What is a Vaisnava

[cbrahma]

Though technically a Vaisnava is a worshipper of Visnu, one can engage in the action without the realization or the qualities. So one can be a professed Vaisnava by appearing to worship Visnu, but unless Vaisnava qualities are manifest can that worshipper truly be called a Vaisnava?

 

The Caitanya caritamrta distinguishes far more than that dictionary definition.

 

 

1. Krpalu
   • Merciful (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80)
     
   • Kind to everyone (Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.18.12 purport)
     
   • Unable to tolerate the suffering of others (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)

    

   [*]Akrta-droha

    

   • Not defiant (Sri Caitanya-caritamrtaMadhya 22.80)
     
   • Humble (Sri Caitanya-caritamrtaMadhya 22.80)
     
   • Does not make anyone an enemy (Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.18.12 purport)
     
   • Does not quarrel with anyone (Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.15.25 purport)
     
   • Peaceful (Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.3.13 purport)
     
   • Never injuring others (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)

    

   [*]Satya-sara

    

   • Truthful (Sri Caitanya-caritamrtaMadhya 22.80)
     
   • Accepts Krishna consciousness as the highest goal in life (Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.15.25 purport)
     
   • Fixed in the Absolute Truth (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.20.16 purport)
     
   • Lives by truth and gains strength and firmness from truthfulness (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)
     
   • Attaining strength and meaning in life from the truth itself (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)

    

   [*]Sama

    

   • Equal to all (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80)
     
   • Equable
     
   • Equal in both happiness and in distress (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)
     
   • Mental equilibrium

    

   [*]Nirdosa

    

   • Faultless (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80) (Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.15.25 purport)

    

   [*]Vadanya

    

   • Magnanimous (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80)
     
   • Charitable (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.20.16 purport)

    

   [*]Mrdu

    

   • Mild (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80)
     
   • Without harsh mentality (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)
     
   • Always pleasing behavior, never harsh (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)

    

   [*]Suci

    

   • Clean (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80) (internally and externally) (Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.15.25 purport)

    

   [*]Akincana

    

   • Without material possessions (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80)
     
   • Never professing to possess anything in this material world (Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.15.25 purport)
     
   • Simple (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.20.16 purport)
     
   • Nonpossessive (Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.3.13 purport)

    

   [*]Sarva-upakaraka

    

   • Working for the welfare of everyone (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80)
     
   • Works for everyone's benefit. (Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.18.12 purport)
     
   • A benefactor to all living entities; (Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.15.25 purport)
     
   • Benevolent (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.20.16 purport)
     
   • A well-wisher to all (Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.3.13 purport)
     
   • Always endeavoring as far as possible for the welfare of all others (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)
     
   • Dedicates his time to work for the welfare of all others (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)

    

   [*]Santa

    

   • Peaceful (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80)
     
   • Satisfied (Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.3.13 purport)
     
   • Controlling the mind (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)

    

   [*]Krsna-eka-sarana

    

   • Exclusively surrendered to Krishna (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80)
     
   • Always surrendered to Krishna (Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.18.12 purport)
     
   • Completely attached to Krishna (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.20.16 purport)
     
   • Accepting Me as the only shelter (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)

    

   [*]Akama

    

   • Desireless (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80)
     
   • Without material desires (Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.18.12 purport)
     
   • Free from material hankering (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.20.16 purport)

    

   [*]Aniha

    

   • Indifferent to material acquisitions (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80)
     
   • Meek (Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.18.12 purport)
     
   • Humble (Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.15.25 purport)Simple (Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.3.13 purport)
     
   • Free from worldly activities (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)
     
   • Never endeavouring in ordinary, worldly activities (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)

    

   [*]Sthira

    

   • Fixed in devotional service (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80)
     
   • Steady (Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.18.12 purport)
     
   • Remaining steady in one's prescribed duty (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)

    

   [*]Vijita-sat-guna

    

   • Completely controlling the six bad qualities (lust, anger, greed, etc.) (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80)
     
   • Controls his senses (Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.18.12 purport)
     
   • Has conquered the sensual activities (Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.15.25 purport)
     
   • Self-controlled (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.20.16 purport)
     
   • Having conquered the six material qualities, namely hunger, thirst, lamentation, illusion, old age and death (Jita-sad-guna) (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)

    

   [*]Mita-bhuk

    

