Recognition Of Gay Unions In Austria

[bija]

Is Vraj and Radha dasyam attainable this life when we still have so many desires?

 

Here is some thoughts (off topic a bit):

 

Lord Caitanya was a pure transcendentalist. He came down hard on his associates even if they would look at a woman. Chota Haridas killed himself after Lord Caitanya removed him from association for begging rice from an older woman.

 

Gaudiya Vaisnavism stemming from Srila Bhaktivinoda and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta spoke out strongly againts the Sahajiya Cults of Lord Caitanya, who mixed sex with practice. This Saraswati lineage supposedly brings back the purity of Sri Caitanya's teachings - pure transcendentalism.

 

In these teachings sex is considered a perveted reflection of the spiritual reality. Gita Govinda of Jayadeva and the writings of Vidyapati are not recommended reading, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta would not allow his followers to read these books. Jiva Goswami recommends not to go near the deeper teachings of the tradition if we still have sex desire.

 

So...what do we do? All sincere devotees want residence in Vraj Goloka oneday? I know I do! Is it attainable, this purity? I dont know if it can be attained this life for me...therefore Acarya's recommend deep regular Hari-Naam Sankirtana to purify the heart..then when purified of anarthas we may enter the service to Srimate Radharani. This is why Hari-Naam Sankirtana is stressed so much.

 

(by the way Gita Govinda is sung daily in front of Jagannatha in the temple in Puri - Lord Caitanya possibly heard this sung there)

 

Is it possible that Vraj will not be attained as long as we are having un-regulated sex? Or is mercy the key? I don't know.

 

The below article is super-duper regulated.

 

 

 

GARBHADHANAM

Importance of Garbhadhana Samskara

The Sacred Process of Child Birth

Unknown Author (Not fully verified authenticity but useful article)

If one is not purified by the process of the seed giving ceremony, or garbhadhana samskara he is immediately classified amongst the sudras because

only the sudras do not undergo this purificatory process.

Krsna book, IIp.236

The pious seminal succession in the twice born families of the brahmanas and ksatriyas especially, as well as in the families of vaisyas also, must be kept very pure by the observation of the purificatory process (samksaras) beginning with garbhadhana samskara, which is observed before conceiving a child. Unless this purificatory process is strictly observed, especially by the brahmanas, the family descendents become impure, and gradually sinf

SB 4.14.42, purport

It is to be concluded that while conceiving a child one's mind must be very sober and devotional. For this purpose the garbhadhana samskara is

recommended in the Vedic scriptures.

SB

Date:

After the marriage the newly wedded couple should observe brahmacarya for three days, sleeping on the earth. On the fourth day, the couple go to the husband's house and caturthi homa is performed. After this, during the day time, the preliminaries f or the first garbhadhana samskara may be performed, taking into consideration the suitable and forbidden times. It may also be performed after six or twelve nights, or after one year. The rules for time and the samskara should be observed thereaf ter whenever the desire for sex and children arises. To say the least, each sex act must be carefully planned in advance, by use of intelligence, using the scriptural injunctions, and not determined by lust alone.

..Before engaging in sexual intercourse, both the husband and the wife must consider their mental condition, the particular time, the husband's direction and obedience to the demigods.

SB 3.14.38, purport Forbidden Hours:

The union of man and wife should take place neither during the day nor during the sandhyas (daybreak and twilight). Daytime is of course the time when man should carry out his duties: waking bathing, meditating, worshipping the Supreme Lord, studying scripture, chanting japa, serving the deity, carrying out household duties, welcoming guests etc. Sandhyas should only be utilized for chanting gayatri mantra and meditating on the Lord. As well, Prasnopanisad says that a man reduces his life span by having sexual relations during the day. One who performs during the night is considered to be brahmacari (ie he maitains his strength).

pranam va ete skandanti ye diva ratya samyujyante

brahmacaryam eva tad ya ratrau ratya samyujyante

Prasnopanisad 1.13

According to Asvalayana Smrti from the end of the evening sandhya up until midnight is allowed: upeyan madhyaratrante

Exception to this is when the wife is extremely lusty. To prevent her from going elsewhere for satisfaction the husband should concede to her demands, though not according the scriptural recommendations of proper time.

Forbidden Days:

Numbering the nights from the start of the menses of the woman, then at least the first four nights are forbidden for sexual activity. Kalaprakasika, states that the first day is fatal for the husband,the second day is fatal forthe wife, thethird day causes abortion and the fourth day impairs the power of the father and produces a short lived son bereft of good habits.

Srila Prabhupad gives a slightly longer period. The recommended period is six days after the mensturation period.

letter from Srila Prabhupada,

Shama dasi, Jan.18, 1969

The eleventh and thirteenth nights are also forbidden, as the offspring produced are of bad quality. The remaining ten days are permitted, and the later nights are favored. Even numbered nights favor male children, and uneven numbers favor female children. Sexual union after the sixteenth night is also forbidden. In the sequence below the starred days starting from 1

(beginning of menses) are forbidden for sexual intercourse.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2223

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

24 25 26 27

* * * *

The remaining ten days (5-10, 12, 14-16) are suitable provided they do not fall on those lunar tithis which are forbidden.)

Forbidden Lunar Tithis:

Sexual union must also be avoided on days of vrata and fasting, such as ekadasi, and on the parva days (full moon, dark moon, astami and caturdasi tithis, as well as sankranti, when the sun passes into a new zodiac sign) when the body is in weak con dition, and the days when the moon passes throught the same naksatra as at ones birth.

Forbidden Week days:

Saturday, Tuesday and Sunday should be avoided being ruled by malefic planets,saturn, Mars and Sun.

Forbidden Naksatra: contact should be avoided when the moon is in the following constellations: bharani, krttika, ardra, aslesa, magha, purvaphalguni, visakha, jyestha, purvasada, purvabhadra

Rising Sign or Ascendent: best signs are taurus, gemini, cancer leo, virgo, libra and pisces according to Kala Prakasika.

Proper Planetary Combinations:

In addition to the above strictures the man and woman who desire proper, harmonious, sexual relations between themselves, and desire healthy, intelligent, spiritual children, should with knowledge choose an auspicious day, hour and moment for the ir union. Malefic planets (saturn, mars, sun)

should not afflict the ascendent, kendras, or trikona, by occupation or aspect, and benefics, particularly jupiter should be strongly situated in rasi and navamsa charts. Kala Prakasika says it is better if the ascendent and eighth house are free of planets. If the above are considered when choosing a proper time pleasant union and good offspring are assured.

Other Forbidden Times:

As soon as the wife is pregnant, no more sex life until the child is born and is grown up at least for six months. After that one may have sex life on the same principle. If one does not want more than one or two children, he should voluntarily stop sex life. One should not use any contraceptive method and at the same time indulge in sex life. That is very much sinful.

letter from Srila Prabhupada,

San Fransisco, Sept 20, 1968

Semen is meant to be discharged when one has a home, a wife and the intention to beget children, otherwise there is no injunction for discharging semen.

