and original name of Hinduism – the reasons being it is made up of Sanskrit words and most writers themselves are unaware of its origin and therefore assume its antiquity in their writings, thus further propagating the error.

 

The word Hindu is of Persian Origin. Several centuries of foreign rule during the second millennium AD eventually bought out enough resentment of everything foreign in the minds of some indigenous Hindus of India which was the time [19<SUP id=gk1- goog_docs_charIndex="881">th</SUP> Century] when they started revolting against British rule. About the same time, some the educated people for various reasons decided to rename Hinduism as Sanatana Dharma. The reason behind the name was the belief that The Vedas are eternal and therefore Hinduism which had some roots in the Vedas must also be eternal. So the reality is the other way around. The name Hindu is much older than the name Sanatana Dharma. Needless to say, the usage of Sanatana Dharma as a noun naming the religion is completely absent in scriptures ranging from the Rig-Veda to literature as recent as the 18<SUP id=qeb7 goog_docs_charIndex="1477">th</SUP> century AD. It just did not exist.

 

However, in spite of its recent origin, the sanskrit name has become quite popular in some sections and leading dictionaries have recognized Sanatana Dharma as a synonym for Hinduism.

 

Though this is a general spiritual form, Hare Krishnas form the majority of participants and therefore a special note of their interpretation of Sanatana Dharma is in order. Prabhupada the founder, clearly unaware of the political and recent origin of the term Sanatana Dharma, went overboard in writing long rambles of what the name means which is grossly incorrect. This is not the only mistake he has made however. The long list includes alternative views on moon landings, alternative theories on gravitation, incorrect meanings for Hinduism and Vaishnavism, believing the moon to be a star, and perhaps also believing the earth was flat!

 

Some of his mentally challenged followers – mostly of Christian background – have been known to exhibit extreme fanaticism by adamantly sticking on to the “Prabhupada version” even in the face of glaring evidence saying otherwise. They probably find it easy to take the “Don’t make me think” position as this type of religious fundamentalism is not uncommon among Christians and in most cases these fanatics dropped out of school, lacking basic education required to think clearly and without prejudice for more than ten seconds at a stretch.

 

As Rajan Parikar put it aptly several years ago,

 

Let me first list some of their virtues:

 

1) Nice, friendly, personable fellows.

2) They make excellent food and are enthusiastic about sharing it with others; In particular, their semolina halva gets a solid A.

3) They sing besura bhajans and pronounce them as "baajaans."

 

They have only one vice: They don't know what the hell they're talking about:-)

 

To close, take statements from the Christian turned Hare Krishnas with large doses of salt, as most of their statements come without supporting evidence and the only justification they can provide is “Prabhupada said so”. If that is all the evidence you need, then their statements are correct. If not, then they are usually incorrect.

 

And for the denser ones, if you want to prove me wrong on the origin of the term Sanatana Dharma, avoid empty quotes or long rants from Takurs and Srilas. You are however free to engage in your usual ad hominem spiels. We have seen them for so long that we have grown accustomed to them.

 

Cheers

[suchandra]

 

We should strictly avoid those false religionists who try to bring us down into the material cesspool with other definitions for sanatan dharma even if there are wearing a vaisnava suit.

Good point - as also reported below, things must have been horrible already 30 years ago, how much degenerated it must be today?

 

"Just like in Calcutta we have seen there are small slaughterhouses, and they have posted one deity, Goddess Kālī, and have got sacred thread, and the signboard is: “This meat is slaughtered by a brāhmaṇa. Therefore it is pure. Therefore it is pure.” And that is going on. Oh, the meat-eaters, they take all this meat, and they think, “It is the prasāda of Goddess Kālī, and it is slaughtered by a brāhmaṇa. There is no sin; it is all right.” This is going on. No. Brāhmaṇa is not meant for becoming a slaughterer, a killer. No. Brāhmaṇa should be truthful, brāhmaṇa should be cleansed, no sinful life. Brāhmaṇa should be controlling the senses, controlling the mind. Brāhmaṇa must be well-educated, jñāna, and he must apply the knowledge in practical life and believe in the Vedic injunctions. These are the qualifications of brāhmaṇa. Similarly, there are qualification of kṣatriyas, vaiśyas. We should follow that. And it is the duty of the government to see that “This man is claiming as a brāhmaṇa, whether he is actually executing the duties of brāhmaṇa?” That is government’s duty. Not that they should simply fight that “I am brāhmaṇa,” “I am kṣatriya,” “I am Hindu,” “I am Muslim.” No. The government’s duty is to see that actually whether he is as he claims to be."