   • Eating only as much as required… (Madhya 22.80) to maintain body and soul together (Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.15.25 purport)
     
   • A balanced eater (Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.3.13 purport)
     
   • Eating austerely (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)
     
   • Strictly controls his eating (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)

    

   [*]Apramatta

    

   • Without inebriation (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80)
     
   • Not influenced by the Lord's illusory energy (Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.18.12 purport)
     
   • Never mad after material identity (Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.15.25 purport)
     
   • Sane (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.20.16 purport)
     
   • Cautious and sober (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)

    

   [*]Mana-da

    

   • Respectful (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80)
     
   • Offers respect to everyone (Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.18.12 purport)
     
   • Mannerly (Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.3.13 purport)
     
   • Offers honour to others (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)

    

   [*]Amani

    

   • Without false prestige (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80)
     
   • Not desiring respect for oneself (Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.18.12 purport)
     
   • Humble (Srimad-Bhagavatam 4.20.16 purport)
     
   • Prideless (Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.3.13 purport)
     
   • Without desire for prestige

    

   [*]Gambhira

    

   • Grave (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80)

    

   [*]Karuna

    

   • Compassionate (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80)
     
   • Merciful (Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.18.12 purport)
     
   • Sympathetic (Srimad-Bhagavatam 2.3.13 purport)
     
   • Acting always due to compassion, not personal ambition (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)

    

   [*]Maitra

    

   • Friendly (Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.18.12 purport)
     
   • Never cheating anyone, and thus a true friend (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)

    

   [*]Kavi

    

   • Poetic (Srimad-Bhagavatam 5.18.12 purport)
     
   • Learned (Srimad-Bhagavatam 11.11.29-32 purport)

    

   [*]Daksa

    

   • Expert... (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80) in all activities (Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.15.25 purport)

    

   [*]Mauni

    

   • Silent… (Sri Caitanya-caritamrta Madhya 22.80) in nonsense (Srimad-Bhagavatam 3.15.25 purport)

    

    

[tackleberry]

I think you're confused. A vaishnava is one who worships Vishnu, period. No compromise there. And such vaishnavas need to cultivate these qualities. These qualities are desirable, but even without these, they'll still be vaishnavas, because the basic condition is fulfilled, which is Vishnu worship. OTOH, to define a vaishnava by these qualities without paying attention to Vishnu worship would be disastrous.

[raghu]

Why is it that when a scriptural definition that explicitly says, "This is a Vaishnava," is offered, it is ignored and something totally irrelevant is brought up in its place?

 

We already quoted the definition of Vaishnava by Sanatana Gosvami. Did I miss some rationale as to why we are now ignoring Sanatana Gosvami? Is it just the same old iskcon "pick and choose what supports my opinion and ignore the rest" all over again?

[Shakti-Fan]

[question:] Some people say one has to be free from anarthas for this type of greed to come.

[srila Narayana Maharaja:] This is apa-siddhanta. This is not written anywhere in Sri Caitanya-caritamrta or in the books of Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura. A person may be more wretched than Bilvamangala, Jagai and Madhai and others. First bhakti will come, and then all offences will disappear. These are the rules and regulations of bhakti. It is not correct to think that we have to give up these anarthas before bhakti manifests. Bhakti can come at any stage. Srimad Bhagavatam has explained this. Those who are animals, those who are ladies, those who are males, those who have sraddha, those who don’t, and those who have nistha, ruci and asakti. Wherever they are, they should begin bhakti.

Bhakti is not an impersonal thing. She is a person. As Sri Krsna has a personal form and a personality, bhakti has also. The root personality of bhakti is Srimati Radhika – hladini sakti. So we bow down to Bhakti devi and pray that she may enter our hearts. When she comes she will clean our hearts and arrange a place for Radha and Krsna. First let bhakti come into our hearts, and then all evil and bad things will disappear. This is the process.

[Gaea]

 

[question:] Some people say one has to be free from anarthas for this type of greed to come.

[srila Narayana Maharaja:] This is apa-siddhanta. This is not written anywhere in Sri Caitanya-caritamrta or in the books of Srila Rupa Gosvami and Srila Visvanatha Cakravarti Thakura. A person may be more wretched than Bilvamangala, Jagai and Madhai and others. First bhakti will come, and then all offences will disappear. These are the rules and regulations of bhakti. It is not correct to think that we have to give up these anarthas before bhakti manifests. Bhakti can come at any stage. Srimad Bhagavatam has explained this. Those who are animals, those who are ladies, those who are males, those who have sraddha, those who don’t, and those who have nistha, ruci and asakti. Wherever they are, they should begin bhakti.