SB 4.8.1 purport

Contraception Forbidden:

According to the Vedic scriptures the contraceptive method should be restraint in sex life. It is not that one should indulge in unrestricted sex life and avoid children by using some method to check pregnancy. If a man is is in good consciousness, he consults with his religious wife, and as a result of this consultation with intelligence, one advances in his ability to estimate the value of life.

SB 4.27.6 purport

Sex Once a Month:

Amongst the permissable days during one month for sexual union, only one day can be chosen for the act. If the couple are desirous of having children, the husband is encouraged to approach his wife once every month, provided the times are auspicious, until preganancy occurs. Then he should stop.

According to religious injunctions a man is restricted to enjoy sex only once in a month, after the menstrual period of the wife, and if the wife is pregnant, he is not allowed sex life at all. That is the law for human beings.

Sb. 4.27. 5 purport

Illicit sex:

If the husband and wife do not follow the above rules, then, even though married their relations are considered illicit.

These laws and srciptures are meant for human beings. As such if one violates these laws, he becomes sinful. The conclusion is that unrestricted sense enjoyment means sinful activities. Illict sex is sex that violates the laws given in the scriptu res. When one violates the laws of the scriptures, or the Vedas, he commits sinful activities. One who is engaged in sinful activities cannot change his consciousness. Our real function is to change our consciousness from kasmala , sinful consciousn ess, to Krsna, the supreme pure.

SB 4.27.5 purport

Partner:

The husband must satisfy himself only with his wife, with no one else or by any other means. The husband who thinks of anyone other than his wife reduces his life span and receives birth in a body without bones, trapped in the womb and bitten by insects.

Place:

The husband should approach his wife in his own house, in a clean room, on a clean, wide, unbroken bed; not in a temple, a guru or teacher's or vaisnava's house, not under a holy tree, not at a tirtha, a gosala, a crematorium, in the forest, or in the water.

Condition of Body and Mind:

The husband should be free from the influence of intoxicants, should be bathed, nicely scented, garlanded, healthy, free from anxieties, and both affectionate or considerate, and passionate.

The wife should be bathed, free from anger, in good spirits, in good health, neither underfed or overfed and desirous of her husband. She should have no longing for, sexual relation with anyone else. She should not be pregnant, nor should she have recently borne a child.

Permission of Guru:

Grhasthas should indulge in sex life only in accordance with the order of the guru.

SB7.12.11, purport

Age:

Susruta, the famous ayurvedic writer says that woman matures when she is sixteen and a man when he is twenty five. Sexual union when either partner is not mature will lead to unhealthy children. He recommends that the woman should be at least sixtee n and the man at least twenty five, but prefers that they should be older in order to bear good children.

The above strictures, which limit sexual intercourse to once a month, and only on certain days when the woman is fertile and the man and woman are in proper physical condition, are the condition for sex according to nature's laws. However, in add ition, and just as important , is the the rite of

purification which accompanies the act. If this is not performed, then even restricted sex activity is in vain, for the consciousness of the man and woman will be motivated solely by raja and tama g una. This will only lead to greater addiction for sex and children with no spiritual assets.

At minimum the following procedure must be done if the sex act of husband and wife is to be called garbhadhana samskara. If it is not, the act is not

befitting a civilized human being. It is kama which is dharma aviruddha: lust according to irrelig ious principles, ie demoniac. According to Vedic culture, sex is enjoyed under Vedic instructions. Thus the Vedas give direction to civilized human beings to enable them to satisfy their propensities for sense gratification.

SB 4.25.39 purport

*************************************************************

Ceremony as Directed by Srila Prabhupad:

Our grhasthas should simply chant 50 rounds before conceiving a child.

letter from Tamal Krishna to

Madhusudana May 19, 1976

on behalf of Srila Prabhupada

*************************************************************

Vaidic Procedure:

In the evening (or some auspicious moment of the day), in a clean room, the husband should offer worship salagrama or the deity of the house. If there is not an installed deity in the house which is offered daily worship, then before the arghya is offered, a deity should be temporarily called either into a murti, picture or pot according to puja vidhi and worshipped accordingly. Nandisr addha, including worship of visvaksena and the 16 matrgana, may also be performed before the worship of visnu.

VISNU PUJA AND SATTVIKA VRDDHI SRADDHA

One should start by performing acamana, svasta vacana, sankalpa, guru visnu puja.

om svasti no govindah svasti no' cyutanantau

svasti no vasudevo visnur dadhatu

svasti no narayano naro vai

svasti nah padmanabhah purusottamo dadhatu

svasti no visvakseno visvesvarah

svasti no hrsikeso harir dadhatu

svasti no vainateyo harih

svasti no'njanasuto hanur bhagavato dadhatu

svasti svasti sumangalikeso

mahan sri krsna saccid ananda ghanah

sarvesvaresvaro dadhatu

.....mase

.....rtau

.....pakse

.....tithau

.....naksatra samyutayam

.......rasi stithe bhaskaresri krsna prityartham

garbhadana samskarartham

sri visnu puja purvaka arghya danam

aham karisye

One should establish a ghata if there is no salagrama or deity in the house, and invoke visnu.

One should worship guru and then visnu with sixteen upacaras.

One may then worship as follows.

Panca Bhagavata Puja:

ete gandha puspe ..........

om visvaksenaya namah

om sanakaya namah

om sanatanaya namah

om sanandaya namah

om sanat kumaraya namah

Nava Yogendra Puja:

om kavaye namah

om havaye namah

om antariksaya namah

om prabuddhaya namah

om pippalayanaya namah

om avirhotraya namah

om drumilaya namah

om camasaya namah

om karabhojanaya namah

Maha Bhagavata Puja:

om brahmane namah

om sukadevaya namah

om sadasivaya namah

om garudaya namah

om naradaya namah

om kapilaya namah

om balaye namah

om bhismaya namah

om prahladaya namah

om hanumate namah

om ambarisaya namah

om janakaya namah

om yama bhagavataya namah

om svayambhuvaya namah

om uddhavaya namah

om vyasaya namah

Visnu Sakti Puja:

om paurnamasyai namah

om laksmyai

om antarangayai

om yamunayai

om gopyai om vrndavatyai

om gayatryai

om tulasyai

om sarasvatyai

om prthvyai

om gave

om yasodayai

om devahutyai

om devakyai

om rohinyai

omsitayai

om draupayai

omkuntyai

omrukminyai

om satyabhamayai

om jambavatyai

om nagnajitayai

om laksanayai

om kalindyai

om bhadrayai

om mitravindayai

Then, in a conch or earthen vessel five times with the following mantras, he should offer arghya to visnu five times, using the following mantras.