 

Bhagavad-gītā 2.2-6

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

Ahmedabad, December 11, 1972

 

 

full lecture: http://causelessmercy.com/t/t/721211BG.AHM.htm

 

[theist]

Poor shvu. Totally missed Prabhupada's point yet again. Well at least he is consistent.

[Beggar]

shvu is like a bee trying to taste the honey in a sealed honey jar.

[Kulapavana]

 

Therefore, sanatana-dharma does not refer to any sectarian process of religion. It is the eternal function of the eternal living entities in relationship with the eternal Supreme Lord. Sanatana-dharma refers, as stated previously, to the eternal occupation of the living entity.

 

If you are really advanced, you may engage in sanatana dharma while practicing your chosen religion such as Gaudiya Vaishanvism, Sri Vaishnavism, or even Shivaism.

 

Do you see my point? Iskcon is a religious organization where people may one day ascend to the platform of sanatana dharma, but the movement itself is a religion.

[cbrahma]

 

but the movement itself is a religion.

The movement has become a religion. It is not being implemented the way Prabhupad clearly instructed for a whole variety of reasons which are the topic of another thread.

[suchandra]

 

If you are really advanced, you may engage in sanatana dharma while practicing your chosen religion such as Gaudiya Vaishanvism, Sri Vaishnavism, or even Shivaism.

 

Do you see my point? Iskcon is a religious organization where people may one day ascend to the platform of sanatana dharma, but the movement itself is a religion.

Hopefully there're enough days till this goal will be reached.

 

"The human being should exert the energy for that thing which he did not get in many, many lives. Many, many lives he had been in the form of dogs or demigods or cats, birds, beasts, many. There are 8,400,000. So this transmigration is going on, but in everywhere the business is sense gratification. The dog is busy for sense gratification. Where is food, where is shelter, where is woman or man, and where is defense. And the man is also doing the same business in different forms. So this is going on, life after life. Even in small insect, this is also trying for the same thing. Same struggle, ahara-nidra-bhaya-maithunam. Bird, beast, animal, fish— everywhere the same struggle. Where is food, where is sex, and where is shelter, and how to defend. So śāstra says these things we have done in many, many lives past, and if we don’t get out of this struggle for existence we’ll have to do it again in many, many lives. So these things should be stopped. So Prahlāda Mahārāja says therefore,

sukham aindriyakaṁ daityā deha-yogena dehinām sarvatra labhyate daivād yathā duḥkham ayatnatah

 

He’s advising that, “My dear friends, pleasure, material pleasure, on account of this material body, particular type of body…”: A dog, it has got a body, and I have got a body. So my sex pleasure and dog’s sex pleasure, there is no difference. the pleasure derived out of sex pleasure is the same. But a dog is not afraid of having sex pleasure on the street before everyone. We hide it. That’s all. In a nice apartment. But the business is the same. There is no difference. But they are taking this sex pleasure in a nice apartment and very decorated, man and woman, and electric light and so on, so on. This pleasure is advanced. But that is not advanced. And they are making dog’s race for this advancement. Superficial. The Prahlāda Mahārāja says that this is a question of different types of pleasure on account of different types of body, but the pleasure is the same. But according to the different types of body the pleasure is already fixed up. That is called destiny. A pig has got a certain type of body and his eatable is the stool. It is already fixed up. You cannot change it, that “Let the pig eat halavā.” It is not possible. Because he has got a particular type of body, he must eat that. Can anyone, any scientist can improve the standard of living of a pig? Is it possible?

Devotees: (laughing) No."