Bhakti is not an impersonal thing. She is a person. As Sri Krsna has a personal form and a personality, bhakti has also. The root personality of bhakti is Srimati Radhika – hladini sakti. So we bow down to Bhakti devi and pray that she may enter our hearts. When she comes she will clean our hearts and arrange a place for Radha and Krsna. First let bhakti come into our hearts, and then all evil and bad things will disappear. This is the process.

 

Srila Narayana Maharaja is amazing at explaining things like this! So much depth

[Kulapavana]

<CENTER>grhitaivisnudiksako visnu-pujaparo narah</CENTER><CENTER></CENTER><CENTER>vaisnavo 'bhihito 'bhijnairitaro 'smadavaisnavah </CENTER><CENTER></CENTER><CENTER></CENTER><CENTER></CENTER><CENTER></CENTER>

"One who is initiated into the Vaishnava mantra and who is devoted to worshipping Lord Vishnu is a Vaishnava. One who is devoid of these practices is not a Vaishnava." (quote from Hari-bhakti-vilas,11, quoted from Padma Purana)

[cbrahma]

 

I think you're confused. A vaishnava is one who worships Vishnu, period. No compromise there. And such vaishnavas need to cultivate these qualities. These qualities are desirable, but even without these, they'll still be vaishnavas, because the basic condition is fulfilled, which is Vishnu worship. OTOH, to define a vaishnava by these qualities without paying attention to Vishnu worship would be disastrous.

Yah me and Lord Caitanya.

[raghu]

 

Yah me and Lord Caitanya.

 

Wow, that's deep.

[theist]

 

TRANSLATION CC Madhya 15.106

Sri Caitanya Mahaprabhu replied, “Whoever chants the holy name of Krishna just once is worshipable and is the topmost human being.

 

PURPORT

Srila Bhaktisiddhanta Sarasvati Thakura says that a person who simply chants the holy name of Krishna once becomes perfect and should be regarded as a Vaishnava. This is confirmed by Srila Rupa Gosvami in his Upadesamrita (5): krishneti yasya giri tam manasadriyeta. With such faith in the holy name one may begin a life of Krishna consciousness. But an ordinary person cannot chant the holy name of Krishna with such faith. One should accept the holy name of Krishna to be identical with the Supreme Personality of Godhead, Transcendence Himself. As the Padma Purana states, “The holy name of Krishna is identical with Krishna and is like a cintamani gem, a touchstone. That name is Krishna personified in sound and is therefore perfectly transcendental and eternally liberated from material contamination.” Thus one should understand that the name “Krishna” and Krishna Himself are identical. Having such faith, one must continue to chant the holy name.

[Malati dasi]

From theist's quote: Thus one should understand that the name “Krishna” and Krishna Himself are identical.

 

Thanks for the quote theist that's a great improvement on your part.

 

Not a RANDOM GOD.

[theist]

LOL And thank you for the backhanded compliment.

 

[cbrahma]

Theist got authentic Vaisnava approval.

It's time for a guru puja.

[AncientMariner]

I have chanted the Hare Krishna mantra at least once in my life and I am not perfect but I still view Jesus and his message as being worthwhile although the whole Jesus vs. Vaisnavism thing has really been so beaten to death that I have come to the conclusion that it probably is best just to leave Jesus out of Vaisnava conversations. No offense to Jesus but it is just creating too much animosity between perfectly respectable people. I hope noone objects if I leave my avatar as is. I am not trying to promote Christianity I just have always liked the story of the thiefs hanging on the cross with Jesus.

[theist]

 

I have chanted the Hare Krishna mantra at least once in my life and I am not perfect but I still view Jesus and his message as being worthwhile although the whole Jesus vs. Vaisnavism thing has really been so beaten to death that I have come to the conclusion that it probably is best just to leave Jesus out of Vaisnava conversations. No offense to Jesus but it is just creating too much animosity between perfectly respectable people. I hope noone objects if I leave my avatar as is. I am not trying to promote Christianity I just have always liked the story of the thiefs hanging on the cross with Jesus.