(Arghya consists of pancamrta, pancagavya, water, milk, haritaki, gandha, betels, flowers, candana, tumeric, kumkuma, durba grass, tulasi, amlaki,

scents and other auspicious items. It may be offered over the Lord's head or to his hand.)

om jagannatha mahabaho

sarvopadrava nasana

nava puspotsave me'rghyam

grhana jagadisvara

etat arghyam om sri visnave namah (or mula mantra)

om narayana hare rama

govinda garuda dhvaja

navapuspotsve me'rghyam

grhana paramesvara

etat arghyam om sri visnave namah (or mula mantra)

om dinabandho krpa sindho

paramananda madhava

navapuspotsave me'rghyam

grhana madhusudana

etat arghyam om sri visnave namah (or mula mantra)

om visvatman visvabandho

visvesa visvalocana

navapuspotsave me'rghyam grhana syamasundara

etat arghyam om sri visnave namah (or mula mantra)

om cidananda hrsikesa

bhaktavasya janardana

navapuspotsave me'rghyam

grhana kamalapate

etat arghyam om sri visnave namah (or mula mantra)

(Oh supreme Lord, at this festive occasion with fresh flowers please accept the arghya offered by me.)

The husband facing east , should situate himself behind his seated wife. With his right hand reaching over her right shoulder he should touch her

yoni saying:

om visnuh yonim kalpayatu

acyuto rupani pimsatu

asincatu harih garbham

jagadiso dadhatu te

May visnu prepare the yoni; may acyuta fashion the forms; may hari carry out the fertilization; may jagadisa present the child to you.

om garbham dhehi garbhosasayin garbham te naranarayanau

adhattam puskara srajau

Garbhodasayi visnu please bestow the child; nara narayana, bedecked with lotus garlands, please give her the child.

Touching her navel he should say:

om dirghayusam krsna bhaktam

putram janaya suvrate

Oh virtuous wife, bear a long-living son, a devotee of Krsna.

Then they should unite.

Bathing After the Act:

As one has to take bath after using the toilet, so one has to wash himself with water after sexual intercourse, especially when at a forbidden time.

SB 3.14.38, purport

As with every vedic ritual, gifts should be distributed at the conclusion of the ceremony.

PUMSAVANA (rite for making a male child):

Time:

In the case of a first pregnancy this rite should be performed during the third month of pregnancy, and may be performed later for other pregnancies,

when the signs of pregnancy begin to show. Manu says that it should be performed when the foetus beg ins to move in the womb. Some commentators say the rite should be performed on the first pregnancy only, and not during the following pregnancies.

It should be performed when the moon is in a male constellation.

Procedure:

The woman should fast, bathe and put on a new cloth.

The husband having performed his morning duties (bathe, putting on new cloth, sandhya vandana), the husband should worship visnu and perform vrddhi sraddha (see marriage preliminaries).

He should then set up a yajna, performing kusandika rites, calling the fire named candra, and ending with virupaksa japa.

He should seat his wife to his own right side on the west side of the fire upon a kusa asana. They should both face east. Silently he should place ghee-soaked wood of one pradesa length into the fire.

Vyasta samasta mahavyahrti homa:

om bhuh svaha

om bhuvah svaha

om svah svaha

om bhur bhuvah svah svaha

The husband, standing behind his wife, should touch her right shoulder, then her navel, repeating the following mantra three times:

om pumamsau mahavisnu vasudevau

pumamsau acyutanantau ubhau

puman govindas ca visnus ca

puman garbhabas tavodare

The Supreme Lord, the supreme male, mahavisnu, vasudeva, acyuta, ananta, govinda and visnu, and the male child reside in your womb. He should then perform vyasta samasta mahavyahrti hom:

om bhuh svah

om bhuvah svah

om svah svaha

om bhur bhuvah svah svaha

He should then throw ghee-soaked wood of pradesa length into the fire silently.

He should then perform udicya karma, vaisnava homa etc. and give daksina to vaisnavas.

According to some texts the juice from crushed banyan leaf sprouts should be poured into her right nostril to give her strength at this time.

During the time of pregnancy she should avoid having sex, sleeping in the daytime, staying awake at night, exerting herself physically, riding in vehicles, taking purgatives, experiencing all types of mental strain, and eating spicy, salty, sour, or heavy foods.

[AncientMariner]

 

I just thought of something. Many of you object to homosexuality in that it doesn't produce children and just increases desire, but what do you think of infertile couples? And what about couples after the woman has gone through menopause? Should they not be able to express their love for each other either? radhey radhey108

 

Here is some thoughts:

 

Lord Caitanya was a pure transcendentalist. He came down hard on his associates even if they would look at a woman. Chota Haridas killed himself after Lord Caitanya removed him from association for having contact with an older woman.

 

Gaudiya Vaisnavism stemming from Srila Bhaktivinoda and Srila Bhaktisiddhanta spoke out strongly againts the Sahajiya Cults of Lord Caitanya, who mixed sex with practice. This Saraswati lineage supposedly brings back the purity of Sri Caitanya's teachings.

 

In these teachings sex is considered a perveted reflection of the spiritual reality. Gita Govinda of Jayadeva and the writings of Vidyapati are not recommended reading, Srila Bhaktisiddhanta would not allow his followers to read these books. Jiva Goswami recommends not to go near the deeper teachings of the tradition if we still have sex desire.

 

So...what do we do? All sincere devotees want residence in Vraj Goloka oneday?

 

(by the way Gita Govinda is sung daily in front of Jagannatha in the temple in Puri - Lord Caitanya possibly heard this sung there)

 

 

 

GARBHADHANAM

Importance of Garbhadhana Samskara

The Sacred Process of Child Birth

Unknown Author (Not fully verified authenticity but useful article)

If one is not purified by the process of the seed giving ceremony, or garbhadhana samskara he is immediately classified amongst the sudras because

only the sudras do not undergo this purificatory process.

Krsna book, IIp.236

The pious seminal succession in the twice born families of the brahmanas and ksatriyas especially, as well as in the families of vaisyas also, must be kept very pure by the observation of the purificatory process (samksaras) beginning with garbhadhana samskara, which is observed before conceiving a child. Unless this purificatory process is strictly observed, especially by the brahmanas, the family descendents become impure, and gradually sinf

SB 4.14.42, purport

It is to be concluded that while conceiving a child one's mind must be very sober and devotional. For this purpose the garbhadhana samskara is

recommended in the Vedic scriptures.

SB

Date:

After the marriage the newly wedded couple should observe brahmacarya for three days, sleeping on the earth. On the fourth day, the couple go to the husband's house and caturthi homa is performed. After this, during the day time, the preliminaries f or the first garbhadhana samskara may be performed, taking into consideration the suitable and forbidden times. It may also be performed after six or twelve nights, or after one year. The rules for time and the samskara should be observed thereaf ter whenever the desire for sex and children arises. To say the least, each sex act must be carefully planned in advance, by use of intelligence, using the scriptural injunctions, and not determined by lust alone.

..Before engaging in sexual intercourse, both the husband and the wife must consider their mental condition, the particular time, the husband's direction and obedience to the demigods.