 

 

 

Answers to a Questionnaire

from Bhavan’s Journal

by His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda

June 28, 1976, Vṛndāvana

[LoveroftheBhagavata]

Je suis absolument d'accord avec toi Shvu, sur ce point-ci du moins, mais le reste d'entre eux n'ont vraiment aucune idee de ce que tu as ecris sur ce theme precis. Et connaissant leur position tellement rigide sur cette chose floue qu'ils appellent (naivement dirais-je) Sanatana Dharma, il est peu probable que tu ais une chance, aussi minime soit-elle, de les convaincre. Cela n'en vaut pas la peine franchement.

[theist]

 

If you are really advanced, you may engage in sanatana dharma while practicing your chosen religion such as Gaudiya Vaishanvism, Sri Vaishnavism, or even Shivaism.

 

Do you see my point? Iskcon is a religious organization where people may one day ascend to the platform of sanatana dharma, but the movement itself is a religion.

 

I see your point but I disagree with it.

 

I have said present day Iskcon is a religion with their eeclesiastical system etc. But I disgree that that is what Prabhupada taught. He taught a pure relationship with the Supreme Being as servant. That is the definition of eternal dharma.

 

We will always have the choice to see the basic tenets of vaisnavism (prayer, chanting the name, serving, remembering etc.) as a religion or relationship. I choose relationship because I see these processes as the eternal function of the soul which has no history in time or place of origin in space which are both definitons of religion or "faith".

[tackleberry]

I don't know why people are infatuated with the term 'sanatana dharma.' According to veda, entities like KAla, AkASa, and SabdA are also eternal. According to some acharyas, evil is eternal. False religion is eternal. Which means, eternity has nothing to do with truth. Truth may be eternal or nitya, but that doesn't mean all nitya vastu-s are truth.

[Kulapavana]

 

Hopefully there're enough days till this goal will be reached.

 

 

I pray for that every day, that it becomes like that in my case.

[theist]

 

I don't know why people are infatuated with the term 'sanatana dharma.' According to veda, entities like KAla, AkASa, and SabdA are also eternal. According to some acharyas, evil is eternal. False religion is eternal. Which means, eternity has nothing to do with truth. Truth may be eternal or nitya, but that doesn't mean all nitya vastu-s are truth.

 

Everything is eternal in the sense that everything is a potency of Krsna and He is eternal. But you are mixing the meaning of what is being said. Krsna can manifest His potencies and he can also withdraw them into himself which he periodically does. In this way matter is also eternal.

 

You are trying to confuse the issue because you don't like the truth of the definition.

 

Prabhupada's illumination on the term sanatana dharma stands. Furthermore it is on this platform that Lord Caitanya's transcendental movement takes place. It is also this same transcendental movement that Prabhupada brought to the west.

[sanatan]

Re: sanatan dharma, shvu's comments

 

All forms of language are in a continual state of transition and change.

 

If this term is indeed a relatively recent addition to the spiritual lexicon, that doesn't detract from the meaning.

 

It's not a matter of "Prabhupada said it, therefore it's absolute"...more like Prabhupada was highly influential in introducing this term and the meaning into Western language.

 

He could just as easily have used another word or phrase.

[tackleberry]

 

Everything is eternal in the sense that everything is a potency of Krsna and He is eternal. But you are mixing the meaning of what is being said. Krsna can manifest His potencies and he can also withdraw them into himself which he periodically does. In this way matter is also eternal.

 

You are trying to confuse the issue because you don't like the truth of the definition.

 

Prabhupada's illumination on the term sanatana dharma stands. Furthermore it is on this platform that Lord Caitanya's transcendental movement takes place. It is also this same transcendental movement that Prabhupada brought to the west.

 

By your own admission, everything is eternal. And because everything is eternal, don't you think it peculiar to restrict Sanatana Dharma to Chaitanya's movement to the exclusion of every other religion?

[cbrahma]

 

By your own admission, everything is eternal. And because everything is eternal, don't you think it peculiar to restrict Sanatana Dharma to Chaitanya's movement to the exclusion of every other religion?

Your inability to grasp a simple logical point is phenomenal. You persist in claiming sanatana dharma is a religion. The whole point is that it cannot be

reduced to this or that sect, but includes all bona fide religions who have sanatana dharma as their essence.