 

These are not Vaisnava conversations AM. It may best to not cast certain pearls before pigs but that is a different thing.

 

Hope no one objects? Who gives a damn.

[suchandra]

 

I think you're confused. A vaishnava is one who worships Vishnu, period. No compromise there. And such vaishnavas need to cultivate these qualities. These qualities are desirable, but even without these, they'll still be vaishnavas, because the basic condition is fulfilled, which is Vishnu worship. OTOH, to define a vaishnava by these qualities without paying attention to Vishnu worship would be disastrous.

 

Letter by Prabhupada to highlight that it is not so easy to become a Vaishnava.

 

Saturday, December 30, 1967

San Francisco, Calif.

My Dear Madhusudana,

Please accept my blessings. I am so happy to read your letter dated Dec. 28, 1967. And I am very concerned that due to your sincerity and service mood you have improved in Krishna Consciousness excellently. Whatever allocation of duty there may be, if we try to execute such specific duty sincerely, that alone can make us much more advanced in Krishna Consciousness.

In the Bhagavad-gita, it is stated that for the fixed up devotee there is one duty. This duty is understood through the transparent medium via media of the Spiritual Master. It is better service to Krishna and Spiritual Master in a feeling of separation; sometimes there is risk in the matter of direct service.

For example, Kirtanananda was giving me direct service by massaging, cooking for me, and so many other things; but later on by dictation of Maya, he became puffed up, so much so that he thought his Spiritual Master a common man, and was existing only on account of his service.

This mentality at once pushed him down. Of course, those who are sincere devotee, they take direct service as an opportunity, but the illusory energy is so strong that it acts on this doctrine of familiarity breeds contempt. Kirtanananda was thinking I was existing on his service, instead of realizing I was giving him opportunity to do me some service.

[Dark Warrior]

 

I have chanted the Hare Krishna mantra at least once in my life and I am not perfect but I still view Jesus and his message as being worthwhile although the whole Jesus vs. Vaisnavism thing has really been so beaten to death that I have come to the conclusion that it probably is best just to leave Jesus out of Vaisnava conversations. No offense to Jesus but it is just creating too much animosity between perfectly respectable people. I hope noone objects if I leave my avatar as is. I am not trying to promote Christianity I just have always liked the story of the thiefs hanging on the cross with Jesus.

 

No, you misunderstand. If anyone wants to believe that Jesus is linked to Vaishnavism, let him. Its his freedom. But, do not try to say that this is the most logical path, or that others are Pseudovaishnavas.

 

Since you like Metal, I'd like to tell you that the only thing bible is good for, is that it inspired the Power Metal band Running Wild to come up with the awesome song 'Genesis'. Terrific solos, great choruses...a 15 minute masterpiece.

 

Hellbound, poisoned souls, in pain they'll burn, no return

Mankind will never learn, their blinded pride, the evil side

 

The firestorm will rage on the day of the falling

Armaggeddon's near it's the end of the genesis

Dying by the flood, no way back, no recalling

The malice and the pride is the death and the fall of man.

 

[cbrahma]

 

No, you misunderstand. If anyone wants to believe that Jesus is linked to Vaishnavism, let him. Its his freedom. But, do not try to say that this is the most logical path, or that others are Pseudovaishnavas.

 

Since you like Metal, I'd like to tell you that the only thing bible is good for, is that it inspired the Power Metal band Running Wild to come up with the awesome song 'Genesis'. Terrific solos, great choruses...a 15 minute masterpiece.

 

Hellbound, poisoned souls, in pain they'll burn, no return

Mankind will never learn, their blinded pride, the evil side

 

The firestorm will rage on the day of the falling

Armaggeddon's near it's the end of the genesis

Dying by the flood, no way back, no recalling

The malice and the pride is the death and the fall of man.

 

There is no good reason why Jesus can't be linked to Vaisnava, since every bona fide religion can be so linked.

[guliaditya]

 

There is no good reason why Jesus can't be linked to Vaisnava, since every bona fide religion can be so linked.

 

 

Sir, can u tell me how every bona fide religion can be linked???

 

Pranaam

[Amlesh]

 

Sir, can u tell me how every bona fide religion can be linked???

 

Pranaam

 

You'll need to read the Gita really well. It's a really complex issue but for sure it does have the answer.

 

It's a very subtle issue, only a very humble and devoted soul can unlock this mystery.