SB 3.14.38, purport Forbidden Hours:

The union of man and wife should take place neither during the day nor during the sandhyas (daybreak and twilight). Daytime is of course the time when man should carry out his duties: waking bathing, meditating, worshipping the Supreme Lord, studying scripture, chanting japa, serving the deity, carrying out household duties, welcoming guests etc. Sandhyas should only be utilized for chanting gayatri mantra and meditating on the Lord. As well, Prasnopanisad says that a man reduces his life span by having sexual relations during the day. One who performs during the night is considered to be brahmacari (ie he maitains his strength).

pranam va ete skandanti ye diva ratya samyujyante

brahmacaryam eva tad ya ratrau ratya samyujyante

Prasnopanisad 1.13

According to Asvalayana Smrti from the end of the evening sandhya up until midnight is allowed: upeyan madhyaratrante

Exception to this is when the wife is extremely lusty. To prevent her from going elsewhere for satisfaction the husband should concede to her demands, though not according the scriptural recommendations of proper time.

Forbidden Days:

Numbering the nights from the start of the menses of the woman, then at least the first four nights are forbidden for sexual activity. Kalaprakasika, states that the first day is fatal for the husband,the second day is fatal forthe wife, thethird day causes abortion and the fourth day impairs the power of the father and produces a short lived son bereft of good habits.

Srila Prabhupad gives a slightly longer period. The recommended period is six days after the mensturation period.

letter from Srila Prabhupada,

Shama dasi, Jan.18, 1969

The eleventh and thirteenth nights are also forbidden, as the offspring produced are of bad quality. The remaining ten days are permitted, and the later nights are favored. Even numbered nights favor male children, and uneven numbers favor female children. Sexual union after the sixteenth night is also forbidden. In the sequence below the starred days starting from 1

(beginning of menses) are forbidden for sexual intercourse.

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 2223

* * * * * * * * * * * * *

24 25 26 27

* * * *

The remaining ten days (5-10, 12, 14-16) are suitable provided they do not fall on those lunar tithis which are forbidden.)

Forbidden Lunar Tithis:

Sexual union must also be avoided on days of vrata and fasting, such as ekadasi, and on the parva days (full moon, dark moon, astami and caturdasi tithis, as well as sankranti, when the sun passes into a new zodiac sign) when the body is in weak con dition, and the days when the moon passes throught the same naksatra as at ones birth.

Forbidden Week days:

Saturday, Tuesday and Sunday should be avoided being ruled by malefic planets,saturn, Mars and Sun.

Forbidden Naksatra: contact should be avoided when the moon is in the following constellations: bharani, krttika, ardra, aslesa, magha, purvaphalguni, visakha, jyestha, purvasada, purvabhadra

Rising Sign or Ascendent: best signs are taurus, gemini, cancer leo, virgo, libra and pisces according to Kala Prakasika.

Proper Planetary Combinations:

In addition to the above strictures the man and woman who desire proper, harmonious, sexual relations between themselves, and desire healthy, intelligent, spiritual children, should with knowledge choose an auspicious day, hour and moment for the ir union. Malefic planets (saturn, mars, sun)

should not afflict the ascendent, kendras, or trikona, by occupation or aspect, and benefics, particularly jupiter should be strongly situated in rasi and navamsa charts. Kala Prakasika says it is better if the ascendent and eighth house are free of planets. If the above are considered when choosing a proper time pleasant union and good offspring are assured.

Other Forbidden Times:

As soon as the wife is pregnant, no more sex life until the child is born and is grown up at least for six months. After that one may have sex life on the same principle. If one does not want more than one or two children, he should voluntarily stop sex life. One should not use any contraceptive method and at the same time indulge in sex life. That is very much sinful.

letter from Srila Prabhupada,

San Fransisco, Sept 20, 1968

Semen is meant to be discharged when one has a home, a wife and the intention to beget children, otherwise there is no injunction for discharging semen.

SB 4.8.1 purport

Contraception Forbidden:

According to the Vedic scriptures the contraceptive method should be restraint in sex life. It is not that one should indulge in unrestricted sex life and avoid children by using some method to check pregnancy. If a man is is in good consciousness, he consults with his religious wife, and as a result of this consultation with intelligence, one advances in his ability to estimate the value of life.

SB 4.27.6 purport

Sex Once a Month:

Amongst the permissable days during one month for sexual union, only one day can be chosen for the act. If the couple are desirous of having children, the husband is encouraged to approach his wife once every month, provided the times are auspicious, until preganancy occurs. Then he should stop.

According to religious injunctions a man is restricted to enjoy sex only once in a month, after the menstrual period of the wife, and if the wife is pregnant, he is not allowed sex life at all. That is the law for human beings.

Sb. 4.27. 5 purport

Illicit sex:

If the husband and wife do not follow the above rules, then, even though married their relations are considered illicit.

These laws and srciptures are meant for human beings. As such if one violates these laws, he becomes sinful. The conclusion is that unrestricted sense enjoyment means sinful activities. Illict sex is sex that violates the laws given in the scriptu res. When one violates the laws of the scriptures, or the Vedas, he commits sinful activities. One who is engaged in sinful activities cannot change his consciousness. Our real function is to change our consciousness from kasmala , sinful consciousn ess, to Krsna, the supreme pure.

SB 4.27.5 purport

Partner:

The husband must satisfy himself only with his wife, with no one else or by any other means. The husband who thinks of anyone other than his wife reduces his life span and receives birth in a body without bones, trapped in the womb and bitten by insects.

Place:

The husband should approach his wife in his own house, in a clean room, on a clean, wide, unbroken bed; not in a temple, a guru or teacher's or vaisnava's house, not under a holy tree, not at a tirtha, a gosala, a crematorium, in the forest, or in the water.

Condition of Body and Mind:

The husband should be free from the influence of intoxicants, should be bathed, nicely scented, garlanded, healthy, free from anxieties, and both affectionate or considerate, and passionate.

The wife should be bathed, free from anger, in good spirits, in good health, neither underfed or overfed and desirous of her husband. She should have no longing for, sexual relation with anyone else. She should not be pregnant, nor should she have recently borne a child.

Permission of Guru:

Grhasthas should indulge in sex life only in accordance with the order of the guru.

SB7.12.11, purport

Age:

Susruta, the famous ayurvedic writer says that woman matures when she is sixteen and a man when he is twenty five. Sexual union when either partner is not mature will lead to unhealthy children. He recommends that the woman should be at least sixtee n and the man at least twenty five, but prefers that they should be older in order to bear good children.

The above strictures, which limit sexual intercourse to once a month, and only on certain days when the woman is fertile and the man and woman are in proper physical condition, are the condition for sex according to nature's laws. However, in add ition, and just as important , is the the rite of

purification which accompanies the act. If this is not performed, then even restricted sex activity is in vain, for the consciousness of the man and woman will be motivated solely by raja and tama g una. This will only lead to greater addiction for sex and children with no spiritual assets.

At minimum the following procedure must be done if the sex act of husband and wife is to be called garbhadhana samskara. If it is not, the act is not

befitting a civilized human being. It is kama which is dharma aviruddha: lust according to irrelig ious principles, ie demoniac. According to Vedic culture, sex is enjoyed under Vedic instructions. Thus the Vedas give direction to civilized human beings to enable them to satisfy their propensities for sense gratification.

SB 4.25.39 purport

*************************************************************

Ceremony as Directed by Srila Prabhupad:

Our grhasthas should simply chant 50 rounds before conceiving a child.

letter from Tamal Krishna to

Madhusudana May 19, 1976

on behalf of Srila Prabhupada

*************************************************************

Vaidic Procedure:

In the evening (or some auspicious moment of the day), in a clean room, the husband should offer worship salagrama or the deity of the house. If there is not an installed deity in the house which is offered daily worship, then before the arghya is offered, a deity should be temporarily called either into a murti, picture or pot according to puja vidhi and worshipped accordingly. Nandisr addha, including worship of visvaksena and the 16 matrgana, may also be performed before the worship of visnu.

VISNU PUJA AND SATTVIKA VRDDHI SRADDHA

One should start by performing acamana, svasta vacana, sankalpa, guru visnu puja.

om svasti no govindah svasti no' cyutanantau

svasti no vasudevo visnur dadhatu

svasti no narayano naro vai

svasti nah padmanabhah purusottamo dadhatu

svasti no visvakseno visvesvarah

svasti no hrsikeso harir dadhatu

svasti no vainateyo harih

svasti no'njanasuto hanur bhagavato dadhatu

svasti svasti sumangalikeso

mahan sri krsna saccid ananda ghanah

sarvesvaresvaro dadhatu

.....mase

.....rtau

.....pakse

.....tithau

.....naksatra samyutayam

.......rasi stithe bhaskaresri krsna prityartham

garbhadana samskarartham

sri visnu puja purvaka arghya danam

aham karisye

One should establish a ghata if there is no salagrama or deity in the house, and invoke visnu.

One should worship guru and then visnu with sixteen upacaras.

One may then worship as follows.

Panca Bhagavata Puja:

ete gandha puspe ..........

om visvaksenaya namah

om sanakaya namah

om sanatanaya namah

om sanandaya namah

om sanat kumaraya namah

Nava Yogendra Puja:

om kavaye namah

om havaye namah

om antariksaya namah

om prabuddhaya namah

om pippalayanaya namah

om avirhotraya namah

om drumilaya namah

om camasaya namah

om karabhojanaya namah

Maha Bhagavata Puja:

om brahmane namah

om sukadevaya namah

om sadasivaya namah

om garudaya namah

om naradaya namah

om kapilaya namah

om balaye namah

om bhismaya namah

om prahladaya namah

om hanumate namah

om ambarisaya namah

om janakaya namah

om yama bhagavataya namah

om svayambhuvaya namah

om uddhavaya namah

om vyasaya namah

Visnu Sakti Puja:

om paurnamasyai namah

om laksmyai

om antarangayai

om yamunayai

om gopyai om vrndavatyai

om gayatryai

om tulasyai

om sarasvatyai

om prthvyai

om gave

om yasodayai

om devahutyai

om devakyai

om rohinyai

omsitayai

om draupayai

omkuntyai

omrukminyai

om satyabhamayai

om jambavatyai

om nagnajitayai

om laksanayai

om kalindyai

om bhadrayai

om mitravindayai

Then, in a conch or earthen vessel five times with the following mantras, he should offer arghya to visnu five times, using the following mantras.

(Arghya consists of pancamrta, pancagavya, water, milk, haritaki, gandha, betels, flowers, candana, tumeric, kumkuma, durba grass, tulasi, amlaki,

scents and other auspicious items. It may be offered over the Lord's head or to his hand.)

om jagannatha mahabaho

sarvopadrava nasana

nava puspotsave me'rghyam

grhana jagadisvara

etat arghyam om sri visnave namah (or mula mantra)

om narayana hare rama

govinda garuda dhvaja

navapuspotsve me'rghyam

grhana paramesvara

etat arghyam om sri visnave namah (or mula mantra)

om dinabandho krpa sindho

paramananda madhava

navapuspotsave me'rghyam

grhana madhusudana

etat arghyam om sri visnave namah (or mula mantra)

om visvatman visvabandho

visvesa visvalocana

navapuspotsave me'rghyam grhana syamasundara

etat arghyam om sri visnave namah (or mula mantra)

om cidananda hrsikesa

bhaktavasya janardana

navapuspotsave me'rghyam

grhana kamalapate

etat arghyam om sri visnave namah (or mula mantra)

(Oh supreme Lord, at this festive occasion with fresh flowers please accept the arghya offered by me.)

The husband facing east , should situate himself behind his seated wife. With his right hand reaching over her right shoulder he should touch her

yoni saying:

om visnuh yonim kalpayatu

acyuto rupani pimsatu

asincatu harih garbham

jagadiso dadhatu te

May visnu prepare the yoni; may acyuta fashion the forms; may hari carry out the fertilization; may jagadisa present the child to you.

om garbham dhehi garbhosasayin garbham te naranarayanau

adhattam puskara srajau

Garbhodasayi visnu please bestow the child; nara narayana, bedecked with lotus garlands, please give her the child.

Touching her navel he should say:

om dirghayusam krsna bhaktam

putram janaya suvrate

Oh virtuous wife, bear a long-living son, a devotee of Krsna.

Then they should unite.

Bathing After the Act:

As one has to take bath after using the toilet, so one has to wash himself with water after sexual intercourse, especially when at a forbidden time.

SB 3.14.38, purport

As with every vedic ritual, gifts should be distributed at the conclusion of the ceremony.

PUMSAVANA (rite for making a male child):

Time:

In the case of a first pregnancy this rite should be performed during the third month of pregnancy, and may be performed later for other pregnancies,

when the signs of pregnancy begin to show. Manu says that it should be performed when the foetus beg ins to move in the womb. Some commentators say the rite should be performed on the first pregnancy only, and not during the following pregnancies.

It should be performed when the moon is in a male constellation.

Procedure:

The woman should fast, bathe and put on a new cloth.

The husband having performed his morning duties (bathe, putting on new cloth, sandhya vandana), the husband should worship visnu and perform vrddhi sraddha (see marriage preliminaries).

He should then set up a yajna, performing kusandika rites, calling the fire named candra, and ending with virupaksa japa.

He should seat his wife to his own right side on the west side of the fire upon a kusa asana. They should both face east. Silently he should place ghee-soaked wood of one pradesa length into the fire.

Vyasta samasta mahavyahrti homa:

om bhuh svaha

om bhuvah svaha

om svah svaha

om bhur bhuvah svah svaha

The husband, standing behind his wife, should touch her right shoulder, then her navel, repeating the following mantra three times:

om pumamsau mahavisnu vasudevau

pumamsau acyutanantau ubhau

puman govindas ca visnus ca

puman garbhabas tavodare

The Supreme Lord, the supreme male, mahavisnu, vasudeva, acyuta, ananta, govinda and visnu, and the male child reside in your womb. He should then perform vyasta samasta mahavyahrti hom:

om bhuh svah

om bhuvah svah

om svah svaha

om bhur bhuvah svah svaha

He should then throw ghee-soaked wood of pradesa length into the fire silently.

He should then perform udicya karma, vaisnava homa etc. and give daksina to vaisnavas.

According to some texts the juice from crushed banyan leaf sprouts should be poured into her right nostril to give her strength at this time.