 

Words from us will not help.

[Dark Warrior]

 

There is no good reason why Jesus can't be linked to Vaisnava, since every bona fide religion can be so linked.

 

This, coming from a person who thinks temple worship is an 'external symbol', and who hasn't even read the Ithihasas completely.

 

Christianity isn't 'bonafide'. We learn that Jainism, Buddhism, Advaita, etc. all existed even during the period of Lord Rama. Yet, they are not 'bonafide'. What makes you think that a silly cult who can't even decide on the identity of their deity, Jesus (God, Son of God, Prophet, Aeon, Angel, Buddhist Teacher, etc...according to various Christian sects) is bonafide?

 

Again, don't post the stupid 'I love you, you love me, we love everybody' quotes from the bible. For one thing, its pretty rudimentary stuff that is found even in nonvedic religions. For another thing, these sayings in Bible resemble the Dhammapada closely, thus leading to the hypothesis that Jesus picked up Buddhist ideals from missionaries and mixed it with Judaic beliefs.

 

 

You'll need to read the Gita really well. It's a really complex issue but for sure it does have the answer.

 

It's a very subtle issue, only a very humble and devoted soul can unlock this mystery.

 

I suppose the 'answer' is provided by neovedantins like Vivekananda?

 

I tell you, if these Hare Christnas want to worship Jesus so badly, they should convert to Advaita or other such philosophy. Its more suited to their beliefs. 'Every religion is bonafide' is a typical Vivekananda remark, not a Vaishnava belief.

 

Prasthna Trayam is very clear on this - morals, renunciation and devotion is absolutely useless without proper Jnana.

[Amlesh]

 

I suppose the 'answer' is provided by neovedantins like Vivekananda?

 

I tell you, if these Hare Christnas want to worship Jesus so badly, they should convert to Advaita or other such philosophy. Its more suited to their beliefs. 'Every religion is bonafide' is a typical Vivekananda remark, not a Vaishnava belief.

 

Prasthna Trayam is very clear on this - morals, renunciation and devotion is absolutely useless without proper Jnana.

 

No, you don't need to think like that, the answer was provided by the Speaker of the Gita only not From Swami Vivekananda.

[guliaditya]

 

You'll need to read the Gita really well. It's a really complex issue but for sure it does have the answer.

 

It's a very subtle issue, only a very humble and devoted soul can unlock this mystery.

 

Words from us will not help.

 

I am not clear from your reply.

Can u make me clear if u have read Gita really well.

 

I know only one thing i.e. Lord Narayana is supreme personality & he alone should be worshipped.One should worship with full faith & devotion.

This is the real crux. This is the conclusion of all the scriptures & acharyas.

 

Pranaam

[matarisvan]

 

No, you don't need to think like that, the answer was provided by the Speaker of the Gita only not From Swami Vivekananda.

 

Can you show me a Vaishnava commentator of the Gita (including Prabhupada) who allowed for Shaivas, Buddhists and Shaktas to be part of the Gita ruling that all paths lead to Krishna?

 

No one has. All Vaishnava groups rule out Advaita, Shaivism, Shaktism, Buddhism and Jainism as valid paths to Krishna. Why would Islam and Christianity be different? The only reason this discussion is dragging here is Theist and CBrahma are Christians and are too hot headed to accept the truth.

[Amlesh]

 

I am not clear from your reply.

Can u make me clear if u have read Gita really well.

 

I know only one thing i.e. Lord Narayana is supreme personality & he alone should be worshipped.One should worship with full faith & devotion.

This is the real crux. This is the conclusion of all the scriptures & acharyas.

 

Pranaam

 

Accepting Krishna to be the Supreme happens only when one is cleared of all doubts.

 

He himself said, "After knowing this, nothing is left to be known."

[Amlesh]

 

Can you show me a Vaishnava commentator of the Gita (including Prabhupada) who allowed for Shaivas, Buddhists and Shaktas to be part of the Gita ruling that all paths lead to Krishna?

 

No one has. All Vaishnava groups rule out Advaita, Shaivism, Shaktism, Buddhism and Jainism as valid paths to Krishna. Why would Islam and Christianity be different? The only reason this discussion is dragging here is Theist and CBrahma are Christians and are too hot headed to accept the truth.

 

Yes, SP only said, Krishna is the father of all religions.