During the time of pregnancy she should avoid having sex, sleeping in the daytime, staying awake at night, exerting herself physically, riding in vehicles, taking purgatives, experiencing all types of mental strain, and eating spicy, salty, sour, or heavy foods.

 

 

After reading all that I have come to the conclusion that I am going to remain celibate for the rest of my life just because all that stuff sounds like a real headache.

[bija]

After reading all that I have come to the conclusion that I am going to remain celibate for the rest of my life... ancient mariner

lol....dont blame me for your loneliness when you are older:)

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

I personally think anyone who has sex and does not beget children within 9 months should immediately be arrested. I kid, I kid. Like I always say, whatever floats your boat. I have come to the conclusion that gay marriage is gonna be a reality whether spiritual minded people like it or not so the best thing I can do is hope the best for people of all kinds of sexual orientations etc.

LOL Yea, I agree. Let's just wish the best for our gay brothers and sisters and let them be.

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

After reading all that I have come to the conclusion that I am going to remain celibate for the rest of my life just because all that stuff sounds like a real headache.

LOL... now you can be just like Mary...

[bija]

LOL... now you can be just like Mary... radhey radhey

I say let them be too Radhey. I have a good friend who is gay, he hides his gayness due to all the nonsense attitudes in this town. When I told him I know and I dont mind he was happy, and gave me a big hug, whiskers and all

 

I dislike homophobia. Maybe being gay might be a block to the Gaudiya goal (I dont know to be honest)...but so is a million other things like speaking poorly of devotees, pride, etc etc....why exclude gays from the rest of us fallen jivas I say!

[bija]

I see things on a scale in a simple way:

 

-5 -4 -3 -2 -1 0 +1 +2 +3 +4 +5 (femininity-masculinity)

 

In this material platform, just like the spiritual platform there is diversity. So on this scale we could be smack bang in the middle, 0 , or a -5, or a +2 and so on.

 

Growing up surrounded by lots of +5 males and attitudes I realized I was very different. So I was brave enough to look within and question my sexuality. I even lived near castro San Francsico in my back packing days to observe the culture, and realized I am straight male while living there talking to people and watching.

 

In the Gaudiya tradition many aspire for manjari bhava, and awaken to the imaginary body in sadhana, which eventually becomes the siddha deha of our true feminine form. This is considered the pure self.

 

So isnt it logical, in this so called perverted reflection world, that some may feel a certain femininity if they are male bodied. Due to the intrinsic nature of their true feminine identity that is latent or only intuitively known. So, could it be that this austere path we follow is in fact the great purifier, and brings the perverted reflection into its true identity if we follow its principles.

 

Even the call of brahmacarya may be necessary if we aspire for this reality of Vraj. And as the Bhagavatam says these madhurya pastimes and lilas can lead us home.

 

So Sankirtan is the way.....gradually but surely we will realize the path by this process. Even if we are gay. Everything in this world is a perverted reflection of the spiritual.

 

Dare I say we all got work to do;) lets go fellow residents of the perverted world! Lets go back home!

 

With all this austerity and talk of the falleness of sex one could develop neurosis, or give up the path and explore the sexuality....or embrace the essence, beauty, and esoteric truths of our tradition and relish the discovery of who we truly are. Viva la liberacion:)!

 

I feel most phobies and neurosis and hang ups are the lack of ability to integrate the depth of our human experience, either within ourselves or within the broader environment.

[bija]

 

BUENOS AIRES, May 1, 2008 - The eminent Spanish psychiatrist Enrique Rojas gave a speech yesterday in Buenos Aires declaring that homosexuality is "a clinical process that has an etiology, pathogeny, treatment, and cure".

 

 

Speaking at the Buenos Aires International Book Fair about his book "Goodbye, Depression", Rojas characterized homosexual orientation as a "disorder" rather than an illness, and stated his opinion that 95% of cases are caused by environmental factors, according to the Spanish news service Terra.

 

 

The disorder, according to Rojas, is the result of an absent father, overweening mother, or sexual abuse in childhood.

 

 

Rojas blasted the homosexual movement for promoting the development of homosexual tendencies in young people, and particularly condemned the practice of allowing homosexual couples to adopt children.

 

 

The child is deprived of a right to grow up "in a normal environment, heterosexual, which is the standard" he said. "Heterosexuality is what is normal, the natural condition of human beings."

 

 

According to studies from the United States, Canada, and New Zealand, there is a 70-80 percent chance that a child adopted by homosexuals will develop the same tendencies, Rojas said.

 

 

Rojas is the author of various books on psychology, including "Who Are You?", "The Light Man" and "Remedies for Coldness".

And that shrink Rojas is freudian psychology. Machismo tainted, catholico painted...and in my opinion not worth reading. A good dose of transpersonal psychology would be much more beneficial for us ones finding our way in this crazy world...Rojas would just make one more ill. And illness as a word is defunct anyhow!

 

Old Rojas is not a vaisnava, so why should we use his flawed views to justify anything.

[theist]

.

[theist]

Bija,

Homophobia? The word phobia denotes a mental disease of unnatural and exaggerated fear of something such as acrophobia being a fear of heights. Aren't you being judgmental towards those who don't care to be around a homosexual atrmopsphere by saying such people have a disease when really what they have is a prefence for the natural order?

 

I avoid homosexuals. Would you call me a homophobic?

 

Homophobia is a buzz word created by the homosexual activists who want to condition the society into accepting their abnormal lifestyle.

[theist]

 

In the Gaudiya tradition many aspire for manjari bhava, and awaken to the imaginary body in sadhana, which eventually becomes the siddha deha of our true feminine form. This is considered the pure self.

 

 

I object in the strongest possible terms the bringing up of manjari bhava as having any connection, no matter how remote,with homosexuality.

 

In the material world if you have the body of a man you should live out the role of a man. A female form then live out the role of a female. It's really quite straightforward. Confusion arises as Siddhasvarupa says.

 

Gender confusion is unfortunate but working hard to get the society at large to accept your confusion as natural not only cheats society but cheats yourself as well.

[theist]

If you look to religious texts as a guide then why are there no rites for homosexuals to get married?

[theist]

 

Old Rojas is not a vaisnava, so why should we use his flawed views to justify anything.

 

So then you accept what Srila Prabhupada says?

 

 

Lord Brahmä, approaching the Lord, addressed Him thus: My Lord, please protect me from these sinful demons, who were created by me under Your order. They are infuriated by an appetite for sex and have come to attack me.

PURPORT

It appears here that the homosexual appetite of males for each other is created in this episode of the creation of the demons by Brahmä. In other words, the homosexual appetite of a man for another man is demoniac and is not for any sane male in the ordinary course of life.

SB 3.20.26

[bija]

Theist I was not calling anyone here homophobiac, just speaking in general. And I do not see phobias as illness, just as I do not see the fallen jiva as illness but as simply conditioned. Illness in psychiatry is not a term I use, as an admirer of transpersonal psyhchology in the line of Carl Jung and Stanislov Grof. Grof termed the phrase 'spiritual emergence and spiritual emergence crisis'. Also my views on homosexuality would be vastly different than a gay activist, hope you can at least appreciate my honesty in this thread.

 

I am aspiring brahmacarya in life, so see un-regulated sex as illicit, but do not make distinction between homosexual and hetrosexual, as one form of unregulated sex as being purer than the other. I see all un-regulated sex as a great hindrance to self realization and sattva guna.

 

So in this sense I may not be following sastra so closely from others point of view, but more my conscience and realization.

 

If you feel I am cheating myself, then you are simply judging my samsakaras, and I am certain we all have many samskaras. At least if we are aware of the samskaras we are on the right track I feel. Now if you think I am cheating others I have no defence but to say each soul is intelligent here and can study scripture and develop their own realizations and take the journey, gradual journey back to Godhead.

 

In regards to the esoteric teachings of Gaudiya Vaisnavism this expression of what I have written is how I find my peace within, integrated and whole, while finding my way as a Hare Krsna aspiring for strict brahmacarya.

 

I am sure you can respect me trying to find that balance. And for sharing with you all a peace of my heart. Gaura Gaura!!

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

LOL... now you can be just like Mary... radhey radhey

 

I say let them be too Radhey. I have a good friend who is gay, he hides his gayness due to all the nonsense attitudes in this town. When I told him I know and I dont mind he was happy, and gave me a big hug, whiskers and all

 

I dislike homophobia. Maybe being gay might be a block to the Gaudiya goal (I dont know to be honest)...but so is a million other things like speaking poorly of devotees, pride, etc etc....why exclude gays from the rest of us fallen jivas I say!

That's sad At least he has a friend like you, though. We have the same kinds of prejudice here in the Mid-Western United States, too (where most people basically avoid everyone who's not a white, straight Protestant).

I agree. In fact, I think that pride (of one's sexual preference, perhaps?) is much more of a hinderence to Krishna consciousness than homosexuality.

[bija]

Well Radhey I am prepared to get flamed. But I know my place in this world and the path out of here. Thx.

[theist]

 

Theist I was not calling anyone here homophobiac, just speaking in general.

 

Really? At the least the insinuaton was there.

 

Perhaps you could then explain what you consider to be the nature of a homophobic.

 

 

I am aspiring brahmacarya in life, so see un-regulated sex as illicit, but do not make distinction between homosexual and hetrosexual, as one form of unregulated sex as being purer than the other. I see all un-regulated sex as a great hindrance to self realization and sattva guna.

 

There are activities that lead to spiritual life and there are activities that lead to deeper darkness. Gender roles are designed in nature for a reason. We accept that designer to ultimately be God even if done by His representative.

 

Homosex and heterosex are not the same. Yes it is all sense gratification but then so is eating salad and hamburgers. Both are sense gratification. Both even involve the killing of other living beings. However one is prescribed for human beings and the other is prohibited.

 

 

So in this sense I may not be following sastra so closely, but more my conscience.

 

Hmm... Ok but I don't see how ones conscience enters into it.

 

 

If you feel I am cheating myself, then you are simply judging my samsakaras, and I am certain we all have many samskaras. At least if we are aware of the samskaras we are on the right track i feel. Now if you think I am cheating others I have no defence but to say each soul is intelligent here and can study scripture and develop their own realizations and take the journey, gradual journey back to Godhead.

 

I didn't say YOU were cheating yourself. This is a general truth that if we have a problem to rise above and instead of risng above it we form a group consenous that the problem is not a problem and choose to live in that consenus bubble we never address it then we are cheating ourselves.

 

An example could be the dynamic behind someone taking the vow of a brahmana which includes being truthful and then feels he needn't be truthful and can cheat others out of money because he is a devotee is really cheating himself.

 

 

In regards to the esoteric teachings of Gaudiya Vaisnavism this expression of what I have written is how I find my peace within, integrated and whole, while finding my way as a Hare Krsna aspiring for stirct brahmacarya.

 

I am sure you can respect me trying to find that balance.

 

I respect the effort to find balqnce but disagree that comparing manjari bhava (which I doubt any of us here have a real clue as to what that is) and and urge towards homosexuality is anything but balanced.

 

Nothing wrong with having a soft heart towards others in their attempts to overcome their particular obstacles. In fact it is laudable and a Vaisnava trait as exemplified by His Divine Grace in so many ways. But one should not lose perspective on what is acceptable and what is not.

 

Srila Prabhupada spoke harshly against the idea of homosex marriage or unions call it what you will. He called the urge to homsex not fit for any sane man. Yet at the same time he had early disciples and at least one personal servant who was homosexual.

 

UNcompromising yet liberal and accepting. " Soft as a rose and hard as a thunderbolt."

[bija]

Thank you for your thoughtful response Theist, especially the last part of your post and presentation of Srila Prabhupada's teachings.

 

 

 

Really? At the least the insinuaton was there.

 

Perhaps you could then explain what you consider to be the nature of a homophobic. by Theist

 

Yes my reaction was to Rojas and his ideas being posted.

 

I wish not to discuss further on this topic, but briefly, I feel phobia is an internal angst and lack of integrating one's experience of the mind states and the environment. An aspect of this material world and its conditioning nature.

 

If we integrate into our environment by choosing to avoid certain people that is well and good isn't it. And seems to be supported by scripture. In town here my friends are schizophrenics, unemployed, alcholics...as I am also marginalized by my karma. So I normally speak out for the marginalized....now saying that the gay activist driving a 40,000 dollar car is not someone who I consider marginalized if you know what I mean.

 

Its funny though Theist, I guess we are all on the margin, tatastha shakti.

 

I will be ending my thoughts here. Ofcourse I would love to hear your views if you wish. Thx.

 

I have a friend coming around soon who needs a mate, we are going to bring out the guitars and if I am lucky sing some Krsna Naam. Jamin' Jamin' Jamin' in the name of the Lord! Nitaai Nitaai! Gaura!!

 

Oh and another mate who has schizophrenia and a money management problem is coming for maha prasadam pumpkin and rice tonight. Jaya Gauranga!

[RadheyRadhey108]

 

Well Radhey I am prepared to get flamed.

LOL

 

But I know my place in this world and the path out of here. Thx.

That's what self-realization is all about Jai Sri Radharani!

[bija]

Everything in the material plane that exists here is a 'perverted' reflection of a spiritual reality. Its the shadow, and I stress 'perverted'!

 

Comparing things in this world to the spiritual world is illogical. Just as it is illogical to compare perversion to transcendental purity. But a realized person will understand that everything spiritual is reflected in an extremely perverted and twisted way in this material world, by the lust (which is unlimited) of the fallen soul who is greedy for sense gratification replicating the Supreme Enjoyer by its false ego.

 

This sense gratification is unlimited in its scope, and the living entity out of his delusion grasps and desires to be God, creating unlimited shadows of what he can never be. Every twisted perversion that exists here is the most ghastly, horrifying, shadow of a divine reality.

 

Does homosex exist in Vraj. Ofcourse not, and I never suggested such a thing! What exists here is a perversion of a pure reality, a perversion of 'love beyond description of words'.

 

By the way Theist I do not have homosex urges as you seem to suggest. Many years ago in my development as a young adult I looked at why I was sensitive, deeply, and questioned such things. I have no lust for man. I am brahmacari who regulates contact with woman. I have been asked to take residence in Puri as a monk, so am looking deeply within to see if I am ready for a lifetime vow of celibacy, or looking within to see if I desire to take a wife and spread krsna consciousness that way. This has been my soul search since last November when I was asked to consider oneday taking residence in the Dhaam. Big decision, big journey looking within myself, and almost breaking at times lately.

 

Any unregulated sex is not prescribed for the living entity. Only very regulated sex activity for creation of Krsna conscious children is recommended. That regulated act is the most compassionate manifestation because a pure devotee child is a great boon for this world. And bringing a child into this world from our lusty activity is not compassionate.

 

So therefore straight and homo-sex are both condemned as a huge block to spiritual growth. The acaryas have stressed this clearly and frankly as you know Theist.

 

I aspire for manjari bhava, and aspire internally as such. This is the meaning of Tulasi Kirtan song sung every morning to Tulasi Devi, the bestower of that gift. And I am far from that goal therefore am taking full shelter in Jaap and Kirtan of Nitaai-Gaura Hare Krsna Naam. The last weeks my jaap has lessened due to very poor health, but up until this I have been chanting 70,000 names of God minimum per day. Six hours focused jaap each day. Infact that is the only hope to clear these mountains of unwanted sins from my heart. Before I chant the Hare Krsna Mahamantra I chant 2 and half hours of Nitaai-Gaura Naam. When finished that then 32 rounds of Mahamantra. Then when completed if I am not to tired at night I continue jaap of Nitaai-Gaura Naam. Please forgive me for sharing my Jaap, but please hear me....I have experienced so much personal suffering in this ghastly world that I do not wish to come back, and I take my masters instructions that this ghastly world is no home for a gentleman very seriously.

 

Externally I aspire for identification as an associate of Sri Rupa Goswami. When I chant jaap I meditate that the environment around me is Vrindavan, that the birds are spiritual, and that all people nearby are serving Krsna. This is my bhajan aspiration, even if imperfect, and cultivated in an imaginary body and mind. Daily scripture reading feeds the daily jaap and meditation (even though imperfect), in this way pleasing to the Soul.

 

I meditate outside on warm days and identify my body as a sadhaka, I have noticed a beautiful world, where even birds come and sit nearby at peace. And the world seems to glow with beauty in such glimpse moments.

 

From personal experience un-regulated sex activity clouds the mind, 'increases all material desires', makes rememberance of Krsna most difficult, and degrades the mind!

 

Each persons unique realizations in life are a gift from God! Who knows wisely what we need to progress. After lifetime after lifetime samskaras have been formed. By some good fortune very regular chanting of the holy names of Nityananda! Gauranga! and Hare Krsna! cleanses the dust, we begin to see what the material mind has cultured, and by 'causeless mercy of Bhakti Devi' unwanted things (anarthas) begin to fall away. Infact Nitaai-Gaura Naam manifests bliss even when we are full of offences, to inspire us....by Their (Nitaai-Gauranga's) causeless mercy! Even clearing the perverted samskaras of this fallen soul (Bija).

 

For the devotee who is fixed in determination, a falldown is quickly remedied by the Lord's kindness. Infact according to Srimad Bhagavatam and Srila Prabhupada such falldowns are not sin but 'special mercy' to begin the final clearing of unwanted remants and impressions, from lifetimes of sense gratification.

 

I stress again....everything in this material world is a gross, ghastly, horrific, deathly, 'perversion' of a spiritual reality. And any person who compares perversion with spiritual purity is incorrect. But once the jiva knows by grace of sadhu and scripture the truths of the spiritual reality, he can then see the perversions for what they are.

 

Please forgive me from bringing the exquisite service of Radha into such a ghastly thread. That is my foolishness.

 

Aspring residence in Vraj by mercy. Fallen.

[Amlesh]

 

But once the jiva knows by grace of sadhu and scripture the truths of the spiritual reality, he can then see the perversions for what they are.

 

Perfectly said.... and after getting the grace of sadhu and scripture and realising that ones only aim should be devotional service, one will see that he is trancendental to vice and virtue.

 

 

Please forgive me from bringing the exquisite service of Radha into such a ghastly thread. That is my foolishness.

 

Aspring residence in Vraj by mercy. Fallen.

 

Proof of a humble soul.

[bija]

"Perfectly said.... and after getting the grace of sadhu and scripture and realising that the ones only aim should be devotional service, one will become trancendental to vice and virtue". quote amlesh

Yes Amlesh this is correct, vice and virtue becomes less prominent in our conversation and perceptions. And our activities are hopefully acted in a way that others may follow. As I said we will fall occasionally, Krsna will lift us again, and cleanse us by giving us wisdom about our falldown.

 

I asked Gurudeva some months ago 'what happens if I have fallen from brahmacarya?'. He said 'get back up and start again.'

 

Infact regulated householder life is also pure brahmacarya. And if a man can be graced with a chaste devotional wife, he is greatly blessed. She surely must be the greatest of teachers.

[Amlesh]

 

Yes Amlesh this is correct, vice and virtue becomes less prominent in our conversation and perceptions.

 

 

True... the perception of vice and virtue occurs when we still have not accepted Krishna as our master. It's quite easy to understand, if our master who is perfect, orders us to do something, from where the perception of vice and virtue arises?

 

It's only when we are master and slave of our own self that we are bound to commit sin or do some good action... and remember we are also bound to transcend Sat Guna to be perfect.

[bija]

 

Proof of a humble soul. bija quoted by amlesh

It was an error of judgement on my behalf making such comparisons on a public forum, considering the sacredness. Even if I hold some realizations like this in my heart.

 

Theist was quite in order pulling me up. I like that about him and respect it. Theist can spot ego a mile away;)

[theist]

When speaking of urges bija I wasn't meaning you personally. I simply do not accept manjari bhava as being reflected (perverted or otherwise) as homosexuality. I do see how thinking oneself prematurely on that level of sadhana while still identifying with the body can lead to a form of homosexuality. One confuses their roles on earth dictated by their body. This in line with Siddhasvarupa's talk on gender confusion.

 

And you mentioned the need to be selective in one's association. This is the whole point in a nut shell. Everyone should be welcome at the kirtana and class etc. But that is a time and place when the homosexuality, drug addiction, racism ,sexism etc. should be left behind. Not that the kirtana or spiritual society needs to change to accomodate me and my hang-up but rather I need to change to enter fully into the spiritual aociety.

 

The idea is that homosexuals need to restrict their behavior when at the temple just as all non-Krishna conscious actions must be restricted. IOW's don't flaunt it and then start demanding that your (general sense of the word) hang up be recognized and accepted by everyone else. Random mentioned the organization GALVA. This is their whole idea (if they are even still around) they lobby to get homosex marriage approved in Iskcon and thus destroy the peaceful atmosphere for everyone else. Extremely selfish.